Christian Solorzano [00:05]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a podcast by the Chicago Graphic Design Club dedicated to bringing you conversations with Chicago's creative leaders. On this podcast, we'll explore the craft, theory, and practice of graphic design, plus discuss bold ideas that push the boundaries of what's possible and ways in which we can create a more thoughtful and inclusive community. To learn more about us, visit our website at www.chicagographicdesign.club or find us on social media. Special thanks to the Chicago band Eighties Slang for our theme music.

So hey everyone, today we're going to be doing a very special episode. We've never done this before, and we're going to be spending some time talking about some of this year's highlights. And I'm joined today by some of our committee members, Patrick, John, and Jamie, who are some of the people that are behind the programming that the club does.

So we have a very exciting 2023 ahead of us, but we also want to take a moment to reflect on some of the things that we've accomplished this year and also share some comments from our community. So let's kick off this episode with this question of how was 2022 for you? How was this year for you professionally, personally, club-wise? Yeah, let's talk about 2022.

Patrick Smith [01:45]

I can go first. This is Patrick. 2022, it was an interesting year for me because on a personal/professional level, I am— I've been running my own little shop for about 10 years, and I went and took a full-time job. And then since then, beginning of the year, I have resigned from that full-time job. And so what I kind of learned is, and everybody already kind of knows this, but, agency or company leadership really matters.

And I had a hard time working for some people that I wasn't huge fans of. So I just decided to move on. So that was— it was an interesting experience. Everybody else that I worked with was great and fantastic. So it was nice to collaborate and work on some bigger things this year with that group. But I've since moved on, and I'm enjoying running my own little studio again. And then with the club, there were some really great in-person events.

I think in the beginning of 2022, we Did some agency tours for the first half, kind of as COVID started to dissipate slowly. But, and those were really great. They were great kind of behind-the-scenes events, and it was great to get out and network after a while.

Jaime Cisneros [02:57]

So.

John Hatherly [02:57]

Yeah, definitely. 2022, this is John. 2022 was for me a pretty amazing year, both professionally and personally. I would say it was actually probably the greatest year of my life. So I had some pretty fun branding projects at the agency that I work at that came to fruition, that I got to feel like I really contributed to part of that system and graphic language.

And then just on the personal side, my— I have an artistic practice as well that has been doing really well, and that also informs some of my design work. And so it's been really interesting just to kind of see how those have been interplaying and crossing in and out between each other. But then in terms of the club, I think probably one of my favorite things was going to an open print studio towards the beginning of this year. I'm trying to remember the name. Latitude.

It was called Latitude. And it's an open community resource for printing. And it was just a really beautiful experience because they go into the nitty-gritty of printing, which I don't think a lot of people do anymore. But it was eye-opening just in terms of Thinking about new ways of doing things that aren't just always stuck on a computer all the time and getting to a place where there's a little bit more play in my practice. So that's been really fun this year.

Jaime Cisneros [04:19]

Yeah. And for me, it's Jamie here. For me, 2022 was a lot of new learning going on for me in regards to just my corporate job, where we went from working from home to more of a hybrid schedule. So there's a lot of getting used to with that. Same thing with the club. I like went into different things that I wanted to do and I'm still learning. And I feel like 2022 was a bit challenging at times, but I got through it.

But looking forward to the new, to the new year because I have started to kind of expand my skill sets with me having more time now.

Christian Solorzano [05:09]

And this is Christian, and I guess for me it's been, it's been a combination of— so we're— so this year was our second year into our club, and I think we've, as a community, we've sort of gotten comfortable with what we're doing. And 2022, I think, was the year that I tried to provide offerings that we didn't regularly provide in previous years. So to Patrick's point, we did, we did more studio tours. We had our first guest from overseas, Barnbrook Studio.

And yeah, it's just, it's been a great year just building relationships and trying to keep the community connected. And personally, this year, I think the— if there is one word that I could use to summarize the year, I guess it would be balance. And I think it's just been a lot of me trying to just balance all the different, all the different creative projects that I like to do.

And it's not, it's not very easy, but I feel like every like every month I'm like just dialing in how that whole thing works. So yeah, it's just been a lot of just balance and improvising and trying to figure out how to get things done. So it's been, it's been, it's been a fun year.

John Hatherly [06:42]

Interesting point you brought up about dialing in. I've definitely felt over the years as I quote unquote get older, being from the late 1900s, that idea of dialing in. What were some of the things that you feel like you learned in terms of dialing in? Maybe more about your practice or just how you approach creativity.

Christian Solorzano [07:02]

Yeah, so for me, it's— I try to look at everything that I do as informing everything else. So for instance, I have my writing practice, and that feeds into my design practice, and my design practice informs my writing practice. So I've been— in my mind, I picture just like this web and everything is connected.

And I wanna— I'm always trying to make sure that, yeah, that just everything feels in balance and that I'm not doing too much over here and as a result something over here is suffering. So, and throughout all of that, just Prioritizing like wellness, I think, is like really big, important, like just a big important factor.

