Christian Solorzano [00:04]

You're listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and today I am joined by a co-host, Carson Koppin, a new team member of the club.

Carson Koppin [00:16]

Thanks, Christian. Super happy to be here. Of course.

Christian Solorzano [00:20]

And together we're going to be speaking with Chicago designer Benjamin Edgar. Who creates objects out of, and I quote, anything ranging from cotton to marble, characterized by a mix of irreverence and intense attention to detail.

Carson Koppin [00:36]

He integrates a passion for industrial design, contemporary culture, environmentally conscious consumer goods, and education, with his work spanning across a wide range of mediums and practices.

Christian Solorzano [00:48]

And also in this conversation, Benjamin provides insight into his creative process which consists of a meditative presence, discipline, and a dedication to gathering inspiration from unexpected places such as traffic cones and the mundane.

Carson Koppin [01:06]

So he'll define what he refers to as emotional problems and how he solves them through an entrepreneurial spirit that embodies experimentation, play, and utility. This is evident through some of his most notable projects, such as the Single Cigarette Holder, so as always, thank you so much for listening.

Christian Solorzano [01:24]

We hope that you find this conversation as inspiring as we did, and thank you so much for your support. So we'll talk soon. Enjoy. Good morning, Ben. Thank you so much for being on our, on our show today. How's it going?

Benjamin Edgar [01:40]

It's good. I'm in a hotel room in New York, halfway packed, but yeah, moving between meetings. Great.

Christian Solorzano [01:47]

Well, I appreciate your time. I know you're a really busy person.

Benjamin Edgar [01:51]

Not completely. It's more just maybe a little disorganized at times on the weekends, I think.

Christian Solorzano [01:55]

So I want to start our conversation. So this, so this podcast, the show is called Underscore, and we primarily focus on speaking with graphic designers and creatives. And we want to start by asking you to maybe speak to us a little bit about the role that graphic design has played Throughout much of your work, and maybe define what graphic design, what that, what that means to you.

Benjamin Edgar [02:21]

I think it's interesting because I've been looped into the graphic design kind of community, or, I think by some sort of adjacency to design in general, or now industrial design.

I mean, for me, it, a lot of the graphic design that I find myself personally most attracted to is a result of a process rather than a, like a mechanical process or a manufacturing process, or a limitation maybe the material has or something like that is interesting to me, and what that then dictates the design can look like. Some friends of mine and I call it accidental design.

You see it a lot, like kind of municipal settings, like in cities, waste removal stuff, or in manufacture, like heavy manufacturing environments where maybe colors and things like that are dictated by how dangerous an item is to use or how new an item is or something like that. So I mean, that's where— that's an abstract answer, but that's where graphic design in my world, I suppose, is probably the most interesting where I apply it.

It's definitely kind of like the final application after said object or something like that's finished. It's like, what is the brand we're going to put on it? Not to say that a brand is a logo, but how are we going to say that this is a Ben Edgar, Ben Edgar stamped product? So it tends to be very kind of repetitive. I think, I don't know, reduced. I don't like the word clinical, but I think maybe some people see it that way.

And then my question, how do I define graphic design? I think was the other one. This is interesting because this is a conversation I have with friends like kind of endlessly, but it's like, what's the difference between art and design? It's like, well, design solves a problem and arts only needs to, provide you an emotional response. But really great graphic design tends to also provide a pretty intense emotional response beyond just the problem that it solved.

So for me, there's the classic graphic design that's communicating maybe what a product is, or a road sign, or something like that. But the really good examples of it, I think, transcend into pretty serious cultural significance, if not art. So yeah, that's— I guess that's my quick answer on that one.

Carson Koppin [04:33]

To follow up on what you were saying in the beginning there, I think something that immediately comes to mind when thinking of graphic design in the world, especially speaking to a certain color, right? Like how a yellow safety vest really taking something out of the world. I feel like everything in quotes or the industrial belt that Abloh and Off-White did, I feel like that is such a prime example of seeing those things.

It feels like something so Effortlessly in the world and then taken and created to now be evocative of a time and a period, right? And I really think, I think that's just an exciting way to kind of like work backwards sort of from the reality around you and then kind of be able to create like a piece in moment, in time of a specific thing.

Benjamin Edgar [05:22]

Well, I actually, I was just at the Ed Ruscha exhibit in at the MoMA, and there's a question of like, is that graphic design? Was that graphic design at that time, or was that art, or was it Do you see what I'm saying? These things that we're so familiar with, some of his work and his— you could say the same with Jasper Johns's early work too.

Carson Koppin [05:41]

Totally, right? It's that, I know you talked about in Zine 1, right? Like that wanting to be an artist as opposed to like becoming an artist and then sort of like unlearning some of the museum talk, I know as you had called it in that Zine 1, right? Of like, you show up there, it's very— it's supposed to be this stoic, nobody say anything, reflect on this.

But yet it's so— we have to all be in here to interact with this thing for it to even have meaning, legs, if you will, right? So just interesting to see design and art kind of always battling back and forth. And I feel like it's more apparent now than it has been in a long time as we're just all becoming more and more consumers, right?

