Christian Solorzano [00:00]

Hello, you are listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and on today's episode, I have the pleasure of speaking with Betsy, the founder of the independent type design studio Queer Type, which is based out of Detroit.

And most recently, Betsy was one of the speakers at Cold Style, which is a series by the Chicago Graphic Design Club that focuses on the work and the process behind typeface designers that are doing pretty incredible work, not just here in Chicago, but in other places in the Midwest. And Betsy was one of those speakers, and it was truly a pleasure to see all of the work that went into his most recent release, Antiphony, which was the highlight of that talk that he gave.

And which we're going to be talking about in this episode. So in this conversation, Betsy also shares a lot of his inspiration, his process, and the journey that he wants to go from graphic designer to typeface designer. And it's just a really cool conversation. I had a lot of fun learning more about him. And as always, if you enjoy conversations like this, we really appreciate your support.

And you can do so by sharing this episode wherever you can and also leaving us a rating wherever you listen. It really helps us reach a broader audience, and it also just helps us know that you appreciate what we do. So thank you and enjoy the conversation. We'll talk to you soon. Welcome, Betsy. I am very delighted that you're speaking with us today.

Betsy Schuster [01:42]

Yeah, I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Christian Solorzano [01:46]

And usually when we do these episodes, one of the rules is that we only speak with Chicago people, but you're an exception because you gave a— you, you've been, you've been a friend of the Chicago Graphic Design Club for since I met you earlier this year. You came to our first Type Talk at Public Works Gallery in February. I believe. And then you were a speaker at our last one that happened, I think, in June or May.

I feel like time is— yeah, I don't know what time it was.

Betsy Schuster [02:21]

It was.

Christian Solorzano [02:22]

But and you gave such a— I feel like you, at that event, you were the last speaker. And I, and I think you kind of just— it was so great to see, to see examples of like different people's approach to typography. There was someone that was doing like more DIY fonts there is one that was coming more from like a justice social justice angle. There's graffiti and, urban culture. And then there was you who presented this very— this like mastery and like craft and like precision.

And it was just— it was so cool. It was so cool. And I don't know if you— you— I think you saw this, but right after that talk that you gave we purchased the font.

Betsy Schuster [03:13]

Yeah, thank you so much.

Christian Solorzano [03:15]

We, and we used it for one of our Social Hour graphics. And I, and I told Alexis about it at the talk. I'm like, don't tell Betsy this, but after this talk, I'm gonna go buy the fonts and we're gonna go use it. And I want Betsy to like just randomly see it in the wild.

Betsy Schuster [03:34]

Yes, to me it was great.

Christian Solorzano [03:36]

So that isn't the last time that we're gonna use it. We're gonna keep sprinkling it throughout. So Great.

Betsy Schuster [03:41]

Yeah, I need to update it, huh?

Christian Solorzano [03:45]

And it's, and it's so fun to work with. Oh good. What I did with it was I just, I typed the characters that I needed and I converted them to outlines, and then I just like adjusted them to kind of what I, what I wanted it to say, which I believe that when you were presenting and I'll include some samples of this in for this episode so that people can see what I'm talking about.

But you were speaking about how— I believe someone asked you, how do you wish your font be used by people? And you shared a few examples that were a little bit more on the poetic, and it feels like a very poetic typeface.

Betsy Schuster [04:31]

Yeah, it's not for, reading a book in of course it's for display, but it's so out there and kind of expressive and unusual. And that's kind of what I was going for, that I think it fits like something where you take a little more time with the text and let it sit with you. So yeah. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [04:55]

So given that you, you're working on this, on this typeface and your background is in graphic design and visual communication, I would love to hear about your first encounter with graphic design, or what is your earliest memory of you experiencing visual communication for the first time, whether you knew that it was called graphic design. But do you have a memory of the first time you saw something that just kind of stopped you and captivated you?

Betsy Schuster [05:27]

It's a good question because Basically, I chose to go into graphic design when I went to college because before then, my whole portfolio was actually— I was doing darkroom photography.

So, my high school was lucky enough to have a darkroom and enlargers and everything like all the way it used to be done and I was really into that. And then I was like, well, I don't know if I can make it as a fine art photographer. So, I decided to try to do something a little more commercial, and I went into graphic design. And I thought it was great because I could combine photography with typography and solve problems.

So I found that very fulfilling in a way. As far as something that inspired me though, it's hard to say. I can't pinpoint one specific thing.

Christian Solorzano [06:24]

Yeah, but what were you into? I'm— I feel like Childhood or just being a teenager, like there's parts in someone's life that are so like defining, and whether it's like discovering a band or like reading a book or like obsessing over an artist. What was the world of Betsy, let's say, coming of age? What were some of the pivotal moments that you look back on as being like just defining moments that shaped yeah.