So just making— because in 2022, like there was definitely a few moments where I was feeling burnout and I've realized that nothing I do is ever good when it comes from a place of burnout or from being tired or from any of that kind of stuff. So it's just been listening to my body, knowing when I need to sleep, when I need to take a break, when I need to walk away.

And sometimes it's the hardest thing you could do, because I think as a, as a person that likes to do a lot, admitting to yourself that you need to take a break sometimes feels like defeat. And yeah, you just have to— it's that's not true. It's not a defeat. If anything, I think it's a victory to be able to recognize that your body, your mind, all that stuff needs rest and recovery. So I hope that answers your question.

John Hatherly [08:51]

Very much so. I think it actually speaks to what Patrick did earlier this year in terms of kind of holding his own space for what he needed. I remember whenever you did that, I was actually I saw that you had posted something on Instagram and I just, it actually meant something to me too, because I think we all go through that time where we're trying to get things done, where we're trying to be something or achieve something or drive to get somewhere in life or whatever.

But you seem to understand that it was now.

Patrick Smith [09:22]

And for me, it was more like walking away from it was more of just that I was just a Personality conflict more than anything else, where I didn't want to trade my sanity for a paycheck anymore. So, I like, I like being able to— I love what we do, and I love, design and advertising and all things, UX and digital. But it's hard to be creative when you're, when you're not in the mood kind of thing.

So it's better for me to have a, to your point, better headspace. About things and feel good about the things that I'm creating, and not having to worry about some more distorted world that somebody lives in. So I don't wanna make it a, super negative conversation. But yeah, sometimes you just kinda, you gotta walk away. And I'm at a place in my life now too where, I mean, I don't wanna say like I don't need a job.

Everybody needs to, make some money and, pay the bills and stuff like that. But I, I've kind of made a choice that I'm not gonna work for people like that anymore. So I'm a little bit more selective in what I'm doing. And, it's nice to have some of that freedom and flexibility.

John Hatherly [10:32]

So kind of the whole point of this community, right?

Christian Solorzano [10:34]

So as we look into 2023, what are some of the— based on everything that we've learned this year, what are you guys most excited about for the upcoming year? Just as individuals and as our community, what's— what are some things that come to mind?

Jaime Cisneros [10:52]

Well, for me, it's me personally. I've been starting to do more typographic design. So I think I'm gonna— I start— I kicked that off like last week, and I feel like it's a really good like jumping off point for me to kind of go full force into that path going into the new year. So there's new projects, new— or just projects in general that I've been putting off for a really long time.

And now, time has opened up for me where I think I'm going to be able to balance personal projects and work projects pretty good. And at the same time, I'm excited for where the club goes in general. I feel like we've been kind of like leveling Up as we go, adding more things, doing more things with the, with the community, just doing more tours, more talks, book club. So just in general, like looking into the new year, I just want to be more active, I guess.

And somebody's— I think we read, we read this somewhere where they felt like we were just like the walking dead. And I kind of related to that because I was just like going through the motions with like a corporate job and how burnt out I could get because of that.

So now I've gotten this like new, like I've gotten re-energized pretty much, and I'm gonna try to take that into the new year and stay focused as much as possible with everything design, with you guys, me personally, with work.

John Hatherly [12:32]

It's been nice for me getting a little bit more involved with the Design Club towards the end of this year and then looking towards what's coming up next year. I think it aligns with my own personal practice and how I think about community, but it's also nice that I have more time to do it.

And then, yeah, I have a lot of like exhibitions and like personal art projects that are planned, some grants that I'm writing that I'm submitting towards the end of this year because it's the 24th now. Yeah, I'm just— there's so much that I think we're looking forward to.

Patrick Smith [13:12]

Yeah, I'm definitely looking at 20— looking forward to 2023. With the club, it's getting back out and doing more in-person events again. That's what I'm looking forward to. The second half of the year, I got a little bit busy with a full-time schedule, so I couldn't do as much as I wanted to. But so I'm looking forward to that. And kind of like John, I, I've started doing some work off the computer. I'm starting to do some painting.

I've got a space now that I can dedicate to it. And so I'm just enjoying doing some physical things that don't require pixels to make some art. I don't know if it's gonna go anywhere, but I'm just enjoying the process now more than, more than anything, and experimenting a little bit.

Jaime Cisneros [13:55]

So.

Christian Solorzano [13:55]

Yeah, for me it's been— this is a word you like, John— artifact. And something I, I'm— so this past week, these past 2 weeks actually, I've been working on some print, some print work some print design stuff. And I almost forgot how much I love it. I love doing it.

And I think because I work in digital all day, it undermines just how yeah, just how precious holding something in your hand and looking at it and like holding it up to your face and like spinning it and all this stuff is.

So I would like to just do more tactile projects, and I would like the club to be producing and outputting those type of— that type of material, whether it's posters or publications or Whatever it may be, I really want there to be like a physical representations of the things that we do. So yeah, that's what comes to mind. And I think just on a personal level, continuing to explore what balance means and continuing to explore new ideas and meet new people, hear people's stories.

