Christian Solorzano [00:05]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a podcast by the Chicago Graphic Design Club dedicated to bringing you conversations with Chicago's creative leaders. On this podcast, we'll explore the craft, theory, and practice of graphic design, plus discuss bold ideas that push the boundaries of what's possible and ways in which we can create a more thoughtful and inclusive community. To learn more about us, visit our website at www.chicagographicdesign.club or find us on social media. Special thanks to the Chicago band Eighties Slang for our theme music.

Hello, today I'm your host, Christian Solorzano, and I am honored to be speaking with Brian Morris. He is a digital illustrator and artist based in Chicago. Over the past 25 years, he's devoted much of his time to working in digital agencies. Most recently, he held the role of Executive Creative Director at the consulting firm PwC. I've known Brian for about 5 years, and I still continue to be in awe of all his creative pursuits.

In 2021, he gave a talk with the Chicago Graphic Design Club titled WTF NFTs, where he dived into the value of NFTs. Today, he spends much of his time working on cars, collaborating with other artists, pushing the limits of artificial intelligence while being engaged in the creative community. Since our club's inception in 2020, Brian has been a constant supporter, so I'm very happy to be speaking with him today. So let's get started. Hi, Brian. Welcome. Happy to have you here.

Brian Morris [01:54]

Christian, always a pleasure, my friend.

Christian Solorzano [01:56]

So let's get started with a question that I always like to ask our guests. And the question is, how did you get started in design, graphic design, arts? Yeah, we could go back to your childhood if we have to, but what were some of those introductions early on?

Brian Morris [02:15]

I think it probably was childhood. I'm one of those folks that have been drawing since they could hold a crayon. Just that constant encouragement and staying curious about it is what led me to kind of a career path in this.

Christian Solorzano [02:32]

I remember you telling me once that when you were a kid, you gave yourself a tattoo.

Brian Morris [02:38]

I did.

Christian Solorzano [02:40]

Yes. Could you, could you tell us a little bit about that?

Brian Morris [02:45]

So when I was 9— no, when I was 8, I received for Christmas a set of Rapidograph pens. And these are like technical pens for drafting, right? I drew a lot with pens and I asked for these for Christmas, right? And they're India ink pens, so you refill them and they got really sharp nibs and all that stuff. Great pens. I used them. I loved them.

But somewhere throughout the course of that year, I discovered that India ink was the ink that, Aboriginal tribes would use to tattoo themselves. Basically like, charcoal kind of suspended in something. And I was like, well, hell, I got India ink, and I'll grab one of my mom's sewing needles and yeah, I gave myself a little cross on my leg when I was 9.

Christian Solorzano [03:40]

And does it still hold up? Is it still visible or have you—

Brian Morris [03:44]

Yeah, it is. There's just a line now. The kind of the T part of the cross is gone. And there was no significance to the cross. It was just a very simple shape that I could make that was more than a dot or a line. But yeah, it's still there.

Christian Solorzano [03:58]

And what were some— so you went to Bradley University and you majored in graphic design, is that correct? Yeah. And what were— what was the— and that was down in Peoria, so not too far from Chicago.

Brian Morris [04:13]

What was—

Christian Solorzano [04:13]

Yeah, what was some of the motivation behind pursuing a career in design?

Brian Morris [04:18]

Well, when I was in high school, I got a job at a clip art company in Peoria. So I was a digital illustrator, second shift. And basically I would redraw other people's drawings, but I would do it on the computer. So I would like scan, an original Bristol board drawing by like Mitch O'Connell or, some stock kind of artist, and I would spend my evenings doing that.

And that turned into kind of doing it full-time, and then I ended up going like First Shift, and then this was while I was in college, and then I started getting into like HTML, early Flash stuff where I wasn't just drawing, but now I was kind of— I was able to make something interactive and I was able to tell a story over time, and all these new tools were just really fascinating to me. And so there kind of I embarked in the design world.

Christian Solorzano [05:26]

Yeah. And do you still recall some of those early influences or some of the things that, you still think about today?

Brian Morris [05:33]

Oh my gosh. One of the things that I would have to do in that illustrator job was layer images, right? So I would take like a drawing that was on paper, make it digital. Well, one of the opportunities you have in doing that is now you could layer you can finish parts of that composition that aren't there.

So like if there's a car in front of a diner in front of a tree, you could separate those things out and finish the car and the tree and the diner. So you have different elements. And that, for whatever reason, that stuck with me big time. Like everything that I draw now, I draw that way, that it's all separate components. And that's kind of led to a, I think, something that's kind of defining and My artwork today.