Betsy Schuster [06:57]

Well, so music has been a big part of my life. And I know that like up until all through middle school, like I never really listened to music. I just never like had a reason to or I never thought it like anything fit me as far as what I wanted to listen to. And then like in high school, I started listening to like dubstep and stuff, when that was all coming out. I was like, yo, this is sick.

And then like— And then I was actually at an art class in I forget the name of it, but I was painting like a dress or something on a canvas, and the art teacher put on the PJ Harvey album is this Desire? And I was like, what is this? I've never heard anything like this. And after the class was over, I went over and like I found the CD. I was like, what is this? And I looked it up. I was, I was like Super young.

I was like 14 or something, and I started listening to PJ Harvey, and I was like, what? It totally blew my mind. And from there, I think it's sort of— that's where my taste in music and art kind of developed from.

Christian Solorzano [08:05]

Yeah. And has your interest in graphic design— does it overlap with other— because I, I've seen— I, before this conversation, I went through your entire Instagram and I was looking at how you, you've blended your fascination with typography with jewelry. Yeah, I've seen like some of the earrings that you've posted. So is jewelry— and I believe those were earrings that you designed, right? Through yeah, Queer Type, right?

Betsy Schuster [08:41]

Yes. Yeah. Okay. Well, at first it was Queer Fonts because Queer Type was taken.

Then I eventually, I was like, yeah, I'll rebrand. I'll go to Queer Type because I think it's better. But I just added the.co to the end. So I was like, yeah, it is what it is. But yeah, it used to be Queer Fonts. And I got into jewelry. I just like had the idea on a whim. I basically, I sketched the word like slut just, and I was like, what if it was an earring? And I just made a quick little sketch.

With like my logo and the earrings. And I brought it to— there's this really great market, like a weekend, like art market in Ferndale. It's north of Detroit. It's called the Rust Belt Market. And I have a friend there at this little store called Outer Space Ways. And I was like, hey, do you think like this would be cool? And she was like, wait, yeah, that's a great idea. And I would sell it in my store.

And I was like, what? And then I just got prototypes made like as soon as I could from at that time I knew a guy, Tate Design Co. Matt Tate. He had a laser cutter for his business and I got some like prototypes made like in a couple days and I came back there and I was like, look, I have earrings. And she was like shocked that I was able to do it so quickly. But yeah, that's kind of how it started.

And then yeah, it grew from there.

Christian Solorzano [10:11]

Yeah. And with graphic design, at what point did you, did you feel like you've made the deliberate choice to like have that be a career that you pursue? I would say, was there ever anything else that you consider doing?

Betsy Schuster [10:29]

Yeah, I was kind of a graphic designer, not of passion, but of like necessity.

Unfortunately, I can't say like graphic design is my passion. It was always like something that I was like pretty good at so that I just continued doing, but I never could like figure out a way to really make like tell stories with my graphic design. It was always solving issues for other people. I did, as I was a graphic designer, I always was really interested in textiles and music, of course, and photography still.

I still was doing film photography, but it was always like, these are my hobbies and then this is my job. So I never pursued them as a career. Until I found type design. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [11:27]

And do you have a recollection of like the first thing that you ever created that you were really proud of? Or that kind of like solidified like the concept of like, this is what I want to do, or this is, like for me it was, I made a, I designed a birth, like a Mother's Day poster for my mom, like Microsoft Paint or something. Like when I was like 8 years old, I believe.

Betsy Schuster [12:00]

Yeah, I do have a project that I remember that was pretty impactful for me personally. I am someone that has struggled with disordered eating when I was younger, like going into my first year of college. And I don't know if it could ever have been like quantified as an eating disorder, but I did— I was having a lot of trouble with that.

So I did a poster about, a really big poster about, tracking calories and nothing tastes as good as skinny feels and all of these photos of models and things. And that was, that was impactful for me to kind of sort of parse out what was going on in my head about that topic and try to find my way through that. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [12:52]

Yeah. And this was this during or before your design education?

Betsy Schuster [12:59]

This was in college. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [13:04]

And then, and then at what point does typography— like, there's this fascination with not only working with type— like, we all as designers, we all love using fonts, but I think making your own and Doing a program on making your own is like a whole different level because it's so difficult.

Betsy Schuster [13:23]

And it's— Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [13:24]

And often when I, whenever I see a designer talk about their fonts, I just imagine them like in the dark, like just hunched over, just like fine-tuning like all the little details because I know how intricate that they can be, especially when you're designing them. For like when, especially when you have someone teaching you how to do these things that is going to have a critical eye and it's going to like, tell you what's wrong or what's right.

So how does that interest in making type get introduced to you?

Betsy Schuster [14:01]

Yeah, I always remember like in school and outside of school, I was always more interested in the type and then the actual design that I was doing. So I, would spend more time picking the font than the layout and trying to find like a typeface that suits perfectly for this purpose.

