Christian Solorzano [00:00]

Hello, you are listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and today I'm excited to share my conversation with Alisa Wolfson, EVP and Head of Design at Leo Chicago, where she's built the agency's design department. Alisa grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, and she found design kind of sideways. Her dad was in the wine import-export business, and she would always ask him if she could design the labels for the wine.

She didn't know yet that what she wanted to do had a name. So she taught herself what she could— design history, art history, layout— and made projects in her garage, shot her portfolio on slide film, and applied to a program a friend had gone through. She got to VSA by calling and calling until somebody finally picked up. Since then, she's led teams to top honors across the industry, and she's been recognized by Ad Age as Woman to Watch. She's been president of AIGA Chicago.

She's in the New City Design Hall of Fame here in Chicago, and she sits on the board of the Arts Alliance of Illinois. One of the things that I've been thinking about lately is how much of what we see has been handled before it gets to us, and Alisa has a clear answer to that. Almost nothing is unedited. The stuff built to look unpolished has been polished, and designers, she says, have been standing right next to that since the beginning of advertising.

We also talk about the stretch she spent working for herself. Which turned out to be lonely enough to change her mind about how she wanted to work. And she tells me about a rubber band she carried for an era of her life, a cookie jar shaped like an ice cream cone that barely fits in a cabinet, and a project she once made about her own hair with a line in the corner she remembers as, I take myself wherever I go.

As always, if you enjoy conversations like these, we really appreciate your support when you leave us a rating wherever you listen. It helps us expand our reach across Chicago's creative community and beyond. Thank you so much for tuning in. Enjoy the conversation. Welcome, Alisa. We're recording this on Friday, August 28th. How are you doing?

Alisa Wolfson [02:38]

Today I'm good. Good. How are you?

Christian Solorzano [02:42]

I'm doing good. It's Friday and it's— I feel like we're on the brink of autumn, so I'm looking forward to it.

Alisa Wolfson [02:51]

Yeah, I did look at the weather for next week because I had the same notion, but it's going to be like very hot. Might be rainy, but I do agree. It just, it feels like it has that in the air.

Christian Solorzano [03:07]

Do you find that your body responds— how does it respond to extreme heat versus extreme cold? Do you have a preference?

Alisa Wolfson [03:14]

I'm much more of a heat person. Shh, it's my dog growling at me. I'm much more— I like the heat more, although I don't love extreme heat, but I cannot tolerate the cold. I grew up in Chicago, so I don't know why I'm still here. It's— the winters are hard. In fact, it wasn't until I got a dog where I actually would go outside, recreationally. Now I'm a much healthier person.

Christian Solorzano [03:42]

What was your childhood like?

Alisa Wolfson [03:43]

What was my childhood like? It was— I had a very good childhood. Very, I'd say, without getting into detail, very typical cliché middle class, lower middle class Midwestern Suburban family. I have a younger sister. I was very active in junior high and high school. I did a lot of stuff. I had a lot of friends. I was into stuff. And I was always kind of ready to be an adult, though.

I was— we had a shed in the back of our house that held stuff, but it was more like a little wooden house. And in a non-fancy way, it was a wooden house. And I always wanted to move in there. Not that I didn't like my parents, I love my parents, but I just love independence and pretty happy being an adult.

Christian Solorzano [04:37]

Did you feel like you were running from something, like a sense of, escaping authority or seeking independence?

Alisa Wolfson [04:44]

Do you have siblings?

Christian Solorzano [04:46]

I do. I have one younger brother.

Alisa Wolfson [04:48]

So, you're like the oldest.

Christian Solorzano [04:51]

You—

Alisa Wolfson [04:51]

There's just a lot of cliché things that happen when you're the oldest. And I think once I realized that I wasn't going to be exactly, the perfect kid, I think I dreamed of a different life where there was just more going on. And what I mean by that is, I didn't exactly rebel, I was fairly compliant.

But I always thought of myself as somebody who had more going on or who— I just felt like there was something else out there for me that wasn't being offered to me. And it turns out there was. I mean, my parents— my dad passed away when I was in my 20s. My mom is still alive, but they were lovely. It's just that they were very sheltered. And so, they raised us very sheltered.

And I was more interested in having a more expansive life, even when I was little. It's funny that I haven't really gotten very far. I grew up in Chicago, suburbs of Chicago. I haven't really moved on, but I do think of life in a different way than I did when I was growing up.

Christian Solorzano [06:06]

What were you like as a teenager? What were some of the things that you were into?

Alisa Wolfson [06:09]

When I was a teenager, I was very— I think I was pretty happy, and I was involved in a lot of stuff. And I had a lot of friends. And I just sort of fit the typical 16-year-old vibe. I have a son who's 17, and he always asks me, or he always kind of accuses me, well, you were popular in high school.

And I don't think that's a really good word because I think that it's kind of become cliché, like what high school is like, all these little cliques. And I don't think it was that.

Christian Solorzano [06:47]

I just—

Alisa Wolfson [06:48]

I'm a real people person. And I just had a lot of friends in a lot of different places. And I don't 100% think that I was like super well-liked all the time, but I liked everyone. Like I just, I like people. So yeah.

Christian Solorzano [07:05]

And at what point did you decide that you wanted to pursue a field in design?

Alisa Wolfson [07:13]

Okay, well, that's a great question. I didn't know what I wanted to do was called. And so, and I sort of didn't know what I wanted to do, but I got the feeling. My dad was in the wine import-export business, and I would always ask him if I could design the labels for the wine. And he would be like, I—

Christian Solorzano [07:38]

That's—

Alisa Wolfson [07:39]

Now realizing how businesses are, of course, he probably never talked to marketing. He was only in pushing the wine out the door. And I didn't really understand what that was called. And I liked art and I drew a lot. And I think it started because I was friendly with somebody who had gone to the Yale program in Brissago. And I had sort of been taking design courses at my college, but I wasn't like at all efficient in it.

