Christian Solorzano [00:00]

Hello, you are listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and on today's episode I speak with Chris Mora, co-founder of Bueno Days, a coffee shop and community space located in Chicago's Little Village neighborhood.

And on today's episode, we get an opportunity to hear about his upbringing, his introduction to photography, and how that evolved into a passion for graphic design, visual communication, community organizing, and so many more things that he's putting all together through his projects that he's doing right now with Bueno Days and also his professional work as well.

We talk about the importance of community spaces as ways of connecting with people, as ways of creating opportunities for other people to participate, For collaborations, idea exchanges, and so much more. The Chicago Graphic Design Club recently went to Bueno Days for a social hour a few weeks ago, and it's a beautiful space. If you're in the city, I would definitely encourage you to visit.

So this is a great conversation to talk so much about being Mexican-American, being born and raised in Chicago, and all of the inspiration that one is able to draw from the city. As usual, if you if you enjoy conversations like this, if you enjoy the show, we would really appreciate that you leave us a rating wherever you listen and that you share. It really helps us reach a bigger audience.

It helps us increase the impact of these kind of conversations, which also— which ultimately enrich our community. So thank you so much. Enjoy the conversation, and we'll talk to you soon.

Cristobal Mora [01:57]

Good.

Christian Solorzano [01:58]

Morning, Chris. How's it going?

Cristobal Mora [02:00]

Good morning. I'm doing great.

Christian Solorzano [02:02]

So we, I finally had the pleasure of checking out Bueno Days last weekend after hearing so much about it. And I don't know why it took me so long to visit. I think it's because for a while, like the hours were a little bit difficult for me to like work around, but beautiful space. Just congratulations on the space and everything that you guys are doing for the community. So I'm really—

Cristobal Mora [02:28]

I appreciate it. Yeah. The hours were always, when something's your side project, hours are always gonna be kind of like what you can give. And for a long time it was just month to month, but then we got into this flow state of every weekend. And yeah, that was, that was, that was a really nice time actually. It was, it was a busy time, but I think there was a whole different vibe. And now that we're open 7 days. Even different?

So it's like a whole nother— it feels like a whole nother space.

Christian Solorzano [02:56]

Yeah. So I want to talk about Bueno Days, but first I want to talk about you. And your background is in graphic design. And looking through your Instagram, I saw that you're also a photographer. Like photography and storytelling, like visual storytelling play both a big role in kind of how you see the world. So I would love to hear about what was your introduction into design, into visual storytelling, photography, and so forth? What was your childhood like?

Cristobal Mora [03:26]

Wow. So photography was my first, my first love, my first, I think craft that I took seriously. It really started with a point-and-shoot. This is 2006, and, it's like high school, and I'm hanging out with friends, and all the girls carried like a little snap, like point-and-shoot, Coolpix camera.

And they'd always be taking these photos and I'm like, let me see that camera. I have, I have this shot of like the Sears Tower or of Lake Michigan. And I just loved doing those sort of things, which was a gateway into, hey, let's do some portraiture. Let's, let's— the whole excuse now is let's meet up and take photos.

So throughout high school and into college, I little by little got more serious into photography. My uncle's actually a newspaper photographer. He did that for many years. He was a mechanic and he like literally cut part of his thumb off and he like couldn't go back to like his trade and ended up getting a job at a spot called Monogram, which was like, they would take photos of these like model cars.

But for him, the same thing. It was like he just kind of like was in the, in the little area of, oh, this is a job where this is just like some people with a cool camera. And he took it very seriously. He became like the newspaper sports photographer for Hoy Magazine. So when I started getting into photography, I immediately was like, let me borrow your camera. Let me borrow that big camera.

It just, it was like candy. And yeah, ultimately that work, that body of work that I did was really about documenting like my friendships and the South Side and what later turned into a magazine during college where I partnered up with like a DJ group. And the idea was just let's just interview people that we want to meet. It's, this, social media is a thing, but more so it's nothing really beats what we're doing right now, actually. It's just a conversation, just like meeting up.

And so photography always facilitated, honestly, just like an interesting way to spend my time and a way to meet people that I admired. Like my, actually my intro into design was because of that, because I was interviewing these creative directors for my magazine. It's, oh, hey, I have this Had this magazine, wanna interview. Really, I just wanted like a job interview and I wanted to have an excuse to tell 'em about myself and what I wanted to do.

So kind of like, kind of bouncing around there from a timeline perspective. But yeah, like all of high school was just like literally using this point-and-shoot. And I look back at those photos and wow, they were actually like, the technology is actually really great. It would be like a 2.5 megapixel camera, but yeah, I think it holds up to what people are shooting right now.

Then later turned into a more serious, hey, I want to document, all the, Latin American bands, specifically bands that are, Mexican American. This was, after 2010, after I graduated high school. So funny story, I ended up, shooting for this band that their drummer just, never showed up. So I never got, a band photo. And so I kept going to the practices hoping to get a band photo, and we ended up just— there's maybe 4 practices in, and he hadn't showed up.

He just always was on some other planet, basically. And they're like, hey, do you want to just sit on the drums? Do you want to just play the drums? And I ended up joining the band like within that year as a drummer because we just all got along so well. So photography has always been the— yeah, that, I don't know, that thing that feels like an extension of myself. And I'm just a very— I just love people, you know what I mean?

And I think putting a camera in front of people always worked it worked for me and people seem to like really love a photo, right? Like a memory. And I guess I would also add that I think everybody's a photographer. It's just like your perspective of what you're documenting or what you think you are. 'Cause at this point everybody has like a camera on their phone.

And I've always had this idea that what if we had this photo club that like encouraged like all sorts of like literally photographers. It doesn't matter what kind of camera you have. You are a photographer, you are an artist, you are whatever you want to be just because you say you are. And for that to be kind of like a stepping stone for like these, I think, younger people who they have a really cool VSCO, account or whatever.

And, maybe they don't realize that it's important to have a perspective. And I admire people who have a perspective and want to chat through it or share ideas. So that's something that I will love to do in the future. Do a little photo club at the shop, actually. Once we have a little bit more time.

