Christian Solorzano [00:34]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and on today's episode I speak with Andrea Villasenor, a graphic designer at the Newberry Library here in Chicago.

During our conversation, she shares with us her love for the library going back to her childhood, and we speak about the materials and the analog process that went into a lot of the work that she surrounds herself with, both at the library and as an enthusiast and lover of Chicago graphic design history, typography, and so much more. She also shares with us her approach to teaching and the ways that she talks to her students about self-discovery and process.

It's a rich conversation full of insight that covers aesthetics, Chicago community, history, and theory, craft, and practice. Andrea also shares her thoughts on graphic design's ability to be a driver of culture. So as always, enjoy the conversation and we'll talk soon. How's it going, Andrea? How are you doing today? Good.

Andrea Villasenor [01:49]

It's going well. So I've gotten a lot of stuff on my to-do list done, so I'm excited about that.

Christian Solorzano [01:55]

Great. I was talking with a friend this weekend and I was sharing with him that I was going to record this episode with you today. And he asked me how I go about choosing my guests. And I mentioned that there's no, there's no specific methodical plan. It just kind of like, it just kind of happens intuitively.

And for this episode I reached out because one, I, I've been seeing your name online for a very long time, but then also we've been running into each other 3 times, just randomly out in the wild in the— over the span of like 2 weeks. And so here we are.

Andrea Villasenor [02:39]

Well, there's been a lot of great stuff happening in the city, and I don't think that's a coincidence that folks like you and I have, tried to be a part of it. So the event at the Harold Washington Library looking at their special collections materials was super cool to get a little bit of a behind-the-scenes peek at what they have there and meet some of the librarians. And then I have to say the Brian Eno film was just amazing.

So I've been trying to learn more and more about AI and how it's going to be impacting our creative fields. A lot of what you hear is negative stuff. You hear, how it's going to kill creativity and take people's jobs and all of that. And it was really inspiring to see somebody put it to a use where it became a creative tool in their hands, and they were using it to enhance their creative experience and the experience of all the audience members. So—

That was, that was really encouraging. I really enjoyed that.

Christian Solorzano [04:07]

Yeah. So you enjoyed the Eno documentary?

Andrea Villasenor [04:10]

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I saw it was by Gary Hustwit. And Helvetica is my favorite movie ever. So how could I not go?

Christian Solorzano [04:23]

Yeah. Yeah, I like the film. So I'm a big Brian Eno fan. And I love the film, but I wasn't too fond of the whole generative AI component of it because knowing that every screening is different did make me feel like I'm missing out of potentially other footage that I probably would have enjoyed maybe even more than what I got a chance to see.

So I'm a little bit conflicted with it because I'm like, Why not just show us everything or release like a miniseries or a really long documentary?

Andrea Villasenor [05:02]

Yeah, I wish there had been an option to watch it like twice in a row so that you could kind of get some of that experience and see some things differently to see how the AI combined things. In sort of random ways. But I think the content was really kind of appropriate for that sort of approach. There was so much of it, and jumping back and forth in time didn't seem to be disruptive. It was really interesting.

My hope is that at some point he will make available a version where, maybe users who buy it or stream it or consume it in some way can create their own experience with the clips. We can, we can generate our own sequence of what we want to see, or let it randomize it for us. So it'll be unique for us each time we, each time we play it for ourselves or our friends. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [06:15]

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. So hopefully soon. And then we also saw each other at the paper show a day before Eno. What'd you think of the paper show?

Andrea Villasenor [06:25]

Oh, it was fabulous. I used to go to them like every year when they would hold them. And it's always, it's always interesting to see what people are creating. Paper samples are some of the most wonderfully produced materials that we get to do as designers. So seeing how people have approached showing off the paper and the printing and special production techniques is really inspiring.

So I brought home a big bag of stuff for myself and my colleagues, so that we can kind of savor that experience, that tactile enjoyment of paper and print, and just get some ideas for future pieces if we get to create something fancy.

Christian Solorzano [07:24]

So let's talk a little bit about you. I want to know how you got into the world of graphic design, and maybe walk us through your journey up until Today you're a designer at the Newberry Library. How, how'd you get into graphic design?

Andrea Villasenor [07:42]

So in college, I started as an art major, and I also liked English, so I added that, and I also like philosophy, so I added that. So I was a triple major in college. To get all of those done in 4 years I ended up taking some classes over the summer, and I took a class in commercial art, and I really enjoyed it. So after I graduated, I took a year's worth of classes just specifically in commercial art, graphic design, visual communications.