Christian Solorzano [06:18]

Yeah. And I remember, I remember when you and I used to work together, you— something I've always liked about you is that you're always sketching. You're always, you're always— when you're in a conversation, when you're in a meeting, you always have a notebook with you and you're always drawing something. And it seems like the medium that I've seen you work in person, has always been analog. It's always ink to paper. And most recently I've noticed that there's been— that you've been doing more digital work.

You've been doing more work on the tablet. So how does— yeah, just, I'm curious to just hear a little bit about what that's like and whether your approach to illustrating has changed due to the different, tools that you're currently using.

Brian Morris [07:09]

I think it all comes from the same place. So I'll just say, I'll say that first. Regardless of what medium you're using, I think as long as, you have you're approaching creating something with some intent, I think it's a genuine creation. So that first. So I don't think medium matters. And maybe that's why I've kind of, I float around a little bit from Drawing on paper to painting to now very digital this last couple years.

Yeah, I'm always curious about new techniques and always, I'm curious about the process of making. And I consider all my works to be studies. I study the— I'm basically studying the subject that I'm drawing or designing. And so yeah, I like the process behind the technique to keep me really engaged. So I shift around a lot. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [08:14]

And I know that not too long ago you decided to just commit your life full-time to your artwork after 25 years or so of working in digital agencies. You're now 100% making the type of work that seems like you're passionate about, producing a lot of artwork, collaborating with other artists.

You've been, I would say, when I first heard of NFTs, which was, I think it was last year, you seemed to sort of be one of the first people I knew that was really into the space and was doing a lot with NFTs.

So that's something that I always really look up to in people when they're able to pursue what they love, what their passions are. So could you tell us a little bit about what that was like? How do you go from having an entire career devoted to working in a particular space to now saying, you know what, I'm gonna do my own thing now?

Brian Morris [09:20]

Well I'm kind of bemoaning here a little bit because like, it— I don't know that it's a very inspirational story. I hope it's maybe a story people can learn from. Because you're right, after 25 years in agency worlds and, doing consulting in a Big 4 firm and, I had reached that kind of— I was a chief creative officer for a while, and I had teams all over the place, and it was really exciting, and I had checked all the boxes.

But ultimately— and this sounds like a sob story— but ultimately the box that I did not check was satisfaction with the work. I'm not complaining, okay? But I was always solving other people's problems.

And I was always focused on how do I get— how do I enable other people to do their best work, right? And that's what that job is. But that comes, I think, often at the detriment of me as an individual doing my best work. And I kind of reached a tipping point where, I mean, I remember the very moment, and we won't go into the details of it, but I remember the very moment where I was like, I'm not doing this anymore.

It's not that I can't do it, it's that I'm not. And this particular person's problem is— I don't feel like solving it anymore. They're making it difficult for me to do so, and I actually don't know that they want me to solve it for them. I think they enjoy having the problem. Problem. And yeah, and so it— I just kind of hit a— literally hit the end of the road with it.

Christian Solorzano [11:22]

And did you have a like, what was, what was your strategy? Or like, what were some of the things that— because that— because I always hear people talk about how difficult it could be to actually yeah, to just start sort of doing their own thing. And I'm curious about your experience. What were some of the— what were some of those building blocks that you felt like you had to create?

Or what was that foundation that you felt like you had to lay down before you could actually, take the plunge?

Brian Morris [11:55]

I think it started honestly, that foundation started right after college where, I graduated from Bradley, as you, you'd mentioned, and there wasn't really a job in Peoria that, I already had the job. I was already doing the job that I went to school for when I graduated. So I had to get out. So I went to Chicago, started freelancing, and learned really by trial by fire, okay, I have to earn an income. I don't know anybody. I have this skill set. How do I market myself?

How do I get in touch with people at agencies? How do I build a little network so that I might be able to pay my rent? That was difficult but necessary. And I got ripped off a bunch of times, so I learned how to read a contract very quickly. I learned you don't take people's word. You don't start without a down payment. All that stuff I learned very early, or were lessons that I was blessed with, I should say.

And then, all through the agency and consulting time, I was always building little businesses or building teams or understanding the P&L or what the project budget was and how to manage against that. And so I kind of gained a lot of that business acumen along the way. And then I never stopped drawing that entire time, like whether I was drawing in meetings or I was designing gig posters for a band. Or t-shirts or snowboards or whatever in my free time outside of the agency world.

I just kind of kept my finger in the illustration and drawing art realm. And so when it came time to no longer do what I was doing, I just kind of looked at my skill sets and I said, well, I've built a little bit of following in the NFT space. I've managed, big books of businesses for the last few years and I know what it's like to be a freelancer. What the hell? We have a little bit of runway because I tend to save my money.