Christian Solorzano [07:58]

Yeah, I love that. I do. I do definitely agree that photography is a way of just seeing the world. I know sometimes when I'm really into my photography mindset, even if I don't have my camera, like I'm looking like my eye is just naturally trying to pick up compositions. And it's just, it's so great. I love it.

Cristobal Mora [08:18]

Have you seen those Instagram reels where it's like this guy, I think he's, I think he's from Australia and he has 2 perspectives. He has like his phone camera where you just kind of see like wide angle, just him walking like in a city center. And then he'll have that little like yellow square that's all on all our iPhones. That's like the focus ring. Yeah. But he'd be like, this is what I saw.

And the next, the next shot or whatever would be like what he actually took on his, on his camera. And it was, it's always like mind-blowing. It's always, and that's how I've always felt with the photographers that I've loved is that we're like in the same exact space. We're in the same city.

Or whatever, right? Like we, we're walking the same place and for some reason there's such an ability that people have with their, with their perception. I don't know. It's just, it's just crazy. So this real I think now people are starting to catch on. People are doing it more often and I, and I love it. I love seeing how people just will frame things or people get super abstract. I know people love, that blur, the bokeh blur. And I think I'm over that.

I used to love that back in the day. I just wanted like a 1.2 aperture lens so I can get this crazy blur. And now I'm only shooting either on my Fuji X100F or my iPhone. And it's just, I don't even care anymore. Now it's really like what you said, just composition. It's, I'm going to snap this photo.

Not going to think about it. I usually shoot from the hip now. And even portraiture is like that. I don't like spending too much time. I used to love the lighting and kind of all that. And I think I know it now, so it's in the back of my head. I'm sure it comes up when I want to use it, but I don't actively go for that anymore. I love the simplicity of just a rangefinder.

Christian Solorzano [09:58]

Yeah, I agree. So, and Chicago is such a great city with so much stuff all around us. At any given point for us to shoot. So on the topic of Chicago, what's your relationship to Chicago? I know, you've been here for— I mean, were you born in Chicago?

Cristobal Mora [10:16]

Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [10:17]

Okay. So what about Chicago inspires you? And more specifically, Bueno Days is in Little Village. And I know that that's like whenever I hear someone speak about Bueno Days, like they mentioned that it's in Little Village and it's such a to me, it's such a beautiful location. And being that you're Mexican-American like myself, it's always really nice to see another Mexican-American graphic designer that I think you and I are both the same age.

So can you maybe share some insight as to like your Mexican background and how that's kind of shaped your work and how you view the city and most importantly how that influences Buenos días.

Cristobal Mora [11:01]

Absolutely. Yeah, born and raised in Chicago. South Side has been where I've resided since, yeah, since I was born. A lot of, a lot of the beautiful things I think about our city are like scattered. And, as a South Sider, I think I spent a lot of time leaving the South Side because maybe this interesting restaurant was, up north, or like coffee.

It's just, there's just so much, there were just so many reasons to leave the South Side and I think at one point, it was actually my wife and I literally in high school, we were like, why are there not these things in our neighborhoods? What's really the issue here? And, I think that that's still like the question that we ask ourselves. But as a young person, we took it upon ourselves to be like tourists in our own city.

We would literally take the CTA and meet up. We had a thing every Thursday just because we had all this other Activities in high school. So Thursdays were the day that like we didn't, we didn't go to you know boxing or chess club or whatever, and we would just meet up downtown. We'd walk around downtown.

We'd be like, "Hey, you want to just take a bus like up north or go back south or go west?" And we would just find something to do, and it was just an excuse to walk around. We didn't have any money. It was always gonna be window shopping. But I think that was like a core like that memory and that experience is like a. Core piece of like why Bueno Days exists now. Take the identity of South Sider, blue collar, right?

I feel like underdog mentality, pair it with you just love new things and you appreciate like the excitement that, the world— I feel like the world is just always changing. And then you wanting to see it in your own neighborhood. You just don't want to take the commute? Yeah. I think that's why Bueno Days exists. We're serving maybe a younger version of ourselves.

Christian Solorzano [12:46]

Yeah, I love that. And even when you were mentioning about you in high school or you at a young age having your own magazine and sort of interviewing people or just seeking those opportunities, do you feel like that came from a working-class mentality? Because I feel like Mexican people sometimes we have that in us where we just get the job done. Regardless, there's no question about it.

Cristobal Mora [13:17]

Yeah, we have that spirit, right? I mean, we grew up only knowing, hard work is to be admired, right? Anything good happens with hard work. And I still feel that way now. I think maybe at some point someone was like, oh, work hard. No, work smarter, not harder. Those sort of things.

And then at the end of the day, I think our culture, like the Mexican-American culture, I would say, is just, there's so many levels to it. It's not a monolith. It doesn't exist as the same thing in California, the same thing in, New York. It's even not the same thing even in Chicago, right? If you're, suburb Chicago, if you're South Side Chicago, you're North, it's just so different.

So I think it's a very, it's a very big topic, and we've been exploring it quite a lot with our project that now I realize it more than ever that it's just like you being— you existing and you doing what you want to do is enough, right? You are Mexican American, you have a graphic design background, you're facilitating, the Underscore, podcast and magazine. That in itself becomes Mexican American culture now.

It's so— it's just so interesting how we probably want to see a papel picado or like a piñata or like this, iconic thing that is Mexican American. And these things are still moving, right?

Christian Solorzano [14:41]

Yeah.

Cristobal Mora [14:41]

I think maybe like in LA we have, things that, are like cholo culture and those sort of like, lowrider, like that. Those things do emanate even out here with like Slow and Low Fast and, the lowrider shows and stuff like that. But I think it's more, I really do think it's more. And ultimately I think what we're dealing with is an identity crisis. I think being from multiple places or just like identifying with multiple things it's like this plural identity. Like we call it duality.

'Cause for us it's just like these 2 really strong ones. And being Mexican American has always been this like jump-off point to informing what we're gonna do. And I think maybe it's been recently that we're like, we just, we are Mexican American, but we do whatever we want now. Like we— We're not almost even limited by it has to look a certain way.

And that's actually why the design system of Bueno Days looks the way it does is because actually like trying to avoid these cultural tropes that people want, maybe they want to expect to see. And it's for good reason. I think we, as humans, we like to feel safe and we like to feel like we understand what's going on. I think Mexican American culture, from my perspective now, is not that anymore.