Christian Solorzano [06:25]

I feel like there's also a big aspect of just participation. And I think when I look at your work, Benjamin, to me, it strikes me as like being very participatory, being in a conversation with the person that's engaging with the work. And also, it's a little bit about recontextualizing, preexisting things that, already exist and just putting them within a different context. So I think about your cigarette holder and how it's a cigarette holder, but you're recontextualizing it.

So you're almost making it become— you're putting the cigarette within a new context. And in doing so, I think it forces the cigarette to become a piece of art. And to me, that's what, that's what really fascinates me about a lot of the work that you do.

Benjamin Edgar [07:09]

Yeah, that thing, it's interesting. That object has turned into a— it's like almost like a logo now, a logo for my company. I think when people see it or they touch it, myself included, and I think it's one part jewelry for your pocket, almost or something like that. It's not jewelry that you maybe wear on your wrist or your neck. And then the other part of it is industrial design.

I was like, most people's First reaction when I hold one is like, wow, it's a lot heavier than I thought, or a lot more solid, which of course I really enjoy heavy objects and, milled objects.

And then there's the graphic design element on it, if you can even call it that, where instead of it saying Benjamin Edgar cigarette holder or just a cigarette holder, it's given some character, I guess would be a word, by saying, a single cigarette after dinner, which is me kind of interacting with the Object Company part of my mark or wordmark. And I think then all of a sudden people have these memories, myself included.

That's kind of where it came from of like, oh, I was in Paris one time and I, it was after dinner and I don't really smoke, but it was like the right context there. And so that one's a rather like, it's a 3-part emotional journey, I think is what's made that one work the way that it has.

Christian Solorzano [08:14]

So I've listened to a handful of interviews with you and you speak about Object Company responding to emotional problems as being a solution to emotional problems. So can you explain to us what exactly is an emotional problem for the listener that might be wondering.

Benjamin Edgar [08:33]

That's a really interesting way to phrase it that way. Because when you remove it from what I can now understand someone might be quite confused when I say that. I think when I talk about design in like the really traditional sense of like, especially industrial design, it's like this wheel needs to be perfectly round so that when it rolls, it rolls perfectly. That is design. And it requires quite a bit of work to make something work like that. I'm not that level of industrial designer.

Or like the iPhone's probably the best example where it's like, that is design. It needs to work really well, or no one would be using it nearly as much as they are, or it'd be cumbersome. And cell phones have become, such almost like they have to be designed like 99.9% perfect, or you'll just go to another brand, like why would you use something that the screen doesn't respond quickly? And those are more like tactile technical design things.

When I say emotional design problems, that's almost selfish in a sense. It's like, okay, so why are you making a cigarette holder beyond hoping that it has some commercial success or something, which is not really where I start my projects? I'm making them because I think, what's the quote? Culture is everything you don't need. So after you have everything in life that you need, you express yourself by the things you either acquire or keep around you, or how you might dress yourself or communicate.

And those are emotional things. So I'm solving an emotional problem, and it's really quite selfish. It's my emotional problem. I want these things. I want to be delighted by them. And then I'm just beyond thrilled when other people are delighted by them as well. And I think a kinship kind of develops from that. So an emotional problem is really just— maybe the easiest way to say it is a desire to feel an emotion. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [10:19]

And Ben, so listening to you speak now and also in other interviews, I sense a very strong sense of humility in how you speak about much of your work and much of the things that you do. And I'm always interested in asking creative people if they see their work as almost like an obligation or maybe a vocation. Is there, for you, is there a strong line between Ben the person and Ben the creative person?

Or do you just— what's your personal approach to a lot of the work that you do?

Benjamin Edgar [11:03]

That's a really well-phrased question about— I'm getting more people asking me like, why don't you talk about it more? Or why don't you— yeah, I think there's people who are a little confused that I don't have a bigger ego maybe about it. And I don't. I don't really have a direct answer for that. I will say it's incredibly natural. It's not— I'm not pretending. I'm not being coy.

I— this is— you can already probably hear some level of inability to articulate here, almost like some levels of occasionally discomfort talking about this stuff. I mean, I named it after myself, so maybe that wasn't the smartest thing I've ever done. I think I could have just called it an object company, and that maybe would have been an easier thing for me to do. I— the quickest way I can sum it up is like anyone creative I know who's truly creative.

Yes, we'd all like to make a living from it because it's nice to cover your expenses in life and maybe have, maybe have more than you need to do new things. But we would be doing it regardless. It is a full-on compulsion.

I think it's at varying degrees with people. But pretty much anyone in my friend group who I work with directly, whether they're industrial design, graphic artists, paint, they're doing it when life is good. They're doing it when life is awful. They're doing it when people buying it. They're doing it when people, no one's buying it or no one's heard of them.

So that would be my answer in terms of like, I don't know if that answers the humility part, but I do definitely abstract myself from it. I don't like yeah, I don't necessarily enjoy recognition personally. I think what really excites me is when someone purchases a product and is really happy with it. That's pretty much all I need.

Or when I remember when I launched my site, the Object Company site, some time ago, many years ago, and when it transitioned from people I didn't know to all— I'm sorry, from people I knew to all strangers placing orders, how kind of profound that felt to me. I thought such a sense of freedom from that and such, I felt so, I, yeah, it's like, I just wished I could tell all the customers how much I appreciate them.