We're talking like, this is before the Mac, so, a lot of stuff was done by hand, and I'm not a very precise person when it comes to drawing and stuff, so I didn't really 100% get the whole ordering out type or, enlarging stats or everything done by hand. But I did understand that I wanted to learn more about it, and so— Since she told me about it, I was like, well, that's something that I would like to do.

And so I'd already graduated and I applied to go and I got in. I think I got in off the waitlist. I'm sure they were like, what, who is this? What is this? Because I made a lot of projects like in my garage, but they needed somebody and I was willing to go and I showed up and I learned a lot.

And then I was a graphic designer, but there are so many designers that are more schooled than I am or more versed in typography than I am. I have always thought of myself more as a generalist. I— and I also like people, so I'm interested in communicating to them, which is probably how I wound up working for an ad agency. The masses.

Christian Solorzano [09:33]

And when you were working on some of— so you mentioned you were working on some personal projects in the garage?

Alisa Wolfson [09:38]

Yeah, in the garage.

Christian Solorzano [09:40]

And what were you what were some of those projects? What were you exploring?

Alisa Wolfson [09:44]

I had a couple design courses in college, and I was redoing a few posters and projects just to try to get them to be better. I knew I was asking to go someplace that was maybe beyond my expertise. So I was just trying to teach myself a little bit more about graphic design history and art history and understand layout a little bit and understand, how to communicate the discipline. And I was also— I did some freelance work, like for small industrial companies.

So I had, some identity work for them. I'd also produced a poster in college for some— God, I don't even know what it was. It was like some writer symposium. So I had that, and I just kind of collected a bunch of stuff and put that in my portfolio. And I had, one of those big vinyl ones. And then I shot everything on slide film.

And I have somewhere in here, actually, because I haven't moved everything to storage yet, I have like my Kodak Carousel that I had sent— that they sent me back, and it's hysterical. It's got like 10 sad slides in it of like self-produced mediocre work, but it's okay. We used to do this at my job every so often. I forgot whose idea it was. It wasn't mine. I wish it were.

It was like on weekly meetings, we would each go around and show people pieces, like one piece that we were proud of that we did when we were learning. And then there was like, of course, one piece that we were like totally embarrassed of.

And that could be anything, but it was really interesting to see. I mean, it was interesting to see how, some of the people that I'd hired who had just come from school, how slick their portfolios were. And then some of the people who are more in my generation, come in with all these hodgepodge things that we still have in our collection. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [11:57]

It takes a certain kind of person to go from being a designer to having the leadership role that you have today. In my conversations with designers, I often find that there are some people that are more into just being behind the scenes designing and producing. And then there's another group that is that wants to sell and wants to pitch and wants to do all of that business strategy side.

So what was there a turning point that kind of switched for you where you felt like you were kind of done being on the computer pushing pixels and now you wanted to do more of the business side of things?

Alisa Wolfson [12:39]

It's like yes and no. I think just my personality of wanting to connect with people helps me not want to always be behind the computer working on things because I want to engage, in conversation. I was always the one talking in a studio that was, super quiet. And even, my first really good job, which is when I worked at VSA early on, I was sort of a hybrid.

I talked to the clients just as much as I designed, and I kind of didn't fall into one or the other type of people. And we were all kind of managing our own projects at that point. And so, as I've matured and gotten more involved in my career, I've gravitated towards a much more hybrid role. And now I would say, just with technology and just the intricacies of working at a big company, I'm a little more hands-off, but I do still make stuff.

I just— not to the volume or the fidelity of some of the people on my team. And I have been taking on some freelance stuff, a couple things a year just to keep fresh. And it's just fun because I like working on the crafting of things, but I'm just— I'm not as fast, but I think having human interaction is really important to me. Working in a quiet, small studio is not my jam. I can't do it. I've tried. I'm like bouncing off the walls.

Yeah. I'm not better than somebody who's sitting at the computer. I just have like different kind of energy. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [14:35]

And is that something that took you time to learn about yourself?

Alisa Wolfson [14:38]

At one point in my career, I wanted to work for myself. Mostly just because I wanted to be in control of my comings and goings. And I was a bit burned out from working for other people. And I had this fantasy that it was going to be a lot easier. And as it turns out, it wasn't. It was very lonely. I had my own little studio and my best projects were when I was working with other people.

And yeah, when I— took the job at Burnett, which is now officially called Leo, so I try to call it Leo. When I took the job at Leo, I didn't think that I was gonna last. I just, I was like, cool, freelance project, in and out. And then I walked in the door and I met people immediately, and I just laughed my ass off most of the time and got to work on cool stuff. And just really connected.

And I don't think that anybody saw that coming, but thinking back on it now, it makes perfect sense because I was just so depressed and lonely by myself.

Christian Solorzano [15:47]

One of the things that I've been thinking a lot about lately and talking with my friends about is this like, I think there's an extreme sense of isolation that a lot of us feel today because of— Because of how easy it is for us to just be behind a computer.

I tend to be someone that's optimistic and hopeful about the future. And I see a future that is more human and where these kind of interactions and conversations amongst people can become just more part of the ordinary everyday activity. So my question for you is, what do you think are the ingredients or qualities that go into great collaboration?

Alisa Wolfson [16:31]

I love this question. It's such an interesting one. I think my dog is right now scratching on a pillow trying to tell me that he's angry, but he'll eventually stop. We're just gonna ignore him. I think collaboration comes with curiosity and trust, and not only trusting other people, because you have to if you want to collaborate, but trusting yourself.

Christian Solorzano [17:00]

Right?

Alisa Wolfson [17:01]

Like trusting yourself to give just the right amount, trusting yourself to let other people talk, let other people come up with better ideas, trusting yourself to take, to take the lead or to follow, and either are really great skill sets to have. And I find that the people who collaborate less are I don't know if they trust themselves less or trust other people less or they're control freaks or whatever, but I can guarantee they're not having as much fun.

I see them kind of sweating the small stuff and I feel like sometimes when you have a team, you can talk through the stuff before you get to that small stuff. And I'm a huge believer in teamwork. However, I'm on a project right now where it seems like there's like 100 people and— That's a little nebulous, like it's like who's doing what when, but I'm not overseeing all those people, so yeah, that's good news.

