Christian Solorzano [00:01]

Hello, you are listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and today I share my conversation with Anne H. Berry, designer, writer, and the director of the School of Design at the University of Illinois in Chicago. Anne is relatively new to Chicago, having arrived in 2024 to take her role at UIC, though she'll tell you that the city never felt far away.

She grew up just a few hours from here in Goshen, Indiana, and Chicago was always on the horizon. What brought her here is also what defines her work, a deepening belief shaped by her family, her faith tradition, and the political world that she grew up inside, that designers have a moral responsibility to the people they communicate with. That belief runs through both of her books, the Black Experience in Design and her upcoming Guiding Principles for Inclusive Design Values.

Anne will also be featured in the 3rd issue of our publication, Faculty, by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. We also talk about her path into the field, her arrival in Chicago, what gives her hope, what makes her pessimistic, and how she holds herself together on the days when that's hard. If you enjoy conversations like these, we always appreciate your support when you leave us a rating wherever you're listening. It helps us expand our reach. Thank you so much. Enjoy the conversation.

And to learn more about us, visit www.chicagographicdesign.club. Good afternoon.

Anne H. Berry [01:35]

Good afternoon.

Christian Solorzano [01:36]

We're recording this on August 14th. It's 4 PM. How was your week?

Anne H. Berry [01:44]

How was my week? Oh goodness, that's maybe a difficult question actually to start with. Actually, the week has been fine, but we're gearing up for the fall semester, so there's a lot of activity, particularly via email. Emails are kicking up as people are starting to— I mean, we're in that weird space of summer break isn't over yet, but we're thinking about the next few weeks and what's going to happen. Busy.

Christian Solorzano [02:12]

How'd you spend your summer?

Anne H. Berry [02:15]

How did I spend my summer? I did actually did a bit of traveling. I was up in Canada. I was able to go to New York, and I just came from Portland. I was there for TypeCon, so I was able to get around a little bit this summer. But otherwise, I think I spent most of my time hanging out in Chicago and visiting with family and friends. So you know my job is.

All year round, so I still have, work and responsibilities, but made time to— made sure I had time to get out of the city for a while.

Christian Solorzano [02:48]

And you've been living in Chicago for— it's been 2 years now, right?

Anne H. Berry [02:52]

Yes, it's been 2 years. Officially started at UIC in July 2024. So yeah, this is my official 3rd year start has started.

Christian Solorzano [03:04]

And how's Chicago been treating you?

Anne H. Berry [03:06]

I love Chicago. I actually grew up a few hours from here. So my hometown is Goshen, Indiana, which is about 2 and a half hours from here depending on traffic. I grew up, we would take field trips to Chicago all the time, baseball games, Field Museum. So I've always loved coming to the city, have been on the South Shore train many times. But I love it here.

Christian Solorzano [03:34]

And what's the thing that brought you here to live?

Anne H. Berry [03:37]

The thing that brought me here to live is my job as the director of the School of Design at the University of Illinois Chicago. So in many ways, for me, it was the perfect alignment of things that I wanted to do in my academic career and the location, because it is— I still have family in my hometown, so I was happy to be closer to them.

Christian Solorzano [04:00]

Did you grow up with a big family?

Anne H. Berry [04:01]

I grew up with— I have 2 siblings, and it was— so my immediate family was probably average size, I guess you would say. But I have big extended families on my mom's side and my dad's side. So growing up, we spent a lot of time— I mean, most Christmas and Thanksgiving was spent with Hostetler cousins and aunts and uncles. And within the last, let's say, 10, 15 years, I've been able to see my dad's family more often.

So my Hostetler cousins are, at least we were mostly based in Ohio. So I mean, we're spread out across the country, but Ohio was usually sort of the home base. And my dad's side of the family is further down south. So trips to see the Berry side of the family were, those trips were fewer and further between. But it's been great to have more connections to that side of the family. Yeah, I would say last 10, 15 years.

Christian Solorzano [05:04]

I read that your father was your history teacher?

Anne H. Berry [05:08]

Yeah. Yeah. So I did my undergrad at Goshen College, which is a small Mennonite liberal college in my hometown, Goshen, Indiana. In fact, both my parents taught there at one time. But by the time I was a student, my mom had taken a different job as a librarian at another school at the place where I went to high school. Small town, small town, small town USA. But yeah, I had my dad for 2 classes. One was an independent study because I needed the credits to graduate.

So that was basically an independent study in public policy. But I also took his African American history class. So the independent study was, my dad is old school. He's the kind of professor who would call on— he's since retired, but he's the kind of professor who would call on students whether or not you had your hand raised or whether or not you thought you knew the answer. So I believe, well, I guess I took both classes for grades.

I was trying to remember if I took one of those for credit. No.

No credit. But I think I took them both for grades. And so I had to, do all the readings and do all the work to prepare for class. I mean, there was no favoritism whatsoever. I had to— I didn't want to embarrass myself. So I had to— I actually put a lot of work into those classes. And I— the one thing I remember from the independent study is that he had me read a book that, at least at the time, was out of print.