And I've always been interested in type, but my first projects— I think every type designer kind of starts in a similar way where you make a font out of modular pieces and all of a sudden, like in a few minutes, you have something you can type with. And that was like super exciting to me. And I think that's what's great about type design is that it's really for everyone, right?

Like anyone can make a font in like a few hours and you can type with it and you can design with it. But what kind of grabbed— or what, that's not a word— grasped me with type design, I think, was just how deep it goes because there's always more you can learn, right? Everywhere I looked, there's more resources, there's more like topics of discussion. And then also like the cultural aspect of it too.

Like everywhere had their own writing tool and developed their own way of making typography. And that really inspired me as well. And how like language develops and everything.

Christian Solorzano [15:31]

And for you, was it something that you felt came natural to you, or was it— did you struggle with?

Betsy Schuster [15:39]

No, it all— like, every single thing about it made sense to me. So I felt like, oh, this is my calling? I found my thing that I'm like really good at and like every part of my skill set like works with. So yeah, I was really fortunate, I guess.

Christian Solorzano [15:57]

Yeah, I've tried, I've tried making fonts and it's just so complicated. Yeah, to the point where I said what if I just make a really bad font and like that's kind of the thing about it is that it's just bad. I could do that.

Betsy Schuster [16:18]

Yeah, well, I mean, there's no bad fonts. Yeah, I mean, there's, I guess Fonts with a bad usage. But yeah.

Christian Solorzano [16:26]

And right now on the camera, it looks like you have a big asterisk, right above your head.

Betsy Schuster [16:30]

Yes. Yes, it's perfect. My ceiling fan.

Christian Solorzano [16:35]

Dig it. So with Queer Type, you mentioned that before it was called Queer Fonts, and then it became Queer Type. And Queer Fonts produced, let's say, accessories, like earrings. What are your hopes with Queer Type? Right now it's listed as an independent type design studio founded by Bethany.

Betsy Schuster [16:57]

So the reason for the switch from Queer Fonts to Queer Type is that I just think it's more broad, right? Fonts is so specific, this is it.

But then type, I feel like I really want to kind of get back into more like multimedia-like projects and working with other materials, and whether that's shirts or ceramics or just artwork in general, collaborating with other artists and making— my vision for Queer Type is more of like a marketplace where you can buy fonts or you can buy stuff that comes with fonts, or you can buy, any number of things as long as it's typography, type-related expression, all that fun stuff. So yeah.

Christian Solorzano [17:42]

And do you plan on having it always just be Betsy, or do you imagine that at some point it could kind of be like this collaborative? How is multiple people like maybe contributing to Queer Type?

Betsy Schuster [17:56]

I would love that. I mean, it's not in the cards right now. Right now it's a, it's a one-man show, but who knows down the line.

Christian Solorzano [18:04]

Yeah, but yeah, because I think what's unique about your type design studio is that it— there, I feel when I look at the body of work it's like on a spectrum, you have your like unnamed serif, which is very, buttoned up, like legible fonts. But then you also have your most recent one, Tiffany, right?

Betsy Schuster [18:33]

Yes. Yes.

Christian Solorzano [18:34]

And Tiffany, which is more like ornate. Then you got Polly and like you have even lettering in it. And I feel like your, the breadth of what you cover seems very multi— It doesn't feel like it's just all in one lane. It feels very—

Betsy Schuster [18:51]

Yeah, very vast. Yeah, that's a good point. I should probably focus.

Christian Solorzano [18:55]

No, and I'm not saying—

Betsy Schuster [18:58]

No, I know, I know, I know. I would like to— right now it's basically a lot of my student work and a lot of some fun stuff I'm doing just to show some stuff. But I would like to sort of find a lane like you said and sort of find a niche. But I— that's the problem though, is I'm interested in everything.

So it's tough. Yeah, so basically I'm interested in anything that is like extreme, right? So whether it's like extremely boring, I'm like, that's my thing. Like extremely legible, like yo, that's really cool. Or like extremely expressive, I'm like, yes please, let's go that way. Just anything that's like As far, like a logical extreme, like the most furthest boundary you can find. I want to go there. Yeah. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [19:48]

So, yeah. And how do you— so for you, Betsy, how do you define an extreme? Or how, what's that sweet spot for you? Or how do you know when you're working on something, for example, what criteria, or how do you know when something's done? And how do you know when you're in the right direction?

Because I feel like as designers, we— I think second-guessing ourselves is like just part of our calling, is that we— maybe you don't do that, but I think, yeah, just second-guessing or just sometimes just being uncertain about the vastly different paths that we can take. So for you, how do you, how do you define that you're in the right general area when you're initiating your working on a project?

Betsy Schuster [20:41]

I think type is great for that because for me, I know there's a lot of people who have different opinions on this, but for me, like in my own work personally, I like to make type that I can read.