Christian Solorzano [18:03]

Yeah. Over the last 6 years since COVID happened, do you think that there's parts of either collaborating or working or designing that we just have to let go of? What are some things that we need to stop doing, or maybe start doing?

Alisa Wolfson [18:24]

Yeah, I mean, stop doing would be harder because I don't really— anytime anyone ever gets mad, at least at my office, it's like the timeline changed, or people have weird expectations, or people aren't 100% understanding of how long it takes somebody to do something nice, not even good, but like nice. I mean, we're not AI machines, and it's not like a formula. So if you get a brief, you're like, okay, I'm gonna meet that brief. I'm not gonna give myself like 20 minutes on it.

I'm gonna try to make it into something. And that part's hard, when you think that there's opportunity there and then there's not. That's really frustrating. But I don't know. I don't really, I don't know. I'm not 100% sure how to answer that question yet. I have to think about that.

Christian Solorzano [19:17]

To me, there seems like we're living through this time where there's a lot of reflection on what's working and what's not working. I see sometimes that there's a higher awareness of things that just don't work anymore or that we need to like move away from. And I've been trying to think about that in some of my practices as well. One example would be, Does everything always need to be so fast? Do we really need to keep following this false sense of urgency, all the time?

Alisa Wolfson [19:50]

I'd say the creative process hasn't changed. It's just the speed in which we deliver it has changed. And I am not pro-AI, but it's kind of a miracle and magic what AI can do so quickly. It's just, unless you know how to use it like a tool, it doesn't really get you— it doesn't get a lot of us, a soulful solution. It might kind of check the box, but yeah, I think it's a complicated and non-complicated issue.

The non-complicated part is you should have time to work on what you want to work on, and what you— and what you're working on should be valued. The complicated part is that depending on where you're working, the people who need the thing— and since graphic design can mostly be a service business, the people who need the thing are checking boxes or trying to get the work into the world in a way that meets weird deadlines.

So it's like we're sort of beholden to people who have no idea. And if you're lucky enough to own your own practice and do your own work and set your own schedule, I mean, some people just put irrational timelines on themselves, so they can do more work. I wish we weren't like that. I wish we weren't like that for so many reasons and in so many things. I do see my kid who is like probably the last of Gen Z. Not really into that.

They're not really into mainline advertising. They know they're being talked to. They're not into the whole hype of things. But then, I don't know, I was in LA a couple weeks ago and they wanted to go— they wanted to go take a picture at the pink Paul Smith wall. That's something? I mean, I don't think that's marketing or graphic design, but that's like a cultural moment that—

Even if you hate ads for banks or, printed material that comes out of a college or whatever, you're still participating in that and putting it on your social or whatever. So yeah. I also think that social media gives us a platform to be instantaneous with things that it's great that they kind of come and go.

A notion comes into your mind, you're like, I'm gonna take a picture of my dog eating, and that's so great, and I love it, and I want everyone to see what I'm doing. That's great, that's fine. It's just when work gets like that gets hard. It's like you only have 2 hours to do something, and then they want that on their channel, and it's like, no, that's a sketch.

So I have a feeling that we're not the only generation or group of generations who have gone through that trauma of things having to get done quickly. We might be really the only generation of workers who've kind of seen this radical change. I have, I know, because things have Things are completely different than when I started, but I think that's just life. It's cool to see.

Christian Solorzano [23:28]

I really love when a big brand does— when they get an influencer to promote or they sort of go the route of, we're gonna market in a manner that seems to be less polished and more authentic and more real. And I noticed that—

Alisa Wolfson [23:49]

What do you think about that?

Christian Solorzano [23:50]

Well, to me, sometimes it reads as a little bit more authentic and honest because it's putting the spotlight on an everyday person, and I say that in air quotes.

And I think that's one of the, one of the aspects of my question is whether advertising and marketing still needs to always be super polished, or if it can be a little bit unpolished now, and if that unpolishedness can come across as more yeah, we talk about this a lot and it gets down to that conversation on a lot of brands.

Alisa Wolfson [24:29]

It's not even like what is authentic and what isn't. That conversation, I feel like, is a hard one because nothing that we do, unless we're doing like a person on the street, is going to be wholly authentic because we're making it for the brand. But it could be, I guess, if authenticity was the brief.

But I'm working on something right now and we sourced some images for it, and I just read something before I got on the call with you that, somebody had critiqued it and said something like, this looks great, but do you think the bottle looks too dirty? Should it look like it's in your refrigerator or like a better version of what's in your refrigerator? And I think that's a great question.

When you see stuff out in the world, you're probably looking at things that have still been groomed a little bit. Polished a bit. Even though they look like they're in someone's bathroom, they're edited. Unless you're like looking at a TikTok or a livestream, it's manufactured for the medium, just like stuff is manufactured for a bus shelter. And certain people are quite good at making the stuff, and some companies hire people to manage this stuff.

And that, I think, has kind of unlocked a whole different facet of making and design and the hybrid of, marketing, I guess. It's not really marketing. It's like creative influence, creative influencer and social, but it is sort of under the larger marketing umbrella. But I'd argue that everything that we do, at least on my end, is extremely thought of, even if it doesn't look like it is.

That is a lovely thought because then you're like, Looking out in the world at all the stuff you see and you're like, oh, it's like that person's not better than me. They wanted that person to be better than me. That's why I don't need those jeans? I mean, it's just kind of a mindfuck.

Christian Solorzano [26:57]

Yeah. Before I joined this call, I took a photograph of my little setup and I put that I was going to be recording an episode soon. And I have a dog and He sheds a lot, so there is dog hair on my laptop. And for a split second I'm like, let me remove the dog hair and let me retake the photo and then post.

But I just left it there because, in this moment there is a dog hair on my laptop and I want that to be part of— That documentation to things. So yeah, it's interesting. Do you find that because you are in the world of Advertising and marketing that you are more— are you less influenced by marketing that you see out in the wild, or what's your relationship to seeing other brands?

