Christian Solorzano [00:00]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and on today's episode, I will be speaking with Blaze Smith, the founder of the web design studio Shovel. And we're going to be hearing firsthand his journey and the path to becoming both a independent studio business owner, and also a content creator that is doing really amazing work on the socials.

He does these really interesting short-form videos where he breaks down the user experience of some of the world's most popular brands. And what I really love about his videos is that he pays very close attention to all the little tiny details that go into design. And I think as designers, as, people that spend a lot of time on the internet, I think we can all agree that we really appreciate when so much thought and care goes into amazing user experiences.

So we're going to be talking about that. He's going to be walking us through his process and what it's been like to be running his own studio for the last year.

And we're also going to hear a little bit about his upbringing, growing up in the middle of nowhere Wisconsin where there wasn't much to do. What Blaze did, and I think what a lot of us do when we're growing up, is we create a world for ourselves where we surround ourselves with our influences— music, culture, graphic design, typography. All of those things that I think always continue to influence and shape how we think and how we view the world.

So Blaze will be getting vulnerable and sharing some of those things with us. So it's a great conversation. And as usual, we will put the links to all of his stuff in the description for this episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. Enjoy the conversation.

Blaze Smith [02:14]

Thank you.

Christian Solorzano [02:14]

And as always, I really appreciate if you leave us a rating wherever you listen. It helps us expand our reach. So thank you and enjoy the conversation. Good afternoon, Blaze.

Blaze Smith [02:27]

Hey, I'm happy to be here.

Christian Solorzano [02:29]

Yeah, you have a— has anyone told you that you have a really cool first name?

Blaze Smith [02:35]

Yeah, that's like half my life, honestly. Yeah, my mom found it on the internet, like on a, it was like sincerely Blaze on like a Christmas card or something, and she just thought it was cool. That's kind of the backstory. It's nothing crazy.

Christian Solorzano [02:52]

Yeah, that's a good backstory. So I discovered you on Instagram a few months ago. Someone reposted something that was on your Instagram feed. And I really loved seeing someone break down web design in a very accessible and easy to understand way. And I just love that because I was, we were, we were talking about this right before we started recording, but one of the things that I really admire in designers is the ability to talk. And to communicate.

And I think design education often doesn't really emphasize that. And I think especially for people that are creative or artistic, we tend to be kind of awkward and communication is not something that comes easy to us. So have you always been comfortable talking or being in front of the camera or just talk to us about that? Yeah.

Blaze Smith [03:59]

Well, no, actually is the answer. I still feel like I'm only a year deep into posting like short-form videos. So go back. I mean, it's pretty easy to scroll down at some point. I think you'll see like my early videos. I'm kind of just and maybe I still am like, I'm quite monotone and that used to like really scare me from making content and I didn't think I like could Have like a, good perspective and good voice. Like didn't really have the confidence to do it.

I kind of just took the jump and started doing it. And like any skill, you just put the reps in. I say to people getting into content all the time, like if you're serious you don't know what to do, like just post 100 videos about anything and then like it'll be very clear to you. And that's like a MrBeast quote, but I think it's super true. Yeah, no, it did. I was not great at the beginning. Yeah, it's a skill.

Christian Solorzano [04:57]

And I'm curious about when you post your videos about how many takes you do before you feel comfortable with one.

Blaze Smith [05:07]

Yeah, my early videos, I wanna say it was just like a few takes. Like I really emphasize, don't, I think a lot of designers have this trait too. I definitely have it, but like being a perfectionist. With content nowadays, like just especially like TikTok is where I started, just post and forget about it. Honestly, that's just what I recommend. And in terms of takes nowadays, I definitely stutter and like I mess up, but like this unedited raw script is only like 3 minutes long maybe.

So I really, it used to be off the top of the head in my early videos, but now I'm at like upping the production. I have an editor now and he's doing really great and I'm just training him and investing in time and money into him to like meet my standard, I guess. And he's, again, he's doing great, but I spend a lot of time on scripts. Like I'm reading scripts in my video.

So yeah, there's a lot of, it's kind of like a teleprompter, but even that's not easy, right? Like that's kind of a skill too I'm learning.

Christian Solorzano [06:14]

Yeah. And do you do you ever look back at your old videos or do you just forget that they exist?

Blaze Smith [06:21]

I do sometimes.

And I mean, I kind of used to like really cringe at it and I still do, but I don't know. I, it's just really funny to me now to like look back and I think it's also rewarding to like see what my videos are like now and now that the audience is built, right? Like I have, I think like 80,000 followers across platforms. Not that like that number matters, but I think what matters more to me is like the type of people following me.

It's like people from my favorite brands growing up, like fashion brands. Like I saw Jerry Lorenzo followed me and he's this fashion designer. He made Fear of God. And I'm like, there's like, that's so crazy. Likes my content, right? It's just validation. So you have moments like that where you realize like it's not as cringe as you think, and it's actually like, it kind of works out as long as you just keep going after it.

Christian Solorzano [07:19]

I like to hear that. So when I first stumbled upon your profile, not only did I like your content, but I really love your profile photo, which is a still from a Bruce Lee Interview. So can you talk to us about that? Because I know that you have a post where it's like an excerpt from his interview when you say Bruce Lee on responsive design. Responsive web design. So tell us Bruce, the Bruce Lee story.

Blaze Smith [07:52]

That's an example of like posting something and not thinking twice about it. Like in that moment, I thought it was funny. For context too, it's like the Bruce Lee quote, be water. And it's like this whole thing and I just like misquote it and I say, this is Bruce Lee on responsive web design. And I'm like, oh, that's just stupid. Made me laugh at the time and I just posted it.

And honestly, like the selection of Bruce Lee as my profile picture, I thought it was just eye-catching and again, like just funny to me for some reason.

There wasn't like any thought honestly behind it. I think like tying back to it though, and now that I'm kind of like, I have this studio I'm building and like I'm, actually starting to build like a solid brand identity or like at least investing time and some resources into that. I'm kind of like, I feel like it's part of my personality, like injecting these quotes from these people I used to look up to when I was like younger and stuff.

So there's gonna be like Bruce Lee, there'll probably be like Steve Jobs, like Dennis Rodman, just like all these people I used to kind of look up to like creatively or in business. And I don't know, for me, branding is like Taking your brand, putting something cool that's existing next to it, and then you kind of had it have those 2 things sitting long enough, and then eventually you can take your brand away from that and people like think your brand is cool.