It's kind of an insane thing to transcend your friends supporting you into complete strangers supporting you.

Christian Solorzano [13:14]

And how do you, how do you go about celebrating those victories? Just curious about how do you, how do you celebrate?

Benjamin Edgar [13:21]

That's also a really, that's an interesting question. I think, I mean, I can give you some really literal examples.

Christian Solorzano [13:25]

Yeah, please do literal. Yeah.

Benjamin Edgar [13:27]

Yeah, if like there's like, say there's a launch day, like I have one coming up launching a product this Friday that I've been working on for quite a while. And if it goes really well, I just like to go to a nice dinner.

That's that to me. Or maybe if it's like exceptionally well, maybe I'll travel somewhere, but I don't really travel super last minute. I mean, I travel about like a week schedule. That is kind of how I book my flights. But no, I really just love like a really simple dinner, oftentimes by myself. Ralph Lauren Grill in Chicago is my go-to. When I'm here in New York, you'll find me at Szechuan Mountain House or Yakitori Toto on 55th Street, like just places where I can go.

And I'll tell you this, it never gets old when people buy your product.

Christian Solorzano [14:18]

It seems like you're doing a lot of— you're leading with intuition. You're creating these things that you're hoping that people will be interested in. And it seems like people continue to be interested in a lot of what you're doing. So for the listener, I think when it comes to creativity, there's 2 aspects. There's definitely— I think there's some people that might overthink things or try to get everything to be as crystal clear as possible.

Whereas other conversations that I've had with people, others almost don't know what they're doing. They're just sort of doing it and hoping that it works. And oftentimes it actually does. And a lot of it always seems to be just from this sense of leading with intuition. So can you walk us through the entire process of an idea, like just the concept all the way to, seeing the entire project through? Do you sketch on a napkin and a bunch of notes on your iPhone?

How do you, how do you, how do you go about that?

Benjamin Edgar [15:20]

It definitely is the Notes app where a lot of stuff starts. My Notes app, like pretty much everybody else's, is filled with like single words or like half a sentence or— and I don't use any of like the— I don't draw in the Notes app with my finger or anything like that. I don't really draw much at all. In fact, whenever I have an idea, I'm an illustrator immediately. It's kind of how I, how I express an idea is typically an illustrator.

My work is so kind of angular and square that it's fairly easy to make a sketch that's kind of pixel perfect, if that makes sense. But in terms of the— I think maybe what you're getting at, or maybe what I want to like think about more, is like, where does it even come from before? What prompts you to open the Notes app, right? Like what where did it start at all?

There's a few times where I can remember having like really clear— I'm actually staying at the hotel right now in New York that I remember sitting at a desk very similar to the one I'm sitting at now where I was like, what about like a single cigarette holder? And that was one of my fastest products to market. That's relatively straightforward to make once we had the CAD files and I beat on a manufacturer that was down to do it.

I think it was only like 3 or 4 months from idea to being on sale, and I probably could have gone quicker. That one, though, I can remember having this, the sentiment, but I'm not sure exactly where I was from. Maybe I'd just come back from Paris, and that was kind of part of it. The smoking part of that object to me is really not even like the point. It's like that it exists is kind of the point, if that makes any sense.

So yeah, I'm giving you a really awful answer to this because I don't have a good— I don't have a process. I do believe, though, and you'll hear this from a lot of the great artists, that don't sit around and wait for inspiration. You need to, you need to do the work. You need to show up to an empty canvas, whatever your canvas may be. Mine is more about immersing myself in things that are interesting to me.

I'm a big I'm a big fan of Jeff Koons' quotes, and his huge one is follow your interests. And that seems so easy, but you can really get like— it's like a form of walking meditation, basically, to be constantly aware of the things around you, the typefaces and the colors and the materials and all of those things. I think that's why cities are so interesting to me. And that then prompts things like I may walk past an orange cone.

I've been, I've been noticing orange cones a lot lately. I'm like, there must be something going on there that, that's gonna express itself in an object later. And you just have to trust yourself that sensation might feel really weird. It even feels a little awkward to sit and talk about orange cones here. But that's what we're doing, right?

I mean, that's the context for this stuff is like really paying attention to the tiniest minute things that grab your mental interest and make you feel a certain way and trust that those are leading you to some sort of internal thing that you feel like you might need to express.

And then from there, I have 2 or 3 friends, one specifically, Rotenda. He's based in Munich. He's actually in New York this week who helps me on the really technical engineering side of things if I'm not capable of doing it myself. And then it goes off to a supplier, we get a sample made. Samples for all my metal stuff, I can typically get done in like an insane timeline, like 10 to 12 days, which is just like crazy. I mean, it basically feels like 3D printing.

So kind of the magic of CNC. And then, yeah, I, my, a more, a more technical answer for you, a more like literal answer would be is from the moment I have an idea, I feel a deep level of responsibility to get a sample made as quickly as possible to see if I like this thing rather than letting it hang in idea land.