Alisa Wolfson [27:43]

Oh, that's such a good question. Instagram is the bane of my existence because it's shitty that you can even turn off all the, please don't use my demographics and use all the metrics and follow me around and market towards me. And you can like click off all of the important buttons that kind of give you your own little space.

And still, if you search for orange juice on your laptop and the next ad that you see on your Instagram feed is orange juice, that's the world we're living in.

And so, I'm conscious of that because I'm like, ugh, gosh, I wish that wouldn't have happened. But, at the same time, I don't know. I mean, I'm going online and there's like an antique store in France that I like, but I'm not there. But, I can see the stuff that they're selling and, wow, they have something that I want. And, I just— I think that's beautiful.

All of a sudden, 3 days later or a week later, you got the little knickknack and it's $20 or whatever and you didn't have to go to France, though it's very fun to go to France. I think that's amazing. That's not totally what you're asking. I mean, when I see people wearing the jeans that look good on them, do I buy the jeans? I don't know if I buy them, but I might tag it and I might say, I want to look like that.

Do I ever spend the money on the jeans? Not always. I've reached a certain point in my life where I know those jeans aren't going to look good on my body, so I am like disinterested after a while. And sometimes I'm disinterested because I see it too much in social. I'm like, well, I don't want that pan because, everyone has one. I want the one that my grandma gave me. So yeah, I— again, I think it's all good. I really do. I think it's good.

I think that we could make it bad and we could find all the bad things in it and we could get stuck in the manipulation part of it, but that's been since the beginning of advertising.

And graphic designers have been right next to that process the whole way. And if you think that you're making decisions on your design projects and you're not thinking of how it's going to be interpreted to people. That's our job, whether it's designed for your personal reasons or designed for other people or designed for a company who's paying you. That design is being interpreted by people and there's no way out of that. So—

I think that we have to take what's happening in the world and find the silver linings. And even if we are influenced by the stupid jeans and we do buy them and they look like crap, I mean, I guess we're lucky if we've done our research and they're returnable, right?

Christian Solorzano [31:01]

Yeah.

Alisa Wolfson [31:01]

Or when we go outside and everyone's like, why is she wearing those jeans? I don't know. It's definitely an interesting time, and it's an interesting time for me because I've kind of I can call bullshit on a couple things, and I realize that just comes from being in the business and perhaps maybe age. I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [31:22]

What have been some of the highlights that you've had throughout the time that you've been doing what you do?

Alisa Wolfson [31:28]

Highlights. Oh my gosh, I've had so many highlights that I don't know. I mean, Having the job that I have and getting to work with a dynamic group of people on some very mundane but very weirdly pertinent products is a joy. I just, I really like what I do. I'm thrilled that I figured it out. I'm thrilled that there's a forum for me to get to express myself that isn't a drag. I'm thrilled that I'm trusted with all of this stuff. So that's primary right now.

I could probably think back. I mean, I loved traveling and learning when I was younger. I loved, working for a really crazy studio when I was in my 20s, and we were all in similar spots, and it was kind of like a family. Yeah, there's been crazy highlights. You get to travel, you meet important, interesting people, you get to take a picture next to someone cool, you get to be on a cool project where you are doing something you ordinarily wouldn't have gotten to do.

I think that's the plus side. The bad side could be the hours. But I don't— all work is work. At least it's— I always think to myself, at least I don't have to, wear something that I am uncomfortable in and get to work at a certain time period and punch in and punch out. I'm not good at that.

Christian Solorzano [33:14]

Yeah. Can you walk us through a Monday or like a typical day in your life?

Alisa Wolfson [33:21]

This whole work-from-home thing has sort of screwed that up, but I will try to do one for a non-work-from-home day.

Christian Solorzano [33:29]

Are you fully work-from-home?

Alisa Wolfson [33:31]

No, we're— I think we're 4 days in the office now, but I'm doing like 3, maybe. It just depends, sometimes when you get on a roll, it's harder to like get your butt into the office, and there's a tremendous amount of trust. And we have to get the work done, so kind of doesn't matter where it is. But I do love being around the people, and I like getting out of my own situation. So when I wake up in the morning, I'll take my dog out.

We usually go out for like an hour. He is active, so, lots of exercise, and we get fresh air whether it's rainy or snowy or sunny. And then I get ready and go to work. And I live close enough to work that I could walk, but I never do. I will walk home. I will never walk there. And I will either hit the ground running and go into meetings, or I will hole up in my little office and get some work done.

I always like a day where I can stop by and say hello to people that I'm friendly with in the office. Or if I have a meeting where there's some sense of relaxation or not a deadline, then everyone's less on edge. And work is different every day. So I couldn't even describe a real day if I wanted to. It's just the combination of everything that you would think.

And when I get home, it's a lot of like either hang out with my son, Take my dog for a walk, make dinner. Do a little bit of work again, watch a show, do some yoga. I have a pretty structured, non-structured life. I actually— it's less structured at work than it is outside of work. And then the outside of work stuff is— those are my milestones. And then when I go to work, I feel like I can be a little bit more creative and free.

Christian Solorzano [35:36]

When are you happiest?

Alisa Wolfson [35:37]

I don't know. I think happy is a weird word. I mean, I think I could be happiest sometimes, being by myself and looking out at the lake on an early Sunday morning, walking my dog. The next day, I could be in that very same position, looking out at that very same lake, and I could be miserable. So, I think it is obviously happiness is a state of mind, but it's also like if you're willing to be happy.

Because I don't necessarily think it's about where you are or what you're doing. It's, being present. And yeah, I mean, I just had a yogurt today and I was like, today's a good day. I don't know. I eat that yogurt all the time. I'm on a pitch and I'm totally scatterbrained. So I don't know. I don't know why I had that thought. Who knows?

Christian Solorzano [36:40]

Yeah, I like that answer. Sometimes I'm walking and I see this tree that I really like, and then other times I'm like, this is a stupid tree.