Ended up getting a job doing keyline and paste-up, which is no longer a thing. It's what you would do with InDesign, but you would do it on a light table with a T-square and an X-Acto knife, cutting up galleys of type and laying out pages. So I got some interesting hands-on experience doing that. I was working for a guy in Champaign, Illinois. Who literally had a printing museum in his basement and his barn.

So he had a linotype machine in his barn, and then some monotype equipment in his basement. He had a phototypozitor, so doing type photographically, like exposing film and doing it a letter at a time for posters. So I got some really interesting insight into some of the stuff that was no longer being used in the industry, but it was inspiring to see the different kinds of technologies.

So when everything became available on a desktop computer, it just seemed like a natural extension of the progress of technology. And so it was kind of fun to see some of the tools on screen that had names that related to their traditional tools, like Photoshop tools like Dodge and Burn.

Nobody knows really what that means. Unless you're a nerdy photographer and you have worked with some of those traditional techniques. So it's been kind of fun. So I think I've been fortunate to be in this industry over this time period because it's changed so much, and it's there's like never a dull moment. So I ended up having a lot of interesting experiences like that, and then worked for several different kinds of companies.

So from the small design studio in Champaign to typesetting companies up here in Chicago, to large corporation, worldwide corporate environment, and then small entrepreneurial companies, and finally here at the Newberry at a cultural institution. So I've had a pretty wide variety of experiences with those different entities that I've ended up working for.

Christian Solorzano [11:36]

Yeah, and it's interesting that you're at the Newberry Library learning about how you have a passion for both English and graphic design, because libraries, I mean, that I feel like it's at the intersection of like both of those things, writing and design. So I guess my question is, what do libraries mean to you? And do you feel like you have a heightened sense of appreciation for Libraries.

Andrea Villasenor [12:04]

Yeah, there's a children's book that I read where the kids were like locked in the library for the night. I was like, yes, that would be my dream, just to be locked in a library with all these books and have them all to myself. So yeah, working at the Newberry is a really great experience in that respect. So I have all of these wonderful resources. At my fingertips. We're not the typical library. We have rare materials.

Being able to walk down the hall and call up an illuminated manuscript because I needed— Some sort of a reference for some marketing material I was creating for an exhibition.

That's— that is like a daily experience, and that's something that most people will never get to do. So yeah. It's helped me really learn a lot more about the field that I'm in. So I've been able to see books that were printed by Aldus. Look at that type and see how the ink hits the page and how the letter forms were spaced because they're working with physical pieces of type.

No, you can't, you can't kern things the way we can do now. There were actual, solid pieces of lead and to make stuff look good on the page, they added space. Because you couldn't, well, you could, but it would be difficult. The guy that I worked for in Champaign, he had a saw in the basement with his metal type, and he would kern his own letter combinations by sawing off bits of lead. Yeah, you have to be committed to what you're doing to yeah.

Christian Solorzano [14:14]

And you're also an educator. You teach design. And I'm curious to learn about what your— what are your sentiments around— because I mean, I love analog and I love the physicality of making with your hands, but I do feel a fear that the appreciation for those things, for those materials, is slowly just disappearing because of everything digital today. So do you feel hopeful, or like, do you, do you have any concern around old technology and it soon being forgotten about? What are your thoughts with that?

Andrea Villasenor [14:53]

It's interesting because I've discovered so many things working at the Newberry, lots of different beautiful examples of printing that have been done with old technologies. And one of the things that I found particularly interesting was wood type.

So we've got some wonderful examples of that in our collection, and I've actually gone to both the Hamilton Wood Type and Printing Museum in Wisconsin for a workshop, and then I went last summer to a place that's similar, that's right outside Venice in Italy, and did a 2-week workshop on wood type over there. Truly amazing experience, and that's the kind of thing that I like to bring back to my students.

And share with them so that they have some experience of the physicality of letterforms and what you can do with them and also what those limitations are.

And what I found is oftentimes the folks that I have in my class are not necessarily majoring in visual communications. They're majoring in studio art or art education. So they have a different kind of experience with traditional media. It's actually required of them to be proficient in some of those media that requires technical knowledge like inks and paints and pastels and, all of that, those hand skills. And so doing stuff for visual communications projects.