I don't blow it on, stupid old Volkswagens. I save it. And so we had a little bit of runway to take this leap.

Christian Solorzano [14:20]

Yeah. And something that I think— something I've always really have noticed about you is that you seem to have a very strong work ethic despite your busy schedule. So you and I, we worked together for some time, and you had a very demanding role where you were either on the road or you were just always sort of selling work and, involved in so many different things.

Yet despite all that stuff happening and having a family and having, a life, you always found time to create despite anything going on in your life. And I remember being in a meeting with you once and you mentioned something about how, you would wake up super early, like you would make it a priority to always draw and to always create.

Even if it meant getting little sleep or like waking up really early or whatever the case. Could you walk us through like what's a day in Brian, in the life of Brian? How do you— because I know you wake up really early, or at least that's what I gather from following you on social media. You wake up early and some days I feel like you're just working and creating all day.

Brian Morris [15:46]

Yeah. Well, every day is very similar now.

Like the beauty of not having to live on somebody else's calendar is that you— the days of the week really don't matter anymore. A Saturday is the same as a Monday to me. So I'll say there's a lot of routine. Yeah, the average day, I try to get up by 4:30 or 5. Sometimes it's earlier, sometimes it's a little later. But between the 5 AM and like 7:30 or 8 AM is, I think, when I do my best, my best work.

Because I'm— it's very easy at that point in time of the day to get into the flow and be free of distractions. Your mind isn't quite awake yet, which is great because it's more open to ideas.

Ideas and more open to exploring. You're not, I live in Chicago, right? So like I hear the traffic. I can hear when the traffic starts for the day and like my neighbor's honking and, the kids getting off to school and all that stuff. Like there's just this constant buzz. So that time in the morning is yeah, that's really special to me. It's my most important time.

Christian Solorzano [17:07]

And how do you, how do you go about choosing? Because I gather that some of the projects that you do— so I'm looking at your Instagram and some of the projects that you create sometimes appear to be self-initiated. So you sort of sometimes just go through a series where you're drawing something that revolves around a theme or a subject.

Brian Morris [17:29]

So there's a couple of different lenses that I look at. One is what do I feel like drawing, first and foremost. But then 2, what's the market— what's the market willing— how do I say this— what are the market conditions and where am I inside of those? So I said that very unarticulate— inarticulately, but essentially I'm looking at well, let's take the NFT market. What's the sentiment in the market this week?

Is everybody down because, the markets are down, or is everybody up because there's been a big project that just pumped and there's some extra liquidity in the market? So I'm kind of looking at where's everybody's, heads at. And then, because that tells you whether or not they'll perform on their liquidity, right? Like whether or not they'll spend money and then how much they're willing to do so. So then you got to look at, how much liquidity is that there is in the market.

I say all this because I have— you're right, my projects are very self-initiated but I try to target them at different price points or entry levels so that I always have something relevant in market when I, when I do each drop. So I'll have something timed that's a little more economical, so a little more economical to collect, which means that the subject matter is probably going to be a little more lighthearted, the colors are going to be a little poppier.

It's going to be, a square so people can use it as a profile picture for the week until they buy something different. So I think about that, how do I make something that's really fun to buy?

Christian Solorzano [19:31]

Okay, got it. And it looks like— so I'm looking at one of your recent projects, Insiders, and the way you describe it is a new way to participate and collect the creation of art. Holders of Insider NFTs are able to interact with you, Brian, in real time During the creation of each month's art. So it seems like there's also some collaboration or also some sort of way for people to participate in the process.

Brian Morris [20:01]

So yeah. I think that's on the opposite end of what I just talked about, where like I have a project called the O's, which are these, they're all one-of-one works of art. And they're about $200 apiece, and I do them in batches of 10. And that, that's the economical— if I, if I want to think of it that way, that's the easy entry point. But then there's things like that, the Insiders, which are high-touch. I'm literally collaborating with the collectors.

I'm spending a whole week with them. They're informing the work. We're doing it together. I'm updating their NFT on a daily basis. There's a private Discord for them. That's a higher touch, much more collaborative. And it is about— it's about community engagement with, I'm blessed to have a few people that are really excited about my work. I want to let them into the studio and I want to better understand what they're excited about because that helps me amplify it in my own work.

And I also, I just genuinely enjoy spending time with people. So a great way to do so.

Christian Solorzano [21:11]

Yeah. And you've been, you've been working in the NFT space for a little bit over a year now, right? You had your NFT anniversary, I think it was sometime this year. So how has— yeah, just how has that space evolved, the type of work that you're doing?