Because we all know that sensation where you talk to your friends about this idea you have and it seems to fade over time the less you make it reality and keep it in idea land. So I try and like the product I'm launching this Friday, only maybe 4 or 5 people have seen it. We've been working on it for like 3 months. I just like that. I'm like, I didn't let it go too far in idea land. I made it. I went through it, the process.

Carson Koppin [19:36]

I think there's something really like, thank you for the thorough front to back answer just on how does anything even Right, like get created. But I really want to hone in on what you said about the state of like meditation or feeling like constantly being in it.

Because I think that's one thing about your work, and even the events and things that I tend to come to that, either you're hosting or you happen to be a part of, and it always feels like you have a strong sense of being there, of just being there to learn and develop, right?

And how do I how do I get in so that I'm constantly learning and developing things rather than, right, just, let's release a single cigarette holder in, 9 different material ways, and then let's make a marble one, right? Which— and maybe that would be successful, I don't know, right? I'm not you. But to turn it to a question is, how do you find yourself in the right areas, or being constantly inspired, or just constantly, adopting that learner's mindset.

Do you have, I guess, any thoughts or process on how you're kind of constantly keeping a fresh mind while still having to sort of like flow your own ideas around? And I feel like it can start to be a little insular, but I'm just, I'm curious if any of that—

Benjamin Edgar [20:56]

It is insular. It absolutely can be really insular. Even talking about eating dinner by myself and things like that. I mean, that's just how I, that's how my brain works is like, I find some level of comfort in being insular. I'm learning, though, that like you can't be completely insular.

It's funny you bring up those events because a lot of those events, I'm not like nervous at those events, but I'm usually happy when they're over because I can kind of like, I'm not great at small talk and things like that. I'm typically more excited, like you and I tend to talk about products. Maybe you'll have the hat we made or a keychain or something. So we'll talk about those things, and that gives like a good context to talk about it.

I was out, I was out for a walk last night with Rotunda, who's become just like a kind of a pretty core part of the Object Company. And we were kind of musing on like, I don't even know how we end up where we end up sometimes. I think, if I, it's like, how did I meet all these interesting people in my life? How have I ended up in these circles?

The only thing I can surmise from it is, well, one, like the classics, like don't be an asshole and be curious. I think curiosity is a fountain of youth and kills most negative things in the human condition is curiosity. If you truly are curious, it's very difficult to be hateful or racist or all of those different things. But the other one is just to like do. I believe the spirit of creativity is to create, to make. And so I go back to like the idea thing.

I found myself in a lot of the corners and interesting places in life, and these people that I get to meet because I was a doer, even if it was like a really ugly example and half finished. Most of my friends are doers. They're makers. That's our kinship, I think. And we don't even have to like each other's work. It really doesn't matter actually at all. It's just that you did it.

So I don't know if that answers your question, but I've had, whenever someone like asks me for advice or like, how are you? How is this happening for you? I'm like, man, I don't know either. But the one difference I notice is that I have more, I have created more things and not from a materialistic standpoint. I'm just saying like I took an idea and completed it.

Christian Solorzano [23:10]

And have you always been like that? Because I know as a kid you were, you taught yourself to code at 13. And so maybe speak to us about what was your childhood like? Were you— have you always been making things? And maybe what was the culture that you, that you surrounded yourself?

I know skateboarding played a really big role, but are there any particular artifacts or objects that just left a, left a strong impression on you that you're— you might sort of be continuously inspired by, whether you know it or not?

Benjamin Edgar [23:50]

I think Legos. I mean, I know that's like kind of like, oh, it's a cute answer maybe, but I don't know. I mean, that's a— Legos are an interesting like stair-step thing. It's like, yeah, you either wanna play with them or you don't, right? Which is neither one is right or wrong, of course.

And then once you played with them and you built the set because you followed the framework that they built or the instructions that they built, you're done with it. Do you leave it as a model, or do you take it apart? Do you edit it? Do you, do you play with it more? Do you wish they made a different piece? And now you're starting to get into, I think the moment you feel restricted by Legos is probably a good thing.

'Cause you're like, I'm ready to do the next thing. I'm ready to play with something else. So they were a huge part of my childhood and I still feel this weird attraction to them when I see a box of them on a shelf or something. I think to me they're such an excellent place for almost anyone I know, whether you wanna be an engineer or an artist to begin expressing yourself. I don't know, I just, I found them very fun. They're very tactile.

They're not, they're not on a computer, which is kind of nice. I think physical. In terms of my like upbringing, yeah, I mean, skateboarding was huge. I think skateboarding— who's the, who's the director? Reading his name. He's got the really crazy voice. He did that movie about volcanoes.

Carson Koppin [25:06]

Werner Herzog.

Benjamin Edgar [25:07]

Yes. He did an interview where the guys from— man, what's— there was a skate magazine. Either way, they interviewed him. And it was— I don't know if you've seen it. If you haven't, when you jump off, check it out. And his voice, he's on a Zoom call and he's interacting with him.

He's like, I don't fully understand what you guys are doing with the skateboarding, but I know you're my people because you're being so repetitive and falling again and again and again until you get this trick. And it's completely freeform. It's not a team sport.