They are not averse to thinking about some of those traditional materials that they use in other ways for illustration. And incorporating that into their materials. So I think just looking at our field as having the capability to incorporate a variety of methods, of techniques— like, every project we do is mixed media in some way. So know, lean into that.

Go ahead and explore, like folks used to do with zines. They used to do them on photocopy machines and like pull the piece while the photocopy machine was actually imaging it to create special effects. Yeah, incorporate that stuff. Why not? Why not think creatively and not be limited by the box, the desktop or laptop that's sitting on your desk in front of you.

Christian Solorzano [18:15]

Because I know some of the concern that I hear from my peers and just from the community is that the industry has somewhat lost its patience for slow design. I think when efficiency is what is championed as a metric for success. I think sometimes working slowly and taking the time to maybe be more intentional with your medium is not something that I feel like is celebrated as much anymore. Or, and when it is, it's something more that's more novel, like an art book or art.

Especially like my job is UI designer. I do a lot of UI and UX, and everything is now just about systems and how to systematize everything so that you can make updates super quick. And I don't know, I feel, I feel a little bit concerned with even like AI just setting a new standard for like speed. And just go. So I don't know, what are your thoughts on that? What do you— how do you feel about that?

Andrea Villasenor [19:31]

So what I, what I try and do with my students is I try to teach them all of the technical shortcuts that I possibly can that apply to actually producing their art, their piece, whatever it is. And I tell them that when you get out in the real world, you will have a limited amount of time to create any piece.

And typically you're not going to get an extension. Nobody's going to be happy with you if you miss the deadline. You have to get it done in that time frame. So if you can make your production process as efficient as possible, like you're suggesting with sort of automating ways of creating updates. So creating something— if I'm creating a long publication in InDesign, I'm going to use style sheets so that I can make changes globally to that document really quickly and save myself time like that.

What I try to do is encourage carving out as much time for creativity as you can. By saving time in the production process. So that creativity can be spent thumbnailing or brainstorming or exploring different media options. So creativity has a value, and we as designers need to kind of stand our ground and make sure that value is accounted for as much as possible in as many projects as we can convince the client to work with us on like that.

Christian Solorzano [21:30]

And what kind of classes are you teaching today? What are some of the themes or topics that you explore with your students?

Andrea Villasenor [21:37]

The classes that I've been teaching recently are the Intro to Visual Communications classes where I get folks who, are maybe very proficient with illustration, but have never worked with type in their life. So it's always exciting to me to see, by the end of the semester that they'll come in and they'll tell me, did you see that logo? It was horrible. They did a terrible job with the type. The spacing was just awful. They should have kerned it.

And I feel like another convert. I've got them now. So yeah, it's fun like that.

Christian Solorzano [22:24]

I feel like that, like learning and understanding those basics certainly teaches you a different way to see the world, and there's no going back.

Andrea Villasenor [22:33]

They'll always see the bad kerning now.

Christian Solorzano [22:36]

And when it comes to like your personal taste for graphic design, what are some of maybe your Favorite designers or like favorite pieces or like what's the kind of stuff that you just go crazy for? What's your—

Andrea Villasenor [22:49]

It truly depends on the project and how the designer expressed the message and those ideals. I mean, I enjoy the arts and crafts approach of William Morris. Those pages are really dense. So like small amounts of that are good. The cleaner, more modern look of folks like Massimo Vignelli. I mean, you have to just love the clarity of that and the beauty, the balance. But I also love the kind of crazy stuff that folks like Carlos Segura has done with the typefaces that border on unreadability.

I went to a conference once, and it was really eye-opening to me because he had designed the materials for the conference. So it was a big design conference. So the entire audience was made up of designers. After the conference, they had like this little coffee session where people could mingle and chat. And I was really surprised by the discussion that went on. So Carlos was in the room with several other folks. Whose names you could probably find in Meg's design history books.

And there was this intense debate about whether his design was appropriate or not. And it was amazing. People were saying it's unreadable, it's, aesthetically terrible, all these things. And I just remember Carlos saying, hey, if I can't push the envelope for a design conference, then what's the point? And I just thought that was brilliant. There was even an article by Stephen Heller who ended up writing about the pieces that Carlos created for that conference and saying, how ugly or how unreadable they were.