I know you talked a little bit about it right now with things to do with like the market and being able to collaborate with others, but Have you noticed that like your craft or how you approach projects or like how does— how has this new tool, this new technology impacted the way you create work?

Brian Morris [21:50]

It's changed everything. Like when— if I think about my art, like it used to be about the image, right? Like this is the picture that I drew. It is not that. That is a part of it now. Like the image is kind of the— it's definitely the face of it, but what you can do with that and the way that people can engage with it is— I mean, I do think the term NFT art means something now.

A year ago I would have said like, oh no, it's just art on the blockchain, but now there are so many different ways and mechanics to leverage the technology that when you bring those into your work, you are creating something different than before, and it is enabled by this technology.

And when you conceptually bring that in, yeah, I think it changes everything. 2 years ago, I never would have done— I had this collection called the Order of the Glass Apes, where I drew 50— I did basically a series of 50 apes.

But they're meant to be collected in such a way that if you put certain combinations of them together, you unlocked a new ape, and people that put that combination together got that ape. And then now you have this different kind of relationship with those people and they now have a, like a 1 of 1 instead of a 1 of 10.

Christian Solorzano [23:21]

And so you—

Brian Morris [23:24]

The way that you can engage with them and the way that people can collect and think about the work is very different now.

Christian Solorzano [23:31]

Yeah, because it's— because now it seems like there's more of an opportunity for the artist to assign the value to the artwork rather than other people telling you, the value of what you're creating. Now it seems like it puts the artist more in control. If— I don't know, I don't know what you think of that.

Brian Morris [23:51]

I'd say yes and no. You can set your price, but the market will reset it for you. So, I mean, you could price a piece of artwork for, 1 ETH, which today at this recording is about $1,600, right? And you can try to sell it for that, and maybe you sell it and the person that buys it then can sell it for whatever they want. So they can sell it for 2 ETH, which would be great for you, right? Because it increases your perceived value.

Or they could sell it for nothing, which is bad for you because then it shows the market that like, this guy paid this much and then sold it for much less. I'm not going to buy that person's work.

Christian Solorzano [24:33]

Yeah, but can you also dictate what holding that NFT means? So for example, if like, that's the kind of value that I was referring to. So if I have one of your NFTs, perhaps that means that, I could come over whenever I want.

Brian Morris [24:50]

You don't have one of my NFTs yet, I don't think, but you're always welcome, Christian. Yeah, no, exactly. That's how the Insiders works, that project you're talking about. You have to hold the token, you have to hold that NFT in order to participate in the creation of the art that is that NFT. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [25:12]

So you're always, you're always working on, you're always working in the space of like the, just the most the latest tool, the latest technology like NFTs. And now you're also doing a lot of stuff with Midjourney. And I think I, and I've seen some of the work that you've been doing that you've been posting a lot. On your— throughout your channels. And I'm just— I'm always just amazed by the things that Midjourney outputs.

But I— but I'm very interested in just how do you go about using Midjourney, and how do you— how has that enhanced or amplified the way that you create and approach art? Because Midjourney, in my opinion, is very different than, getting a writing instrument and sketching something out. With this, you're more or less just putting in prompts and then it generates something for you.

Brian Morris [26:15]

Yeah, okay, this is how excited I was about it when I first started using it. Christian, I'm gonna hand you a paintbrush that will paint anything. All you got is a magic paintbrush. All you gotta do is tell it. Make it for you. Would you— how could— and by the way, it's like almost free, practically free. How would you not use that paintbrush?

Christian Solorzano [26:41]

Yeah, it's incredible. I, I've used Midjourney a couple of times, and it's almost scary how accurate it could sometimes be based on what you type in.

Brian Morris [26:55]

So I think that's why I'm so excited about it, is how scary and fast this technology is moving. It's like an— it's a bit of an adrenaline rush. Every single week there is such a leap in innovation and a leap in capabilities not just with Midjourney but across the AI and GAN space that is just mind-boggling to just to witness. So I'm playing with it, I'm using it on a daily basis.

But I can't— it's gotten so deep so quickly that like I can't even begin to scratch the surface of it. And that's the thing that I'm most frustrated about right now is I would love to continue to draw what I'm drawing and spend 10 hours a day with my hand in the tablet making it happen. I would also like to spend 10 hours a day, building my own, processes and workflows within AI. It's just—

Christian Solorzano [27:59]

I mean, yeah. And one of the, one of the things that I've, that I've had a conversation with on previous episodes with our guests is I know some people are a little bit concerned that with tools like Midjourney that it's in a way might diffuse craft? Because all of a sudden, if AI recognizes, for instance, the style of Brian Morris, I could type in Brian Morris cookie and it'll give me a drawing of a cookie that's in your style.