It was, I think it was by Archibald Cox, who was a member of the Supreme Court. He was not, no, he wasn't on the Supreme Court, but he was, I think he was one of the prosecutors during the Nixon administration who was fired. I think that was him. Yeah, when Nixon got rid of the, Nixon got rid of the, I'm gonna, this is something I'm gonna have to repeat. I think it was the special counsel had been appointed to look into Nixon, and he fired him.

And then I think— I can't remember if that was Arch Boldcock's or if he was next in line, but he got— I think he got fired. At any rate, he'd written this book, and my dad just happened to have it on his shelf in his library, his personal library. So I had to read it. But, I've also been pretty vocal about the fact that much of my interest in design is through the lens of politics. And that's partly because of my dad.

It's partly because of my parents. They got married in 1969, which was 2 years after the Loving versus Virginia Supreme Court case, which legalized interracial marriage across the country. That has— can have a pretty big impact on you when you're growing up in that sort of context. So it is my whole identity, I would say, I mean, it's hard to separate out politics from how I think of myself as an individual, my identity, because it's so wrapped up in the context of where I came from.

And what my— where my parents came from. But I— yes, my dad, both my parents, I would say, have been a huge influence, even though my career path is very different than theirs. It's through the lenses of the things that they've experienced and Talked quite a bit about.

Christian Solorzano [08:40]

I can only imagine that your parents are probably really proud of you for all that you've accomplished.

Anne H. Berry [08:45]

I think they're— well, I, I— so my mom passed away in March, so the question is a little bit challenging for me to answer in this moment. But I would, I would say I think my parents have been proud of all 3 of their children, very much so. So it's hard. It's just hard to answer that question. I think one thing that may be helpful to know, or maybe provide some additional context, is that my brother's a scientist.

He's a physicist, so his area of study is or research rather is solar energy photovoltaics. My sister is a theologian, so she and all of us are academics. So my brother, he is a researcher, but he also runs a lab, and my sister is also a professor.

So our areas are very different from one another, but I think that they would— I mean, and I certainly would not say that I'm speaking for them necessarily, but I think we would probably all agree that despite how different our areas have been, the things that our careers that we have pursued, that our parents that they have had an impact on us. And I mean, that's the thing that has motivated us in these different areas. Yeah, I guess I think they are proud of us.

I think they're proud of us. It's— anyway.

Christian Solorzano [10:14]

Yeah. And I ask because, often I notice that people, when they're, let's say, in the coming-of-age period of their life, sometimes they will revolt or kind of push back against maybe what their parents' ideologies are or whatever. So I'm wondering if that's something that you ever experienced.

Anne H. Berry [10:40]

Well, I, it's interesting. It's not as though my siblings and me, it's not as though we never rebelled in some way, but it was never particularly extreme, I guess. And I think part of the reason was because we were one of the few multiracial or interracial families in our community. And, my dad is retired now but was an attorney. So part of it was like, because we all went to college at Goshen College, we all did our undergrad there.

Tuition, we had a tuition discount because our parents had taught there. But I didn't, get into too much trouble because I knew I didn't want to have to call my dad from like the police station or something like that.

I didn't want to have to do that. And I think part of the reason I didn't want to put myself or my dad in that position is because, we were raised with this sense of accountability and responsibility. We— the opportunities that we had come with a certain degree of sacrifice and intentionality. And so therefore, our lives are pretty easy compared to like how my dad grew up, for example.

So I think I didn't ever wanna take that for granted or make him feel as though I have taken all the support and resources that he and my mom have provided. I didn't ever wanna take any of that for granted. So, I don't know. I guess I just felt like I don't want to embarrass my parents. I don't want to— I don't want them to think I'm not grateful for what they've done for me and my brother and sister.

But I would say, I guess, so I was never particular— I myself was never particularly rebellious. But I would also say that I also struggled to kind of figure out what my path was. So my siblings, my brother, my sister, like they, their interests were pretty clear early on. What they were doing when they got to college. I didn't really have an idea. So there were lots of ideas I was bouncing around. It was really difficult for me to sort of narrow or focus.

And it wasn't until I got into graduate school at Kent State that really sort of sealed the deal. Because up until that point, I was interested in graphic design. I thought it was cool. But I didn't I don't wanna say this. I had a really great undergraduate education at Goshen College, but I wasn't necessarily prepared for professional practice. So there was a period of time where I was trying to figure out how to sort of get to the next level with career opportunities.

I went to this small college, which was, again, I had a great experience there, but not really connected to industry at large. So there was a period where I just really struggled to try to find footing and how do I move forward this career path. So I struggled with that more than my siblings did. And so there's a period of time where I was really questioning, yeah, maybe I'm not in the right field. Maybe there's something else I should be doing.

But so when I got into graduate school at Kent State, then that really changed the trajectory of my career path.