But it was fascinating because this conference was quite a while ago. Not that long ago, he recanted his opinion on that. So Stephen Heller actually went back and said, this actually works. And, when you consider your audience, that's the important part. So if you can't push the envelope for designers, yeah. What's the point?

Christian Solorzano [25:22]

For me, that's also some of the most exciting graphic design is when it kind of challenges you and forces you to go beyond it's good or it's bad, but sort of have like an existential crisis of like, what is it? Is it, is it good? Is it bad? Is it— does it matter?

Andrea Villasenor [25:41]

There's an exhibition that you need to go see before it closes, which is like June 15th. It's Victor Moscoso. He was one of the big 5 poster designers in San Francisco in the 1960s. So '67, '68 or so, I think, is the time period that he's most famous for. And he did the psychedelic posters with the vibrant colors and the unreadable type. And it's just brilliant. It's just beautifully done. Readability wasn't the focus. It was meant to challenge the viewer, challenge the audience.

And there's I think, I think it's actually in the Helvetica movie where he talks about his work, and he says, if you can't read his posters, then you weren't meant to go to that concert. It's just brilliantly done. It's at, it's at the Instituto Cervantes. Exhibition is free and it's just really cool. So check it out if you get a chance.

Christian Solorzano [26:49]

Yeah, thanks for letting me know. And for the listener also let's go check it out. By the time this episode airs the exhibition will still be on. So you guys still have some time to go look at it. Was there ever an alternative path for you? Something else if graphic design wasn't Something you would have pursued? What's your other reality in some other, in some other dimension? What are you doing?

Andrea Villasenor [27:21]

Gosh. Okay, well, I have always said that what I do for work and what I do for fun is the same thing. So that's a little bit hard. Because yeah, I mean, all of the things that I went to over the past 2 weeks where we ran into each other— paper shows, AI-related things, exhibitions, anything design-related, art-related— that's what I do for fun. And reading design books— I'm preparing to do a class for the Newberry on designers.

Type designers, and particularly folks who have some connection to Chicago. And I've gathered all these books over the course of my career, and I'm just enjoying the fact that I actually need to go back and read them so I can create materials for my class. It's just, it's like candy to me. I just enjoy it so much looking at the examples. Hearing a little bit about their life stories, their life experiences in these books, and then sharing it with students.

It's fun, like I said, to convert others into type lovers.

Christian Solorzano [28:48]

And what are some of the responses that some of your students give you when you share with them some of this work? Is there enthusiasm? Is there confusion? Is it like, what is this? What do they think?

Andrea Villasenor [29:06]

Well, I try and start from just a basic understanding of what we're looking at so that folks have kind of a common vocabulary to apply to things. So I try not to make it mysterious. I try to make it approachable. Try to have some fun with it, to bring some humor into what we're doing. Like some of the responses that I've gotten where, folks have noticed typographic subtleties and actually noticed different typefaces and then have come back and told me.

That, or, oh, I had my friend over to watch the movie Helvetica because I was so excited. It's stuff like that, which is, just really fun. It's, it makes people a little more aware of everything that's surrounding them. And I think that in our society today, people are a lot more cognizant of design and how it affects them in so many different ways. So. I think it just, it's something that students can appreciate and build on as they start noticing more and more around them. So.

Christian Solorzano [30:36]

Yeah, I always talk about how design is such a huge driver of culture, and how often when we're creating our work, we don't— I mean, at least for me, like sometimes I forget that the decisions that I'm making are contributing to culture somehow. And even like just pop culture, like music or just film or like all these, all this media that we're consumed by, it's all graphic design. It's all design. It's all, it's all, it's so much of that.

And I think it's both inspiring, but also a little bit frightening to realize how much control we have when it comes to the work that we do, because we're the ones that are designing things that are both doing good and bad things. So there's like a responsibility I feel that we have to not just ourselves, but also to just society and the public.

Andrea Villasenor [31:42]

That's a really great point. And that's something that I like to bring to my students when we're looking at different kinds of design, different ways of using design. And I like to play clips of interviews with different designers. So 2 of the folks who I'd like to compare are James Victore.

He went to New York with the idea of being a poster designer, and found that it was not that easy to just get a job designing posters, that really is not a viable career path for somebody who's just starting out in the field. And so what he did is he created a self-generated project and created posters that spoke to really controversial social issues. There's a poster that he did that is just the word racism, and it's done in a really sort of rough scrawl.