Alisa Wolfson [36:48]

You're like, I hate this tree. I don't— I mean, I really I wish there was a place where I'm like, oh, I love that tree, I'm gonna go sit under that tree and then I'm gonna be happy. I don't— I just don't think it works like that, unfortunately, for all of us. And of course, being around certain people make me happy, makes me happy, but not all the time. Sometimes those people are very annoying, and sometimes I'm sure I'm annoying those people. But—

Christian Solorzano [37:17]

If you're— if you're at a party and someone asks you to introduce yourself or to say what you do, what do you say?

Alisa Wolfson [37:28]

Oh, I usually will walk it back a little unless it's like a business thing. If it's a business thing, I'll— I'm Alisa, here's my title, blah, all the stuff. If I'm at a social gathering, I'll just say, my name's Alisa, like a flower, like a table. That's how you pronounce it. And I work in advertising and I'm a designer. And that's kind of where I'll leave it. And if people know me, they'll be like, well, that's not really totally what you do.

But I like that answer. I like answering with being a designer.

Christian Solorzano [38:07]

Yeah, I asked that question because I've been asking myself the question of, who am I without any sort of professional title? And if you take all of that away, what's left?

Alisa Wolfson [38:23]

And— But you're a designer, right?

Christian Solorzano [38:25]

Yeah.

Alisa Wolfson [38:26]

I'm not going to be like, I'm Alisa, I'm a Taurus, though I could. Yeah. I also have realized, and this isn't really a question, but it could be maybe for your next person. I actually, I'm not sure if I even have any hobbies, because I get a lot of satisfaction from work. I mean, I love books and I like having books and reading books, not fiction, just like pretty books. And I like things and I don't have to have expensive things. I just like objects.

But I just, it's an interesting thing to think about.

Christian Solorzano [39:05]

Are you a sentimental person, and do you find a sense of kinship or attachment to things?

Alisa Wolfson [39:15]

I can think of a couple people who would laugh their ass off just even knowing that you asked me that question, because yes, I am. I'm a sentimental person, and I have an attachment to things, and Yes. My sister probably would call me out the most because there was an era in my life where I used to wear my hair in a ponytail a lot, and I would always have a rubber band with me. And she realized one day that it was the same rubber band.

And I gotta say, I buy rubber bands all the time now, and I lose them. I don't know where they go. I don't know. I have no idea. I should buy different colors so I can kind of track it, but I don't know why at one time in my life I had one rubber band and now I can't even keep one in my pocket. But I think back on that and I love that rubber band.

I mean, it sounds like the dorkiest thing to say, but I wouldn't have lost it, and it must have been special to me because— It just worked. And then I have some very impractical things, like I'm looking at my counter right now and I have an enormous cookie jar that's shaped like an ice cream cone. And I moved recently and it doesn't even barely even fit in a cabinet.

Christian Solorzano [40:40]

Are you gonna keep it?

Alisa Wolfson [40:42]

So it's like, I guess it's gonna stay out or I'm gonna get rid of it or I'm gonna put it in storage.

Christian Solorzano [40:48]

It's—

Alisa Wolfson [40:48]

I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [40:50]

As you've been going through this move to this new place, what kind of space or environment do you feel is more suitable for you to feel most at ease? Or what are the sort of conditions that you tend to create for yourself to—

Alisa Wolfson [41:04]

Well, that's also a fun question because I'm very affected by my environment. I think Most people are. And I spent about a decade redoing a place and loving it and, everything from like, the exact finishes of everything. And it was beautiful. But after I moved on from there and I was looking for another place, I think one of my priorities was, that it feels solid.

That it feels like clean and that it gets a lot of light, and it could be pretty much vanilla. The house that I'm in right now is a new construction, and that surprised me, but it gets a ton of light and the doors feel nice and solid. They don't feel like hollow-core doors, and I just feel like I can kind of plant myself here and feel kind of taken care of. It's not huge.

And of course, if I had my way, I would have a yard and a lot more outdoor space. And— but I don't want to sacrifice living so near things. And my child's school is close and all that junk.

Christian Solorzano [42:31]

Where is someone most likely to run into you?

Alisa Wolfson [42:35]

My family room. I'm usually here. So if you're here, I will see you. And then Lincoln Park. I'm usually walking the dog who is very angry that I won't go lay down with him. My job is here. My family's here. My friends are here. But that is truly— other people's lives have kept me in Chicago and my I think I could probably do my job anywhere.

Christian Solorzano [43:02]

The year is in its second half now. Is there something about 2027 that you're looking forward to, or do you tend to be someone that looks to the future?

Alisa Wolfson [43:11]

Well, yeah. And again, without getting into great detail, because we'd need another several hours to talk about this, I actually had a conversation with my friend yesterday about what's been going on with me in the past year. I realized that 10 minutes later, I took a breath. I just have had a lot going on. And I'm— if things are on an annual clip and somebody were to promise me that 2027 was going to be like different and brighter, I would be quite happy.

It's been, it's been a slog of a year. And I've— I'm fine. Everything's fine. But it just— it was like one of those years that every month something happened and I was like, okay, interesting. I think, I think I'm just going to have to be along for the ride on this one because it's a weird one.

Christian Solorzano [44:12]

What's your dog's name?

Alisa Wolfson [44:13]

His name is Manny.

Christian Solorzano [44:16]

Manny.

Alisa Wolfson [44:17]

There he is. Hey.

Christian Solorzano [44:20]

How old is he?

Alisa Wolfson [44:21]

He's 7. Can you stop?

Christian Solorzano [44:24]

Will you stop?

Alisa Wolfson [44:24]

Will you lay down?

Christian Solorzano [44:25]

Have you had him for a long time?

Alisa Wolfson [44:26]

Since he was a baby, yeah. And he's being a baby right now. I'm gonna go get him some cheese. I'm just gonna stand up and go over there.

Christian Solorzano [44:35]

Yeah, go ahead.

Alisa Wolfson [44:35]

Is that allowed on this thing?

Christian Solorzano [44:36]

Yeah, please do.