And I think he articulated really clearly from such an outside perspective what makes skateboarding seem to be so core in the creative industries. It's very expressive. It's very hard, extremely hard, physically painful, and the reward rate's pretty low. So I think I was very much conditioned by skateboarding. And then there's the community aspect of it, and there's a very tribal aspect. What brands do you wear? What size skateboard do you do? What kind of— are you a flip trick guy? Are you a stair set guy?

What are you into? So that was a big part of it. And then my parents, my parent, my father was a carpenter and a contractor. So I was around physical things being made, which is a big deal, I think, to watch something go from some ugly studs to a completely finished wall. And my mother was very into art, and we went on field trips and things like that. I was at the Art Institute quite a bit. So I feel very fortunate for that.

Carson Koppin [26:33]

I just did a small look, and it was Jen Kim or Yen Kim, however.

Benjamin Edgar [26:39]

I thought it was Jen Kim.

Carson Koppin [26:40]

Yeah, that ended up doing the interview. But speaking of specifically skateboarding, because I think like one thing that always sticks out to me with skateboarding in particular is like the boards or the t-shirt graphics or the work jackets. Did any of that merchandise or those objects speak to you in any particular way?

Benjamin Edgar [27:00]

Yes. Anything Powell Peralta back in the day, Bones Brigade was like huge for me.

Carson Koppin [27:06]

The—

Benjamin Edgar [27:07]

I would still— I should probably research it. I did see a technical drawing of it, but the Ripper, as it was called, it's a skeleton that rips through the screen or is ripping through a t-shirt or whatever, and then the Powell Peralta logo shows up underneath them. It's still incredibly interesting to me. There's— I don't know, some of it's nostalgia perhaps, but just incredible. And then I would love that kind of line drawing, almost tattoo-style drawing, and the crazy swords and the skulls.

But I never found that to be violent. I found it almost like it had like a sense of humor to it maybe, or a really theatrical sense to it. And then they would do their Swiss Bones bearings, which were probably my first introduction to quasi-Swiss design, right? Or that whole kind of like sans-serif approach. And I was like, this contrast between the Ripper and the Swiss Bones bearings was really intense.

And I, who knows, like maybe I'm discovering it right here as I'm talking, like an interest in contrast maybe came from that.

Christian Solorzano [28:04]

Yeah, so many, so many conversations that I have always speak about the skateboarding culture in the '90s, and I think there's been an everlasting ongoing revival of like the grunge aesthetic. I also see like filters, like Photoshop filters and all these different effects that will make your 2-dimensional like art piece like digitally appear as if it was printed and aged and all that kind of stuff.

So there, so there is like a huge, I think, appreciation. And I think even it's interesting to see younger generations that were born, in the 2000s, even them looking back at the '90s and really just connecting with a lot of that work. And I've been asking myself what, if I had to answer the question of like, what was the best decade for graphic design? I think for me, it would be, it would be the '90s. What significance do the '90s have for you?

Benjamin Edgar [29:00]

Probably a little bit of nostalgia. I mean, in the '90s, I was, I was, to date myself, I was 10 years old in '91. So you're starting to find some autonomy, right? And how you express yourself or the things that you're attracted to. I will caveat this though. I don't know if there's a best era, even though sometimes I think when we look back at history, there absolutely were best eras. But of any thing really. I just am so careful about nostalgia.

It's a really powerful drug, really comforting. And you're seeing it with rose-tinted lenses almost always because you— I don't know, maybe because our brains are good at forgetting the bad stuff or something, or the mediocre things that were occurring during that time. So, and I also think it really limits you this is, by the way, I'm not criticizing your question. I hope it doesn't sound like that.

I think it limits your view of the right now, and it limits your ability to create the new thing, because at some point that Bones Ripper or those Swiss bearings that I keep referencing were totally new designs, and they were totally— the creator was unsure. Maybe even their friends were unsure, and they did not know that they were creating a classic. So I think at any moment in time, at any second, in your current moment in life, you could be potentially creating something just as powerful.

Christian Solorzano [30:24]

Yeah, because it seems like a lot of the greatness about the '90s was mostly just how people were responding to the technology of the time. So it's more so like the process and like the ethos of creating that I think—

Benjamin Edgar [30:37]

CorelDRAW.

Christian Solorzano [30:38]

Yeah, like it's just, it's really fascinating. And I think I'm excited to see what people are going to be doing that— what people are doing today with things like such as, the AI or 3D printing or a lot of these newer technologies. Because it's the same spirit. Something new, what are you going to do?

Benjamin Edgar [30:55]

Absolutely same spirit. I agree with you.

Carson Koppin [30:57]

Well, I'd be curious, Ben, if you had any thoughts on like, I know this is kind of probably like the hot topic that everybody asks these questions in terms of just AI and things in design. Because I know like the series Chuck Anderson was putting out with those like kind of auto-filled, like different textures that he had generated through Photoshop.

And I remember seeing you comment of like, this feels like, you're really Taking the program, to 80, 90, 100% of the capability of what it can be used, right? Of like, before I'd seen that, I wasn't even, I wasn't even understanding how these things are being done. So just curious if you had any thoughts, if AI and those kind of things sparks any sort of interest in you.