So it's just the word, and the C is done like a mouth, and it has these sharp teeth on it, and it's just really powerful. It's really simple and powerful. And he's a person who has done some really memorable and socially conscious pieces like that. So that's one approach that you can take toward design.

And I compare that with Milton Glaser and some of the pieces that he's done, and how he talks about, or talked about, working with students and kind of nurturing creativity and using design in a positive way. So you can use design to be really strong and powerful and thought-provoking, or you can use it to create sort of a feeling of community and harmony and connection. So how do you use it? How does it have an impact on society? So both approaches are valid. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [34:02]

Right?

Andrea Villasenor [34:03]

It's thought-provoking.

Christian Solorzano [34:04]

My favorite thing about self-initiating projects, self-initiated projects, is that they require no permission from anyone. You just do it. I've been noticing, and maybe it's because of just the rise of social media and just websites and the internet, that there's been an increase in autobiographical pieces of design where graphic designers are exploring facets of themselves and their interests as just points of conversation.

To me, it's always like one of the most fascinating parts about graphic design is not just looking at the designer's work, but also learning about them. And I think that's why— I mean, that's why we still look at, history books and documentaries are made about musicians and artists is because sometimes the person in their mind is just as, if not even more exciting than the outputs that they're, that they're creating.

Andrea Villasenor [35:02]

There's a beautiful— I know it's not really a book, it's a set of little booklets that come in a slipcase that was designed by Stefan Sagmeister. Beautifully done. And the COVID is die-cut, it's his face. And as you slide the booklets in and out and reorder them, His face changes because you can see different aspects of booklet covers in those cutout spaces. And the title was what I've Learned in My Life so Far.

And I think just being introspective like that, sort of being philosophical about things and examining things and questioning things, is something that we as designers do for our clients. I think it's equally important that we do that for ourselves to reflect on what's important to us or what we've learned or things that we need to express and then use our tools, use our creativity, whatever medium we choose or have available to go ahead and express that and create things like that.

Christian Solorzano [36:09]

So on that note, one of the questions that I— it's been a while since I've asked anyone this, but I'm gonna ask you is Are there any questions or just any, what keeps you up at night on that topic of introspection and thinking? What are some of your big life questions or what's the thing that keeps you, that keeps you inspired, keeps you going?

Andrea Villasenor [36:29]

There's just so much in our field that as much as I try to read everything and go to everything and hear all the lectures, there's just so much. That is rich and changing and valuable and inspirational. What keeps me up is, how can I, how can I do it all? How can I, how can I squeeze more in? How can I fit more hours in the day? How can I sleep less so that I can read more, or whatever?

Because it's like everything that you experience, we're to some extent, we're kind of like computers, right? You have to put data in to get data out. So everything we experience becomes a part of what we have to draw from our own creative practice. And it's like I keep discovering new things that Folks are creating new projects, new approaches. Just I just enjoy ideas. I just enjoy learning new things and I can't stop. I'm addicted to it.

Christian Solorzano [37:46]

Going far back into your childhood, have this, have you always been this way? And did you ever experience like a, the one milestone in your childhood that kind of like jumpstarted you down this path? What were you— what were you into? What would you like to do? What were some of the things that you would— that maybe you would think of, late at night when you were a kid?

Andrea Villasenor [38:14]

I was the kid who went to the library and checked out the maximum number of books that I could. Yeah, it was 10 at a time. Carried them home, read them that week, brought them back, and did it again. So I was that kid. I was also the kid who went to art class every Saturday starting at age 8 through high school. Yeah. So I was the kid who could draw anything on an Etch a Sketch. So that was my first screen.

Christian Solorzano [38:49]

Wow. What was the most complicated Etch a Sketch drawing that you, that you would, that you're able to do?

Andrea Villasenor [38:56]

So the last one I did was a scene in the Arctic with an igloo, an Eskimo, and a polar bear.

Christian Solorzano [39:07]

Wow, that's cool.

Andrea Villasenor [39:08]

Yeah. So weird skill sets. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [39:13]

But it's so, it's so interesting how life just works out. You were, you were into books. You were into arts, and then somehow now it's what you're doing. You're working at a library surrounded by books and you're designing, and I'm guessing it just sort of happened that way?