And there's amazing designers who do a lot of like really beautiful, illegible work, and I wish I could work that way, but I am like hardwired to say like, if I can't read it and other people can't read it, what am I doing? So I— that's kind of like the limiting factor, right? So if I'm drawing a bold and I'm like, what if I make it 3 times as bold?

Then I do that, and then it's like, well, now it's just a mess and you can't parse out anything like what it says. And then that's your limiting factor. So you have to scale it back a little bit and like force it into this mold of like, can you read it, right? So that is kind of what helped me a lot in Antiphony when I was making that because I was like, well, how far italic can I go?

I was like, okay, well, 45 degrees, that's pretty italic. And I guess I could have gone further, but then at that point it's like it's just really out there. So that was like my limiting factor was 45 degrees. And then I was like, well, how bold can I go? And it's just kind of devolved from there. Yeah.

But even like in my process book, I was like, this was supposed to be like a black weight, but it ended up being a bold, which is like, it's not ideal, but, it just ends up going that way when you have to make a system that works cohesively.

Christian Solorzano [22:18]

And you also did like a backwards italic as well.

Betsy Schuster [22:22]

Yeah, there's different words for it, like contra-italic, reverse italic. I've called it both. I don't know if there's like a consensus, but yeah, that was really fun to work on. Yeah, really cool.

Christian Solorzano [22:38]

So, and by the way, when I was mentioning about Queer Type just being very vast, that was like a positive assessment. It was not.

Betsy Schuster [22:49]

I know, I know, but yeah, I understand. Thank you.

Christian Solorzano [22:53]

I like that because I find myself also, I struggle as well with sometimes narrowing things down. I, very similar to you, I like extremes and anything in between I'm— I kind of easily get bored by. So I can, I can totally relate. So then as far as, you— we were talking about your typography work, but then also I'm curious about just graphic design in general.

Is that something that you, that you still find yourself like actively practicing, whether it's like commercial graphic design or what's your relationship with just graphic design as like a thing that money is tied to?

Betsy Schuster [23:36]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I learned Figma recently, actually. I'm a little late to the party, but it's—

Christian Solorzano [23:42]

How do you like it, by the way?

Betsy Schuster [23:43]

I think it's nice. It's better than XD, that's for sure. So that's been a joy to learn. So yeah, I mean, I'm still doing like client work and things to pay the bills, but nothing like very— like the most fun I have with graphic design is making like posts for using my fonts and things. So yeah.

Christian Solorzano [24:03]

And then as far as inspiration, where does Betsy grab inspiration from?

Betsy Schuster [24:10]

Everywhere. I could see like a cool plant and I'm like, that's cool. Like maybe I conceal that shape, or any weird, handwriting. I love handwriting. Please show me your handwriting if we meet again. When we meet again. I get so many, weird, letter constructions from handwriting and looking at, other scripts and things and looking at how other people write, and I find it fascinating. So, and of course music I'm very inspired by.

I have, a whole series of unfinished fonts that are, inspired by songs or inspired by musicians.

Christian Solorzano [24:50]

Especially, Singer-songwriters. Like who?

Betsy Schuster [24:53]

Oh, I love Laura Nyro. I like Suzanne Vega. Who else did they make a font of? Cat Power. All of the like awesome, like ladies that make really moody, awesome music. Yeah. Dig it.

Christian Solorzano [25:14]

So paint a picture for us. When you're working on type, what is your environment like? Music, listening to music? Are you drinking? What are you drinking? Is it in the morning, nighttime?

Betsy Schuster [25:31]

Oh, I work best very late at night, like 2 AM, playing music or just having something on in the background. And my desk is always a complete mess. I am a mess. Sometimes I'm shocked, like when I stand up, I'm like, there's just Sketches over here. There's a pile of paper here. There's like all these books piled up. I'm like, what is going on? You are a mess. But I think I kind of thrive in that, in the chaos. So, okay.

Christian Solorzano [26:01]

So music late at night and just like a big pile of mess.

Betsy Schuster [26:06]

Yes, exactly. That's me. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [26:09]

I like it.

Betsy Schuster [26:11]

I like it. I'm—

Christian Solorzano [26:11]

I feel like My desk right now I'm looking at and there's a lot of stuff here as well. So, and even if I, even when I organize it, like within a few hours, like things— So what is it? What, so with Antiphanie, what's the latest on, it was recently like released through Future Fonts, which Future Fonts to me is like just such a cool project in general.

Betsy Schuster [26:38]

I agree. Yep.

Christian Solorzano [26:39]

And I just love their model and the fact that— Yeah.

Betsy Schuster [26:44]

And Travis and Lizzie are like the best. They're so cool. Yeah. They're super like— they allow you to kind of do— like it's almost hands-off in a way. Like you can direct the movie. So it's really cool.