So why would I commission you to do something for me if it could just do it?

Brian Morris [28:41]

I'm less worried about that aspect of the craft disappearing. I'm more worried about and this is probably 5 to 10 years down the road, more worried about individuals not picking up a craft because it's not needed anymore.

So yeah, will it, will it put illustrators and photographers in a bit of a pinch? For sure. Is it going to change everything? Yes. But what I'm really worried about is, well, will people bother to learn to draw. Sure they will. Why would I learn how to draw a tree when I can make all of them?

Christian Solorzano [29:25]

And I've— and have you I think I saw you post not too long ago you, but you've— you're now collaborating. So you now you're combining some of the outputs from Midjourney and then also incorporating your own personal lens to them. What has that been like?

Brian Morris [29:45]

It's been super interesting. I've been approaching it a couple different ways. One is to take work that I'd done previously and just kind of as an experiment and studies incorporating artificial intelligence outputs inside of it, which has been super interesting because it's forced me to write prompts and generate things with artificial intelligence that will work with my previous things. So it's made me better at prompt writing and generating things that I want, not just what it makes, but what I want to make.

So I've used it in that way to get better at generating things. And then on the other side, after a few months of playing with DALL-E and Midjourney and Stable Diffusion, I feel like I'm able to start making things that I'm really excited about, that I have a lot of— a lot more control over in the outputs. And so now I'm creating things that I want to begin to draw into.

Okay, so it becomes like the setting, if you will, or it becomes the backdrop for the scene that I draw on top.

Christian Solorzano [31:00]

Wow. And is your process for creating something in Midjourney different? Because in this case, you're just how do you— and I know that there's I've heard from some people that people don't necessarily like enjoy— they don't enjoy sharing their Midjourney prompts because it almost discourages people's ability to create their own. Which I agree. But what's like, how do you initiate a creation? Because I feel like there's a very consistent theme across what you're making. So do you have like your set parameters that you always incorporate?

Or like, how does that work?

Brian Morris [31:47]

Like I have, yeah, it's kind of like a recipe. Like you had a really good gluten-free vegan brownie recipe that was like, Better than the crap you can get at Whole Foods. You'd be a little stingy with that too. You'd be like, I don't want to give it out. I think prompts are like that.

But yeah, I do have a structure I follow where I have a few phrases that I always start with, and I have a kind of a linear, like a long list of things that I always end with. And it's the stuff in the middle that I change a lot.

So basically, I'll— if I'm trying to make something very sculptural, I'll tell it, I'm— I may not even say I'm looking for a sculpture, but I'll say things like a carving of marble in the shape of blah, or, a human brain shaped X, Y, and Z. So I try to give it the form I'm looking for first and then what it's made of.

Christian Solorzano [32:55]

So in Midjourney, does the sequence of your inputs matter or does it not matter?

Brian Morris [33:03]

You can do different weightings. So there are different— yes, in essence there is prioritization and you can play with it in certain ways to shift it around. Like if you bracket certain things or if you're using an image as a basis, you can assign a weight to it. You can overall change the weighting of something. There's some stylized settings, right?

Like if you put in a special— there's a special syntax that you can write in there that will give you really precise control over how wild or how timid the AI interprets the prompt. So like you can really crank the dials once you get accustomed to it.

Christian Solorzano [33:49]

I've made a few Midjourney create— like, there was there was a few weeks ago where I put in— I was showing it to a friend and I put something very specific. I typed in gotta get back to work and I put in like my company's name. And the output was people leaving, like going into work, and it was using the color palette that— the color palette of the company's brand. And it was just so— it just felt so appropriate.

And I don't know, it kind of freaked me out a little bit. And I, and I'm, and I'm pretty sure at some point there's going to be motion that'll be incorporated.

Brian Morris [34:29]

Already there.

Christian Solorzano [34:31]

And that'll be, that'll be wild. There's— I haven't seen it yet. I haven't seen any motion.

Brian Morris [34:38]

Check out there's a company called Runway. And they're about to release it. So Runway is a— they're an editing software company, and they've been making huge advancements in AI for years and years and years. Their tool is actually the first one that I ever subscribed to like 2 years ago. They have a new thing coming out that it you give it a text prompt and it will give you a still image. Okay.

And then you can tell it like, Ken Burns effect, and it will begin to push into that like in real time. Like while it's moving, you can mask out things and say, take out this lamppost and make it a fruit tree, or, make— I want cars from the '50s driving down the street, and in it will do this to the— to this video. It, it's insane.