So it's kind of like you're building associations. For me, like that little association was like Bruce Lee, like a lot of people like it and I tried switching it to like me, but people were like right away, switch it back, switch it back. So yeah. I'm stuck with it now.

Christian Solorzano [09:28]

Yeah, I think you can't, you can't ever change it.

Blaze Smith [09:32]

I agree.

Christian Solorzano [09:35]

So walk us through your I love hearing origin stories and I'm really interested in hearing about your background because I know that you studied information science and technology. So you don't, you don't have, do you have a formal education in design or is that something that you just picked up along the way or?

Blaze Smith [09:54]

Yeah. So I, that information science and technology, that's my bachelor's. I have an associate's in web design, but the funny thing is like there was one UX/UI class and that class was taught by an accountant and I'm talking middle of nowhere Wisconsin. So, I learned like really basic concepts and I don't even think Figma was a thing at the time. It was like Adobe XD and having to learn that and I guess there's classes teaching you Photoshop too. So I don't know.

I didn't think, yeah, I wasn't connecting those dots back then. Like I didn't even see myself as a creative person. I didn't even have the confidence to see that. So I'm going through school, getting my bachelor's. I graduated last year, end of '24. And like along that way I was doing Figma designs every day just because I thought it was cool and like wanted to learn web design.

Eventually that came to like me feeling confident enough to design myself a portfolio, even though there was like nothing to put on it. I just wanted my own website 'cause I thought it was cool. And it was just practice, honestly. So I did that. And then eventually, I think about how lucky I was to get this UX design internship. It was for a bank, a regional bank here in the Midwest. It's pretty big, I'd say.

And I worked there for a year and a half, and that's like really where I got good at like UX/UI design. And then I was taking freelance projects on the side too, just saying yes to everything. So I just wanted to, I always knew I wanted my own business, but yeah, I mean, really it was just saying yes to things and like learning on the fly.

And I think my education didn't really serve me the best to actually learn design, but I don't know, I have my opinions on school, so. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [11:45]

But, and when you were, when you were growing up as a kid, what were, what was the world that you associated with? What were some of your interests? I know you mentioned like Bruce Lee being one of those inspirations, but what was the, what were some of the catalysts that kind of pushed you into this world of visual storytelling and just building experiences for people?

Blaze Smith [12:08]

Yeah. So I kind of thought about this recently and there's just maybe like when you're 25, you just, it's like the perfect time to like think back on your childhood. But I used to like be really, I grew up in the middle of nowhere. I grew up in a town of 1,000 people. Like there was nothing for me there. And like it was, the destiny was to work on a farm or like work retail, like at McDonald's or something.

So I knew that wasn't for me and I knew I was kind of different, like this kind of, like I was into fashion and stuff like these brands like Supreme, like these streetwear brands. And that came from just thought skateboarding was really cool. And I was actually really bad at skateboarding, but what was interesting to me was like the world of brands skateboarding would introduce you to. So there was just so much like consumerism in there, I guess. And I like fell into it.

It was like my intro to consumerism. But yeah, I think the combo of that and like living in the middle of nowhere, like there wasn't much to do, right? So I would just skateboard and then snowboarding brands were a whole thing too. Snowboarding was a huge part of my life. And then like movies and video games, like Halo 3 was like my favorite game ever.

And then, all of these old games when gaming was kind of like in a golden age with like these cool characters and, these whole stories being spun up. So I think that's kind of me as like a kid who grew up like chronically online. I had to because I lived nowhere in the middle of nowhere.

Christian Solorzano [13:43]

Yeah. So what would you, what would be some of the things that you would spend your time doing online? So it was like video games. Did you, were you interested in graphic design? Were you interested? I know you mentioned like interested in branding, but Did you know graphic design? Were you like studying typefaces and layouts and all of these things? Did you have the vocabulary to understand what you were looking at?

Blaze Smith [14:04]

I didn't, but I knew when I saw like a design I liked, I like, I knew like, yeah, there was definitely like a creative side to me, I guess. I just maybe didn't tap into it as much as I thought I could. Because I like, I grew up like no one was like an artist, no one was a designer like that. Just wasn't a real career like where I grew up.

I think like a huge thing for me and, being in these brands, it was like clothing, streetwear, fashion. I never like told this before, but like when I was, I think I was 19 or 18, I started a clothing brand and I was, it was like this stupid, like looking back it was No way I would wear the clothes now. You're a teenager making a clothing brand and like to make the designs. I'm like, okay, I kind of know Photoshop a little bit.

And I just kind of started making t-shirts and then I got into screen printing and learning how to screen print. And that was like a huge thing for me, like learning how to do it. And, that was kind of like the intro to like starting a business because, also growing up as a kid, you see like on YouTube all the time too. And I'm seeing these YouTubers and like they're making money online. That's a really cool thing to me.

But I remember like the clothing brand thing, like I took it seriously. I started taking it seriously. And this is more dramatic than it sounds, but like my dad, like my family and my parents went through a lot of stuff when I was 18, 19. But then the cherry on top of everything was like my dad got cancer and I was like, okay, I have to do something about this and like make money. And I remember it was like midnight.

And I just sat with that, news for a while and I just got up and started Photoshopping like a design right away. I'm like, I got to make t-shirts, I got to make money. Even though, my family was actually, we're not well off, but they could have, taken care of it. But for some reason, I thought I had to take care of it. Yeah, that was just like a funny thing to, look back on, I guess. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [16:10]

And then what did you so how'd you get into posting online and just like creating this following?

Blaze Smith [16:21]

Yeah, so I've actually learned recently there's like a direct correlation with people who are like good at social media and people who like, who grew up playing video games. Because I think being in that world of video games, like YouTube is such a huge thing in the gaming world. Like you have a favorite YouTuber that you would always watch or something. So I kind of like unconsciously like learned the rules of the game from there. And I knew something was good content and watchable.

I couldn't really explain it like maybe 2 years ago, but I just kind of knew what that would look like, I guess. And then I started, I think this was end of 2023, I started getting deep in these web design studios and agencies and like learning, okay, Web design's actually like really cool and like you can make money doing this. And like there's actually people being like really artistic in this space. Like it's kind of a medium for like art, I see it as.

And then I got deep in that and wanted to like post about these niche websites and studios. And I had this brand called GenFram, and that was like my first time trying to like really make a good logo and everything. And looking back, it's not good, but I was making these like abstract posts and like these really experimental, Instagram, like slides or carousels.

And then also I had like a blog page for Jen Fram and I was posting just all this stuff about these websites, these studios, hey, these are 5 websites Nod Studio made or whatever.