So that was a really important point in time. And I remember before getting into graduate school, I mean, there was definitely some pressure to, my dad kept saying, you ought to think about an advanced degree. You ought to think about an advanced degree. And I guess I sort of felt like the outlier of the family because I hadn't quite figured all of that out yet. I hadn't figured out, do I want to go to graduate school?

If I go to graduate school, what do I want to study? So there was a period of time that I was really unsure and was kind of all over the place. But, I— when I talk about my time at Kent State, I'm pretty open about the fact that it— yeah, it was monumental and pivotal in many ways for me, partly because of the faculty and students that I met there, many of whom I'm still connected to and friends with.

I think that's really where I started to find a sense of design community. So then I kind of knew I was on the right path. Not that there is a single right path, but there was just a period of time where I really struggled. What am I doing? What am I good at? Those sorts of questions.

Christian Solorzano [15:35]

It was in middle school that you discovered the possibility of design? You met a book designer named Gwen?

Anne H. Berry [15:44]

Gwen Stomm. Yes. So Gwen, we— I went with my mom to a Mennonite publishing house in Pennsylvania, and I met Gwen, and she's a calligrapher and illustrator, designer. And it was the first time I remember thinking, oh, there's a way to use creativity in a way that you can make a career of it. And given my dad's background in particular, I knew that I wanted a career in which I could support myself financially.

And this was the first time I'd really seen something that was like an actual, yeah, career. It wasn't just like— I come from a creative family too. So even in elementary school, we were really encouraged to, in creative pursuits. So my mom taught children's literature for many years. So when we were little, we were all writing and illustrating our own books.

I think my first book was like the Day I Jumped Out the Window, which is a story about like jumping outta the apartment building that we were living in at the time and how I bounced around to all these places. I was already encouraged in that way. But the visit to the publishing house was the first time it wasn't just like creativity as something fun and interesting that you do, but it's— there's a potential for, yeah, a career of some kind.

And Gwen, if I'm remembering correctly, she had like a calligraphy poster that she gave me. So then years later, I'm at graduate school and I'm taking calligraphy. I'm taking letterpress classes. And those were really my way into understanding and appreciating typography. So part of the— again, part of the context here, just to take a step back, I've— I'm one of those people who generally enjoyed being in school. I really enjoyed learning. I just didn't have a lot of focus or direction necessarily.

As an undergrad, so again, you know this is why graduate school is particularly important. But I also came to my graduate school education knowing that I needed more learning. I mean, I'd been prior to graduate school, I'd been working in industry. I've been pretty open about the fact that it was a you know there was that was a challenging time as well. I was working for a place that was in a pretty toxic work environment.

So I was really questioning again whether or not design was something that I wanted to pursue. But it was through school, through an educational context that I really felt mentored, supported. And yeah, that's— I think it just made a huge difference. Graduate school just made a huge difference for me. And made me— brought my creative interests together in a way that I could see how the things were tied together.

I— the— at TypeCon, the co-editors of— my co-editors of the book that was just published, Guiding Principles for Inclusive Design Values, Rebecca Tegtmeyer and— oh my God. Megan Dee and I. Let me say that over again. So at TypeCon, Megan Dee and Rebecca Tegtmeyer and I gave a keynote talk.

And I— we had the opportunity to sort of introduce ourselves because we— before we dug into what the book is about. And I used that opportunity to reflect a little bit on these through lines from my past and the ways in which writing and design, I think for me, have always been tied together to a certain extent. Easier to see in hindsight, of course.

From the, writing and illustrating my own books when I was in elementary school, to a creative writing book that I had in the 2nd grade, to some projects I started doing in graduate school that were calligraphy, like I was working more with my hands and learning to bring together digital skills and sort of hand skills. To me, those are the through lines.

It just took me a while to see them or to understand how I could sort of use those skill sets in a, in a, in the way that I am now.

Christian Solorzano [20:19]

Much of the work that you focus on now deals with themes of inclusion and equity. And as I was preparing for this conversation with you, I was reading about the Mennonite values of peace, justice, and service.

And I love, I love those 3 words. And I, and I think value. Like right now, for example, the Chicago Graphic Design Club, we have an open call for submissions where we're asking people to submit a poster that encapsulates one of their values. So I've been thinking about values a lot lately, and I've been also reflecting on the fact that, questioning how do we bring values into commercial work or into industry?

Anne H. Berry [21:05]

Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [21:06]

Because when you're working on a packaging product for a beer, like those vodka drinks that have like 20% alcohol, how do you bring design history or a holistic sense of wellness or values into things that sometimes run counter to—

Any notion of inclusion. So, and that's something that I'm always battling with because we— and I think that there's a part of me that loves design conferences, but then there's always the feeling of, all right, well, now I gotta get back to work and let's see how much of this stuff that I've learned I can actually incorporate into my workplace. And often it's like— Very little, if not nothing at all. So can you talk to us about that tension that sometimes happens?