Storytelling is a I think is a big thing that really influences me.

Jaime Cisneros [15:25]

So I feel like balance is gonna be a big thing for the next couple of years for a lot of people.

Christian Solorzano [15:31]

Yeah, because I think it's important to, yes, to have balance, but I also think it's important to hold— well, at least for me, to hold myself accountable and to not— because I think sometimes with balance, I think it's just important to like define what balance means to you, to like the individual, because it could be— I think we're like, as people, we're so—

Jaime Cisneros [15:59]

It's—

Christian Solorzano [15:59]

We're very— it's very easy to fool ourselves and to sometimes think that we've achieved balance when we really didn't. So yeah, that's what I think of. So we did ask a— we did ask our community a few questions not too long ago, and we do want to share some of those responses. And I want to start off with a poll that we asked on Instagram.

We asked a series of 3 questions, and the reason why we asked this is because I think as a community it's important to hear from others. And as a community, I always try to make sure that we're not becoming like this echo chamber, like this bubble that just is just based around like a select few number of people's like ideas and concepts and whatnot. So I'm gonna read some of these, some of these answers.

So one of the questions that we asked was, what are you looking forward to in 2023? So someone said to unleash. So their answer was to unleash my full potential. Someone said, Nick Adams said, he said more growth. Heather Snyder Quinn said in-person human connections. Nicolette said work-life balance. Jeffrey said in-person and virtual events, maybe more collaborations. Jamie, you're here. You said growing your typographic portfolio. My friend Anna said a regular decent income that would allow me to go to Chicago.

Derek said more time to travel. Cheryl said continuing to grow my freelance business. And Ivan said, I am looking forward to seeing how the novelty around AI and generative Our ethics will play out. So I think that's a pretty good selection of answers. So I guess now that I read them, I guess let's open it up and discuss them a little bit. What do you guys think about those answers or anything that came up for you?

John Hatherly [18:17]

Seems like some themes of balance and the fear of AI.

Christian Solorzano [18:21]

Yeah. And the need for a human connection, I think, is and just growth in general.

Jaime Cisneros [18:31]

It's always good, it's a lifelong thing. So growth is always there.

Christian Solorzano [18:37]

And then another question that we asked was, how did you grow as a designer in 2022? Nick said, I had my first time experience. I had many first-time experiences and shared them with my team. Someone else said that they started their degree. Someone else said, I slowed way down to grow more intentionally. Someone said, I started a freelance design business. Another answer, learned from my peers and attended great community events. I got a— I got a new job and worked on my digital painting skills.

I became more confident in myself. And the last answer is, I think I realized that if I want to get critical about certain tech, then it is time to get technical. And then the last one, there's one more actually. And it was, I started believing in myself and what I bring to the table as a creative.

John Hatherly [19:38]

So inspiring.

Christian Solorzano [19:39]

Yeah, I like that. I really like the answer of slowing down to grow more intentionally. And I think that's like sort of summarizes what I was mentioning earlier. And that's what I've been working through is like precision and more. Yeah, exactly.

John Hatherly [19:59]

That was my resolution last year. It's actually part of the reason why I kind of walked away a bit from the Design Club from this past year was I was going way too fast. It was affecting quality. You could see it.

Christian Solorzano [20:14]

Yeah, I think it's important to just have that awareness. And I think it comes from being honest with yourself, I think. Yeah, because I think so often we— it's easy to say, to just sign up for things and just, yes, of course I could do it. Of course I could do it. And then for myself, sometimes I'm like, well, that means that I have to do it. Yeah, and the doing it part is not always the most like glamorous or interesting.

It's like laying in bed, like in the dark on your computer, you're tired.

Jaime Cisneros [20:57]

Yeah, I guess like learning how to say no to certain things is tough for people. And to go back to what this person said, slow way down, or yeah, slow way down to grow more intentionally, that person probably had to say no to a couple of other things in order to like focus on whatever they were doing. So yeah, I sometimes have a hard time with saying no because I feel bad, but sometimes you have to.

Christian Solorzano [21:27]

Yeah, I mean, I wish I could say no to more things, but I've learned in my life that Saying yes has helped me so much, but it's like a double-edged sword because in return, it's yeah, there's just consequences to that. But when I, when I was starting out in the design community, and this was like 10 years ago I used to say yes to everything. And as a result, that opened so many doors for me.

And a lot of, even this club today, a lot of that is informed by all of those yeses that I said. So I don't know. I'll, I'll see how— and maybe that's just my way of saying, I have a really hard time saying no. And I'm just fooling myself.

Jaime Cisneros [22:27]

Yeah, I mean, it's another thing where you could say yes and just like absolutely like kill every project that you're working on. But some, like most of the time, it's, I'm like John where something starts to like mess up and you're like, all right, I have to step back.