And that actually, the goal of that was just to like get attention from the studios and like build the network there, I think. And it actually worked. I had like 200 followers maybe, and that's like not much, I guess. But again, I don't know, the number of followers doesn't matter. It's just like who follows you, I feel like matters more. And then I did that for a few months that, those experimental abstract posts weren't going anywhere. I wanted more reach.

And then eventually in Milwaukee last year, I think it was last year. Yeah, '24. I talked to this agency called Northern Ground and they're really sick. They make, for me, it's like one of my favorite agencies. I'm a fanboy. I went to some event they had there, met the guy who's like lead of strategy, and I just told him, hey, like I posted this short-form video. And it blew up and I have no idea why it blew up.

And this video got like 2 million views and I kind of just like stole like one of the top posts of the UX Reddit or something.

And then he's like, and I'm like, I just don't know what to do with that, I said. And then he made it feel really clear to me the way he explained it to me. He's like, dude, you just gotta like get eyes. It doesn't matter if you're getting clicks or getting inbound or like, people requesting for projects. You just have to get in front of people and get the word out.

So you should maybe like break down websites or something like that, or say, give it a rank at the end of the video or something. And I sat with that for a while. I went to London last summer then, and for whatever reason, when I came back, I was like really focused on like making this work. I think just like it was a good reset. And then I just started posting videos right away.

And then, yeah, honestly, it took off pretty quick cuz I just, posting twice a day, like spending less than 10 minutes on a video, giving a one-line statement about this website. This website's just rotating sandwiches and it's a stupid video, but—

It got a lot of views and made people click my profile, which then made 'em look at my other videos where I'm like breaking down design and maybe talking at a, like a more niche level. And I realized, oh, okay. So it's just like an attention game. Really?

Christian Solorzano [20:18]

Yeah. And who are some of your, who are some of your favorite YouTubers? Or like, when you talk about being younger and looking at content and like recognizing that it's good content, like for you, what are some of the qualifications of something being like, what are, what are your metrics of success?

Blaze Smith [20:41]

Yeah, it's so different because social media and the algorithm change so frequently.

Like back then, like these gaming YouTubers, it, I can kind of draw the pattern now and make the conclusion that like, oh, it, those guys were successful because they all were YouTubers in like a group of 5 friends and they're all posting each other and then they're like, getting clips out of that and they're also like supporting each other as well. That was kind of like, that's the pattern I can recognize looking back in the day. And these YouTubers, these YouTubers were like KYR, Speedy, Vanoss.

If you game, you probably know these guys from back in the day. But nowadays I really thought about like what makes the difference between 1 follower, 100, 1,000, 10,000, 100,000. It's really, and this is like any skill, it's just pattern recognition and like being consistent with the patterns you can make. And by that I mean, for an example, is like, oh, my video has text in the middle here and the caption right below it.

And then there's like my face in this specific spot with like this type of graphic in the background. And then we focus like on 3 elements max, per second because it's too overwhelming to have more than that otherwise. That's just stuff I got from posting 100 videos. So yeah. You don't need to be perfect the first time. You, when you start off, you just post and forget about it. So you can essentially just collect data.

And look at this video. Why did this video only get 100 views? Oh, maybe this is why. And yeah, I think like creators nowadays, it Xander Whitehurst is really great in design. Oren Meets World is kind of like a genius in marketing and you don't need to be the best. I'm not the best web designer. I'm just someone who's good at posting about it, and that makes a huge difference. That's more effective, I would say.

Christian Solorzano [22:40]

Yeah. So tell us about your studio, Shovel. For one, tell us the meaning behind the name, if there is one, and if you want to share. And then what's it been like for— because you've had this business for a year now, right? Is it— has it been a year?

Blaze Smith [22:58]

Yeah, almost a year exactly, like next week or something. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [23:02]

So can you share like the story of, I want to, I want to know some of the growing pains of starting your own studio.

Blaze Smith [23:13]

Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot. You got to be able to handle it. I don't want to like sugarcoat it, but also I don't want to make it too intimidating to like, scare someone off. I don't think it's really like that. As long as you have the ability to learn, you're gonna be okay is what I'm learning. But the name Shovel, like all my favorite studios, like I'm just like nerdy about like naming, I guess.

Like my favorite studios at the time were like Baggy Studio, or they were like abbreviations, like for brand names, like ABC stands for Advisory Board Crystals, or LED stands for Less Environmentally Destructive. So I'm like, okay, for a catchy name, like you need, it needs to be one word, or it can be like, an abbreviation that kind of has a reference to something else, but it's not actually that reference. Like LED, you think of a light, but no, it means less environmentally destructive.

So I sat there for like, I had the Jen Fram brand. I'm like, okay, I need something new. Like I learned this from like Virgil Abloh, but like when you're new, that's the best time to restart and it's fine to do so. Like you have the most power to restart something there. So I restarted, Jen Fram, a new name, new everything, new vibe, cuz I kind of grew out of it myself.

I sat there for 2 days and I really think like the name of the studio or your business is like not your name unless you have a clean Instagram@ and a clean domain name.

So I sat there forever and I wanted to like plan this idea of building and like tools and stuff like that. And then eventually, I ran into shovel.studio, the domain name, and then that was like $2 to buy the domain. And then it was also like free on Instagram and TikTok. So then I just ran with it. I'm like, okay, this is kind of catchy and this is like easy to remember. The name doesn't have to be perfect right away.

I honestly didn't love it right away, but like looking back, yeah, I'm happy with it. It worked out pretty well. Yeah. And I guess like growing pains in the first year, there's so many, right? I think I'm not affiliated with this book at all, but if you're interested in this stuff, like Run Studio Run by Eli Altman is really good. I just finished that last night. I feel like it hits the nail on the head for like how you have to think more business-minded.

I think that's another piece of me is like, I do really enjoy thinking about the business stuff.

I have to assume too, if you're freelancing, you're technically running a business. Like if you have an LLC, you're making income, you're paying taxes on that income, like you're running a business. So you have to think about it like that. And, when eventually freelancing gets overwhelming, like there's only one person can do so much. So now like I had to find contractors and luckily like Instagram's an amazing tool to find talent. Like Instagram is an amazing networking app.

So yeah, I think one thing, like there's a million things I've taken hits on and I told a mentor this before, like I could have cracked so many times, but I just didn't. I just kept going. It's just part of the process. And like when people say, oh, trust the process, like this is the process. It's like you just being able to, learn from mistakes and stuff and doubting yourself.