Christian Solorzano [27:00]

And I discovered that Lizzie is from Chicago.

Betsy Schuster [27:03]

I didn't know that. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [27:05]

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Betsy Schuster [27:06]

Yeah, I think— are they both in Portland? Seattle? Where are they?

Christian Solorzano [27:11]

Those over there.

Betsy Schuster [27:12]

Oh, over there somewhere. Beautiful Pacific Northwest.

Christian Solorzano [27:16]

So what's the latest with that? I have my copy and I'm just waiting for— I'm just, I'm dying with anticipation of what's to come. So what's the latest in the font world.

Betsy Schuster [27:33]

Over to Betsy. Yeah, I— well, what's funny is I find it difficult to work on Antipathy because— not because I don't love it, because it's a, it's a really fun— it's like my baby. I love it. It's great. But for those who don't know, it was my graduation project for Type and Media. And Type and Media is just super intense, and you're so close to it at all times.

And then once you leave for a little bit or you take a hiatus, it's really hard to go back to it. So I did like touch it up for Future Fonts. But yeah, right now I'm— I am working on a few other fonts as a breather. That's your break.

Christian Solorzano [28:13]

Your break from working on one font is to work on other fonts.

Betsy Schuster [28:16]

Exactly. Well, it's every type designer has like a folder of 100 unfinished fonts they may or may not go back to.

Christian Solorzano [28:25]

So, and for people that are interested, let's say, in producing a font or like just dipping their hand into the world of creating their own, their own font, what's your recommendation for someone just like getting started?

Betsy Schuster [28:46]

Yeah, well, there's a few avenues because anyone, can make a font with modular pieces, which is fun. I've made many myself, and you can do a lot of fun stuff with modular pieces. Like if anyone's curious in really amazing modular typefaces, check out Daytona Mess and Dauphine.

She's my friend, and she does variable fonts with like components that they're very simple looking, but then when you put them all together and you can animate them and they just explode or blow up and do all these amazing things. So you could start there with glyphs is a great tool.

Or if you're really interested in more of like a historical aspect of type design, you can study like calligraphy models and practice sketching based on calligraphy models, because calligraphy is really great when you're holding like a broad nib pen or a brush, you can really get a feel for how the strokes— like how the outer and inner sides of the stroke relate to each other and how they can create shapes and create letters. And that can give you a more foundational sort of understanding.

And there's a lot of great books too on like type design theory and practice.

Christian Solorzano [30:10]

Yeah, I dig it. The first that your friend's font, you said it's called Daytona Mess.

Betsy Schuster [30:16]

That's her studio. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [30:17]

Okay, Daytona. Okay, cool. I will look that up, and everyone else listening, look it up as well. Yeah. So we've talked about your early memories with graphic design, typography, some of your commercial design work, and so forth. But outside of, the— what you're, what you're doing, I imagine, is like such a demanding practice, like not just on your mind, but I'm assuming just on your body as well, like sitting on the computer for like hours.

Doing the stuff. So how do you, when you're, when you're not working or when you're not thinking about this stuff, what are other things that just kind of help keep you grounded and not, going insane?

Betsy Schuster [31:07]

I mean, Hikes are great. Spending time in nature, of course, is lovely. My parents have a lovely black Labrador retriever. His name's Rugby, and he's very cute. He's the best friend of every man, so he helps me stay sane. And then, working on stuff that isn't design, it really helps. So I've been recently, I've been quilting. That's my grandmother used to quilt.

She had so many fabrics that she left behind when she passed away in 2019, and they've just kind of been sitting in boxes for years. And now, I'm finally like, I want to make some stuff. And she used to make like little coasters. I don't have any with me right now. Maybe I do. Oh, here's some that I'm working on right now. I'm actually working on some Palestine-themed ones.

I want to do a little fundraiser, so but I have to make them first, so I'm working on those right now. But these are little coasters, and these are all my grandmother's fabrics. Yeah, so that's been a really fun thing to do when I'm not designing.

Christian Solorzano [32:18]

Yeah, because the one, the one, my first impression when I first met you was definitely very fashionable.

Betsy Schuster [32:29]

That is— so my wardrobe is like 99% like t-shirt and jeans, and then my 1% is what I whip out for like special occasions, like talking. So, but thank you so much. I definitely want to get more into fashion.

Christian Solorzano [32:45]

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely like a big overlap between everything that you're talking about, like your typefaces, textile patterns.

Betsy Schuster [32:57]

And I think, yeah, so yeah, it's on my list of things to get into because I am cursed and blessed with wanting to do so many things. I just have so many interests that I want to do at some point in my life, but I don't have time for it. But if I could be good at one thing, it's type design. And then like, if it's 2 things, it's, type and music. And if it's 3 things, it's Type, music, fashion, photography ceramics, the list goes on.