Andrea Villasenor [39:31]

I tell folks that it really isn't about the destination, it's about the journey. I've taken a sort of circuitous path working in all these different kinds of organizations. But yeah, working in a library, being surrounded by books, Being surrounded by other designers' works, their papers. Yeah, I just, I can't imagine a more appropriate place for me.

Christian Solorzano [40:01]

What's the part of Andrea that like would be a huge surprise?

Andrea Villasenor [40:05]

Oh geez. Okay. Well, see, now I just told you everything, so nothing is a surprise anymore.

Christian Solorzano [40:11]

When I, when I asked this question, to Rick Valicenti a few months ago. His was that he's a huge Taylor Swift fan. So I'm expecting something at that level of surprise.

Andrea Villasenor [40:26]

I can't compete with Rick. There's just no way. Guilty pleasures. I don't think I should feel guilty about this, but I love animals, and taking long walks with my dog is a guilty pleasure, I suppose. So.

Christian Solorzano [40:44]

What kind of dog do you have?

Andrea Villasenor [40:45]

She actually passed away last summer. So she was awesome. She was a mix. So I called her my generic brown doggy. She looked a little bit like a dingo. Okay. So if you know those Australian dogs, so medium-sized pointy ears. She had kind of a peanut butter color brown. Coat, short hair, and kind of a creamy colored chest. And she would— she was perfect because she would run and jump and play.

She could, she could jump over a 3.5-foot fence or so if there was a squirrel on the other side. So just from a standing spot, she would just jump over it. She would climb trees as far as she could. To get up to the squirrels, she would run. She would run the length of Dog Beach. She was so fast that she would— if there was a dog in her way, she would just jump over them. So that was, that was a lot of fun.

So she was my buddy. So both for long walks and then working here on my computer, she would, she would keep me company too. So. I think there are a lot of folks who have their pet coworkers, particularly over the past couple of years, who they've become very attached to.

Christian Solorzano [42:12]

So lately, outside of like attending like all these amazing events that are happening, and what are other things that you're up to? Is there anything that we should be on the lookout for? What are— I'm curious about what you're doing at the Newberry Library now. You mentioned a class that you're putting together. Is that with the Newberry Library on type designers?

Andrea Villasenor [42:33]

We have an adult education series of classes. They can be in person or virtual. They can be from one day to multiple sessions, like half a dozen or more sessions. This one that I'm doing right now, it's going to be in August, is about type designers, and it's a little bit about the backstory, who were they? What were their thoughts in creating these typefaces? So I think I'm gonna have some fun with that.

So we're gonna talk about typefaces that are, that are both exalted and those that are maligned. So we'll talk a little bit about Papyrus. So I'm sure you know what category that falls into. So we'll have some fun with that, and then I'm going to do a class in fall, hoping to do it on the 27 Chicago designers. There ended up being like 125 of them, so I won't be able to focus on everybody, but I'm gonna do half a dozen or so from each decade.

Christian Solorzano [43:39]

So when did those 27 designer books stop? When— why isn't that a thing anymore?

Andrea Villasenor [43:47]

They're absolutely wonderful to see examples of people's work. It's kind of like a mini portfolio of the best of the best from that time period. So the series ran from 1936 to 1991. You'll recognize a lot of the names, particularly from the last couple of decades, because there are folks who have done some tremendous work for Chicago. The reason it stopped is exactly because of what we're doing right now.

So digital technology became a way to promote work that didn't require the time, the cost of printing, mailing, distributing those promotional pieces. All of those types of things, there used to be Books that were distributed up through the early '90s, like the Chicago Sourcebook, Book of Illustrators, the Black Book. So people would submit their best work, and it was sort of like the Yellow Pages for creatives.

You could see who was doing what and find somebody who was doing something in a style that you needed for a particular project. Like an illustrator, photographer, or it would just list sources for type, sources for color separation, all those folks. But digital kind of did away with that. Now you can see anybody at the touch of your fingertips, right? You could Google and find people's work online. So some of that is just a casualty of our technology that we have.

Christian Solorzano [45:39]

Well, I think we should bring those back because there's nothing stopping us from doing that.

Andrea Villasenor [45:46]

All right, it's a plan. Let's get together and we'll figure out a timeframe for this.

Christian Solorzano [45:52]

Yeah, because it's such a— I feel like it's so nice to hold things, like to print something and to— and you know this more than anyone else, like it's good to hold things in your hand. It's on your shelf. You could pick it up. No one can update it. It's done. It's the final version. And yeah, they're collectible. It's just so amazing.