Patrick Smith [22:43]

I'm with you. I think more often than not, yes does lead to positive things. However, there is a point where you start getting some diminishing returns and for whatever reason, socially, saying yes has brought me a lot of benefit on the business side or the creative side.

Saying yes to things has been— there's been a lot more negative attached to it, just because you start agreeing to do things that aren't necessarily in your sweet spot at all, because you're trying to, make a client happy, or there's money, attached to something. And also it starts taking down a different road than maybe you originally intended. So it's just kind of just being aware and conscious of what you're saying yes or no to. So anyway.

Christian Solorzano [23:31]

Yeah, but I, but I do think that I like what— I like that you said that because I definitely say no to things that I feel like don't— that won't bring some sort of value or like benefit to either like myself or to others. So I guess I do say no pretty regularly. But I think what helps, what helps me is if you like when I have that, like those values or that foundation to which, to which that the values and foundation that inform my decision.

So for example, like I will say yes if those things align to these characteristics or values or whatever. So I, and I, and I think that's, I think it's sometimes it's important to have that.

To be able to like make those informed yeses or nos and to not go so much off like just based off your gut, like what your gut is telling you, or like what you're— well, that I feel like that goes counterintuitive to a lot of the advice that we get, which is to listen to your gut. But I don't know, I found that just being able to point my decisions to something else usually results in some sort of benefit.

And then we asked another question, and this question that we asked our community was, how did we support you in 2022? And some people said, you helped provide greater insight into practices of my peers and folks I'm inspired by. Someone said, with positive vibes. Someone else said it was a space to meet all kinds of designers in Chicago. More typographic events and tours with a lot of insights and community shared knowledge.

And someone else said, oh my gosh, having the community to fall back on and ask advice has been so helpful.

John Hatherly [25:38]

That's actually the Discord that everyone seems to be talking through. That's actually been a giant resource. I think it was originally Slack, but Discord, that's been a sleeper for me personally. I'm a bit of a lone wolf maybe, and so having that connection on a daily, just in my— as I'm sitting at my computer and it's on, I can jump in and out of it whenever I want to. That's been a big— Help for me.

Christian Solorzano [26:06]

Yeah.

Patrick Smith [26:08]

I love it just because if we go to an event, you can kind of just, if I check in on it every day, kind of see what people are up to. And it's a lot easier just to, connect with people at events once you kind of know a little bit about what they do and what they've been up to. It's kind of, it's kind of fun.

So, and it's great when people have got, questions about their career or, they show work, their work Something they're working on and they want feedback. So those are, those are really fun posts.

Christian Solorzano [26:36]

Yeah, I think I'm— I also find a lot of value in the Discord. It really reminds me of when I was a teenager and I used to go in like design chat rooms or just chat rooms in general, and like you would just meet like friends and connect around like a specific artist or like band or whatever. That's what it reminds me of.

And that's like one of the reasons why I like really like it is because I feel like it's a nice little— it's like a Yahoo chat room from like the early 2000s. So yeah, I also find a lot of, a lot of value in that. And yeah, unfortunately we had to, we had to, we were on Slack and we had to, we had to make the transition over to Discord because Slack was gonna be charging us.

A lot of money because apparently Slack is just more for business and they're essentially telling us we're gonna charge you because you're getting all these business services that I was like, we don't use any of these. Like we're not doing big file sharing or connecting to like Asana or like other third parties. So, but yeah, Discord has been great.

Patrick Smith [27:47]

They got bought by Salesforce, so that's why there's all these changes?

Christian Solorzano [27:51]

So Oh, Salesforce.

Patrick Smith [27:53]

Yeah, so there you go.

Christian Solorzano [27:55]

It's always Salesforce. Well, I heard Salesforce is offering to buy us, so just kidding.

Patrick Smith [28:04]

That dollar amount of—

John Hatherly [28:07]

What kind of funding do we get with that?

Christian Solorzano [28:09]

Well, we have to change our name where it will be called just the Design Club.

Jaime Cisneros [28:14]

Design Club.

Christian Solorzano [28:15]

We'll be called Design Trademark.

Patrick Smith [28:19]

That's it.

Christian Solorzano [28:20]

All right, so let's go into— we sent out a survey not too long ago where we basically— the intention behind the survey was to get people to get— for us to get inspired and to collect some feedback from what our community is saying around a wide range of questions that we asked. And there's 2 questions in particular that I feel like we owe it to the community to share with.

And also, I think it'll just be good to, as a team, to discuss some of these answers. So we ask, do you have any thoughts that you would like to share with us on how you would like to see the Chicago design community improve, or how could the design community advance, or just, be more inclusive. So we got a wide range of answers from people, and I have them here in front of me.

So one of the first answers that we got was around this idea of doing more portfolio showcases and art shows, which I think is it's pretty interesting. We have a port— well, we kind of have a portfolio showcase on our website, but it's where we ask people to submit a poster that uses the official typeface of the City of Chicago, Big Shoulders. And it's an 11 by 17 poster where the designer has to answer the question of what does Chicago mean to them?