Alisa Wolfson [44:36]

Okay. Okay, Manny, come on. Okay. Day in the life. What do you do? Well, I give my dog cheese a lot. Lay down. Lay down. All the way. All the way down. It's been a wild one. Have you ever had weird years before where you're like, holy crap. What just happened?

Christian Solorzano [45:06]

I don't want to make this about me, but I did lose my job on Tuesday. And—

Alisa Wolfson [45:11]

What?

Christian Solorzano [45:12]

Yeah, and that's a job that I had for 9 years.

Alisa Wolfson [45:15]

That sucks. I'm so sorry. Or congratulations, because you can turn that into something positive.

Christian Solorzano [45:24]

Yeah, I think so. But that's been I mean, that just feels like with anything that you've invested almost a decade into your life. And then having that—

Alisa Wolfson [45:34]

I'm sorry to hear that.

Christian Solorzano [45:35]

Taken away.

Alisa Wolfson [45:35]

Because I know that's stressful.

Christian Solorzano [45:37]

It is stressful. When it happened, I was on this call on Microsoft Teams, and it was something it had all to do with the company downsizing. So it was me and a few other people, and that and they're continuing to still do more layoffs. And I tried really hard to not be smiling during that call where they were letting me go because I did feel this I don't know there is an excitement and like this anticipation happening of like all right cool something.

Something else is going to happen.

Alisa Wolfson [46:09]

Yeah, totally. I mean, yeah, I'm not trying to like turn the questions into something else, but, you've asked me like such beautiful, open, positive questions. I've had— I've been laid off. I've had shittiness happen. I've lost a parent. I've lost friends. I've, like all these things that happen to you along the way kind of inform who you are. And I know that is like such a cliché, especially when you're like, yeah, I just want to get a job. But it'll turn around.

Because you don't seem like the kind of person who's just going to put your nose in the sand, or your head in the sand, I think is the expression. So you'll find something. I'm sorry though, because that's destabilizing.

Christian Solorzano [46:58]

It is. It's been like with anything that changes so drastically, like overnight, you wake up and you're like there's this I was describing to a friend today that there's like this phantom limb sensation where I want to reach for my phone to see if there's like a meeting that I have to go to. And then—

Alisa Wolfson [47:17]

I mean, I just came off a pretty long-term leave and I totally understand what you mean. Like having to switch off when you're like so switched on is it's a really weird sensation, but you'll be fine.

Christian Solorzano [47:34]

So what do you do when you switch off and when you go on leave?

Alisa Wolfson [47:39]

For me, it was medical, and so I had to heal, and I'm fine now, which is great. And I think like anyone, I can't take a vacation without like the first 3 or 4 days, feeling like, you still are sort of plugged in and you have to unplug. And I wish I could say that I can impart some wisdom on like this experience that I've had of not working for such a long time.

I wish I woke up and I was like, oh my God, I figured it out. None of that happened. I mean, maybe when I look back in a couple of years, I'll be like, oh wow, what a transformational time. I'm hoping that happens. But yeah, I wish I had a better answer. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [48:28]

And what are questions that tend to replay in your mind that you're always sort of seeking answers to? Has there been throughout your life this consistent search for something or this yearning for something? I—

Alisa Wolfson [48:44]

Yeah, I mean, I've always just wanted to be creative and be able to express myself. And if I'm in a room and I'm being told I can't talk, Even if I am like really not interested in the content that would get me, because I'm like I really want to express myself. Yeah. And then I don't know, I suppose I have to think about that a little.

Christian Solorzano [49:13]

I think often we believe that there's this destination that we're trying to get to, but then you get there. Then you get there and you're like, all right, well, there's always something else that you're searching for. And I guess that's a question that I've been asking myself is like, what is that one thing that I just like keep trying to find that maybe is like right in front of me and I just can't get to notice?

Alisa Wolfson [49:39]

I think, I don't, I mean, everyone's like, the journey's the destination. That could be a little cliché, but I'm more in that camp where, I don't know, I'm not sure there is— there's a place where I would ever get to where I'd be like, yes!

I wasn't raised like that. I have that like, I have that like weird footing, let's not get too excited. That's the person I am. I'm not, I'm not gonna be like, everything's great. Because then I would feel like the rug's gonna get pulled out from under me. So I don't—

Christian Solorzano [50:25]

Yeah. What's something about you that most people— that most people don't know about you? As I was researching you for this episode, there's a lot of stuff written about you online. And to me, sometimes that stuff is the least interesting to me because I'm like, that's already been communicated and those questions have been answered.

So is there a question that you've always maybe wanted to be asked, or what's something that you've that you feel you've never really got a chance to share in a conversation with someone? I know that's a deeply, a very personal question, but—

Alisa Wolfson [51:04]

Oh no, I mean, I think I could probably answer that pretty Fairly and easily. And I don't know if it's something that I've never been asked before, and I know that this is true because I've been told this, but I think that sometimes I come across like— when people don't know me, like I'm gonna be kind of snotty or bitchy, just a little headstrong. And I've had people say, wow, I'm so surprised that you're actually kind of nice. Which is rude.

And not nice. But it did tell me that, maybe I'm— I feel like I just, I really like people and I'm not like chasing down like the next big thing. I'm just really excited to be collaborating with people or knowing people and I don't know if that 100% gets across, and I think, there might be some people out there that call bullshit on me. You weren't that nice to me?

Christian Solorzano [52:11]

Yeah.

Alisa Wolfson [52:12]

I mean, sure, fine, but I think I'm just a pretty even-keeled person and pretty accepting and open-minded, and I don't know. I don't know if people know that about me. I think there's a lot of chatter about, what I think a good designer is or blah, and, everyone's got their own opinion on that.

I'm happy to say that mine changes a lot, but what it always comes down to is, that you know yourself as a person and that you can express yourself in the way that you want to. That could change. But yeah, I think— it's not that I'd want people to know that about me, but I just— I don't think a lot of people who don't know me know that I'm pretty soft. I'm a pretty sentimental, touchy-feely, soft person.

And I don't know, maybe I haven't done a good enough job with my public image to tell people that. I've never really— I don't know how you would get that across. I'm not going to go hugging everyone, and I'm about to yell at my dog, which will disprove anything that I say.