Like yesterday I was, Saw some other agency, this younger kid, like making millions of dollars and, the comparison like was eating me alive. But, I'm still going, so that's all that matters. A weird moment about like, this was kind of like a hard-hitting thing I feel like that I can recently think of. A client fired me recently, so I, I'm breaking down why it's happened, but I gave her a design and she didn't like it the first time. She didn't like the second iteration.

The third iteration, I thought I killed it. I showed it to all the other designers. They thought it was great, but she just ended up like wanting to stop the project and stuff. So I maybe, I think it'd be easy to blame her, but like I, for me, how I work is like, I just take the accountability and figure out what I could do better. And there's, the process is absolutely everything, like being strict on design revisions and stuff.

Exploration in design used to feel so abstract to me, and maybe a little bit it does, but I've been able to kind of tackle mood boarding and pulling things from references for clients and understanding like what they like and what they want. Like you kind of want to tell them, they can give you a website, but they usually have no idea how to tell you like why it looks good.

So like you kind of have to tell them and break it down yourself, which making videos about that helps. So that was something I learned. I think it's also hard to like do a personal brand for someone. Like she was an artist and like I'm putting placeholder copywriting and she's like, I would never say that. But yeah, you have to understand like what clients see, they don't see it as placeholder. They see it as final. Like this is the design.

So that's kind of another piece of it as well. Like to make a website, you really have to have branding and copywriting in place before you actually start like stuff like that. And yeah, honestly, like when that happened and when she sent some harsh, like the most malicious feedback I could have ever gotten. And then it made me question myself as like a designer. Like it was really easy to think like, wow, I'm terrible at this. But I kind of like, I'm confident.

Like I think weeks pass and like I find like confidence in myself. Like I know what I gave her as a final like try was my best foot forward. And I'm okay. She fired me. Okay. It's just not a good fit. Then maybe I can identify a client like that next time.

Christian Solorzano [29:13]

Yeah. One of the, some of the best people that I know that run their own studios tend to be really stubborn and they, and they're just very like matter of fact, this is what I think. If you don't get it, then it's, you're just not bright enough to see my genius. Do you have that? Do you feel that way? Are you stubborn?

Because I feel like so much of— like, I've been thinking a lot about design studios that get hired to help bring someone's vision to life and almost like take orders and like collaborate. And then there's other design studios or designers where it's less collaborative and it's like, you're giving me your problem and I'm here to solve it. And don't tell me, don't tell me what to do. What's your— does that make sense?

What, where do you— because I sometimes feel like designers try to be in the middle. Like they want to, they want to please the clients and compromise. And in result, sometimes the work gets a little bit like diluted. So.

Blaze Smith [30:26]

Yeah, I think that's an interesting topic. It, I guess the way I see it is like, and maybe this is because I'm honestly more like a junior slash mid-level designer, like I'm newer into this game. I'm like in the weeds with the work and just like trying my best to serve the client because like that's what they're paying us to do. But yeah, it's interesting. Like I got too much of both, I assume is bad.

Like if you're feeding into the client demands too much and you know this relationship is way more one-sided with like how this design is turning out. I've been there and like not been happy with the design and this was like for a big name. And I don't know, like if it wasn't a big name, I wouldn't even show it in my portfolio probably. But yeah, it's also, there's complexity too, cuz like there was a big team involved in that. Like there's like a lot of stakeholders.

Versus like I'm working with another guy. Who he's kind of like a one-man show. He has like a, he's like a clothing brand retailer and he's kind of like on like the edge of going out of business.

And I'm just giving him like my best, like he's paying me for my expertise and my feedback and yeah, like I'm really trying to like be the authority and the voice of reason for him and like give him like my best kind of take on his situation in some spots. So I think maybe it depends, but probably the best project is being in the middle, cuz it really is like a collaboration between you and the client.

Like you think you put something amazing out or design an amazing website but it's missing this little piece that the client gave you. And really like what I've learned also is when you kind of play on the client's ideas and like make that idea work, it feels like they made the final result and that's usually like more likelihood of approval from them. So yeah, it's kind of like, yeah, hard answer, but yeah.

Christian Solorzano [32:33]

Because I sometimes see like the, like the infamous Rick Rubin videos on Instagram where it's like, people are hiring me for my taste. And you see those videos like get shared all the time by everyone. And a part of me is like, who actually like lives up to that? Like actually can confidently say like, my taste is the bottom line and you either accept it or you don't.

Blaze Smith [33:01]

Yeah. Yeah, that is his, I think it probably does apply to all creative work. Cause I think that's kind of a unique standing point for me, like on my social media is like just the types of websites I'm showing and people like, I'll often do say like they kind of like the taste of that. So yeah, I don't know, maybe that's like my unique value proposition as well, but I also find it hard to like define what my taste is sometimes.

Yeah, maybe as I grow older and get more experience, I can define it, but yeah.

Christian Solorzano [33:38]

So can you talk to us about the hat that you're wearing? It's the logo for Artifaxing. Which you designed the website. Did you also make the logo?

Blaze Smith [33:50]

I didn't make the logos. Made by Paul Nicholson, who did the logo for Aphex Twin, which is like a really cool thing. Yeah, Artifaxing. He's a friend, like really great. Like I made this relationship early on and, like I was in London for his event and it's just like really, I don't know, it's been really rewarding, I guess, to like kind of, have a piece in like this lore. Yeah. Just supporting the clients today.

Christian Solorzano [34:23]

So when you're making your social media posts, like for example, with this podcast, every time I launch an episode, and it goes live and then I wake up the following day. I just, the first thing I want to do is like look at the, like the data, like the analytics and see like who's listening, where are they listening. And you just get obsessed over it. Like that first, like when the episode drops, like that first week, it's like I'm checking my phone every like 10 minutes.

And sometimes like, I'll get a text from someone. It's like, oh, I listened to the episode and I loved it. Thank you so much. All that kind of stuff. What have been some moments, like notable moments for you when you like release something and then it's out in the world? What is, what just talk to us about that like vulnerable feeling of putting yourself out there and sometimes people like maybe not liking something or maybe loving it. How do you—

Blaze Smith [35:26]

Yeah, at first it's really tough because like with my confidence, I was doubting what I was saying was true? And I'm, I remember this one specific instance where I posted about like the concept of referring in like a, in a creative business. Like I refer this client or lead to like a brand designer specifically. And then like I get like a 10% referral fee.

I was explaining that concept because I just learned it and like how I post is like when I learn something, I just kind of post it right away. I feel like that's the best time to do it. And I used another— where I went wrong was I used another studio as an example and like right away they commented and they're like, this is not how we do it. We don't do referral fees. And that was like damaging for me.