Anne H. Berry [22:06]

Absolutely. And I think it's important to say at the outset that I recognize that we don't always have choices when it comes to working in industry. We don't always have control over the projects we're doing or the clients that we're working with. And I, of course, it's only fair that people are, trying to make a living, especially right now.

So really the intent of Guiding Principles, I mean, it started, it originated as a conversation about educators specifically and me questioning, because it was like we were starting to have these conversations when we were a few months into the pandemic in the spring of 2020. So actually around the same time that I was having conversations about the Black experience in design, those initial conversations about that project.

But I was, it was a little bit of a crisis for me because I was in a tenure-track position worried about whether or not I was gonna have a job depending on how long the pandemic lasted. And also, we were teaching online at this point and it's, there's an extent to which it is great, the technology and the tools that we have available to us, that we could even continue teaching through that time.

But it also made me question, what value am I bringing to education in the field of graphic design specifically? My students can— there's a lot they can learn on their own. There are many types of ways to learn. You don't have to be in a formal school or traditional school setting to learn. So that's really where the conversation started. And the conversation continued because we were talking to, Rebecca and Megan and Penny Laker and Kelly Walters, who were also part of those initial conversations.

We were talking amongst ourselves, but also to other design educators. To think about the value that comes from learning design. And as we know, design education and practice are very closely tied to one another. So the book is broader than just focused on education, but it is— it tries to address— we are trying to address this very question.

We recognize that everybody is in a different environment and— Therefore, what are ways that even, yes, if you're in a commercial, working commercially, and you are working on whatever the project is that is not directly tied to anything, or maybe, directly tied to something that is related to like DEI or whatever. I mean, let's face it, it's not as though that's— Yeah, let me, let me just backtrack a little bit. Sorry, my brain is starting to fizzle. Okay, so here's what I want to say.

The idea behind the book is that we are— and I mentioned that we started with education because it often happens in education that when you want to change anything to like the curriculum, for example, it can feel very overwhelming. And educators, are very busy people. And there's a lot, we're trying to do. At one time. So changing your syllabi, changing how you're structuring your courses, that can be a lot of work.

So the idea behind the book and the pledges that we came up with is that we're offering people ways to make some changes, however small, in a way that is sustainable and manageable. So even though— so we started the discussion with educators specifically, but the book is— includes practitioners as well for this very reason. So what— in answer, in response to your question, the idea is that it doesn't have to be I'm overhauling the way I'm doing everything.

It's not about I have to approach my work in a certain kind of way, but we are asking people— I mean, we're leaving it up to individuals to sort of think about what are some things that I can do in my environment that demonstrate or reflect my values. So to me, that could be if I'm running my own business, sure, I have some say in what client work I'm wanting to take, or what kind of people I want to work with.

I might have some flexibility there. But if I don't, I still have some control over how I'm going to work with people. So it's not necessarily about Always this is— I'm gonna be anti-racist today, or I'm gonna really try to be anti-racist all day, every day in my work. But there are ways that as an individual I can practice anti-racism. Even in my day-to-day relationships with people that I work with.

So it's less about a specific list of things that I can do. I mean, we provide some stories and suggestions, but it's not a recipe. And I think we're operating at a variety of levels. So, there's an institutional level, there's a personal level. So even if at an institutional level there are limitations, and again, like maybe you don't have control over the kind of projects that you're working on, you still have control over how you Demonstrate or how you work in relationship with other people.

Christian Solorzano [27:54]

Yeah. Yeah, those are—

Anne H. Berry [27:57]

Those are— I would just add, those are opportunities to demonstrate your values. So it might not necessarily come through in the work. That's what I want to say. It might not necessarily come through in the work, but it hopefully comes through in how you relate to people.

Christian Solorzano [28:09]

My earlier question about whether there was some kind of pushback or Rebellion against, let's say, your parents or the authority figures when you were coming of age is because I find that sometimes living by value can mean being a troublemaker or taking risks or just willing to— And, a lot of the people that we tend to look up to from history that did good in the world they were difficult people, and they were threatening, and they were pushing back, and maybe sometimes not the most pleasant to a certain kind of people.

So I think that tends to be my hope for people, is that there's more good troublemakers out there.

Anne H. Berry [29:00]

Sure. I guess I would say my form of rebellion and troublemaking is much more because I'm also, I'm definitely like a rule follower. I don't know where I get that from exactly, but I am a rule follower. But I still find, to your point, there's still ways to be subversive even when you are. Because I would also say, I guess maybe this is something I got from my dad. For him, there were repercussions, like serious repercussions if you didn't follow rules.

And so I think that I have that sort of level of caution internally. But it's also true that I have a very clear sense of justice and what is right. And therefore, why are we shying away from the language of diversity, equity, inclusion? Why, we should be able to speak openly about those things. And the book is partly a reflection of that. Too. And so I think, yeah, I'm not— I don't see myself as rebellious. Maybe— I think maybe subversive is the right word for me.