It's— there's nostalgic moments, there's these memories that we probably all share, but it's not a monolith yet. I'll take one of, our creations that Alma— I mean, she does so many of them, but I'll just point out this one because it's one of probably the most like latest trending one. She created a drink, a beverage called Con Flakes, which is like cornflakes. It's the way that, we grew up saying it.

And it's the— it's like the non, frosted one. So there's no sugar in it. And, like our parents taught us to eat it with banana. Like you'd cut the banana up with your spoon and put it in your cornflakes. And so many people have that memory. And that's why that drink was powerful, right? The last thing it was, it was a coffee.

Christian Solorzano [16:36]

Last thing it was a latte. Yeah.

Cristobal Mora [16:39]

It's an expression of this memory that we probably all share, that many of us share. And for, yeah, for, I guess for us, that's probably the most exciting moment for Bueno. It's not the visual identity system. It's not that like we source Mexican coffee like exclusively, or we do, I don't know, we like do these spaces that we exist in Little Village and we like remind you that it's okay to be like this like beautiful duality. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [17:08]

Yeah. And do you ever feel, I know sometimes I struggle with feeling like I'm neither Mexican enough or I'm not American enough and I'm like in between. And when I go to Mexico, I feel like sometimes out of place in certain areas. And then when I'm here, I feel also kind of out of place. Is that something that you find yourself struggling with?

Cristobal Mora [17:29]

Not at all. Not at all. I'm just kidding. It's literally, no, I'm totally joking. It's literally the opposite. It's literally that moment in Selena where that, the father's in the car and he's telling Selena, you have to be more American than Americans, you gotta be more Mexican than the Mexicans, and it's exhausting.

And that's why I say it that way. It's just, it's just funny because of course I think we all at some point probably feel that way. And either you pick a side, right, and you throw away part of who you are, or you kind of exist in this like uncomfortable place where you go to Mexico and yeah, you have to kind of accept that you're a gringo.

That you're this gabacho who doesn't speak Spanish, right? That it's so obvious because you walk too fast down the street and nobody walks that fast down the street. That, there's cuts of meat that you don't understand and you don't know what you're ordering. These sort of things are just like part of our now new Mexican-American culture.

Unapologetically. So I definitely feel that. And being a person from the South Side of Chicago, also like learning Spanish first and then literally forgetting it because my parents decided to stop speaking Spanish, having to relearn it, and it's now like this really broken Spanish. It's— you can either be embarrassed or you can just be like, yeah, that's just that, that's how it went, that's how it is.

And still create, just move forward, move forward with your life. With my daughter now being born, it's like an important thing for us to expose her to both her cultures. And so we're only speaking to her in Spanish right now, but it's only working because like our or my, I should say my Spanish is like good enough for a child. But, as soon as she gets a little older, she's probably gonna, she's gonna probably, overtake me on how technical she could be, hopefully.

Christian Solorzano [19:08]

So talk to us a little bit about your— so you went to UIC for graphic design. So photography came first. That's what ignited your love for visual storytelling. And then you decide to go into graphic design. What was that like? And do you find that existing again, like this duality between— well, I would think it's a duality existing between a personal project or something like Bueno Days, but then also working with clients and like in a more corporate setting.

Do you find that you also have to switch back and forth between these 2 different environments, or do you kind of see them all as the same?

Cristobal Mora [19:51]

This is a great question. I think you asked 2 questions. So the first one, it's like going to school as— going to UIC for graphic design. I actually didn't go to school for graphic design.

I was terrified of what my parents would think if I went to art school. So I didn't. I actually learned everything I know on YouTube. And while I was at UIC, I was miserable. Because I was studying communications, which for me I thought was a smart move because I can use this degree for everything. That's just kind of how it was marketed to me.

So like in that, in that vein, there's actually some, I think, some interesting— and I, I've heard it from other people, this like fear of like maybe doing something like art school because how are you gonna get a job?

Christian Solorzano [20:40]

Yeah.

Cristobal Mora [20:41]

Right? Like that was very real for me. So I didn't, I didn't. I went, I went to college mostly to check the box because I felt like I was supposed to. I was told that you should go to, you should go to college.

And if you don't, you're a failure. So I did that. It took me like 5 and a half years to finish college. I just was, again, not spending my time where I wanted to. And I lived for after class. I lived for the weekends. I lived for going to work. I did not, I did not enjoy that experience.

And so what I ended up doing was taking on all these side projects, and I built my portfolio on the things that I loved, which is like making connections with people. So that's why the magazine existed actually, was I wanted to have a portfolio because I knew I needed that. And the only reason why I knew I needed a portfolio is because I was going to all these events.

Like at that point it was just I think, the Annex, like the Havas Annex was a really big thing. They were throwing parties and, just meeting people, asking them how they got where they were at, I started making a checklist of like what I, what I needed to do. I'm like, damn, I need a campaign. I need a visual identity. I need like a brand that people notice. I need all these things. And so I'm like, how am I gonna get all this?

There's no, there's no classroom where I can ask a teacher to put me in contact with someone that I admire. I have to, I have to be the one to go and figure this out myself.

And it was, it was partnering up with actually the DJ group at the time. That it was perfect. So we both wanted kind of a similar effect, like we wanted to meet people that would eventually give us a job. And yeah, so it would be— we met at UIC, so I'm still really happy that I went to UIC, but we met there because of UIC Radio. So I joined UIC Radio as a co-host of my friend, my DJ friend's radio show.

Afterwards, we just would honestly just talk like loads about the creative community, the music community. At that time, I was photographing a lot of bands. I actually ended up becoming part of a band and doing a whole bunch of stuff, the Mexican-American, identity stuff there too. But ultimately, that, brand identity for the band and for the magazine and all the events we threw— we were actually better at throwing events than we were at, publishing, blogs.

So we would do event identities with other friends and all of that whole experience after class was everything for me.