Benjamin Edgar [31:36]

Yeah, the work that Chuck was doing, I believe it was the one that I was really attracted to, and he and I have been talking about how we could, might, create something together using it. But it was like, I believe, a screw going through marble. Or a screw growing through an ice cube or something like that. And yeah, his work, I mean, he pushes those programs to their absolute nth degree.

And I think most all of us probably use Illustrator at 5 to 8% of its capacity throughout the day. We don't, we're not using it. And it's really fun to watch what he's doing. My approach to AI, it's funny, Chuck and I were talking the other day, and he found some graphic thing I did. I think it was for the Brilliance, maybe.

So it must have been 2006 or something that I did this t-shirt, and it's like literally the exact same Helvetica Neue Condensed 57 that I use now. I mean, I am incredibly repetitive in my approach to things. It's really not that much by design. I just found that typeface, and I was like, cool, this is it. This is all we're gonna use. I can't imagine, I can't imagine needing anything else. So with that, though, there's a danger to get stuck when I look at AI.

I use it every day, which sounds crazy, but I'm using it every day because a lot, maybe not every day, but pretty often is for correcting photos.

And like the tiniest thing is if you've got, you need a little bit more margin on the side of this, gallery, let's say you took a photo of something on a plinth in a gallery with concrete floor and a white wall, and you need a little more space above or below when you're, putting it on social or putting up for a product page. Generative fill is pretty magic.

I mean, it is, it is reducing what used to be either impossible or hours of faking it and still being able to kind of tell that it, that it was there. So from a really technical standpoint, sure, I'm using it in terms of its aesthetic, because it already has an aesthetic, which is interesting, just how like NFTs had an aesthetic. We'll see if it sticks around. Is this the '90s of skateboarding for AI?

And we're gonna look back on this and be like, holy shit, this is what a wave. Maybe. I don't have a good answer because I haven't fallen in love with any of it yet in terms of me wanting to use it my own. And I find the uncanny valley thing affects me pretty intensely, just being direct and personal. There's images and things around, I don't like this.

And I, and it's like almost like my DNA is telling me I don't like it as opposed to like my aesthetics or something like that thing. It's triggering something in me that's so close to fake and so close to Real that we're struggling with how to, how to consume it. I think I also just like physical objects.

So it's like, I think so much of my life, I think in the weight of something, the temperature of something, and those things are not necessarily yet communicated by the AI aesthetic that we're familiar with.

Carson Koppin [34:19]

2 questions immediately off of what you were just saying there. I guess just one immediately responds to something that you had said in terms of like creating objects and moving things. Was it wasn't only like the material of something that you're hoping to convey an idea, but also the price of something, which I thought was a very interesting idea.

And I'm curious to know if you could, you could speak from that at all, of as like the price of an object is something to express an idea. I thought that was fascinating.

Benjamin Edgar [34:48]

I have so many friends who are like sick of me texting and being like, how much should this cost? Or how much should retail be? And they're like, well, how much did it cost to make? I'm like, no, we're not gonna do that. We're gonna say what is like a reasonable and we'll figure out, I'll either make lower margin or I'll be really lucky and I'll make a, I'll make a good margin.

The cigarette holders, for example, I think my cost is like landed there about $29. So I'm not going crazy with that. Then there's some packaging and some shipping and things like that. So we don't make like crazy money on those. But then I have other items that are higher margin. Then I have stuff like the mug, the stainless steel mug that I think is like $400 that I think I lost money on when I sold them.

I think the first kind of production, or they're $425 or something to produce them, let alone the packaging and stuff. In terms of a tool, yeah, it's hard to ignore that money is a form of communication. So it's like if I make my cigarette holder $1,000 and I only sell one, that person who has it and pulls it out at night, it's like, holy shit, you got this $1,000 cigarette holder. That's insane. And I think it becomes something much different.

If you make it just precious enough at $100 or $110 where I have it right now, I think it becomes less throwaway. It doesn't end up in your junk drawer. I think you take the purchase a little bit more serious. Yeah, another Koons thing. He gets asked all the time about his prices, and I don't even know if I agree with him on this, but I thought it was an interesting answer.

He was like, the more expensive something is, the better chance that humanity will protect it for a really long period of time. And there's a, there's a lot going on in that answer. I mean, you can, you can pull a lot out of that, I think. So I think it's clearly a tool.

I just think, for me personally, with the Object Company, I would much prefer my items to be in people's hands and in their pockets, or them using them, and hopefully them using them and not worrying about damaging them too much. Maybe a scuff on a bag, or, wearing the hat until it's super sweaty, or, those kinds of things to me are more interesting to have people consuming them.

So it's this, it's this very minute balance of what's the right price to make sure that it seems special, but that it's not painful and that it's not pretentious in terms of how much it costs and that there's some level of accessibility.

Carson Koppin [37:08]

Kind of got one more here that I'd like to ask you. And then I think definitely something we'd like to do here at the end is kind of just like some quickfire. But I think, of course, we had to theme it towards the brilliance, knowing, the interview questions y'all would ask quickly. But before we jump into those, kind of the last more concepty question I wanted to ask, and this is totally self-indulgent. Why Internet Blue?