Because, I will find ways. They might be more nuanced, but my sense of justice compels me in many ways. And that's something I reflect on a lot, actually, in my role, in my director role. Because it is an administrative position, it is different than being, a faculty member or a student or a staff member. So the responsibility that comes with that, I do find myself thinking sometimes like, what are the ways to cause good trouble?

Christian Solorzano [30:48]

Yeah.

Anne H. Berry [30:50]

Even in a, in a role where I have these responsibilities, where I'm responsible to the university, I'm responsible to the dean, to the faculty, staff, students. But I hope, I do hope that, yeah, going back to the book Guiding Principles, I think it's meant to open people's minds of and to think about ways that they can assert themselves and still make a living, right?

Still make a way for themselves. But I would also say, I came of age as a designer during a time when it was definitely design as neutral. That was the language. And I would say I definitely experienced a culture of, or an environment of like, culture contexts are not important. We're gonna make beautiful things. Yeah. Or well-designed things, and it's less about where it's coming from or the larger context around it.

So I'm glad that it seems to me, at least the conversations I'm having with other designers and design educators, that has shifted. But I would also say I think there needs to be more conversation, particularly not even around culture and context, yes, but also around politics specifically. Because I think that's one area where we definitely, as designers, we shy away from that big time.

And I think that given where the United States is right now, we have a moral and ethical obligation to at least be more conscientious, more willing to have conversations about where we stand politically. And again, I realize that there's a certain extent to which, not everybody is in a position to be able to do that. But I do, I would like to see us having, as designers specifically, having more of those conversations. And what does that mean in whatever job context we're working from?

Or even what, how we're working. Yeah. Within our given work context, what does that mean? Because the Black Experience in Design, when it was published, there was legislation, and there's legislation now, that was shutting down Black history education. And when we were in initial conversations with our publisher for guiding principles, Rebecca and Megan and I think, were fearful that the publisher would say, because it was around the time when I think it was Trump's, his, what is it called?

The, his statement about, I'm trying to think of the specific phrase for his, when he has these initiatives or it's not like set into law. Why can't I think of the phrase? But his language against DEI policies in particular. Why can't I think of the phrase? Anyway, it'll come back to me. But Trump came out in 2024 and 2025 speaking very specifically about diversity, equity, and inclusion. And so Rebecca and Megan and I were simultaneously having conversations with the publisher about our book.

We were worried about whether or not there would come a point where the publisher would say to us, we can't, Move forward with this thing because it's too controversial or whatever, or even getting pushback on the title of the book. But that never happened. So what that says to me is that they know there's an audience for the kinds of topics that we're talking about, and they you know for them it was like an opportunity. So I have to believe that there is an audience.

That people are hungry to have these conversations. And it's not even about a particular kind of political ideology. That's not what I'm talking about either. I think it's— I guess I see it partly as a sort of personal understanding or acknowledgement of privilege, of power, of what responsibility we have as communicators. I mean, that's a lot of what our job is. Right?

Christian Solorzano [35:25]

Yeah.

Anne H. Berry [35:25]

Is to communicate with people. So what does it mean if we aren't able to develop for ourselves like a personal ethics as we think about the work that we're doing? I guess that's really what the idea is. That's what I'm talking about is like a sense of, I mean, a lot of these things are collective, like we're working collectively with other people, but I think it starts on an individual level. What are you willing to do or not do when it comes to your career?

You have some decisions to make. Are you gonna work for Trump and his Make Design Great Again, which is like a real thing that happened at one point in time? I don't know if you've seen the website. Yeah, I saw it. What, explain yourself. Explain yourself. Because I do think I feel pretty strongly that we cannot take democracy for granted. And designers have a role in all of this. I think we cannot afford to sit on the sidelines, is what I'm saying.

Christian Solorzano [36:28]

Yeah. And there's so much power in creating communication. And that's what we do. We're communication makers. We're meaning makers. Not recognize the fact that we can be complicit is, we need to recognize that. And in 2022, you were interviewed for Graphic Design USA, GDUSA, and you spoke about being equally optimistic and pessimistic. And—

Anne H. Berry [37:04]

That sounds like me.

Christian Solorzano [37:05]

What gives you hope? What are you optimistic about when it comes to the future of our discipline of our practice of design?

Anne H. Berry [37:14]

I'm actually optimistic about what we can contribute in the design process as humans. There's a lot of talk about artificial intelligence, but I'm more interested in conversations about the aspects of creative process that can only be done by humans. So that means whether we're interviewing people, whether we are co-creating with people, there are a lot of pieces of the creative process that are very much— that very much require human input and perspective, and that cannot be duplicated or created by technology.

So that's what gives me hope. I think we just—

As an industry maybe need to do a better job of talking about that. I think about it as an educator because of course we're having conversations about the future of the discipline and what is gonna draw students to a design education. If, yeah, they, how do we speak to the value of a design education? And I think that, yeah, there are, there are aspects of being human and especially being tapped into sort of creative output. Those are the things that make design beautiful and interesting, really.