Christian Solorzano [35:37]

It's crazy. I have seen some music videos using all Midjourney prompt outputs, and those are pretty incredible because, yeah, it's just like a series of like hundreds of images that give the illusion of motion.

Brian Morris [35:55]

Yeah. Well, if you ever want to try something fun DALL-E is really good at this. You can take a short video clip, break it down into still frames, and then feed each of those frames into DALL-E and like mask out a certain part and just keep giving it prompts and take exports and then, rebake that video with those stills that came from DALL-E. So it's— you can do all kinds of experimental stuff like that.

Christian Solorzano [36:25]

Yeah. So for someone that's listening and that has very little experience or no experience at all with AI or creating images with AI, like what are some tools that you recommend someone getting started with that are— that have a pretty low entry?

Brian Morris [36:41]

Yeah, I would say the first thing to do would be to get onto YouTube and just watch a bunch of videos because there's stuff that's coming out every week. Like by the time this thing comes out, there's gonna be something new. So that's always good to see what people are using and experimenting with from a tool standpoint, and then you can kind of see which tool might be right for you. There's a lot of them on your phone now.

I haven't— I sound elitist, like I haven't used any of the stuff on the phone for quite some time now that I'm kind of playing with the actual hardware tools. So, but there's a lot of apps in the App Store now that are just fantastic, and I think even stuff like Snapchat's going to start incorporating it. You're going to start seeing it in TikTok before too long too. So it's going to be underneath your finger sooner than later when you ask for it.

Christian Solorzano [37:33]

And what have been some of your— yeah, since you left your previous role, what have been some of your favorite projects that you've been working on?

Brian Morris [37:43]

I think one of the things that I've learned this last year is I've become very patient and much more stoic. And so I don't get as excited about things and I don't get as upset about things anymore. And so there's been some exciting things, but I'm trying to rack my brain as to anything where I was like, I can't believe this is happening. Because, with— I think you probably— well, I think the thing I learned in corporate America is with each success comes more responsibility.

And there's a, there's a, there's a side— every shiny coin has a different side to it. So— Yeah, I think, yeah, I just try to look at everything as this is happening or it's not happening, and life is going to be interesting either way. So that's a shitty answer, but—

Christian Solorzano [38:38]

No, I feel like that's a very rational, healthy response to things because, yeah, for me, I also tend to not avoid, but I've noticed that, yeah, overexcitement sometimes, yeah, like you said, there's another side to it that you could easily just get a cloudy vision when you're in that moment of just wow, this is the best thing ever. And then that's when you sort of start tripping over yourself because you're just focusing on something so Minor.

Brian Morris [39:15]

There's— I mean, there's definitely— I think a highlight from this last year was and I know a lot of people don't like this project, but the Bored Ape Yacht Club a few times this last year, and that was really good for my exposure and brought a lot of work to my— a lot of— brought a lot of work to my eyes— brought a lot of eyes to my work. That so that was, that was pretty cool.

And I think commissions are something I didn't anticipate enjoying as much as I do. So in addition to the projects I run that are more art-based, I do a fair amount of commissions. So I get to really get to know that person. They're typically individuals that are commissioning this work. I get to know them, what's important to them, and usually come out of it pretty good friends. So that's been great.

Christian Solorzano [40:08]

And you mentioned that well, I know that there's some criticism directed at the Bored Ape Club. What is it called?

Brian Morris [40:21]

The Bored Yacht Club.

Christian Solorzano [40:24]

The Bored Ape Yacht Club. But most recently I saw that Eminem and Snoop Dogg, they performed in they, it was an animated performance where they were both in this Bored Ape costume. So it seems like a lot of celebrities and a lot of the media is like definitely like celebrating and championing this NFT space. But how does any of the criticism bother you? Or like, how do you— Like, how does that impact what you do, if it does?

Brian Morris [41:03]

I would say I— it doesn't bother me for some of the reasons we talked about earlier. I just— I'm not gonna be bothered by other people's— I can't control them. And I kind of feel like sometimes it's really easy for me to get beat up in conversations because not only am I, pro-NFT, but also like I play with AI a lot too. So it's, oh, you're a shitty artist that kills the world and you're trying to destroy craft. Great, awesome.

So there's a— I guess that all that to say that there's a— there is a lot of criticism that shows up in my DMs, or every once in a while there's a comment here or there. So I don't let it— don't let it bother me at all. I do think that there is definitely— there's a side to the NFT world that is not as savory.