So yeah.

Christian Solorzano [33:29]

It's overwhelming. It's such a— I feel like when I speak with designers about this, it's such it's an overwhelming feeling to sometimes have so many interests because I don't know if this happens to you, but sometimes you just kind of become paralyzed and you're just, what to do, or you don't just— you just don't do anything because you don't know what to do first. And that happens quite too often to me.

Betsy Schuster [34:00]

Yeah. But I think at some point you have to sort of pick. Yeah, like prioritize. Because I do remember he was talking more about in type design you can specialize into more like drawing, or you can do more like on the technical side of things, like font engineering and things. But Peter Bielak told me you really need to focus on one thing. And I think he was talking about graphic design as well.

If you're doing type and graphic design, you're building your skills in both of those at the same time, but you're also like, if you don't focus on one, then you're gonna kind of fall behind. Oh, it's kind of a tough thing to choose, like what you really focus on and what you want to do with your life.

Christian Solorzano [34:54]

So, but then sometimes you see people that are doing both and they're just like freaking excelling at both.

Betsy Schuster [35:02]

Yeah, like Renaissance man over here.

Christian Solorzano [35:07]

So you and I are both you're vegetarian or vegan, right?

Betsy Schuster [35:14]

Okay.

Christian Solorzano [35:16]

I, we have, we have that in common. And last time you, you've been in Chicago now this year, at least to my awareness, like it's been twice. And I'm curious about what your impression was of the city, even though—

Betsy Schuster [35:31]

Oh, I love Chicago. It's great. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [35:34]

Compliment it a little bit or give us—

Betsy Schuster [35:36]

Oh, for sure. I love being in Chicago, like a place with like real history? You can sense like there's people there who have lived there their whole lives, and they're— I find like a lot of inspiration in living, like being in a place and sort of living through that place in yourself and making work that ties yourself to that place.

And I'm a little jealous of that actually too, like how people can really be tied to a place because I've never like, I grew up in suburbia north of Detroit. I don't really have a really strong tie to any city or culture. So, I think it's really neat to be in such a place with so much history.

Christian Solorzano [36:23]

Well, you're not too far from us, so—

Betsy Schuster [36:26]

Yeah. To come visit more.

Christian Solorzano [36:28]

Definitely come visit more. We both have— Chris Hernandez is a mutual friend. I'm super glad that he introduced me to you. And it's— and I feel like that's what, that's what the Chicago Graphic Design Club's about. It's about like building, like just connecting all the dots, and then you realize that everyone is like connected somehow, like through mutual acquaintances or friends or whatever. So I'm always really— not impressed, but I always love when I—

Betsy Schuster [37:02]

I love that.

Christian Solorzano [37:03]

Find someone on Instagram that I like and I see that people that I'm friends with are following them and then they're following each other. It's like, yeah.

Betsy Schuster [37:13]

Little community. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [37:16]

So lately what's been keeping you inspired? Curious about what you're like outside of design. What are you reading? What are you listening to? Maybe even more so, what's— is there anyone in the— like, who do you look up to?

Betsy Schuster [37:37]

That's a tough one.

Christian Solorzano [37:38]

I always struggle answering that question because every time I do, I feel like I'm leaving— I'm going to exclude someone.

Betsy Schuster [37:43]

Right. I have no one that comes to mind.

Christian Solorzano [37:47]

Well, in your case, no one.

Betsy Schuster [37:49]

I mean, my— all of my friends, of course, inspire me a lot. Yeah, like Ando that I mentioned before, she really inspires me. So my contemporaries, of course I mentioned Peter Belak before. His work with indigenous scripts and multilingual type is like a huge inspiration for me. That's something I want to do in the future is do more language support and really work with other scripts other than Latin. But yeah.

Christian Solorzano [38:23]

And then with your, with your work, with your typefaces, what do you how do you hope that people use them? As you're working on them, do you envision a certain application or a certain utility to them?

Betsy Schuster [38:39]

I do sometimes think about it. If I'm working on a text font, of course, I envision people reading it for text, like long-form text. But if it's a little more kooky, then, the possibilities are endless. I'd always would love to design something for like a music festival or an art fair or something of that sort. But even just for people to, if they want like a very expressive, fun typeface, maybe I'm the guy for that.

But as far as trying to tailor my typefaces to like a specific like use case. I don't do that a lot. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [39:28]

Yeah, I'm always like really interested in that aspect of type design because often the specimens are always like really beautiful, but then I feel like the other, the other part of it is just someone knowing how to use it properly.

Betsy Schuster [39:48]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's tricky.

Christian Solorzano [39:50]

Yeah. But for example, with your with your type Antiphony, as I was using it, I just kept finding so many ways to rearrange it. And in some instances, the characters kind of felt like they nest perfectly on top of each other. Yeah.