Like I felt really bad, cuz the whole thing for me is like, I wanna, I want studios to like me, like that.

I want like I, this, that's how I got into this. And I'm a fan of their work too, and I kind of like shed like some darkness on it. Obviously removed the video right away and stuff. And then I think another part about it too, that like people talk about it, but like the hate comments get to you a lot sometimes too. And they're saying this guy's totally wrong, or he's just overhyping and glazing this. And maybe like, I see their perspective on it.

But then also I'm like, one, like I can only fit so much information in a 27-second video. Like I can't paint the full picture and like you're kind of not understanding that and I don't expect them to understand that. And then 2 is like, how can you publicly like hate on someone? Like this has gotta be such a terrible reflection on you if like your followers are seeing this, even if you're just even if you're not a content creator or anything.

Like this person from school is seeing you comment like hateful things and just being angry in the comment. Like that's some weird thing to me. So like it took a while to like, really grasp that. But yeah, like putting yourself out there is like scary, like it's kind of a natural human thing to like feel like nervous about that. Like the human brain isn't built for. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [37:43]

Instagram.

Blaze Smith [37:46]

I know. Yeah. But yeah, nowadays, honestly, I like— it sounds maybe corny, but like when I see comments like, being negative about me or something, I kind of like try to take the feedback and try to filter it and see if it's actually true or if I see— think it's a valid take, or I try to respond to them as well if I think it's like worth responding to. But I don't know, I just ignore 'em a lot of times and it's just funny.

I'm like, oh, that's funny. And then I kind of just try to move on. So you kind of like build resilience over time with it too. But yeah, that's something that like to be mindful of.

Christian Solorzano [38:23]

Yeah. I had there's been one instance where I launched something and someone's immediate response was this is a load of garbage. And then they immediately unsubscribed from like what I was posting.

Blaze Smith [38:42]

Yeah. And I was like, damn.

Christian Solorzano [38:43]

And it just like made me question my like entire existence. I was just am I like, are they right? Like if they, if they are right, like are other people thinking the same thing and they're just not telling me? And it's just like a dark—

Blaze Smith [38:57]

Yeah. I don't mean to laugh, but it's like, yeah, it's totally relatable. Yeah, it's so relatable for me right now. And I mean, art, like that response is a natural human response, to think that. I guess you really just have to think again, like what person is publicly hating and they're probably not happy if I guess when I see something and disagree with it, I kind of like laugh or like, I don't publicly comment.

Like that's a whole, like there's a lot of steps to Doing that. And a lot of like, they're, and if anything, they're making the video more engaging because comments like are good for the algorithm. So I think about it like that too. It's actually the, some of my biggest videos, like I break down Balenciaga and oh man, this guy's a fanboy. And I'm not at all. And, like they're actually blowing my video up to like, to be one of my biggest videos. And yeah.

Christian Solorzano [39:55]

With so given that the majority of your content is educational, would you ever consider being like a professor or going into education?

Blaze Smith [40:07]

Yeah, maybe when I'm like, 'cause I think about this too right now, like I'm in my mid-20s, I'm 25, so I think I'm probably just like on a common path of like wanting to be financially free is like and I just got outta college and, most people that go through college understand, we, you're broke. I'm also trying to create just like the best work I can. I really want to be featured.

There's a, there's so many like website design curators on the internet, but for whatever reason, like Browsing Mode, they're called, is like really, I just, I just like really like the curation and taste they have. So I'm working to like get my first browsing mode feature one day as well and just kind of like make a name for myself, I guess.

Christian Solorzano [40:58]

Can you tell us what browsing mode is?

Blaze Smith [41:01]

Yeah, they basically just I think I like their curation of web design. They basically just take a link and post it on their site and then they have like a thumbnail of the website. And I like them specifically because it's like kind of the hybrid of like a really cool, like unique branded experience, but also like it's a usable website and they have like conversions in mind too, which I don't know.

I just think that that's kind of the best way to approach, or the way I like to approach web design. So yeah, I think like it would mean a lot for me to like have to see my work on there and we're actually gonna put something out in the next like month or 2. I can't share what it is yet.

But I'm really excited to share it because I think this is something like best in, like when I think best in class, like that's the vision is like, I just wanna build best in class websites. So I think this one's gonna be best in class and my, at least my first like legit attempt at it.

But back to the question, would I be a professor educator? I don't wanna be the creator that sells courses. I really don't like that. You have to have a foot in the game too, and a lot of these people do not have a foot in the game. And it's really like, I can't trust someone that doesn't do that.

But I think like my mentor, he's a professor. That's how I met him. And I think when I'm at the point where like money's good, family's like good, maybe I'm like an old man, but it's fine. I think like it's fulfilling to teach someone something, right? And like see them grow and like have an apprentice. So yeah, like maybe one day, 'cause I do like, maybe as much as I kind of narc on school sometimes, like college, I do like see it as a valuable experience.

Like really it's the experience you get from university is like to build your network. But yeah.

Christian Solorzano [42:59]

Yeah. And you strike me as someone that is very, you have this mature Way about yourself, like you seem to have a good grasp on your overall trajectory or like what your path. Where does that come from? Is that something that you kind of were forced into, or is that did you gain that from some from somewhere? Because I feel like I.

I, my observation on people that are in your age or like from your generation, I often see that there's just like between COVID, like finishing school during COVID and like growing up on the internet. Like there's so many, there's so much that you guys grew up with that kind of like went against. It's just— there's just whether it's like TikTok brain or just like this crazy world that we're living in. So how do you, how do you, how do you come across as so composed?

And what's like the secret to just being like, having the discipline and the vision to subject yourself to, let's say, criticism online, negative feedback from clients? It seems like it's such a thing that even people that are like much older just always fear doing. I know people that are in their 40s, 50s that always dreamt of doing their own thing, but like they were just no, I cannot do it. So where does that, where does that come from? Is that, I just wanna know about that.

Blaze Smith [44:42]

Yeah, I wanna say it's funny. Yeah, like going through COVID, like that was, I think I wanna be relatable at first here when I tell this because like, 2020 was actually a really tough year for me. Like everything that was like when my dad got cancer, he was like not really in my life at that point either as well. And like my mom was struggling with it all and like we're parents were getting divorced.

I'm 19 and then 3-year relationship like that ended with like my girlfriend at the time, like the high school girlfriend and that would, there was like a lot of, and then COVID, COVID's on top of that too. Like I can't go outside anymore. Like it was crazy. So that was like, I feel like the, probably the biggest low for me. I was like really physically outta shape too and like had terrible habits, crazy anxiety, couldn't leave the house.