It was not the, it was not a straight path at all. Speaking of this duality, like at that time I was living like kind of 2 lives. It was like, all right, the one I'm supposed to do where I'm not gonna worry about what people think about me, like my parents, family, people can say, no, he's in college, he's good. He's, he got a job, he's fine. I'm checking these boxes. But all at the same time, I'm like fulfilling like a deeper—

Honestly, a deeper purpose or, just this necessity. There's just like this gap in my existence. It felt that strongly, right? Yeah, you're like this angsty, college kid just wanting to just be somebody. And that's what it was. It was literally just, who do I wanna be? And Hypebeast and, there's this blog called Found and All these events. That was my world at the time. I needed both until honestly the moment that I didn't. And then I'm like, you know what?

I learned it's actually dope to mix it all up and be yourself. Don't— it's cliché, right? But you really need to be authentically you. The only, the only strength you have is like your actual strengths, not the ones that you kind of curate.

For people to think. My strength has always been in this, like having conversations and meeting people and like getting really excited about ideas and thinking, like thinking wide, like casting a wide net and then, refining it down. And I care about people, so I always cared about people's problems. And when, as soon as I realized that I can like solve people's problems with creativity, I was hooked. I was like, I have to figure this out. And it took me a while. It took me a while.

Christian Solorzano [24:44]

And did you learn this from someone or like where did this come from? Curious.

Cristobal Mora [24:51]

I think I learned from looking, from watching. In— I'm not fully sure to be honest with you. I think the earliest memory was— man, I don't even want to go too early but Something that would be relevant to most people was like, I was an intern, and this is after I worked in coffee for a little bit and figured out how to get, my portfolio to the right person.

I got the internship, and then I saw that I wasn't wrong, that everybody in that, in that world of advertising and marketing and creativity and studio, they lived a life, like a full life full of side projects, and they don't have to call it that. It was just like the thing that they have to do, the thing that they want to do. I was really fortunate to get this internship at a spot called MKTG.

Creative director at the time, he Chuck Anderson, and then my design mentor, Raul. Between that group of people, we worked with so many people that, like Kevin Kowal, who was a poet, right? Like these other designers who were like typesetting for us. Doing really cool stuff for Nike. And again, the world that these people existed in wasn't just, oh, they— that was their role. You didn't, you didn't fully describe them by just saying what their title was on the project.

There was so much more than that. And so again, yeah, being an intern, seeing all, seeing all happen, I like doubled down on myself. I would make pour-overs for everybody because again, I was fresh out of coffee barista-like mode working at like a cafe down the block from the agency. And then I'm now an intern, working on Nike and Gatorade. And what I did every morning was I, I'd literally show up, I'd be the first one there, and I'd start making pour-overs for myself.

And anybody who came in, I just felt awkward that they didn't have a coffee and I did. So I'd split my pour-over. And then we ended up chatting at the kitchen, and that became my, way to honestly pick people's brains.

And learn even more. So Again, me being myself turned into the best thing ever because I pretty much just made coffee for everybody. Not the intern way, not the go get me coffee way. More so, I was a designer from 9 to 5, but I was there so early that I'm making people coffee and I'm getting to talk to them as a human and not as like my manager or this other thing.

It really, yeah, honestly, that's what I recommend most young people to do is figure out the thing that's just like Bully you. Yeah, that's a that's a pretty big thing to ask. But for instance, borrow mine. Don't get somebody coffee. Make somebody coffee. Find an excuse to share something like a pour over, which is what I did.

Yeah, and you end up chatting with the most important person in the room because at that time people started like requesting, and they were like, "Hey, you haven't you haven't made me a pour over. Everyone got a pour over. I've been waiting for a month. What do I got to do?" Yeah, like. Say less. Let's just, let's just have a, let's have a little coffee chat.

Christian Solorzano [27:52]

I love that. And on that topic, what would be your advice for just younger designers? I think right now, from my perspective and from the perspective of some of my students, there's a lot of uncertainty about our industry and jobs and AI and like just this tech revolution that's happening right before our eyes. And it's tough. And sometimes I don't know what to say because it's— the reality is that it's like really challenging. Just things are rough.

So what would your— what would your words of wisdom be for someone that maybe is on this path into design, into getting into design? So that's question number one. And then question number 2 is for someone that's already in those positions of leadership, what can they do to kind of, to your point, to kind of nurture and to help make our community or design industry a little bit more inclusive and more, yeah, just more accepting of like younger people?

Cristobal Mora [29:02]

Yeah, no, these are, these are really great questions and I hope I get it right or just like to make it really simple, and I'll make it as simple as I possibly can, design is everywhere.

And so it's a worthy pursuit to understand how to design something beautiful and effective and worth something to somebody. We live in a country that is full of brands and full of companies that like honestly need our perspective and need our skill. I like telling people that like, we're like carpenters. Yeah. That's the thing I can compare it to. We, our trade is in pixels and lines and creating things that can like literally transport and, go viral.

Now, I'm not saying that because that's, this cool thing. I, I'm saying like, you could take it very seriously and this could be a craft that you can dedicate your entire life to. When I was younger, I didn't, I didn't really realize that. But this one movie called Objectified opened up my eyes. And so I really recommend people watching this movie. It basically tells a story of Eames and Dieter Rams and like Milton Glaser that like these people are designers.

And to really hone in on like your perspective and to try everything. I think I was in an Uber once and the Uber driver was talking about his son and he was like, oh, he should be a police officer. And I was like, oh, how old is he? Oh, he's just graduating high school. I'm like, there's no way, he should be a police officer. He needs to try everything.

And I was on my way to meet up my wife and my, and my daughter and a bunch of friends. And it was at a, like this, like chefy type of event, right? Like a food culture event. I couldn't tell you that I was gonna be 33 years old with the type of, the friend group I have, that is in this industry. I would've never known I would land here. So there's no way that you can tell somebody that they should be something in the future.

They need to do it for themselves and they need to try everything in the process. Yeah. That's kind of the whole point. The whole point is that you try things. It would be so boring if things are already figured out for you. So that's kind of 2 points that I feel really strongly about. Definitely see the world the way it is. Design is everywhere. It's a worthy cause. It's a worthy pursuit for you to go for it and inform your decisions by trying everything.