Betsy Schuster [40:12]

Yeah. So with that one, the whole use case sort of developed while I was making it. I had no idea when I started the project that at the end I was going to be like, this is for setting at 45 degrees and also like in circles and on curved baselines and all that stuff. So that was a fun process because, yeah, typically like when you start a project, you kind of have sort of an idea of like how it's going to be used.

I want this to be for an artist, or I want it to be for text at this size viewed from 30 feet away, or I want it for a magazine or for web. But for me, I just kind of— I didn't start there. I started with exploring like different techniques for, or different like extremes of how to draw a typeface. And then I discovered things along the way that let me sort of find the path to how it would be used.

Like either you can set it like straight up and down or in a curved baseline because it's very fluid, or All these other things that I discovered along the way that if I never would have imagined coming up with that use case at the beginning, I'm gonna make a typeface for 45 degrees. But yeah, now I can sort of view it in retrospect and it's really cool.

Christian Solorzano [41:35]

Yeah, I think it would make a pretty cool tattoo.

Betsy Schuster [41:38]

I agree. I would— I have no tattoos and I would love to get a tattoo. I don't know, is that kind of bad taste to get your own font tattooed as your first tattoo? I don't know. I don't think so. Yeah, maybe. That'd be cool, like around the wrist or something, in a circle or tramp stamp. I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [42:05]

That's actually— I've been thinking about— I really like Jackson's work. He's just like a wizard when he— when it comes to—

Betsy Schuster [42:18]

He is. He's so good.

Christian Solorzano [42:20]

And I have considered not telling him but getting some kind of tattoo using one of his fonts and then just one day just, hey, look at this.

Betsy Schuster [42:33]

So yeah, then you'll find out if he listens to the podcast.

Christian Solorzano [42:36]

Yeah, there you go. I mean, he says he does, but you never know.

Betsy Schuster [42:42]

We'll find out when you rip open your shirt and you have a massive ampersand on your chest.

Christian Solorzano [42:48]

Exactly. So we're almost at time, but I just want to say, it's been so cool to, like I mentioned earlier, to connect with you. And again, thank you so much for being a part of our second iteration of Cold Style earlier this year. And I just hope that there's more opportunities to do— to do, who knows, to do something. I think that's definitely what it's— I mean, it's all about.

And I, and I really love that there's been just an ink— like a rise in like independent like type studios or just like organizations.

Betsy Schuster [43:29]

And I—

Christian Solorzano [43:30]

And what I love about for example, like Queer Type is that it's so it's— I don't— you don't have to ask anyone for permission. It's all just self-initiated things. And I just love that grassroots, DIY mentality of just, do things because you want to do them and not because someone's asking you to do them. So I feel like you and I are kind of, on the same wavelength there. Don't ask for permission. Just go do it.

Betsy Schuster [43:59]

Just do it. Don't even ask for forgiveness. Just go full steam ahead.

Christian Solorzano [44:05]

You said that. I dig it. So with that said I do have some rapid fire questions and I would love to know what are you, what's the guilty pleasure of yours?

Betsy Schuster [44:18]

Oh man. Evanescence. Evanescence. Nice.

Christian Solorzano [44:24]

I feel like she is, I, I've been seeing the Gen Z people, like just the Gen Z Population, is that what you call them?

Betsy Schuster [44:35]

Yeah, I don't know, community.

Christian Solorzano [44:37]

Get introduced to her. I've seen them post her music on their Instagrams, so I appreciate that.

Betsy Schuster [44:44]

I like, I like, I can't even call it guilty pleasure because like I feel no guilt. I'm like, I'm, blasting Evanescence. I'm like, yeah, she's awesome.

Christian Solorzano [44:54]

Yeah, and she's still around, she's still making music.

Betsy Schuster [44:57]

Oh yeah, she's great. Yeah. Amy Lee.

Christian Solorzano [45:00]

I feel, I feel different. I don't, I feel like Evanescence and like Avril Lavigne were both like kind of contemporaries. Avril Lavigne was like the punk rocker and Evanescence was like the goth. I was always team Evanescence.

Betsy Schuster [45:14]

Oh yes. Same all the way. Cool.

Christian Solorzano [45:18]

All right. So Evanescence, guilty pleasure. What is your favorite junk food, given that you're a vegetarian? What's your—

Betsy Schuster [45:26]

Junk food. Oh man, I've been— whenever I go to the Netherlands, stroopwafels, man, they're killer. Yeah. Cool.

Christian Solorzano [45:38]

Is there anything that you can't live without?

Betsy Schuster [45:40]

Can't live with— I mean, is coffee like a free get out of jail free card? I mean, coffee, like—

Christian Solorzano [45:49]

Something else.

Betsy Schuster [45:50]

Something else. Oh man. I don't think— I can't think of anything.