So I'm hopeful about that. I think my pessimism lies in, I guess, just a larger worry about the world. And I will also say, I'm very interested in politics, of course, but I'm also interested in the ways in which design can mediate things like voting and what I'm going to just generally refer to as civic design. I think you know from the article that—

Jessica and Heather and I worked on together. To me, as I think about the challenges that we're encountering as a country, I also see many, many— so that makes me sad and upset and angry, but— and pessimistic. But I also see many opportunities. I see ways in which, as I said, design can mediate in spaces where we need better communication about how to fill out forms, how to get the benefits that we need, how to go about registering to vote. There are a lot of—

Opportunities there for communicating in ways that make these processes and systems accessible to a wider audience. So that's part of what excites me also. I think there's just a lot of need right now. And a lot of the need is— and that's not to say that all design should be about politics or super serious. I mean, there is— there does need to be space for us to just Be creative, right? In whatever way that takes us. But I think there is a lot of opportunity.

I mean, I think the world, I think the United States is going to need our skills if we want to continue, if we want to build back democracy in the United States. I think there is a role for designers to play in helping to make that happen. Probably more so on a local level, but a really important role nonetheless.

Christian Solorzano [40:54]

I teach, and there's times where the new generation of emerging designers give me a lot of hope because I think that they have so many— there's so many resources, and, resources like your books and resources like communities and conversations and so much stuff that I think when I was their age, I don't think a lot of it was as accessible as it is today. So I think that there is this, for me at least, there's a feeling of also optimism.

I feel hopeful that— I was listening to something the other day about—

Anne H. Berry [41:39]

What was it?

Christian Solorzano [41:41]

Technology and nostalgia, and they were speaking about how if there's any generation that's gonna help us overcome the, what some people might call techno-fascism, it's gonna be Gen Z. Because they're the ones that are like really appreciating analog. And they're buying iPods and they're watching TV shows that they were not around when they were coming out. So I, yeah, I think that's, I think that's quite beautiful.

Anne H. Berry [42:17]

Yeah. And I mean, I think this is ultimately why I'm in education. I mean, I initially got into academia because, I had some really bad experiences actually as a designer, and I felt like education was one way for me to help students have a more positive experience in the design world than I did.

But the other thing that is also true that I guess I didn't necessarily expect is the extent to which it is inspiring to see students come into their own and develop their, all these really interesting ideas and the way they think. I mean, that is— it is hopeful.

And it's interesting. And I think being in educational spaces, there's nothing better than being in a position to help sort of support and advocate for the things that students are doing and faculty. And that is cause to be Hopeful, I think.

Christian Solorzano [43:29]

And in regards to your— all the different things that you're doing, whether it's writing books, research, education, public speaking, what are you— I'm curious to know, what are the things that sustain you? And how do you find the courage to keep going when sometimes it's very easy to just want to be like, not today, or—

Anne H. Berry [44:00]

Yeah. Yes, that's another really good question that I've spent a lot of time thinking about even since like 2016, let's say. And I think as simple as it may sound, being in a position to help other people is something that's really important to me. That is a motivator. And that, that's part of what drew me to this position, specific position at UIC.

It's what draws me to public institutions, public universities, and the student population that we serve, the diverse student population, a lot of first-generation college students, because I know how much education can change someone's life, can change their career trajectory. To go back to my dad, education was his way out of instability and poverty. And while his case is— or his context and situation is maybe more extreme than a lot of other people, I think we can't underestimate how important it is, how important education is.

And especially now in this time where I would posit that the federal government is— I mean, higher ed is under threat right now. As I've mentioned, my siblings are also in higher ed. My brother is a scientist. My sister-in-law is also a scientist. The work they're doing is under threat right now. So it— that also means that what we're doing in higher ed, or wherever education is happening, is really important and really powerful. And so that's what keeps me going.

Like I said, I'm really— being able to help other people is a big motivator for me. And I think for myself, I mean, it is very tricky some days.

The world is not particularly friendly to Black women right now. So I think I will just be honest in saying that there are days when it feels like I'm trying to hold myself together while holding everything else together, and that's really challenging. So that's, I don't have sort of a clear answer for how to do those, do those things well.

I think we're all sort of navigating the world and, to the best of our ability. But I would also say I'm the kind of person who feels a lot of gratitude to have had the opportunities that I've had, to meet the people that I've been able to meet, to make the connections that I've been able to make. There's a lot in my life that is so valuable. I feel so fortunate that I can't help but feel gratitude.

And so I think that's another thing that is really helpful is that, yeah, there's a lot to complain about on a daily basis. I'm a worrier. I'm an anxious person. I worry about a lot of things. But I also recognize that as in my position, that I have a lot of opportunities and I'm grateful for that. So I try not to see the level of responsibility that I have, for example, as a burden. It's really— I'm fortunate it's an opportunity.

And it also helps when you work with people who feel that also, who are also interested and committed to helping. The faculty at UIC are really wonderful. I think the thing that impressed me the most from the outset and continues to impress me is the extent to which, some of these folks are doing amazing work in the world.