And for me, like when we launched our publication earlier this year, it was, it was, it was in response to just the internet sort of being a substitute for work, like seeing work. Printed timestamps are so, important just historically. And I always think about, 100 years from now, who knows if all this stuff on the internet's still gonna exist. But at least hopefully magazines will still— if they're stored correctly, they'll still be around.

Andrea Villasenor [46:48]

I got a copy of it. It was very nicely done. So my copy will be stored as well as possible. But I have to tell you this is something that I've thought about a lot since started working at the Newberry. I've been in this field long enough to have gone through all kinds of technology. Like right now I have my own archives of everything from floppy disks and SyQuest drives to Jazz drives.

Zip drives, tons of CDs, all kinds of media that is no longer easily accessible, right? So we're living in a time where a lot of the things that we create are disappearing faster than they ever did before. I think about the Newberry, I think about those medieval manuscripts. I don't need any technology except a light source, and I'm good to go. I can look at those anytime I want.

And, some of the books that we have are from like 1200, 1300 or so, and they've lasted these many centuries.

Christian Solorzano [48:13]

What's been the most surprising thing that you've come across at the library?

Andrea Villasenor [48:18]

So that's like asking somebody who your favorite child is. It's an almost impossible question to answer. But I will tell you the one thing that kind of stands out to me because it's such an interesting physical historical reminder of where libraries have come from. We have a book at the Newberry that has a chain attached to it from— it's like 1200 or 1300. So books would have been hand-created, handwritten by scribes or monks.

They would have taken such a long time to produce, so in a library the books were actually chained to the desks. So if you were reading the book, you could only read it at that location in place. And so we have one of those, and it's just— it's like, it's like going back in time to the medieval period. And, you're actually touching something that somebody Created 1200, so 1300. It's like 1,000 years ago. Is that right?

Christian Solorzano [49:44]

Yeah, almost. Yeah.

Andrea Villasenor [49:45]

That's kind of mind-blowing to have that and be able to physically touch it, to hold it in your hands. And you can't do that. Yeah, very many places in this world. And anybody who's 14 years old or older can do it. At the Newberry, you could come over tomorrow and we could call up that book and you could sit at the desk and look at it. And so that's what it— that's what's exciting and unusual. It's just stuff like that, and there's a lot of it.

So.

Christian Solorzano [50:22]

I used to go on field trips to the Newberry when I was a student, and I, and I, and I remember almost being like scared of being in there because it was so— it just, you just felt so small in there because everything around you is like, that there's just you're standing in like a piece of history surrounded by all these like beautiful objects that you're just you don't want to touch anything. You don't want to look at anything for too long.

Andrea Villasenor [50:53]

Yeah, it gives you some perspective. So but yeah, the thing that I regret is the ephemerality of stuff. I used to think that all of the pieces that I created, they won't last that long, brochures or magazines or books, or, but they won't have that long of an existence.

But then I think about the kind of work that you do, the stuff that's All digital-based is truly the most ephemeral of ephemera, because I find cool stuff on the web, and then I go back weeks later, months later, year later, and it's gone, and I can't find it again. And that kind of makes me sad.

Christian Solorzano [51:46]

Yeah, I know. I used to, I used to bookmark everything on my computer. And I kind of stopped when I noticed that a lot of the bookmark things that I had were no longer like working. Like they're just broken links now.

And I'm like, oh, that sucks. So yeah, it's terrible. But I, but I do feel like there's a, there's a growing appreciation for— I mean, it's been around for a while now, like for even like cassette tapes are making a comeback. CDs. I've also noticed that more people are buying CDs again. And even vinyl. Vinyl has been just— people keep buying more and more vinyl.

So my hope is that people will be more— there'll be a growing interest in like archiving things in like sustainable formats that could, that exist beyond the computer. Because I've had a lot of conversations with designers that were working in the '90s, that I asked them to send me. I'll see a little screenshot of something and I'm like, can you send me this like bigger? Or like, can I— can you send me the file? I want to look. I want to take a closer look.

And they're like, I don't have it. It doesn't— I can't open it anymore. Carlos Segura, he told me how he used to do a lot of music videos for the fonts that he would create through T26. I'm like, I want to see these videos. And he's like, I want to see them too, but all I have are these little screenshots that are like super tiny of the videos, and it sucks.