Don't think that like getting a cushy job that like pays a certain amount is all of it. There's rewards in the rewards that are beyond money. And I think the best things in life are truly free. So that answers that one question. I think the second one, what was it? It was—

Christian Solorzano [31:50]

Well, I want to add something. I want to comment on the first part, because from hearing you speak, it seems like you, a lot of your success and opportunities have come from you kind of not waiting for permission. And you just giving yourself the permission to just go do those things. And I think often what I see is, especially younger people, they'll kind of wait for someone to knock on their door and to say, you can do this.

And I think, obviously technology nowadays, it allows us to do anything. We can make— we can take photos with our phone, or we can do whatever the case may be. I think we live in a time where we're capable of doing pretty much just about anything. So, yeah. And your response reminded me of that is just don't wait for someone to tell you to do something like just go figure it out for yourself and go learn on YouTube if you have to.

Cristobal Mora [32:49]

Patience is a virtue. But so is just going for it. You could find your own answers out there. I think, and I think anybody's perspective can be informed by something. Like to your point, you can literally go out and do anything and you can literally go out and convince yourself of anything. There's really no wrong answer.

And yeah, I don't think I ever asked for permission or waited for permission because the people who I would be waiting for permission, I look, I look at them now and I think they kind of— this is going to sound so mean, I feel bad saying it, but I think they stalled.

I think those are the people who like stopped pursuing their you know their purpose, or they stop pursuing like with the things that made them happy. Because a lot of the people that I was surrounded by, like in I grew up like in the CPS world, and not to say all the teachers are this way. No, my mom's a teacher, a CPS teacher. So there's so many beautiful like teachers out there.

But man, there's also a lot of teachers who I think are they're just not happy, and I wonder what they actually wanted to do because they're telling these kids what to do, and they didn't. Pursue themselves for themselves. And that's like heartbreaking for me because it's, I think it's just like missing the point. Yeah, you said, you said a few other things. What was the second question though? I wanted to answer that second question.

Christian Solorzano [34:08]

So the second question was for people that are in the positions of leadership, like people that have, the power, what do you, what would be your call to action for them?

Cristobal Mora [34:18]

Yeah. Opportunity. Give opportunity. It's a hard, it's a hard one to, I think, to wrap my head around because I think it could be more, maybe there could be like a more like tactical solution. Oh, provide internships to like underprivileged, but that's been around forever. That's not, that's not the only way to do it. I think opportunities look very different now. Opportunities sometimes present themselves as just showing up and existing publicly.

I think all the people that, again, the people that I look up to, they— the reason why they've had the effect on me is because they went out and did a podcast, or they went out and did a show. They were available at an event like I could brush shoulders with.

So third spaces, they're everywhere. They're not just cafes, they're not just libraries, they're not just bars. Literally, it's the streets. And I think right now we really do need events. Events are so important. And having an open invitation for like-minded people would be a good, maybe like smart goal for our leaders out there.

But ultimately, it's just give people the opportunity. People will show up and rise to the occasion. The ones who don't, they don't? And that's part of their story. I don't, I'm not in a position of leadership. In my career at the moment. I'm very much the— I spend so much time on my company, and I think that's maybe me trying to be smart about it, is that I take the work that I do at Bueno as like my life's work. It's really important.

And I blend it with the work that I do at, in advertising and in marketing, but it just— they're not one-to-one, right? Where— when I'm in my 9-to-5 Like, I think we're solving problems for people with like deep pockets. But what I'm more interested in is not only solving problems, but just exploring them. I think I enjoy just talking ideas than I do like actually seeing the idea come to life.

And that's just my truth and maybe even a flaw because it's, I think it's one of those things that, with owning a business, it's very important to execute. Yeah. But giving, I gave myself an opportunity to just roam free and do my own thing with my own project. So that might be another thing. Maybe don't wait for your leaders to like provide opportunities. It's not the only way to go about it.

Actually, at the last, the last meetup, the design meetup, it was, it was really cool talking to these kids who just graduated because they were talking about how they just submitted their applications for jobs and stuff like that. I'm like, that's so exciting. And I'm like, how many did you Applied for it? He said, oh, just like 1 or 2. And I was just considering it. I can either be like, wow, that's really great. But I also felt like there's no time to lose.

You need to do more. You need to, you need to apply. It's a numbers game when you're going through these systems of like human resources or recruiters receiving this stuff. Yeah, we're all people, but it's, it's gone down to binary at that point. They're putting your resume through a system that like will say, oh, this person is a good candidate, let's follow up on them.

Or yeah, there's not that many applications. Let's give this guy an interview. Let's see what he's about. I think it is so much more important to go out and send your resume, craft it to as many people that are worthy of your time and you think you can help. Please don't go for the, I sent it, I'm gonna wait for it.

I think you should do follow-up emails. I think, I think you should be conversational and maybe even remember that the person that you're applying to, like this person who's gonna give you this job and it's this big thing. Maybe don't be so desperate about it. There's a million people out here who can give you a job. This one, this one that you're applying for, figure out that person. Don't figure out that job.

Figure out that person who you're applying to and find what makes sense for you. Have a conversation about coffee. Have a conversation about the latest book you read, the latest project you had. Say something about yourself and really maybe even hone in on social skills more than just, the technical stuff. Because I don't think people get the job just based on their technical abilities. I think it's very important to remember that you have to work with a person.

And so it's almost better for you to be a pleasure to work with than for your work to speak for itself only. It just is not true.

Christian Solorzano [38:46]

Yeah, I love that. So talking, I wanna, I wanna talk a little bit about Your vision for the future, which is such a big question, but with the work that you're doing with Bueno Days and the community and just everything that we've been talking about, what are you hoping— what kind of seeds are you hoping to plant now that could lead to some future in which— what do you want that future to be? What is your definition of a utopia?

Cristobal Mora [39:18]

Oh man, someone's utopia is another person's dystopia, so I wouldn't call it that. I'm in a, I'm in a transition period, Chris. I'm definitely not the— I think a year ago I would've told you that I wanna be a better business person and really hone in on creating business models that in a way do build my utopia.

I admire people like Edmar Lumpen in Bridgeport. I admire, these, honestly, these like groups of photographers or musicians who create community. The Dojo, I don't know if they still exist, but they gave us our first like really cool show. And it's this little community. It's like these worlds you build. And so I'm definitely about building worlds. But I think now that I'm a dad, it's kind of— I've changed. I've changed massively. So I don't want to give an answer that I don't feel 100% on.