So we have this little digital webpage like on our community, on our website, and it's a digital gallery that showcases this collection of submissions, which I think is good, and I think it's great, and it gives people like visibility and awareness into other designers and what they think of Chicago. But I totally see a lot of value in taking this a step further and doing some art show and exhibiting, whether it's these posters or something else, in a space.

And I think galleries are always great, meeting points for conversation and ideas. So I really like this answer, and I think it's certainly something that I would like to see us as a group move forward with.

Jaime Cisneros [30:55]

Yeah, there's, in my opinion, there's definitely room to do something here. You just talking about the posters, in my head I was like, we could like print everybody's posters out and just like showcase them in a space, and at the same time have like a couple of people like showcasing their portfolios like on the table next door to whatever we're trying to like showcase our— on the club's behalf, pretty much, and like make it like a— make it into like a small event. Nothing crazy.

But yeah, that there's endless possibilities to this. It's a great idea.

Christian Solorzano [31:34]

Someone else said— I mean, we got several answers related to networking, career development, which I think is always going to be, a common theme that will, as long as design is a profession, it'll always be something that we could most certainly do. And I know that other organizations like AIGA, they tend to do a lot of programming around career development. And I think they do a good job at that to an extent.

So perhaps, yeah, we should definitely consider doing something like this because I know when the Design Club was created, it was in a way a response to a lack of events around like the craft theory and practice of graphic design. And there was never really like a theme of that was never really to include like the heads down, like career developments, resume, interviewing, that kind of stuff. So I think there might be some value in incorporating some of that programming. What do you guys think?

Patrick Smith [32:52]

Yeah, I think it's a big mystery for people, especially early in your career. You don't know what you're supposed to put on there half the time, or if you do, it's, you're Googling something and, copying that. So I think getting people to figure out their own voice and being able to position themselves as, the solution for someone that's looking for a hire is— there's nothing but positive things that can come out of that.

So, and on the flip side of it, as someone who does get endless amount of resumes sent to them on a weekly basis, I probably get a dozen or 2 dozen every week. It's— they all start to look the same after a while. So it's— I think anything you could do to kind of help differentiate yourself as a— through one of these workshops would be a positive thing.

John Hatherly [33:40]

Yeah, to your point, Patrick, the idea of voice in the creative professions, for me, I'm looking for people who don't have the same resume as everyone else. So they maybe are looking at it from a different angle than this is exactly how it should be done to get through the ATS, keyword systems of some gigantic corporation.

Or is it more about aligning their own values like we've been talking about to their creative output, so that their career going forward is the best for them personally, not just professionally?

Christian Solorzano [34:11]

Agreed. Yeah, there's someone in our Discord community, actually, and I think that their resume and their website is really interesting because it sort of like goes against what a lot of traditional portfolio websites look like. And they had posted that one of their objectives is to create like a new design aesthetic similar to the way that like David Carson's like did in like the 1990s.

And I think to your point is like, how could we— How could we as an organization help reframe the way that the traditional portfolio and resume and career trajectory looks like? So I definitely think there's a lot of value in that, and perhaps there could be an interesting spin that we could take on it. Yeah, I like that. I like that. I like these answers. And someone else, another answer. There's like a few similar answers to the question around just more in-person things.

So things like museum days or attending art shows together. Someone suggested that we do like a big snowball fight, which I think is an excellent idea. So certainly things where I feel like there's no agenda. We're just getting together and we're getting together in the space and we're just going with whatever it is that we're doing, whether it's an art show or we're going out for dinner or having a snowball fight.

I think there's— it doesn't always have to be about like just design, talking about design.

Jaime Cisneros [36:17]

Yeah, I've said this before, it's always, it's always fun talking about other stuff other than design, like getting to know John or Patrick and what they do. I've done that at events and that's fun for me. Not always talking about like design, but—

Christian Solorzano [36:34]

How dare you say that, Jamie? It's always design.

Jaime Cisneros [36:39]

It is.

Patrick Smith [36:40]

Take that back.

Jaime Cisneros [36:42]

I take it back.

John Hatherly [36:45]

Just kidding.

Christian Solorzano [36:46]

No, I agree.

Jaime Cisneros [36:47]

Oh man.

Christian Solorzano [36:49]

And then I— John, I think you were gonna say something.

John Hatherly [36:52]

I just—

Patrick Smith [36:53]

I—

John Hatherly [36:53]

The snowball fight is really it's really resonating with me personally as a way to resolve some conflict in the community.

Jaime Cisneros [37:01]

Oh my God.

John Hatherly [37:04]

But also curious to see what everyone's snowball designs are.

Jaime Cisneros [37:07]

I didn't like that critique.

Christian Solorzano [37:09]

Let's critique each other.

Jaime Cisneros [37:11]

That's hilarious.

Christian Solorzano [37:12]

It's funny. That would actually be an interesting thing to do is like, let's design snowballs and let's talk about, let's talk about them.

John Hatherly [37:20]

New aesthetic snowball. This is the Bauhaus snowball.