Christian Solorzano [48:16]

Thank you.

Anne H. Berry [48:18]

And in their, sort of in their own right, their commitment to education is just as important to them. The care and concern for students is just as important to them. So that I find that to be inspiring. And it helps to know that I'm working in a space where we have these, common goals that we're working on. Even if we're coming at them in different ways.

Christian Solorzano [48:46]

And as you move through the world, through much of what you're doing, do you have a sense of— I'm curious about what are your benchmarks or that buzz in your body that you feel? What's that feedback that you—

Anne H. Berry [49:06]

That's an interesting question. We're talking about intuition. I think that's what yeah. What you're talking about, right? I think it's in the warm fuzzies that come when, you see students excelling in a particular way. You see somebody giving it— giving— well, when I see colleagues, friends and colleagues succeeding in some kind of way.

Whether it's giving an important talk, publishing something, or just to see the influence, the positive influence that people I'm connected to have in the world, whether broadly or within the design world specifically, like that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. I mean, you I mentioned like Mennonite, my Mennonite background earlier. I do feel like I'm feeling my like Mennoniteness now more than ever. And I talk a lot about community, but that's really the culture that I come from.

I mean, community is a word that gets tossed around a lot, but it is significant to me. I think that the things that I value are very much rooted in community. And so it's one of those things where if one person is succeeding, whatever success might mean in a given context, then that makes me feel good.

And so it just so happens that education is in, at work, at school. I know that I'm where I need to be because I see I feel that sense of warm fuzzies when I work with students, when I work with faculty, when I work with staff. And again, it's mostly, through seeing other people accomplishing things that are really important and wonderful. So it's less about me, I guess, is the other thing I would say. I mean, I'm a facilitator. I'm here to support and advocate.

I think that's a great point. I feel lucky that I'm in a point in my career where I can do those things.

Christian Solorzano [51:29]

Most recently, I had a young mentee of mine reach out to ask if it'd be cool if she could put me as a reference for a job. And she said, they're going to call you and just, tell them what it's been like to work with me. And they called, and of course, all I had to say were like amazing things. And then she texted me later that day and she's like, I got the job.

And in that moment, I'm like, all this Chicago Graphic Design Club stuff that I've been doing for the last 6 years, I'm like, if there is like one thing to take away from all that stuff that I can say is the benchmark of success, it's like moments like that make the whole thing worth it.

Anne H. Berry [52:14]

I mean, I'm here to tell you, this is— One of the great things about being an educator, one of the simultaneously like hard but great things is that you never really know in the moment if you're having the kind of impact with students that you wanna have.

Or at least that's how it always felt to me. Am I, is this making sense? Or am I connecting with students in the way that I wanna connect with them? But I'm here to tell you that even years after I've had students in class, they will email me, they will reach out to me. Hey, do you remember me? Blah. I'm doing this, that, and the other. Or seeing, what they're doing on LinkedIn. And I'm here to tell you, there is no better feeling than that.

That is really an amazing feeling.

Christian Solorzano [53:01]

That's awesome. So as we reach the conclusion of our conversation, I do have a few, maybe we can consider them rapid-fire questions, but— In regards to Chicago, what do you do in Chicago when you're not thinking about work, when you're not planning for school? What do you like to do? What's something that we would not guess about you?

Anne H. Berry [53:29]

Well, I recently started boxing again. I also, I live near the lake. I really enjoy walking, just sitting out by the water. I mean, I grew up in the Midwest, so I've been around lakes for the majority of my life, but I really do enjoy just being in a peaceful environment. And I find water to be like really peaceful, relaxing. I enjoy spending time with my family. I enjoy traveling. I mentioned earlier, I have been able to do some traveling this summer, which is always great.

I would love to do more international travel. I enjoy being in places where I'm just me and I'm not connected to a role. So I think, yeah, it's one of the reasons why boxing has been I mean, I just started back up again, but I'm like a nobody in that context. And it's, you have to— it's a humbling experience to just be a nobody who doesn't really know.

You have to put your ego aside. And I, I've got— there are younger boxers like helping me get my form right. And it's a humbling experience. And so I think in a weird way that parallels the experiences I've had with international travel where I'm outside of my comfort zone. There's something that I actually really love about the vulnerability of that, to know that I can navigate a city in Italy with, whatever language skills that I have.

Or being in a new city that I've never been in before. I think there's something just really— fun isn't quite the right word, but I just love those experiences of being in new places and doing new things that are pushing me outside of my comfort zone.

Christian Solorzano [55:37]

What makes you laugh?

Anne H. Berry [55:39]

What makes me laugh? Oh goodness. People who don't take themselves very seriously. On my mom's side of the family, the Hostettlers, they're known as being quote unquote jolly people. And it's true. I mean, the Berries are funny as well, but I think that growing up in the environment that I did, I just love people who don't take themselves too seriously. Those are the kinds of things that make me laugh. I mean, I'm a little bit of a quirky person. I can admit that.