But before, it was very much about becoming better at business because I think it's definitely like the, it was, it was the goal up until a few months ago. Was to like diversify my wealth, basically my revenue. 'Cause it's, I don't know if you've heard of like the forthcoming. I know it sounds like a crazy funny thing, but it's this idea that the world repeats itself, like history repeats itself. And it's like in every, it's like these 4 blocks of history.

And I think the way that the world is going, we're kind of in this last one, which is usually the crisis. It's you know when the Roman Empire collapsed. It's that's the kind of thing that we're in right now. And so I'm a little bit on. I want to thrive, but I also want to make sure that I'm not forgetting like how I'm surviving. I don't want to get to survival mode, but it does. It was very much.

I want to start a business not only to fulfill my pursuit of just creating fun stuff and like people. That's super important. There's an underlying side of me. Which is I wanna make sure that this thing can like always exist so that if, let's say, design jobs get cut or, the industry's in flux, it's okay. I'm not, I'm not like, my family and I are not gonna be as worried as we were if we were just doing this one thing.

And this might become from, this is the Mexican American side, right? It, it's so scary to like not have enough money to cover the essentials. And I think that's probably why I was where I was at. Now I'm— I don't know. Now I think I'm— I don't have a huge inspiring future to give. I think people need to figure it out for themselves. But I definitely know for a fact that I want to see more people around doing things.

So it'll probably be that our space will be more open to collaborations, and I think even encouraging people to like See third spaces just beyond the cafe, because it's so crazy. It's so crazy to get into small business. You have no idea how much, how hard it is to keep a space running. And so I know for a fact we all need each other. And so we ask for these third spaces. I would love to see a future, again, not my vision, just in general.

Where we all can like honestly just exist for free. It's crazy how on a weekend, you end up spending, $200 and it was just you just, you were just living and breathing. It felt, it felt like, but, it just racks up. It's just, it's getting, it's getting out of hand how, yeah, how expensive, like just a normal lifestyle, maybe like in Mexico or like abroad could be. I would love to see a plaza, like a real plaza in Chicago where, and it's not just downtown.

Like in our neighborhoods, like Logan Square, or like even there's a plaza right outside of our, of our cafe and that gets activated. Don't, I wanna see more of that. I want people to maybe even identify more with being a tourist in their own city and like bouncing around people's neighborhood and seeing the beauty. And, we're such a, we're such an eclectic city and I think we have these pockets.

And everything feels kind of like the good stuff is gatekept. Just go explore, go walk around? Let it, let it be more like free-flowing. And obviously coming from the talker, the yapper, let's just, let's just keep talking. Let's like get excited about the future. Yeah. I don't necessarily have a big vision, unfortunately, at the moment.

Christian Solorzano [43:44]

Well, it sounds like you do have a big vision. I took away a big vision from what you were just talking about. And I, and I asked this because something that I often find myself thinking and sometimes keeping me up at night is just the word legacy.

And I feel, so many of us have, being that we're from Chicago and so many great things have come out of the city, I kind of think of yourself, like you, Chris, as the work that you're doing being a kind of vocation. Like there's no other way. Like it's just what you have to do. And I can hear it in your voice that you take it very seriously.

So my question was like, when it comes to legacy, like what kind of legacy do you wanna leave behind? And I, and I think you touched on it.

Cristobal Mora [44:29]

Yeah, I did touch on it and I think it would probably be a few things, but ultimately it really comes down to being proud of yourself, being proud of who you are. And it's so cliché, but man, some of these clichés are becoming more relevant in my life at the moment. What we do at the shop is, and this is something that Alma started doing when we started hiring People, besides, family members, which doesn't mean that, we didn't take it seriously then.

But I think this thing we started doing was we started doing a StrengthsFinder. And, you're a barista, you're thinking, I'm just gonna make some coffee, right? This is like a simple job. It's not. It's a, it's a very delicate job. And the one note we wanna do for all of our staff is that we make sure that they are, they understand their strengths. Because it has a huge effect on the team. It has a huge effect on how they see themselves.

And it's something that they can take with them after, they're not with us anymore, like after they graduate us and do something else.

And so that legacy of like always reminding people to be like the best version of themselves, I think will like outlast any cool piece of art or, just cool little moment. I, it's just, I think it's bigger than us. I think people are happiest when they don't feel like they're comparing themselves to anybody else, that they're innately themselves. So the StrengthsFinder, it's a book, it's a Gallup, I think it's, I think it's called the Gallup StrengthsFinder.

Super cheap. It's not that expensive. I think it's worth everybody doing it. And so I think maybe even now it's more important now cuz I think, cuz I have a child and I think about them when I think of legacy. But it's just so much— it's so much bigger than just what I want to give to my daughter at the moment, right?

Christian Solorzano [46:18]

Yeah.

Cristobal Mora [46:19]

I think about my sister. My sister's 11 years younger than I am. And the reason why I bring her up is because she was our first hire at Bueno, and it was so important to have her on board. She was this, just like at the beginning, you know what I mean?

It's just like this clay, and we were, we were like we all wanted to mold this clay into something that we'd all be really proud of, that needed to work for us, but also work for her. And she's killing it. She's doing so good. She's the— she's also the reason why I finished high school. So there's already a few things— or not high school, college. So there's already a few legacy pieces that I feel like really—

Proud of, because I probably wouldn't have graduated college if I didn't have this like 11-year-old at home Knowing that she was gonna have to deal with college stuff soon.

And knowing that I have this effect on her. But again, it's it always comes down to. I really think it comes down to figuring out your strengths and maybe choosing a more interesting life than this. Like maybe this like momentary happiness life that I think everybody else will like maybe say, "Oh, just get that career. Get this thing." Like happiness looks like. Maybe default stock dreams.

And I really think you find the real dream when you're just like going out and exploring and you kind of meander from that, like that path.

Christian Solorzano [47:42]

Yeah. Yeah. I like it. I think the best part about everything that you just said is that it's a, like a generational impact. Like you hope that the people that you inspire will pass it on. And then they'll pass it on and you're just creating this link of kind of like, it's another cliché, but like just paying it forward, like doing one thing and then someone else does it for someone else.