And I do love what the Bored Ape Yacht Club has done, but at the same time it's moved from being a community-based kind of technology-forward space to be much more about, flossing your bags. How expensive is your profile picture? Who has the most expensive JPEG in the room? And that— I think that's really corrosive to the space.

And the projects that get a lot of press or they get a lot of liquidity, people spend money on them, are the ones that people spend money, a lot of money on. So it's like this a project may not deliver anything, but if there's enough hype around it, it's super well funded to deliver more hype.

You have projects that are like genuinely delivering something innovative in the space, doing things that have not been done before, giving people tools that they didn't have before, and they're not nearly as well funded or celebrated in the space because they just, they don't have the lifestyle, Jimmy Kimmel or whoever the hell doesn't have one as their profile picture. I think that's really unfortunate.

Christian Solorzano [43:25]

Got it. And have you, I remember when, remember it was like maybe 2 years ago, but you were really involved with Clubhouse and there was a lot of like support groups on Clubhouse that were sort of introducing the world to what NFTs are. I haven't been on— I actually uninstalled Clubhouse from my, from my phone because I was getting too many notifications. But is Clubhouse still around? Are people still using it, or is it on Twitter now? Or like, yeah, what's the latest with social media?

Because I feel like you recently I remember you posted not too long ago that Instagram is changing a lot, so you're sort of, sort of Using Twitter more now. Yeah. So again, what role does social media play in all of this? Because I feel like it plays a huge role. And how does that— again, how does that impact your work?

Brian Morris [44:21]

Yeah. It's a major distraction to my work. Okay, we'll say that. Yeah, what was— I'm trying to remember what your original question was. It was about Clubhouse.

Christian Solorzano [44:35]

It's Clubhouse still—

Brian Morris [44:36]

Yeah, no, Clubhouse is kind of— people have moved away from it. It still exists. There's still some really good late-night rooms that a few people gather in, but all the education and community is pretty much gone from there. It's gone into different places. A lot of folks have migrated over to Twitter. For sure. And now with the advent of Twitter Spaces, which is basically, Twitter just completely ripping off the Clubhouse value proposition and capabilities, everybody's pretty much moved over there.

But, on Clubhouse, it was— it kind of felt like you were sitting at the bar with these people. It was a little more intimate for whatever reason. And a little more casual. On Twitter, it's kind of like you're having a conversation in public. So you've got a different kind of public, like on a stage with millions of people listening. You've got to watch what you say. It's not casual. And again, the education isn't there anymore.

I would argue there's very little valuable content in a lot of these Twitter Spaces. It's a lot of like bag pumping and ego boosting and people giving each other flowers.

Christian Solorzano [46:05]

Flowers? What's that?

Brian Morris [46:07]

Basically when you kiss somebody's butt, you're like, okay, give you your flowers for all that you bring to the space. You're always hosting rooms and supporting other artists, and it's this toxic positivity. I know I sound like an angry white guy, but like it's really— I mean, you could go into a room and spend 3 hours in there, and all you hear is people complimenting each other about what they've done for the space.

And it's like, I— the title of the room is about X, Y, or Z, and you haven't done that yet. There's no value created here.

Christian Solorzano [46:38]

You've traveled a bit over the past year or so. I think you went to Miami and then New York. Is that my—

Brian Morris [46:46]

Yeah, it's really cool to go to a conference now like, not as a corporate citizen, but as an artist citizen.

Christian Solorzano [46:54]

As a human citizen.

Brian Morris [46:55]

Yeah, it's super cool. Yeah, I did Art Basel last year, but really it was about connecting with friends that I'd made through the NFT space. And New York was the same thing, NFT NYC. It was really great. I paid for the conference, but I think I spent 10 minutes in a chair. It was really about, yeah, I won't buy— it's a lesson for everybody, don't buy a ticket to NFT NYC, but be there because it's all the satellite events. Like it's— that's where the energy is.

And it's like, I had more valuable conversations like getting hamburgers with collectors or project than I did, at any kind of actual event.

Christian Solorzano [47:49]

And what's and what are you currently working on? Or like, what's next? What are you excited about?

Brian Morris [47:55]

A lot actually. I was having a conversation with my significant other earlier today that I don't know what to do this week because there's too much to do this week. It's almost I could jump on any of 8 things, and one of my problems with today has been I've jumped on all 8 of those things and then made no significant progress on any of them. So yeah, I'm excited about a couple things.

I have a collection on a— I'm gonna drop a collection on a different chain that I haven't used before. I'm really excited about that. Not just that I'm dropping on it, but it's a chain that I think has got a really unique value proposition and will be around for quite some time. I think some of the other chains— Ethereum will be here forever, right? Bitcoin will be here forever.