Christian Solorzano [37:24]

Mine's square. Mine is a Modernist.

John Hatherly [37:30]

I use Midjourney to create mine.

Jaime Cisneros [37:34]

Oh my God.

Patrick Smith [37:35]

It becomes product design. We're all like shaping the snowball to match our fingers and.

Christian Solorzano [37:43]

Mine is about the ergonomics.

Patrick Smith [37:45]

It's about balance. Yeah, about balance. Exactly.

Christian Solorzano [37:51]

But yeah, we're in the— we're in wintertime, so I feel like right now is the time to do it. So, Certainly, you should look into that. And then, so to that point, someone else, there's a few answers around community engagement. How could we crowdsource ideas or find ways to engage the community and help them, have some part of the development process to what we do?

And then, and then something you mentioned, Jon, was Rather than just pushing content, or, I hate to use this term, but rather than like talking at people, but doing more of that like reciprocity of how could we, how could it be like a 2-way street where everyone that is involved is sort of giving and taking?

John Hatherly [38:44]

I think there's some interesting space just in terms of agency and creative output for community. For those ideas that come from everybody, but also the participation too. Yeah, the community doesn't exist with a handful of people doing their hardest to create awesome ideas and thoughts. I think it comes from everybody getting involved.

Christian Solorzano [39:07]

And then another— and something else that we as a club, we've never really gotten too much into, which is UX design, user experience design. But there's a few comments around, could we, introduce more programming around UX design, which I think you can't escape UX design. It's everywhere, and a lot of it is informed by— it's made possible through graphic design, through the visuals. So I think it's something that we could definitely explore as a club, particularly like the ethics of UX design.

I know that there's a lot of dark patterns that take advantage of people's, yeah, that could be advantageous to corporations and whatnot. So I think just Again, like just questioning like the ethics and like just the moral implications of UX design could be a nice way to like thread in our lens of like theory, craft, and practice. I saw, I was reading on LinkedIn that there's like, I get these emails all the time. I don't know if you guys do, but it's like they're from recruiters.

And they look like they're straight up spam. Sometimes some of them like look a little bit real. And there's been, there's been some people that have been like falling prey to those, to those LinkedIn job postings and have gone through like the whole process of like getting hired and like they're interviewed and they're getting onboarded and like everything.

And once they're in the job, they're asked to make like a Bitcoin purchase or to do something like the crypto space, and then it's there's just like this whole like market of people that are just taking advantage of what's happening right now in the tech world, for instance, with all the layoffs, and it's scary, and I think a big part of that is like.

User experience, like where there, these entities are taking advantage of people through good user experience of a nice personalized long email, an onboarding process. You interview with someone with a friendly face. And then, yeah, there's, there, I feel like just that alone could be, could be like a nice point of discussion for like an event or something.

Patrick Smith [41:57]

Yeah, that's pretty dark stuff. Something to go down. So it sounds like a whole industry dedicated to preying on people who just lost their jobs, or whatever the case may be. You're just looking for a new job. That's terrifying.

Christian Solorzano [42:11]

And then there, there's a, there's a comment about just more behind-the-scenes type of programming. So I think some of the studio tours that we've done talk a little bit about the process behind projects. All the moving parts. I personally find a lot of value in that, and specifically value that I could bring back to like my day job. It's always just either like reassuring or inspiring to see other people's process and how they approach like a deliverable or like a problem statement and whatnot.

So I think that's something that we could continue to explore, and perhaps there's like other ways that we could do this. Maybe they don't always have to be studio tours. So workshops, people also want to see workshops, which I personally love workshops. We've done, I think my favorite, one of my favorite workshops that we did was actually last year. And it was the manifesto workshop, the Hot Design Manifesto Summer Workshop. That was really cool to get people together to design a manifesto.

And I think the manifesto has always been— well, manifestos have always really fascinated me, and the idea of coming together to concoct our own Our own manifesto is always interesting. So I would love to do more of that where people could walk away with something that could, yeah, inform and shape their practice, I think is always interesting. But at the same time, it doesn't always need to be like profound or deep like that.

We could also do like, a lettering workshop or— and that's something that I'm currently trying to explore for like the new year is Chicago has a great number of really talented craftspeople, and that are great at what they do when it is in regards to lettering, to poster design, typography, prints, coding. So it'd be great if we could. Yeah, if we could do that. And that's and that's actually.

It wouldn't be great if we could do that because that is something that I'm planning for the club to do in 2023. So for anyone that's listening, stay tuned for that because that'll be new and I think it'll be a great avenue for what we love to do, design. And then there was another common theme that was present in our and people's answers, and it was around like just the business of design.

And just to be a little bit more precise, the answer specifically said that they want to see dialogues or forums that bridge design and industry. Oftentimes great design seems like it's the first thing cut from a budget. So that's obviously business related, and also the value of design, I think, is a big component of that. How could we— and I think specifically, the last— because of the pandemic, I think a lot of businesses saw the importance of great design, because it's now how people are shopping.