And then eventually it's just a kind of ecosystem that you create where everyone operates under that same mentality. So I like it.

Cristobal Mora [48:13]

Yeah. Why did you, let me ask you a question. Why did you start this Underscore project and the Chicago Design Club?

Christian Solorzano [48:24]

It was a very selfish initiative. And it was just, I wanted to— I created the stuff that I wanted to see. And that was really the only reason. And similar to these conversations, I'm like, I want to talk to these people. And that's it. And I want to learn from them. And I find that I've learned more from these kind of conversations that I have from Definitely from school.

Like school taught me, I feel like just 2%, but I think the real education comes from having conversations like this. And then also I think similar to your situation, I have, I also have a younger sibling that's 11 years younger than me and I try to do things that hopefully inspire him and yeah, just pretty much inspire him. So.

Cristobal Mora [49:11]

Literally. I think that's so cool that we have that in common actually. I just remembered that you said that the last time we were hanging out. Yeah, man, that's crazy. Not too many people have that kind of massive gap because your, even your identity as a brother probably maybe shifted sometimes. Maybe sometimes you're like, yeah, I'm not really your brother right now. Yeah, I'm more of like a guardian to you right now. We're not hanging out, we're not hanging out together like 2 bros.

So yeah, I think, man, I had another question for you actually, but it's like you're an educator too and how did, how did that end up happening?

Christian Solorzano [49:46]

So I knew, I knew I wanted to teach when I was in college because I just, I'm the kind of person that just gets obsessed with things. And graphic design has been something that I've always been into ever since I was like 11 years old.

Like when I first heard that word and when I first, I remember being in Mexico and going through my family's CD collection and just being like amazed at the artwork and like trying to understand why sometimes the artwork didn't sound like, didn't look like what the music sounded. And it was just so confusing. I'm like, who makes these decisions? There is an Aerosmith album and it was a cow and it was branded with the Aerosmith logo. And in my mind, I'm like, why?

Why would someone do that to a cow? And then that just became— and then also going to Mexico, like MTV in Mexico, was just way better than MTV here.

Cristobal Mora [50:41]

MTV tres?

Christian Solorzano [50:42]

I don't know. Wait, I think it was that one, but it was just like they it was actually like music. It was like just music videos, and I remember just being obsessed with just Mexican. Like if going to Mexico and going to the like the flea markets, the markets, and all the bootlegs, like yeah.

Cristobal Mora [51:01]

Oh my god!

Christian Solorzano [51:02]

And sometimes they would they would have a bootleg CD, but it was like an alt like an alternate. Cover and it would have a typo or just, it would just look rare. And that just led me to wanting to be a designer. But yeah, and then, and I think it's just been an obsession ever since. So I think I just like it. That's the simple answer.

Cristobal Mora [51:24]

And you're like, I imagine you're a disciplined person because I also saw that you do jiu-jitsu.

Christian Solorzano [51:30]

I do.

Cristobal Mora [51:31]

Right?

Christian Solorzano [51:31]

Yeah. That's like my—

Cristobal Mora [51:34]

You're a black belt?

Christian Solorzano [51:34]

I am a black belt, and I'm actually— I would be in jiu-jitsu right now, but I'm talking to you.

Cristobal Mora [51:38]

I'm honored because I know how disciplined it takes. You gotta show up, man. Yeah, I did jiu-jitsu for a while until I was too injury-prone, and I literally just— I couldn't recover from the injuries fast enough. Okay, but I love that you have all these sides to you.

Christian Solorzano [51:55]

Yeah, I mean, there is a great jiu-jitsu school that I go to on the South Side. That call U Flacker Academy, and I would recommend you to go. It's very, it's a very safe school. Everyone's really nice. And this is me just shouting them out. So U Flacker Academy, it's in Garfield Ridge.

Cristobal Mora [52:12]

Wow. Oh, Garfield Ridge. I thought you were gonna say Garfield Park, cuz I would go to the South Side Jiu-Jitsu, which is like a newer club that opened up like in Kenwood, just outside of Hyde Park. And that's what I was going to. Most recently, until again I couldn't recover from the injuries fast enough.

Christian Solorzano [52:30]

Okay, how long did you train for?

Cristobal Mora [52:33]

Not long, dude. It was always on and off. So in high school, I used to box, and the MMA thing was happening right then, right? So UFC was like all the rage, and I wanted to be honestly, I wanted to fight like that. And so I started doing jiu jitsu at the same like maybe that like that second year of boxing. And so I've been doing jiu jitsu since I was like. In high school, on and off.

And it is my lack of discipline showing here because it'd be like every other year I'd be like, oh, let's get back into it. And then pretty much the same story. It's, I had really bad knees. I really— and these are just excuses, but I always loved combat sports.

Christian Solorzano [53:08]

Yeah. And I find that there's such a strong overlap. I think what we do, like what you do with what you do and what I do with a lot— with what I do, I think there's such a fighter mentality. To these things.

Cristobal Mora [53:22]

And I think so too.

Christian Solorzano [53:23]

Yeah. And I just find myself like always translating jiu-jitsu into design and into the way that I negotiate with people and the way that I work with people. It's one-to-one. It's just incredible. So.

Cristobal Mora [53:38]

It's a challenger's mentality too, right? Like it's like chess. I think jiu-jitsu is like a combination of Literally playing chess, but then also like being like this really ambitious person. Yeah. No matter what size you are, you either gonna use, you try not to use your strength. I feel like you try to use technique.

And I think with design it's the same way, right? Like sometimes you can have this big heavy hitter design stuff and, usually on a kickoff there's like many designers doing the same thing. And so it gets, that's just how it is in our agency. Like it gets dwindled down to the one designer who like basically, yeah, stays on the project. Yeah, I think, I think about that all the time, actually. So it's very funny that you say that. And my mentor would agree with you too.

He loves boxing. And so he always, he's so good at coming up with these like little metaphors on the spot. And he always uses boxing as a thing.

Christian Solorzano [54:25]

Yeah. Having someone really strong and heavy on top of you, if you can survive that, you can, in my opinion, you could do any, you could do anything? So it's beautiful, but I know we're almost at time. I just have like a few just rapid-fire questions. And one of them is, being that you're from Chicago, what are your favorite Chicago spots when you're not working? When you're not thinking about work, how do you explore the city and turn your brain off?