Like in high school, like I literally skipped school so many times cuz I just had crazy anxiety. I'm like, yeah, like I'm not going to school today. So I think like, I hope like that makes me seem somewhat relatable. And like this kind of 5-year journey since then was like, you have like a low moment and then you realize like, I don't know, like you're still around and like there's something like you're just, if you're still here, like why, like there's a reason why.

And then I kind of got into this mindset of like, and I draw like a journal and like sketch like crazy, especially lately. I think about the trajectory, I call it, and people talk about having hills and valleys in life. And that's very true, especially like now that like I'm running my own business. The hills and valleys are like, every day is a different day. One day your bank account's negative, one day, next day you have like $12,000 getting sent to you.

So then like, I think about it like this is like, there's hills and valleys in life, but like you have to assume like the trajectory is always at least like going up to the top right. It's kind of how I think of it. And I draw that like diagram all the time, like this wavy line to the top right. And that's how I kind of think of it. Again, it's like part of the process.

And like when you realize the process is like doubting yourself, going through these moments that are not great, and then having like crazy loads of dopamine in one moment, like something great happens.

You just kind of like understand, oh, this is like what the game is. I think another piece of this too is like when I moved to Milwaukee, so I grew up in the middle of nowhere, Wisconsin. I moved to Milwaukee when I was 21. When I moved to Milwaukee naturally, like being in the city, like helped me meet more people and like I was maybe not really ambitious at first, but I ended up meeting more people.

And then you see, I just kind of like saw the lives they were living. Like I met this one dude in the sauna once at the gym and he like changed my life because he was, like he was like the first like person, not maybe not first person I met, but the first person explaining to me like what the concept of being financially free was and like what that actually meant to him and like how he got to that point in his life and stuff.

And I'm like, well, this guy like really did this thing. And then I met this other guy in the sauna, meet all these people in the sauna. I met, but he owns like a clothing brand in Milwaukee and it's like the one clothing brand that's like big and made it outta the city. And he has a cool car, like he's always wearing these cool clothes, like he seems like he has like the cool, like creative dream life.

And I just he's just a guy, like I just met him, and like you kind of pick their brain a little bit.

So I think like meeting people that maybe seem like bigger than life, but then realizing they're like a normal person and like social media, like my network building into this has been like this, I don't know, you kind of meet people and I think it's really valuable to like pick their brains and, this dude is like, maybe this guy's like 50 years old, but like 50 is like a lot of living that was done. There's a lot of experiences that are really interesting that people have.

Christian Solorzano [48:55]

Yeah. Yeah. That's something that I, that I always like to that I always wonder about because I also have like mentors and people that I've met and I feel like there's always this, it's just interesting hearing like what drives people. And I feel like every driven person, like their drive is born out of some kind of angst or some kind of like desire to be, to be something.

Blaze Smith [49:29]

Yeah, no, that's totally it. Yeah. So like Northern Ground, the guy that kind of pushed me towards content, their designer, he had something that like really stuck with me and it felt like really profound to me. He's like an amazing designer, graphic and web, amazing photographer, like best concert photography and like food photography I've ever seen. And I remember like having a conversation with him and he said that like he just completely operates out of like severe anxiety. And I just found it really relatable.

And yeah, like the pressure is actually— it maybe sucks in the moment, but like it forces you to do things sometimes. I guess like flipping the question on you though, like you have a lot going on too. Like starting a club is not easy either. Yeah, I'm kind of curious to hear, and maybe you've told about this on this podcast, but, starting that was probably not an easy thing to do, right?

Christian Solorzano [50:28]

Actually, it was. And I feel like I tend to say this, I've been saying it a lot lately, but I've— I read, I don't know if this is true, but I read somewhere that People with lower IQs tend to do more. They tend to have more things going on because they don't think too much about how things will get done. They just like very stupidly like plunge into things and like figure it out. And I do that all the time.

I don't think About, I mean, obviously I think, but I like, if I sit here and think too much and reflect too much, I will not get anything done.

So I, so like with the club, I, it was just literally like, no one is doing this right now. Like it's a pandemic. I have a Zoom account. Like we're doing, like when the club started, it was all virtual. So it's just been, I just take one week at a time. Like even with our programming that we do. Every event that the club does, we never plan more than like a month ahead.

Like it's always just not at the last minute, but I yeah, like that's my secret is I just try not to think.

Blaze Smith [51:53]

Yeah. No, I love that answer because like, that's like my social media too is like, don't think, just go. Just do it.

Christian Solorzano [51:59]

If you start thinking, you're gonna, you're gonna talk yourself out of doing the thing.

Blaze Smith [52:03]

Yeah. 100%. Or you sit there doing nothing and then nothing's accomplished. And then also like, I think people might think like operations like this are more put together than they think, but no, it's really not. Like I'm literally just talking to my camera, like rambling to the camera in front of like a random website. Like it's not that crazy.

Christian Solorzano [52:24]

Yeah. It's not like the Illuminati. We're not like lizard people or anything.

Blaze Smith [52:29]

It's just— No. And that kind of goes back to the whole thing is like you meet someone, it's just a normal person. You're just as capable as someone for the most part. Yeah, it's actually technically not always true, but like you can do anything you want. And when you kind of believe that, it's like really freeing.

Christian Solorzano [52:47]

Yeah. There is a, there's an Instagrammer I follow and she's like, she's young. I think she's in her early 20s, but she has this like thing that she does where she climbs like really, she's just like those people that do heights. Like she climbs these huge towers and yeah. And she does it barefoot and she's like balancing herself up there with like attached to nothing.

And every now and then she'll go on these Instagram Live rants where she just talks about the meaning of life and all this stuff. And she said that she was talking about free will and how a lot of people don't— like a lot of us don't understand that we have free will. To do anything, and that's what I love about like the other people on Instagram or online that will just do like ridiculously like cringy things on purpose, and they're just free.

Like there's some sense of freedom in just being able to recognize that you can do anything, like literally anything, and there's and there's like nothing holding you back. And I just love that idea so much.

Blaze Smith [53:56]

I'm not, I'm gonna butcher the quote, but like a good entrepreneur back in Milwaukee, he like, he basically told me that like every, I remember him, remember him telling me about his experience, like how he felt like he started a design agency too. And he is like, what am I doing, dude? I have no idea what I'm doing and I feel so lost. And I just graduated college. All of my college friends are making like $90K a year and I'm here making like scraps.