Christian Solorzano [53:25]

But that's funny. Do you feel like it's because those titles that you have that people might just make assumptions? Maybe. Yeah.

Alisa Wolfson [53:34]

Or, I mean, I think anybody who likes to talk in front of people sometimes gets that billing, I must— she must be hard to approach or whatever. I find myself kind of thinking the opposite, that person must really be okay with expressing themselves. I'm gonna go say hi. I don't know. For a while I thought maybe it was the bangs? Maybe. I don't know. I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [54:00]

What's the kind of design that you gravitate towards? I feel like everyone has this preference, this visual preference for things.

Alisa Wolfson [54:06]

I think I'm a minimalist, and then I'm also like kind of— I think there's like part of me that's a minimalist, but I'm stuck in like— I'm not a maximalist, but I'm definitely More than a minimalist. So when I see things that are like super distilled and pure and done really beautifully, like beautiful type and everything is kind of just complete gestalt, I am just in awe because I think that's very hard. However, I don't think that's the only thing. I think—

I'm looking at like my book collection and a lot of the titles and a lot of the books are pretty simple, but the people have made such interesting things design-wise. I think if I could probably pick an era of like art and design, it would be like '60s and '70s minimalism. And, I like but then I think of Corbusier, and I don't think he was a minimalist.

It's like, this is such a hard question because it's just, I don't think you can answer that with like a word. I do really respond to things that are like put together nicely, for lack of a better way of saying it. And I don't have anything like super loud. Like I'm looking behind you and you have like a beautiful red shelf and a red pot, and I love that. But if you saw that color, in my— I don't wear that.

And in my stuff, it might be a stripe on something, but I think I wouldn't— like, I'd be like, oh my God, this red pot, it's just too much for me. So yeah, but I have a— there's a green carpet right there, so I don't know what I'm talking about.

Christian Solorzano [56:00]

I've had the pleasure of interviewing many Prolific and very well-known people, Chicago designers on this show, and your name tends to sit alongside a lot of these people. And I'm curious about, when it comes to Chicago, who are some of your inspirations, or who did you look to as either a mentor or as someone that was doing things that kind of created a spark for you?

Alisa Wolfson [56:33]

Yeah, that's such a great question. When I was first coming up as a designer, I sort of forced my way into VSA. I mean, I really didn't have that much experience. I just called and called and called, and I think somehow my call slipped through and Jamie Koval took my call and he let me come in and show him probably my pretty miserable little book.

But I got the job and— or I got a job and I truly loved that era of looking up to those folks like Maria. Grillo was a partner at that point and Jamie and Kurt and Dana. I mean, that kind of dates me a little, but the idea that a really interesting group of designers came out. Of Chicago in that era doing really big, beautiful, global-looking design, I was very enchanted by and still am.

And I just imagine that most people would probably have them on their list. I think the people who I've met who have made the most impact on me personally, somebody like Rick Valicenti, who I'm friendly with and good friends with. And I used to just look at his work and just think, I don't— like, how does his brain even go there? But then I've seen him work. And I mean, he's constant, he's constantly in maker mode. Even when he retires, he's producing.

And I really love that. And, there's just I'm very good friends with Renata Gra, so she's heard me say this before, but I think she's a fabulous designer. I love all of her things, and every time it's my birthday, she comes over with another thing that she's made and, basically gives me one of her samples, and I'm happy as a clam. Yeah, there's been a lot of people along the way who I've known who have made an impact on me from a graphic design standpoint.

And there's also wonderful people who aren't graphic designers. You know?

Christian Solorzano [58:50]

And if you weren't doing any of this, what would you be doing? Was there ever any other pursuit that you wanted to go after in life?

Alisa Wolfson [58:59]

Gosh, I've been thinking a lot about that. No, not since I was a kid. I think I always wanted to do what I'm doing. I just didn't really know what it was. And I remember asking my dad if he knew anyone, and he didn't. My parents weren't connected like that. But he did know somebody who worked for a magazine. So he brought me there one day, and it was like a culinary magazine.

It's not exactly— I don't really want to work in a magazine, but it was kind of interesting to go there. And it was in Chicago. I don't really remember what it was. And I've joked around. I think I came to a dinner with some of my friends. And I said, I think I'm going to be a vintner. My dad was in wine wholesale.

I think when I'm not a graphic designer, or maybe when I am, I'm going to buy a vineyard and I'm going to start producing delicious wine. And I just like made that blanket statement. And then I think it was for my birthday, Renata, I think, brought me a book on natural wine and I read it. And within like the first 3 pages, I'm like, nope, that seems hard. That seems hard. I'm not going to do that. I don't think I have it in me.

So that was a notion. I Said repeatedly that I love talking to people, so perhaps that is an arrow pointing somewhere. I've always thought that maybe I would teach, but I have taught before and it's a lot of work preparing, and I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [60:49]

I don't—

Alisa Wolfson [60:50]

I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's what I would want to do right now. But I do think about it. I'm kind of at that point in my career where I've been working at an agency for so long, and it's like, do I like to do anything else? But we'll see.

Christian Solorzano [61:05]

There's some days where I'll be in a coffee shop and I'll be working on my computer and I see firemen or police and they're getting their drink and they're usually in a group and they're laughing and they're having fun and they're, their hands are dirty. And then I'm there on the computer moving things around and I'm like, man, I wish I could have one of those jobs. But I'm sure if—

Alisa Wolfson [61:27]

Just more physical.

Christian Solorzano [61:28]

Yeah. Like more physical and more things that like repairing doors, that's something we need.

Alisa Wolfson [61:34]

Yeah. They're like, yeah. No, I hear you. And it's funny because sometimes I'm like, I love interior design. Maybe I should be an interior designer. And then you have to deal with like one contractor installing like shelves and you're like, I cannot, how do you people do this? It's so crazy because as a graphic designer, everything's kind of in here and then you have to deal with printers. And I believe that's a very hard part. Or you have to deal with, getting things online.