Cristobal Mora [54:55]

Man, that's such a good question. As of late, I've been in my own little world, but when I'm not, I really, I really enjoy Honestly, some of our friends' businesses. Nabo Pizza is somewhere I like, literally crave probably weekly. And you can also get coffee there actually, which is pretty fun.

When it comes to honestly beverages, man, I'm a sucker for mezcal. So I really love— I love doing 2 things. I love either buying a really nice bottle of mezcal. Moreno Liquors is probably like my favorite selection. But if you go to the Stereo, like many of us do, they have just a wonderful selection. Man, I'm probably missing out on some really amazing things. Yesterday we went to 312 Fish Market. It's my favorite, sushi. Amazing.

I feel like they do all of it really great, like nigiri stuff, sashimi stuff. It's always really nice. There's this Thai spot called Noble Thai that, I'm obsessed with. They have this Tiger Cry appetizer that I get 2 of for my dinner. Yeah. My, probably my other favorite coffee spot is it's gonna probably be like 4-letter words. So just love what they do with how they're roasting in-house. Super nice. What else? I think I'm missing out on some, so many important people.

But yeah, maybe that's all I can think of right now.

Christian Solorzano [56:13]

Maybe at the end of the year we'll do like we'll reach out and I'll, we'll ask you for like your top picks, how they do with the holiday shopping. This will be like holiday places to go to.

Cristobal Mora [56:26]

So there you go.

Christian Solorzano [56:27]

That could be fun. And I know music is a big part of your life. What do you listen to? What have you been listening to? What are some of your favorite music artists?

Cristobal Mora [56:36]

Yeah, right now I'm obsessed with finding an instrumental that we can use for Bueno's social media. Like I just use the same exact instrumental and kind of create like that title card in between, like in the beginning of a show, but make that our social media strategy. So I've been listening to a ton of old school, like Carlos Santana or like Malo, like even before then. A lot of the bolero stuff I'm like obsessed with.

So I'm still, I'm still, I still love like Los Panchos and anybody who does iterations of that. I was most recently practicing with a friend. He was getting ready for a show, but I was just helping him with practices on percussion, and we were doing a Buena Vista Social Club and it's— I'm really obsessed right now. It kind of always happens eventually. It's like I get back into the old, really old school stuff that's— it doesn't even matter like how things were recorded.

It was like there was just a mic in the room. It feels that way at least.

There's a mic in the room and it's just like capturing like some imperfect moments. It's not like these amazing vocalists only. It's the energy. I really appreciate that what feels effortless but probably required so much just like time and dedication and like living a certain lifestyle to get to that point. There's also like the other side of it, which is, Alma and I came from— came back from Copenhagen in October, and I still can't stop thinking about that city.

And the music that's coming out of there is— it's so interesting because I feel like they're really inspired by like American music, that it's like, it feels like it's getting filtered back to me because I'm just like hearing it again. And so I'm being reminded of some, just American classics. So I think I'm an old guy now and I just like old— I just, I like old music.

Christian Solorzano [58:17]

Yeah. Yeah. I saw a picture the other day on Instagram where Blink-182 was in the oldies radio station.

Cristobal Mora [58:25]

That's amazing. I love that so much.

Christian Solorzano [58:28]

Yeah. Just crazy.

Cristobal Mora [58:30]

Did you see, did you see that All-American Rejects did— they're starting to do house shows again?

Christian Solorzano [58:34]

I saw, I've never, I've never really been into them, but I did see that they were in a Chicago, like Backyard, like they were playing somewhere in Chicago backyard.

Cristobal Mora [58:46]

It was Chicago. I didn't even know it was in Chicago. I think they're just like playing backyard parties now. They're like not even interested in— I think they literally say they are tired of Ticketmaster and these, things that like just inflate prices. He's like, man, let's go back to the roots. I love that tune. Yep.

Christian Solorzano [59:00]

And then, and then the other question is, when you're working, what are some of your office must-haves? Like what are the, what are the things in your environment that you need to be able to focus, to lock in?

Cristobal Mora [59:11]

Oh man, I have a few things. I have— I always make a pour-over in the morning that I keep in my little thermos, and I always— I don't know why, but I don't like drinking it out of the thermos. I always have like a nice little like cup, a short cup. I think it kind of helps me keep track of time. The quicker, I sip it, I realize I'm like kind of more locked in.

I've been drinking a lot of like electrolyte water I think just bubbly electrolyte water is important for me. Headphones. I have these, I have the AirPods, but that's good for like commute and meetings. But when I'm like actually locked in, I like wearing like over-ear headphones that aren't noise canceling. I like to still be in my environment. So I have these, I forget what the brand is. I think it's like Alien Audio or something like that. It's something I got a long time ago.

And then lastly, I use a timer. On my phone. I do these like 15-minute design sprints. So usually if I, if I'm like stuck, I'm just all right, what could I do in 15 minutes? And I'll just, I think I'm considering actually buying like a physical timer now. 'Cause that, that's something that I've been, it's been working really well for me. I'm not much of a drawer, but I always have a notepad on me, like a gridded paper notepad.

And I like, I honestly like cheap, like BIC pens for that sort of stuff. Something too pretty and too beautiful, like the calligraphy pens or like these like fountain, like it's too much. And I think with that, I'm set.

Christian Solorzano [60:37]

Cool. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat. Big fan of everything that you're doing. And I hope that we keep the door open so that we can do like last, it was last weekend, right?

Cristobal Mora [60:51]

Yes.

Christian Solorzano [60:51]

Last weekend when we went to Bueno Days. I would love to do more things like that in the future. So thanks for Opening your space to us, and I've only heard good things about the people that from the people that went about just how great it was. So thank you for creating those spaces.

Cristobal Mora [61:06]

Of course, man. Pleasure to talk.

Christian Solorzano [61:08]

What a great conversation that was. Thank you so much for tuning in. Like I mentioned in the beginning, if you enjoy conversations like this, we really appreciate all of your supports. So thank you for listening, and to learn more about us and what we do. Visit www.chicagographicdesign.club. Thank you, and we'll talk to you later. Goodbye.