I have a silliness to my personality that I think maybe it comes from being the youngest sibling. I don't know. But I can get along with people who, yeah, don't take themselves too seriously.

Christian Solorzano [56:24]

And what makes you cry?

Anne H. Berry [56:25]

Oh God. Whether it's happy tears or sad tears, it doesn't take a lot. I'm a person of deep emotion, I would say. So it doesn't take a lot. I can cry about just about anything. Certainly my mom's passing was that's— I think about that every day, but I also am a happy tears kind of person, so it could be just about anything.

Christian Solorzano [56:53]

What are some things that you keep nearby that bring value into your life?

Anne H. Berry [57:01]

I think I would say my people relationships. During Periods of time where I have struggled with my career. Part of the struggle was not really having— it's not that I didn't have friends, but not really having community in the way that I think I— my personality that I need. And so I spent a lot of time in the past several years just Building connections with like really close friendships and relationships with people. And I think those are the things that are most important to me. People.

Christian Solorzano [57:47]

What are the characteristics that make for a good relationship of any kind?

Anne H. Berry [57:51]

I think it's that feeling of you can just be yourself, right? That sounds pretty basic. But I will also say, I think one of the challenges of being a Black woman in the United States is that we're very much— I think we are a caricature in many ways. I mean, the sort of the caricature of the angry Black woman. So I think— and there are like, lots of many stereotypes about— negative stereotypes about Black women.

So I think for me specifically, it's the ability to have all of my personality, like my personality traits, that I don't feel like I have to shield any part of myself and that I'm just accepted for who I am with all these— I guess what I'm trying to say inelegantly is like it can be very hard as a professional Black woman to hold yourself together.

And I'm a human, I have very bad days and days where it's hard to be diplomatic maybe in the way that I need to be. So I think when it comes to what does it mean to have good relationships with people where I know that I don't have to be a certain kind of way, that Anne on a bad day and Anne on a good day. I can just feel at ease.

I mean, I think most people would probably say that, but I definitely, there are just some people that you can really let your guard down. And I know those are the spaces where I'm most comfortable.

Christian Solorzano [59:37]

The last question is, for the people that are listening, what would you say is your strongest call to action right now?

Anne H. Berry [59:49]

My strongest call to action, I would say, is to try to find ways, if people aren't doing this already, to build community, to mentor, to support, especially when it comes to younger designers in the field. I think that, again, this may sound cliché in a way, but there's nothing we can't really do if we don't come together to do it.

But I would— I think now is a particularly important time for those of us who have had more, maybe more experience, to help support and advocate for younger designers, to help create opportunities for them, to help them, especially when they're coming out of school, to help them find their place in the creative community. Because I think it's like through building those relationships, that we are a community where people feel accepted.

And I say that partly because, again, I, in my own experience, I've had these periods of time where I didn't feel that sense of community. I didn't have mentorship. So I think that that's something we should be working towards, like making sure people feel welcome. It was a long time I was like early into my teaching career before I even met other Black design educators.

So, I mean, a lot of what I think about is a reflection of what I've experienced, in part because I want to create something different for the designers coming up behind me. So that's, I think there's more we could all be doing to help the people who are coming up behind us feel supported, connected, and to lower barriers of entry to the circles that we're in.

Christian Solorzano [61:46]

Beautiful. I want to say thank you so much for talking with me on a Friday. You could be doing anything else.

Anne H. Berry [61:57]

I could. I totally could. I, I'm happy to it's— I mean, I don't know you terribly well, so it's good to have this conversation with you and get to know you a little bit, even though you're the one asking the questions.

Christian Solorzano [62:13]

Now that you're in Chicago, I think we should get together sometime and keep the conversation going, because I definitely— I have many more questions.

Anne H. Berry [62:22]

I mean, sure, of course, of course. Yes.

Christian Solorzano [62:27]

And I think it'd just be cool to, yeah, to find ways to Maybe do something together, like with the Design Club. There's always ways that we're trying to get more people involved.

Anne H. Berry [62:39]

Well, I was gonna say, we— one of the draws to UIC is that we're like in the city, right? But I think there's always more we could be doing. I mean, I think to connect students with what's happening in the city, outside of, it doesn't have to be an intern— internships are great, but it doesn't have to be an internship, right? It can be just like Getting to know informally other design professionals or seeing what other people are doing in the design community in Chicago.

I mean, I'm part of the reason I'm happy to be in Chicago is that Chicago has a design, like a real design community. So I think there's more ways that I, we can sort of take advantage of that.

Christian Solorzano [63:19]

As usual, thank you so much for sticking around till the end. If you enjoy conversations like these, leave us a rating wherever you listen. As I mentioned in the beginning, it helps us expand our reach. Thank you so much for the support, and to learn more about us, visit www.chicagographicdesign.club. Thank you, and we'll talk to you soon. Goodbye.