It's how people are, paying their bills and everything is most like, you can pretty much do just about everything on your phone now. So great design is gonna be what's gonna get you customers and get people to be loyal to your brand and all that stuff. I hate those words, but it's the truth.

John Hatherly [46:19]

I do feel like there's, it's become so ubiquitous design in culture now that it's expected. Who you are.

Christian Solorzano [46:27]

Yeah. And it's like, it's become, I don't even think it's like, I think the, like the different, like before I felt like the differentiator was good design, like just having an experience that someone could interact with. It's like easy to use and frictionless, but I think the bar has now gotten higher. And now it's no longer about having a website and having the bare minimum.

Now it's about, for example, I have a family member and they do— they're in the business of— they sell, they manufacture and sell office furniture to like schools and movie theaters and just commercial spaces. And everything's always been through word of mouth. And that's how their relationships are built. And now his clients are asking him to provide them with AR, representation of the product in their space. And now he has to do that.

He needs— like, it's no longer about, here's my catalog, you could get this chair. Now it's like, I want to see it. I want to see 50 of them. In my classroom, and I want to see them in 3 colors, and I want it, this week. And he's like, holy crap, I've never— I never thought about doing that. And his competitors are doing that now.

And so I think, yeah, I think to that point, I think the value of design and like ways that we could I guess just push design or advance it, or I don't know, I don't know what the word would be, but like rethink it or like recontextualize it to—

John Hatherly [48:21]

Just in terms of community and this idea of user experience, user experience designers make good money. They're on larger teams, typically on large organizations that have a lot of money. And I'm wondering just as a community if those types of services Whether it's high-end typographic design or user experience design, how we could provide more access to this sort of ways of doing for larger numbers of people who don't typically have that kind of access.

Christian Solorzano [48:52]

So, well, what could you— could you give an example of like just what that would look like?

John Hatherly [48:57]

I guess for me is we talked a little bit about some sorts of ideas around this, and it's just something I've always or not always, but I've been thinking about for a long time of how to kind of create an— in my head it's like an agency, but it's a community-based agency. So I think that there's just— there's a lot of talk around career paths and trying to do work that people like to do.

And I think a lot of that comes to who you want to work with and how you want to do that. And I think that the internet and Web3 and a lot of the digital technologies that are coming out around now are enabling people to rethink how they value things and how they make money.

Christian Solorzano [49:40]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think there's like a really big— I feel like there's a really big gap between, if we're talking about like salary or just like money in general, I think Product design is certainly regarded as, and the way I see it in like job descriptions and like just in the job market is like product design is always regarded as like superior to like graphic design, like just being like a graphic designer.

And I think, and then sometimes in those product design spaces, like the graphic design components of it Isn't as like—

Patrick Smith [50:28]

It's—

Christian Solorzano [50:28]

I, and this might be a controversial thing to say, but I sometimes experience that the graphic design part almost is like an accessory to like the UX, like to the product design components of it.

So I would like to find ways to I don't know, open up the conversation for like, what is the integration of, what's the intersection of like a great product design and then like the beauty and like the things that we love about graphic design, which is like, the letter spacing and like the kerning and like all that stuff.

And how could we fuse the two so that it's I don't know, so that there's more, so that there's more, I guess, like more diversity in like the kind of product experiences that we experience with. For example, like I've been, I drove inside, like I had an Uber like not too long ago and it was a Tesla and it was my first time being in a Tesla and they're great cars from the, like they, they're beautiful cars.

Like as the object is beautiful from like the exterior and all that stuff. But then when I went inside of it felt like it was so soulless because the interface was just— it looked like— it just looked like Helvetica, like just some sans-serif typeface. Everything was white on black, and it was just like very utility.

And I don't know, I just think there's more like that type of design, like that simple, clean, minimal type of graphic design is when it's regarded as like a standard or like it is just like the standard in our culture. I just wish that there was more willingness to like go beyond that standardization of graphic design and product design, if that makes sense.

Patrick Smith [52:37]

So what I think too with the Tesla, if you're inside of one, you're— it's almost like you're inside an appliance rather than— yes, inside a car. So I don't think the experience of driving is different than it would be if it was a— I'm making this up— like a 1964, Mustang or something like that where you can feel everything move.

Christian Solorzano [52:57]

But anyway, yeah. That's a great analogy. It feels like you're in an appliance because I love that.

John Hatherly [53:04]

It does. It doesn't feel like it's intended for humans.

Christian Solorzano [53:06]

Yeah.

Patrick Smith [53:09]

Well, in the future, when they're self-auto, they're, automated driving, which the future isn't that far out, that's, probably what they're sort of prepping for in some way, shape, or form.

Christian Solorzano [53:21]

But all right, so we're almost, we're almost, we're almost at time. But Before we wrap up, I just want to quickly just go over some of the few other things that people mentioned around like additional things that they want to see. And representation and visibility continues to, I think, with any community success, how can we just be a community that's like representing the community of Chicago and provide people with like visibility of real people?