My account's negative. And I found it super relatable and I told him that and he was like, yeah, well, every idea, every time you start like this new business or idea, like it's just embarrassing and you have to deal with it at first. And that's okay. It's just like a normal thing that happens.

And then again, like kind of tying it to like what I did with social media, like how so embarrassing at first. Like my friends would like roast me for that, in videos and stuff. But like now who's laughing? Like it works since if you're consistent and learn from it, like it works. So.

Christian Solorzano [55:00]

Yeah, I love it. And it, and everything great that has ever happened always starts from some level of discomfort or fear or whatever. So I love it and that's why I love the stuff that you're doing cuz I it's really cool. So just wanna say thank you for doing what you do.

It makes, it certainly makes a difference, I think, for like younger people that are just cuz a lot of the brands that you review are all popular brands that like, in my opinion, are always at like the cutting edge of like experimental. Like their navigation, the way that they feature products, like their, just like everything. Like you were, I think you were reviewing the A24 and you were reviewing like their navigation, I believe. Like there is imagination towards the bottom. And I just love it.

Like that's the stuff that I love about design is like those little tiny micro details. That we like overlook, but you know that the person that made those choices is just, they're just like amazing?

Blaze Smith [56:19]

It's just cool that like in social media, I think like a cool thing about the algorithms, yeah, we have a brain rotted society, but the cool thing is that like, niche things like this like make you stand out now and I guess the way I've, now that I've kind of built my way up, I look around and like for social media and like there's just so much opportunity and like so many niches people aren't posting in.

And I don't know, I just it's really intimidating at first to think like every idea is taken, but, when you kind of realize there's just, it's like the inverse of that. Like there's a lot of ideas that don't exist yet and a lot of people on social media that don't exist yet. And topics, and that could be something like really hyper niche you're interested in. So I guess that's kind of the way I think about it.

Christian Solorzano [57:12]

So what's like the thing you go crazy over? Like when you, when you're looking through like a digital experience, like what's the, what do you go crazy over? Is it typography? Is it layout? Is it hover effects? Like what do you, what makes you like get up and just like—

Blaze Smith [57:31]

Yeah, I think it's kind of like Hover effects are a piece of it, but like having a design system and realizing like everything is like super intentional here. Like the pixels is 2 pixels because this reason, or whatever reason you make up in your head. Like the whole topic of design system, having this component library and then just basically having Lego blocks to make like a really consistent, cohesive, unique branded design is like so sick to me.

And that's actually what we're doing. That's like what I'm doing for this project coming out like next month. Like we, I made it, I made a design system and then like, I'm gonna like basically try to sell or like, I'm on the whole idea of like not gatekeeping anything and like basically give away the design system I use for like real projects to the audience, stuff like that. But yeah, I don't know. It's hard to explain that in a video. Yeah.

My videos do so well, and I got this from, he's a business bro, but Alex Hormozi, like talk in a 5th grade reading level or below. Like there's literally a website that like checks your scripts if it's at a, like what grade reading level it's at. Shoot for 5th grade and below. Generally you avoid polysyllables. Those are words with 3 or more syllables. And yeah, you use simple words.

It's, a lot of web design creators are saying the words like navigation, Pagination, like no one knows what that— the average Joe doesn't know what that means. So if you can make the average 5th grader understand what you're saying, you have a good video because you want your video to be as accessible as possible for the most part. Get more eyes, more eyes is generally better, I would say.

Christian Solorzano [59:17]

Yeah. So with your studio, what's your— do you want to scale? Do you want employees? Do you plan on just being one person with contractors, or what's your ultimate vision?

Blaze Smith [59:29]

Yeah, there's a few paths because notoriously, like agencies and studios, like exit as exiting those is not like the best deal, like versus exiting. By exiting, I mean like selling the company. Like selling an AI company is like a big thing and you're getting millions from that, if you're successful with that. But selling a design studio is like not super profitable. And with any company, you have to look at like recurring revenue that's guaranteed and stuff like that.

And I work on like a lot of one-time fixed projects. I'm really looking, to like get recurring and like maintenance projects moving more. So like the exit's not that good. I have a mentor who exited and like he didn't really get the best deal, but he just wanted to get out of it and do something else. So that's something in mind.

It would be cool to have a little studio with like, I think staying smaller is better, from my, like what I'm learning, because you can be, I'm just niched in just web design, just web development, those 2 things. I'm not doing emails. I'm not doing social content. None of that for clients. So you kind of are more nimble and like you can give clients more time. Because you're just, so few people.

I think like the margins are actually, from what I'm learning, like pretty good in smaller studios because employees are expensive. Like you gotta pay benefits, salaries. So either that or like, I'm honestly like, I'm not opposed to being taken up and being full-time, like somewhere where something is like, I truly believe in the work, the product, the service they're giving. Whether that be like a really agency I really enjoy or something.

I'm always gonna have like this entrepreneurial mind to me, but, and like the social media is a non-negotiable to be building that up on the side. But I'm really open to like being around people, 'cause who you're around is like a huge investment. And if I'm around like a bunch of people doing work that I think is really good, I believe in the vision. Yeah, I'll take a full-time salary and like I'll pause Shovel for a while.

If I come back to Shovel, like I got past level 1, so I can get past that easier the first time, like I learned a lot, trying to run a business, especially a creative business. I can kind of just use that elsewhere, I guess.

Christian Solorzano [61:58]

Yeah. Can you walk us through a day in your life?

Blaze Smith [62:03]

It's not like crazy, honestly. I work so much.

Christian Solorzano [62:08]

What time do you wake up?

Blaze Smith [62:09]

I wake up, I'm like an early person. Like I'm, I don't really like to be up late anymore these days. Like my college party days are kind of over. Not that I was like hardcore into that stuff, but like 6 to 7, I'm up, give me like 40 minutes, I'll be ready. And then journaling is super key. I actually like got this whole new schedule, like time blocking my day. I just did that today. So now it's like my day is pretty linear.

Like I'm really, I'm realizing freedom is like controlling your own calendar. Like that's kind of what I think actually what freedom might actually mean.

So like being more in control of my calendar is something I want to achieve more. And I find that I work best in the mornings and, like when I'm, when I have like 160 milligrams of caffeine in me, like that's when I'm really in the flow state. I like gym, I like fitness a lot too, like being in like Whether it's weightlifting or snowboarding, or I was huge into rock climbing as well a few years ago. Running was cool. So I love fitness as well.