I feel like there's so many different colors and so many things and you play in lots of different schemes, but why Internet Blue? That one, that one seems particular.

Benjamin Edgar [37:39]

It is back for all my Windows 3.1 heads, maybe even Windows 95. It is the Ctrl+Alt+Delete screen. So it's just like the purest so like you have 3 pixels, right? RGB. I believe it's just the B turned on, if I'm not mistaken. So it's very clean, very pure. And then QBasic, which was the first, which was Microsoft's version of BASIC, the programming language, their editor, I believe, background color was RGB blue, or what's the hex? 4 zeros and 2 Fs, I think.

I don't know. It just speaks to me. I mean, it's— I was, I was at the MoMA, and we saw there was an Yves Klein piece there. I don't find— I don't think it's even like the same color in my brain. It— the internet blue, and people like, oh, if you could make it, make some object internet blue, and well, you almost can't, because it's a, it's a projected color rather than a, than a pigment.

So it'll never really look like what it looks like on the screen. And also I'm wondering if a little bit later in life, this is coming to be a little bit clearer to me on my obsession with one RGB and also like yellows and oranges and these safety colors is like I'm colorblind to a decent amount. Like those dots with the numbers in them, like the circles with the dots and the numbers in them.

The test that they do, I took it when I was 7 and I was like, I thought it was a joke. I was like, there's no numbers in these things. This is like insane. What are you and I just took one the other day and I can see like, 15% of them. So something must be going on that makes me interested in really vivid colors rather than tonality. So.

Carson Koppin [39:20]

Thank you for the, for the insight there. Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna switch gears a little bit here to these kind of, these rapid-fire questions that we kind of start to get to the end here and really wanted to respect your time, and you've got that hard time.

Benjamin Edgar [39:32]

No, by the way, I really appreciate this. This has been an amazing conversation. Conversation so far. I'm very thankful.

Carson Koppin [39:35]

Absolutely. And thank you for being here. So my first one is like 6 projects next year. Does that, does that still sound right for you?

Benjamin Edgar [39:44]

I've got, I think I've got 2 done, 2 or 3 done. Yeah, still maybe more because I didn't really do that many this year actually, in all fairness.

Carson Koppin [39:51]

Favorite Chicago neighborhood?

Benjamin Edgar [39:52]

Gold Coast, downtown.

Carson Koppin [39:53]

Favorite material?

Benjamin Edgar [39:54]

316 stainless steel.

Carson Koppin [39:56]

Favorite Chicago building?

Benjamin Edgar [39:58]

And the Mies stuff is great, right? Like it's I don't know. I mean, I, when you're coming from north, from the north side and you're on Lakeshore Drive and you're coming in and you kind of, the skyline really becomes quite apparent to you and then you start getting closer and closer. I believe the Drake is a Benjamin Marshall designed building. I really like pre-war architecture or Rosario Candela stuff.

So I don't know, weirdly, maybe the Drake from the other side, not the entry side, but the other side.

Carson Koppin [40:23]

Did the Flamingo inspire the keychains? The I-beam keychains, the main, the large sculpture in Federal Plaza.

Benjamin Edgar [40:30]

Oh no. Interesting. Wow. I hadn't thought about that. No, the I-beam keychains were first part of a deal I did with Notre where they wanted, we were, I was like, let's celebrate some Mies architecture. No one's really kind of talking about it in a streetwear sense. So we did these t-shirts. Reed Schmidt and I shot these photos at various different, Mies buildings in the city, and I just can't leave well enough alone. So I was like, we have to make a keychain.

And, I was like, what else would you possibly make but an I-beam to celebrate his work? And so we found a manufacturer in Pennsylvania that did those. They're now made in Shenzhen. But no, that was purely to celebrate Mies.

Carson Koppin [41:12]

As somebody who's like becoming obsessed with his work more and more this year, just like every Barcelona chair is like a beaming highlight, I have to say. Thank you for that. Uber or Lyft, and what's your rating?

Benjamin Edgar [41:25]

I'm Lyft because I have Lyft Pink, because that gets you like the Divvy membership and that's Citi Bike as well. And I'm pulling up my rating in New York and I think Miami too, but I don't use them in Miami. I was like an Uber guy forever, and you can connect your Delta account on Lyft. I'm 5.0. Wow, look at that star rating.

Carson Koppin [41:49]

Look at this guy. Perfect gold stars.

Benjamin Edgar [41:52]

Well, cuz I don't use cars all that much. I'm not in a car. I'm usually on a bike and the bikes can't give you a negative review. If they could, trust me, they would. Cuz I jump those things and skid them all over the place.

Carson Koppin [42:00]

Do a kickflip on the bike real quick. And last one here, are there any questions you feel you haven't been asked? I feel like you've been, you've been a part of a lot of things. You've interviewed a lot of people. And you've asked a lot of questions and learned a lot of things from other people, but is there anything you feel like you haven't been asked that you've wanted to talk about and you've been ready to speak your mind on?

Benjamin Edgar [42:21]

This is where my— it's funny, as I feel like it's such an ego thing to be like, you know what, you know what, no one's asked me before and they should. I don't really have that, but yeah, I did a lot of stuff. I spoke more this year than I ever— like, I've done 3 podcasts or something. Spoke at 3 universities, which is like, 3 more on both categories than last year. So I, one, I find it interesting that anyone wants to interview me.