Andrea Villasenor [53:19]

Yeah, and that's one of the things that we're trying to come to grips with at the Newberry is how to archive some of this digital media. Same thing, we want to keep it just the way we keep printed materials. And how do we cope with that when hardware changes, operating systems change? I don't know. I might be able to open Carlos's files. I have a computer from 1995 that still works.

Christian Solorzano [53:49]

Oh, really?

Andrea Villasenor [53:50]

You plug in one of these peripherals, see if that works, and get to some of those old files.

Christian Solorzano [54:00]

Okay, that would actually make for like a cool event, like opening old files.

Andrea Villasenor [54:09]

Oh, it's kind of like old video games and stuff. There was an exhibit of old video games starting with Pong. Museum of Science and Industry had it. This was several years ago now, but that was super cool. So yeah, it's kind of fun to play with old technology.

Christian Solorzano [54:29]

Well, now everyone knows that you got the working computer that Everyone's gonna message you now. Well, we're almost at time, but we've— before we, before we drop, anything else that we should be on the lookout for? What are you listening to these days? What's keeping you inspired? Is there any designer, just anything that's happening today that you want to maybe shout out or talk a little bit about?

Andrea Villasenor [55:00]

There are a lot of folks doing some really amazing things. So what I've been trying to keep up with is some of the folks who have been posting work to like the Type Directors Club or the ATypI event. There was— there's an event in Paris this week on type. And I signed up for the newsletter that Elliot Stocks is doing from Paris.

So just keeping up with some of these worldwide events and seeing the cool stuff that folks are doing, because type is— you would think that people would be done designing typefaces at this point because there are thousands and thousands. But there's always cool new stuff coming out.

So like trying to stay in touch with all these different designers around the world through these different events, it is something that I've been trying to do, as well as just see what some of our local folks are up to, folks here in Chicago who are doing beautiful typefaces like I love the type that Jackson Cavanaugh does. He does some really nice work.

Christian Solorzano [56:25]

Yeah, he's a huge type historian. He's always— I mean, he knows so much. And him and I, we've been talking about some of the old events that the STA used to put together like 100 years ago and talking about maybe bringing some of those back in some new format? Because I feel like Chicago has a great graphic design community, but I feel like when it comes to typography community, I feel like we could be doing a little bit better.

Andrea Villasenor [57:00]

I'm always interested in seeing what could be done. So the Chicago Calligraphy Collective does some really nice stuff if you like letterforms that are not type necessarily. They're fun to kind of follow. But yeah, getting into some of the things that groups like that did in like the 1940s and '50s, I think they had, they had events at the Newberry.

Christian Solorzano [57:31]

In fact, the STA has been around since 1927. So yes, they, they've been around for a long time. And I, and I wish, I mean, if they're listening, I wish they did more Typography events, because— all right, if you're listening, that's a, that's a request.

Andrea Villasenor [57:47]

I will pass that on.

Christian Solorzano [57:48]

Awesome. Well, it was great to speak with you today. Thank you so much for, yeah, for taking the time. I enjoyed learning more about you, and I hope that we continue to cross paths. And now that we've put it on record that 27 Designers is going to be a project that is initiated. Yeah, we'll have to do it now because—

Andrea Villasenor [58:11]

Sounds good. Sounds like a plan.

Christian Solorzano [58:14]

Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much. I will drop— well, actually, one last question. If people want to get a hold of you, what's the best way for people to find you and reach out?

Andrea Villasenor [58:22]

You can reach me at the Newberry. So it's my last name, Villasenor, and my first initial. So villasenora@newberry.org. So just shoot me an email if anybody wants to come visit the library. I'm happy to make arrangements to maybe give you a little bit of a behind-the-scenes tour, or maybe we can do something with a group of folks who want to come visit. So we're always happy to have new people come and enjoy some of the cool things that we have.

Christian Solorzano [58:53]

Awesome. All right, I will include those details in the description for this episode.

Andrea Villasenor [58:58]

Awesome. Well, this was a lot of fun, so thanks so much for inviting me, Christian.

Christian Solorzano [59:01]

Yeah, of course. Anytime. As always, it means a lot that you stuck around until the end. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. And as always, to learn more about the Chicago Graphic Design Club, you could visit us at www.chicagographicdesign.club. Talk to you soon. Goodbye.