Video games sometimes. I'm kind of an average dude. I do work hard and there's nights where I'm like working later than I want to be and like working over 12 hours, but that's not like every day, I guess. I have a little bit of a balance. Yeah, I don't know. It kind of ebbs and flows. Like there's just periods, there's seasons where I'm working really hard and I'm really burnt out from it. And I find like travel is actually really key to getting a reset.

So the goal this year was like traveling every quarter. So yeah, hopefully that, hopefully that's true. So far it's been true. So. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [63:55]

And what's your so Design aside, but what do you, what do you listen to? What do you watch? What do you, how do you, what's like the type of content that you like to consume when you're not?

Blaze Smith [64:07]

Yeah, that's funny. I do, so like my early day, midday, I wanna stay focused. So like if I listen to something, it's either like ambient music, like Aphex Twin is good because if there's words in the music, then I can't concentrate that good. And then by like midday, I'm like pretty like scheduled out. Like I have a routine. By midday, I usually throw on a podcast. Really good podcasts, like in marketing and business and stuff are like Brandfathers.

These guys are like the number ones right now for anything marketing. Like you need to listen to these guys, in my opinion. There's a web design business, Josh Hall. He's a good mentor.

Christian Solorzano [64:50]

He's cool.

Blaze Smith [64:50]

I have a Decent relationship with him. Alex Hormozi, as business bro as he is, like he's really smart and like explains concepts for business really good. I think like that's kind of it. Maybe it's like a very male, very male.

Christian Solorzano [65:05]

Do you have any guilty pleasures?

Blaze Smith [65:09]

I like to, I've kind of cut back on like any vices I feel like lately. Like caffeine is definitely probably a vice for me. I think it's like Whole Foods cookies are like really specific, but, when I can get, when I can eat like 4 of those on like Saturday, it's like pretty rewarding.

Like I, it sounds bad, but like I love what I do for work and I work a lot, so I don't know. I think it's easy to think like that's weird and I don't know, like I just really like what I do, like making content. Designing and stuff and like meeting all these people and like trying to build a business. Like it's really a really rewarding thing. So I put a lot of effort into that, but I'm also a normal guy too.

Like I play video games, like Battlefield 6 came out and I've been playing a lot of Battlefield 6. That's cool.

Christian Solorzano [66:06]

And then just one last question, but it's about Chicago. So you live in Chicago now. And you haven't been here for too long, but I'd love to hear your first impressions of like the city and sort of like how's Chicago treating you?

Blaze Smith [66:24]

Yeah, it's interesting time too, right? Like to be here in this like political climate. I've really liked it so far. I think I just haven't been able to explore it so much. Like my apartment is in the basement, like it's a garden unit. So I'm literally like in the basement all day just working and Honestly, I don't get enough sunlight, but me and my girlfriend like have been trying.

We live in Logan Square and like we're really trying to explore like a new restaurant every time or every weekend. And that's been cool compared to Milwaukee. It's so much more expensive, right? Like I could go live in Milwaukee for like significantly cheaper and like probably live more luxuriously there. But, it's a network of people that I'm hoping to build here is Why I'm here. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, I like it. It's a nice place to live so far.

I think it gets like a bad rap if you don't live in the city, but maybe it's because I haven't seen that side yet.

Christian Solorzano [67:19]

I don't know.

Blaze Smith [67:20]

I really like this big city life. It's been good. Okay.

Christian Solorzano [67:25]

Have you experienced your first Chicago winter?

Blaze Smith [67:27]

No, but I'm from like central Wisconsin where it's worse. So Okay. Yeah, we've, I've been able to tank these winters, but as I get older, I definitely is like, we have El Niño this year, so we'll see how it goes. I'm also like, from where I, even in Milwaukee, like you need a car to get around. Like you need a car. Being in Chicago, like you don't need a car. You just ride the L or something or the bus, whatever it be.

And I don't drive to the gym anymore. I walk to the gym now that I live in Chicago. So I think I'm probably gonna hate the winter. Predicting it. So, yeah.

Christian Solorzano [68:07]

Cool, man. Well, thank you so much for being on our show today. I'm glad that I finally got to talk with you for the first time. And I really hope that, I mean, I just hope the best for you. I think, I think what you're doing is like really exciting and I love to see driven people like wanting to make a difference.

Blaze Smith [68:27]

Yeah, I really appreciate it. I'm definitely gonna show up to like these events that you have going on and stuff. Yeah. And like around the city. So maybe some people will see me there. People are still listening. My Instagram DMs are always open. I'm always, I really make a big effort to respond to every DM. I feel like that I can maintain that at the moment. And it matters, when a lot of younger designers too are reaching out and I'm just giving advice all the time.

Hopefully it's good advice, but yeah, if anyone has questions, @shovel.studio on Instagram. Pretty open.

Christian Solorzano [69:02]

Yeah, we'll put the link in the description. And what's your maybe you don't need to confess this, but what's your average screen time?

Blaze Smith [69:10]

Oh yeah, I should check. No, that's actually a good question. I should see. I don't know if it counts my Mac, cuz if it counted me and my computer, then it's really cooked. But no, I'm really curious. No screen time on my phone. Like this week is full, almost 5 hours.

Which is, I don't know, I think that's bad. I try to shoot below 4. I doom scrolled more than I would like yesterday, but it's weird. Yeah, part of it is also like I need to be on my phone for my job. I wish there was something that can block the Instagram feed and just let me use DMs. Yeah. So yeah, startup opportunity there. I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [69:48]

Yeah. People, I feel like people tend to get intimidated when they like DMing someone with such a high follower count because it's like, well, my message is just gonna get buried in their inbox.

Blaze Smith [70:03]

Yeah, that's true because I mean, it depends. Like if I post a story where I say, hey, swipe up and tell me what you think. I like in the first 10 minutes will get 50 DMs and I have to delete the story sometimes because sometimes it is just like when I prompt someone like that, it's really, it gets really hard to maintain and like you're putting a lot of energy into these, you want to give valuable information or have valuable conversations. But yeah, I don't know.

I think for me, I don't want to paint myself like, I just want to paint myself like a normal person.

Christian Solorzano [70:39]

I don't know. Cool. All right, man. Well, thank you so much for taking the time. This was a cool episode and certainly it, we went over the hour, which is good.

Blaze Smith [70:51]

Yeah, I'm gonna blast this on social, so hopefully yeah, you get some views.

Christian Solorzano [70:56]

What a great conversation that was. Thank you as always for sticking around till the end. If you enjoy shows like this, please leave us a rating wherever you listen. Thank you and goodbye.