I look at these more as conversations than I do, someone with some sort of wisdom to impart. The only wisdom I have to impart is just do it, domino effect stuff in life is very real. So something that someone hasn't asked me, what my favorite Rolling Stones song is. I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [43:13]

And what's the song? You're really into the history of the Rolling Stones, right?

Benjamin Edgar [43:17]

Yeah. Probably Connection. Or either Connection, which is very kind of a weird one, or Gimme Shelter. Probably if gun to head, Gimme Shelter, I think.

Carson Koppin [43:28]

Well, that was everything I had. Christian, was there anything you wanted to add kind of before we Close out here officially.

Christian Solorzano [43:36]

Yeah, my, I guess my final question, and it might be, might be a big question, but I'd like if you can to maybe walk us through like, what is it? What does a typical day in your life look like? Break down your routine for us.

Benjamin Edgar [43:49]

It's getting more structured. It used to be a little, there was times where I could be quite listless and I've, I think that we all celebrate listlessness because it feels like it should be really relaxing and nice. Learned that I've been fortunate enough to experience it for long periods of time. It's really not that much fun after a while. It's, it can end up being pretty boring. So I wake up painfully early whether I want to or not. My body wakes up around like 5-ish.

I try and stay in bed till 6. I try and get 8 hours every night. I know that's quite popular to talk about, but I really, I really do. And my life feels so much better when I do. My ideas are clearer to me. I'm very like organized in the morning. Get up, we, take a shower, we do the face care and skincare routine, make the bed, do all those kinds of things. Maybe a podcast depending on the day.

But podcasts for me are before work has really begun. There is some email checking going on mobile at this point, but the computer doesn't open up until probably 9, 8 or 9, I would say. I try and go for a walk every single morning with my coffee. I don't make coffee at home. I try and go for a walk to go get the coffee. Cold, hot, indifferent. If I can, I walk down to the lake because I live right on the Gold Coast.

It's not too far for me to walk down to the lake, just a loop there and back. Yeah. And then the, then the emails and stuff kick in. I skip lunch. I don't eat breakfast either. I have an early dinner. I try and stop working pretty religiously. I try and really stop working at 5:30 or 6, sometimes earlier. Yeah, I try and just like work through the day and then intersperse with a couple walks if I'm feeling stuck.

And then it's off. Yeah, it's off to a dinner. Typically somewhere I can walk to. Then documentaries at night, man, that sounds so boring, but I love it.

Christian Solorzano [46:00]

Do you have any guilty pleasures? Anything that you'd be embarrassed to admit?

Benjamin Edgar [46:05]

Single cigarette after dinner, paying too much for like Delta Comfort upgrades, something like that. Like totally stupid. It's like you're gonna be on this thing for like 2 hours and you're, it's like it doesn't really matter. Guilty pleasure. A little bit of a hoarder with the books.

It was like, it's kind of getting a little overwhelming at my apartment. What's another guilty pleasure? I don't know. I don't do it so much anymore cuz I just said that like, I don't really use Lyft for cars as much, but I have a guilty pleasure. If I'm having a particularly bad day or I'm feeling frustrated or it's cold, I will get a black car. When I definitely don't need to get one. And I'm always like a little embarrassed after, that was ridiculous.

Why didn't you do that?

Carson Koppin [46:54]

Gotta pull up in the spaceship. I mean, sometimes you're just, you just need to take yourself.

Benjamin Edgar [46:59]

No one wants to pull up in front of a nice restaurant and get the Toyota Sienna picking you up.

Carson Koppin [47:03]

It's like you're getting dropped off at soccer practice, but, it's like, yeah, that might not be the most classy way to pull up to the Raffle Around restaurant.

Benjamin Edgar [47:11]

Yeah, you can drop me off a block early. I'll walk the rest of the way.

Christian Solorzano [47:14]

Thank you so much, Ben. This was great. And I'm so glad that we got to speak and I hope that in 2024, the Chicago Graphic Design Club could maybe do some sort of collaboration with you somehow. So definitely our doors are always open.

Benjamin Edgar [47:28]

I'd be honored. Again, I'm really like honored to be invited on. I appreciate, I really appreciate the really kind of more philosophical-based questions and giving me a platform to talk about that or have a conversation with both of you about that. This was really enjoyable. I'm walking away feeling inspired about Thank you so much. Yeah, we'll see you guys around.

Christian Solorzano [47:48]

All right, talk soon.

Benjamin Edgar [47:49]

Have a good one.

Christian Solorzano [47:51]

What a fun conversation that was. Thank you so much, Ben Edgar, for joining us and for, yeah, just spending some time together speaking with us about all the things that we love. And for you, the listener we are getting ready to finalize and get our publication into production. So if you are unaware, the Chicago Graphic Design Club is launching its first publication called Faculty, and pre-orders are now available to be made. So please visit our website at www.chicagographicdesignclub.com to secure a copy.

We are running a very limited production, so yeah, get one before they're all sold out. You can find more information on our website. Talk soon.