Christian Solorzano [45:58]

Scott, coffee it is. Is there a, what's an office essential? What's something that you just always keep with you?

Betsy Schuster [46:07]

An office essential? I am like, they should hire me as a spokesperson because I love these like Rhodia meeting books. These are like my jam. I love these. And this pen, the Uni-ball, Vision, they're— oh man, they're so good. They need to have like— you need an affiliate link or something because I love those so much. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [46:34]

If you could have a— like, if there was like anytime you walked in the room, there was like a theme song that played.

Betsy Schuster [46:39]

Like a theme song?

Christian Solorzano [46:42]

Intro song.

Betsy Schuster [46:48]

Oh man, that's tough. Let me think. Hamster dance.

Christian Solorzano [46:54]

Hamster dance?

Betsy Schuster [46:56]

Yes. Cool.

Christian Solorzano [47:00]

Hamster dance. Awesome. I'm writing all this stuff down.

Betsy Schuster [47:03]

Perfect. This will be on the final exam.

Christian Solorzano [47:06]

It will be. You are gonna be quizzed. Jackson's gonna be quizzed. If you could be— we kind of touched this a little bit, but if in an alternate universe, what's your other profession? What are the other things that you're doing?

Betsy Schuster [47:24]

Biologist. Easy. I think biology is fascinating. Okay. Yeah, it's cool.

Christian Solorzano [47:32]

I've seen— I follow an Instagram account where it's just videos of like microscopes, like yeah, looking at stuff through a microscope and it's like bacteria, moss. The other day it was like yeah, just people going into a swamp and just like—

Betsy Schuster [47:52]

Yeah, it's so cool.

Christian Solorzano [47:53]

Putting it on there. And it's so fascinating. It's just— It's like nature's design. And is there— do you have like a favorite film or what's something that you like that you like to watch, or just what's your—

Betsy Schuster [48:09]

What's it for you? Well, I have 2 answers. Well Princess Mononoke is like my favorite film ever. It's hard to beat, come on. But I also am like a huge like horror movie fan, so all of those horror movies.

Christian Solorzano [48:23]

Yeah, what's the horror movie that— I think maybe we talked about this, but horror movie routine.

Betsy Schuster [48:30]

I saw one recently, Bring Her Back.

Christian Solorzano [48:33]

Bring Her Back.

Betsy Schuster [48:34]

That's so good. It was crazy. Not for the— what's the word? Squeamish. It was great. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [48:40]

Is it newer or is it—

Betsy Schuster [48:43]

Yeah, new. It's the same directors as Talk to Me, if you saw that one. Also very good. Bring Her Back.

Christian Solorzano [48:50]

All right, I'm adding that to my list. And then what would be if you could go back in time and tell younger Betsy Some words of wisdom or just anything. What would you say to your younger self that's listening to this?

Betsy Schuster [49:08]

Maybe like minoxidil and yeah, no let me think. I would say like, don't wait to pursue like what you want to do and to be who you want to be. Just do it now. Just do it now.

Christian Solorzano [49:29]

I dig it. Sometimes it's so scary to just do it now.

Betsy Schuster [49:33]

It is. It is. No, I still struggle with it too. But yeah. Cool.

Christian Solorzano [49:39]

Awesome. Well, that covers everything. I hope that you come to Chicago again soon. And yeah, let's just keep in touch. And again, thank you so much for Being on our episode today.

Betsy Schuster [49:53]

Yeah, thank you for having me. This has been so much fun.

Christian Solorzano [49:56]

Yeah, cool. Awesome. Well, and then, and then just one last thing for anyone that wants to connect with you. What's the best way for someone to reach out or to—

Betsy Schuster [50:04]

Yeah, it's either Instagram or my website. It's just betsy@queertype— or no, that's my email. I'm sorry, my email is betsy@queertype.com. But then my, yeah, my Instagram is just queertype.co and my website is the same.

Christian Solorzano [50:23]

So, and is there anything that we, that you can that people can look forward to, like seeing you post on your Instagram or something? Like anything that you want to tease us with?

Betsy Schuster [50:34]

Yeah, well, I am gonna be in a magazine soon. I don't know actually when, but I wrote a little Article or a little feature about this topic and not the coasters that I made with my grandmother's fabric. So I'll probably post something about that when that comes out. Cool.

Christian Solorzano [50:56]

Yeah, we'll be on the lookout for that. Awesome, Betsy. Well, thank you so much. This was fun.

Betsy Schuster [51:02]

Yeah, thank you.

Christian Solorzano [51:04]

Thank you all so much for sticking around till the end. It really means a lot to us. To learn more about the Chicago Graphic Design Club or this podcast, Visit www.chicagographicdesign.club, and we really appreciate it if you leave us a rating wherever you listen. Thank you so much, and thank you, Betsy, for being a guest, and we'll talk to you soon. Goodbye.