So like this person's answer was invite more people that don't look like you at all and be patient with those that may struggle. I think that's crucial. That's really important. And another thing that I really want to note is someone had mentioned finding volunteers that can commit to driving events and programming. Definitely, we're community-led or volunteer-led, and for the people that are listening, this is, this is some of the people that are involved as of right now. We're— we don't make any profits.

So what we do is really out of, passion and, yeah, just love for building community. So I'll always be encouraging people to contribute and to get involved, and our doors are always open for that. So.

So please reach out if you, if you're interested. And then, and then I guess the last thing that I'll say is this comment here, which is to just be kinder. I think kindness has almost become like this buzzword that has, I think, sometimes almost like lost its meaning because it's like used so much. So how could we just continue to have kindness be something that's like this fire that is always on and not, and that we're actively lighting and not just like plugged into the wall.

I guess that's what I would compare it to. It's like, how could, how could kindness be a bonfire instead of a light bulb?

John Hatherly [55:27]

Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [55:29]

You need to feed the fire, whereas a light bulb, you just leave it on and 2 different experiences. Any thoughts on that last comment there?

John Hatherly [55:40]

Definitely for me. I've meditated on kindness for a long time. For me, it's love. When you say be kind or to be kind, it's a verb. You do it. You don't feel it. So I think that love, it's not a state of being, it's an action. And so to that point, this idea of community is just another expression of love that I think that we all have.

For the people that we've met in this city, the experiences in design that we've had that have shaped who we are as human beings. And I think that we feel an obligation through that love of shared community to try to drive it and make it the best version that it can be.

Christian Solorzano [56:20]

I like that.

Jaime Cisneros [56:22]

That was perfect, John. Yeah. I like that too.

Patrick Smith [56:24]

Got the soundbite for this episode right there.

Jaime Cisneros [56:29]

That's a— That was lovely.

Patrick Smith [56:31]

That's great.

Jaime Cisneros [56:32]

That's nice.

John Hatherly [56:32]

It's just, there's a lot of love in this community. I've seen design in a lot of different cities in the world, and they're all great. But for me, the community in Chicago is what makes Chicago design Chicago design. And I've seen it from when the Bauhaus, the new Bauhaus came over, and it was all community-driven through the different iterations throughout the decades. That sort of commitment to grassroots community is the thing that ties what Chicago design is to me, to what defines it. So I'm here.

Christian Solorzano [57:06]

I like that. I like that answer. And I think that that's, for me, if there's a call to action from your response, is that all of us that are here and people that are listening and just people in our community, just in general in Chicago, we all have an opportunity to have, yeah, to make some impact, to like, there, there's a role that all of us have. We all have some power to, yeah, to manifest and to bring things into the world.

So that just that reminder alone always keeps me motivated and inspired. And I did, and I said a few weeks ago, like in some interview that I did, I said, if it's not you that's doing it, who else? Who will do it? You can't wait for other people's permission or for other people to hold the door open for you. We got to do that.

Patrick Smith [58:05]

So—

John Hatherly [58:05]

And the door's wide open here.

Christian Solorzano [58:07]

Yeah. Well, I once said we don't even have a door.

Patrick Smith [58:11]

No barriers.

John Hatherly [58:14]

I'm excited to see what this community does in 2023.

Christian Solorzano [58:18]

Anything else? Any other— anything, Patrick, Jamie, before we head out?

Patrick Smith [58:22]

Really quick, I was gonna think of a few things from 2022 that may have been a missed opportunity. And if anybody out in the community sees an opportunity like this again, please post it in the Discord. And what I'm referring to is that Cook County flag competition that was earlier in the year. I don't know if you guys remember this.

Jaime Cisneros [58:42]

Yep, I do.

Patrick Smith [58:44]

It's, I think the club could help tremendously with opportunities like that to make the world around us a better place. I think, I forget who won that competition.

Jaime Cisneros [58:56]

I think it was like an elementary student.

Patrick Smith [59:00]

Yeah, I mean, it's a shame because the, not to take anything away from an elementary student, but this flag's a big deal. You know what I mean? And it's so permanent. And things like that where we can, where we can maybe contribute to the common good or public spaces would be a huge thing. So if anybody sees competitions or call for artists or things along those lines, definitely share those resources.

Christian Solorzano [59:31]

We have, so for anyone that wants to get involved, if you just visit our website, that's where there's a link to our Discord, our events, our podcast. We have some articles, ways to get involved. So website is sort of like the hub for all of that. And yeah, to Patrick's point, let's share resources with one another. That's why we're here, to make, to bring awareness, to bring, to make resources accessible, and not to gatekeep anything. So Awesome. All right.

Well, thank you all for joining this episode and for the people that were, that are listening. I hope that you enjoyed it. This is our first time doing something with multiple people. So I hope it turns out good.

Jaime Cisneros [60:22]

Yeah.

Patrick Smith [60:24]

All right.

Jaime Cisneros [60:25]

See you guys. All right.