And that's not as hard, but, kind of like what's in your mind. What's on the paper or what's on the screen, you're in a bit more control of. And I have found that Other forms of design, not so much.

But I'll tell you, I've never had the notion that I wanted to be an artist. And I think that's really funny. People who don't know designers very well will say like, oh, wow, that's so interesting. Did you ever want to be an artist? It's like, no, I absolutely did not. Just the idea that what would I say? I mean, I love getting the information and having a perspective on how it should look. And then giving it back. Yeah, there, it's yours.

Not like, this is my whole body and soul and I want you all to like look at it. I mean, I love art and I love conceptual art especially, and there's been some stuff that I've seen that it's like, God, I wish I did that. But do I? Yeah, as a profession, I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [63:13]

Is there anything that you ever feel you would like to express, but you feel like you don't have either the words or the medium or—

Alisa Wolfson [63:22]

Yeah. Yeah. I— and this is a rabbit hole that I'm not willing to open.

But I wish I were more of the type of person who could express myself politically or be working in that arena so I could add value and make sense of all the bullshit that I think is happening. I'm very lucky that my son wants to go into social services, and I hear him talk and I'm like so inspired. But yeah, I think that would be kind of amazing to have been connected to any kind of political platform and have your work be part of that.

It just seems like a dream. I also, in a weird way, sometimes will see like a poster on the street, and if it has something on it that is really thoughtful, I'll be like, wow, like I would never do that. And I'm so thankful that somebody put that up, but it's just not my— it's just not my thing. I would maybe sketch it on my computer and then it would go into like the junk folder of my computer.

I think I'd rather talk to people one-on-one than have it be confined in a little poster or whatever.

Christian Solorzano [64:44]

Next year with the Design Club, we tend to put out call for submissions for various things. I don't do any personal invitations to anyone ever, but I think I'm going to personally invite you to participate in something that asks to create something that maybe is a little autobiographical or a little bit more personal. So that'll be my offering, like a challenge to you to—

Alisa Wolfson [65:14]

It's funny that you said that because I did, I wouldn't replicate this, but I did a program once, like a summer program at Maine College of Art. Remember? Or did they have those for you? I'm sure I'm way older than you, but at a point in time in graphic design history, Maine College of Art would host these 3-week classes that you could take and apply for. And Lucille Tanazas, whom I love, was teaching one year.

And I applied and I went and I really had a hard time because again, it was all about like making things that said something about you. And I'm so used to people giving me content that like, it really kind of screwed me up because I was like, wait, okay, so I have to be— I'm the person? No one cares? But I remember that very vividly. And then, yeah. I think I did it all about my hair and it was like very crazy, very non-Alisa design.

And I think in one of the corners it just said something like, I take myself wherever I go. And really what that meant for me is like everywhere I am, like if we were sitting at your table right now, I would leave and I'm sure like your dog, there would be like 4 of my hairs on the floor.

Like I just know that like I leave my mark in a weird way. And I loved that project, but it really almost killed me because I just, my brain doesn't think like that, but I will. I will do my best for you.

Christian Solorzano [67:03]

Okay, sounds good.

Alisa Wolfson [67:04]

Since you're making a special—

Christian Solorzano [67:07]

Declaration.

Alisa Wolfson [67:08]

Special public declaration for me. Public declaration for me to do something.

Christian Solorzano [67:13]

Maybe we'll get Rick involved somehow.

Alisa Wolfson [67:14]

Get the Rick machine going. Yeah. Yes, I would come up with ideas and bounce them off Rick. That would be fun because I would say something totally rational and he'd be like, or, it could be pink and bubbly and whatever. And I'd be like, that's— that works.

Christian Solorzano [67:33]

Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you so much again for taking the time to chat. I like I said, I've been wanting to speak with you for a while, and it finally happened. So thank you.

Alisa Wolfson [67:46]

Yeah, I'm so thankful. And I don't— it's like kismet because, I have been kind of on this really weird personal, not working phase. And it was like I got back to work and I'm ready to go again. And I got your email maybe like 2 days later. And it just kind of felt like kismet where I'm like, okay, yes, cool. If you would have asked me a month ago, I might not have said yes because I was not in that.

I was not in a very public-facing place. But now that I've actually walked out of my— of my home and I go to work every day. I was very happy to participate.

Christian Solorzano [68:28]

Cool. Beautiful.

Alisa Wolfson [68:29]

So thank you.

Christian Solorzano [68:29]

Yeah, thank you. And hopefully our paths can cross again.

Alisa Wolfson [68:34]

And yes.

Christian Solorzano [68:36]

And we can keep—

Alisa Wolfson [68:36]

Where do you go? Do you go, do you go out?

Christian Solorzano [68:39]

No, I, I'm not allowed to. I'm like a— okay, ankle monitor situation. Just kidding. Yeah, no, I go out.

Alisa Wolfson [68:46]

I— Yeah, well, maybe if I decide to go out one day, I'll see you.

Christian Solorzano [68:50]

Yeah, I'm in— I live in Oak Park and I work— I have a studio that I work at, a lab, and then I live a 10-minute walk south. Oh, in Oak Park. But then on the weekends, that's usually when I go out to the city and stuff. But mostly, yeah, everything I do tends to be in Oak Park.

Alisa Wolfson [69:11]

I think Oak Park is fabulous, and it's always been on my bucket list to like go do some tours to some beautiful homes there. So, okay, if I ever find myself doing that, I will definitely let.

Christian Solorzano [69:24]

Yes, let me know while the weather is not super brutal, because once it gets cold, you don't want to do that here.

Alisa Wolfson [69:30]

No, I don't. Of course I don't. I try not to leave. Yes. Well, thank you so much, Christian, and I— yeah, have a nice weekend.

Christian Solorzano [69:40]

Thank you so much for tuning in. As always, if you enjoy conversations like these, we appreciate your support when you leave us a rating wherever you listen. To learn more about us, visit www.chicagographicdesign.club. Thank you, and we'll talk to you soon.

Alisa Wolfson [69:58]

Goodbye.