But some of the other ones, their usefulness and utility, it's only been around for a year or 2, and we'll see if they actually stick around. And so I have great hesitation in releasing art on those things because I don't want somebody to— I don't want to put my effort into something that may not exist or may not be accessible in a few years. That just— that's not what I'm trying to do. So there's that.

Insiders is an ongoing project, so that recurs every month, first week of every month. So I get that to look forward to. And then, yeah, I have a bunch of different collaborations going on and different initiatives. And then on top of that, I try to dedicate about 20% of my time just drawing things for myself that, it's kind of my research and development time. So I treat that like it's its own project too.

Christian Solorzano [49:47]

And I, and I've noticed that even like the subject matter, I know we talked a little bit about this, but and this is just my opinion, but it seems like the subject matter that you've been drawing lately— like, so I remember when you and I used to be in the same room together, you tended to draw a lot of skulls, whereas today I feel like you're drawing— like, I remember it was not too long ago that I saw that there's just more, there's just more color.

I feel like your drawings now feel like they're more colorful. There's a wider variety of like types of illustrations, like different types of characters. Like I remember when you were messing around with glass for the first time, like I remember when I first saw you post on your Instagram that you were, illustrating glass and there's— and things just felt a little bit more glossy and a little bit— you were introducing like different types of colors.

So do you have anything to say about just the subject matter, like the kind of Drawings that you've— that you've— how that— how that has evolved over time?

Brian Morris [51:01]

I think it's—

Christian Solorzano [51:05]

What I'm trying to say is that your drawings seem— your illustrations seem a little bit more happier now. They just— more— yeah, that's the word I'll use.

Brian Morris [51:16]

I think there's— how do I say this, man? I think there's a couple things. First, I'd always drawn skulls since I was a kid, so and I still draw them a lot, but I could bang it out. I could sit there eating and I could just mindlessly rock out, a skull or 50 of them, right? And so it was just kind of like a muscle memory doodle thing and the subject matter was always kind of dark because, you— well, you worked with me.

I wasn't an asshole, but I wasn't always the nicest guy. I was maybe short sometimes with people. I was always frustrated.

And I think that played a lot into it. And leaving that kind of work environment and the responsibilities and level of accountability thereof and having more time, Light and high. It's an amazing moment when you've been drawing for 4 or 5 hours and you look down and you're like, I don't feel that way anymore. A lot of my drawings do start kind of dark because I do draw a lot with quote-unquote light, and so I use darkness to kind of build up from there.

Sometimes, it happened today. I was looking at an image, I'm like, this looks really heavy. I don't feel heavy. This doesn't feel right. And so I— it sounds weird, but I just kind of turned the dials until I was like, this is what I feel like. And it was pink and blue and like had yellow in it, and it was very vibrant.

I think the ability to focus on craft now, where I can sit 4 to 10 hours a day and draw and the time and the patience that I'm able to— I appreciate that I'm able to put patience into things, and I think that makes me very happy. And I think it does. I think my mood is reflected in the work.

Christian Solorzano [53:21]

Got it. Yeah, that makes sense. And I think that's another— that's just another thing that I feel like is— because for me, I always, I always feel the most fulfilled when I'm doing projects that I pursue or projects that are personal to me.

And yeah, like you said, like you just, you almost like surprise yourself with the things that come up when you're sort of giving yourself the space to just, to just be and to not really have any expectations upon you of you need to do it with these constraints for this reason, for this purpose, etc.

Brian Morris [53:57]

Well, I mean, you know this as well as I do. One of the greatest thrills in design is working within constraints, because within that, those constraints, you can innovate. If there's a wall here and there's a wall here, well, those give me— literally give me things to bounce off of. In absence of that, it is— can be very scary, creatively. Yeah.

Not only is the page blank, but like if you have like with AI or NFTs or digital illustration or VR or AR, it's no longer a white canvas. Like it's just you can make anything, do anything. And sometimes that freedom— I say this because I struggle with it sometimes. Where it's like, I could, I can put my energy into fucking anything. What do I do?

Christian Solorzano [55:00]

Yeah, I feel you. That's— and that I always, I always feel that especially on the weekends, because on the weekends I'm like, I could do whatever I want. What do I do? It's just like the— yeah, it's a, it's a bit challenging. And I think discipline plays a big role and just managing your time and holding yourself accountable.

I think when you when you're doing something without anyone sort of expecting it, I always find that to be very challenging because, yeah, there's no one— yeah, like if you don't do it, no one's gonna find out?

Brian Morris [55:36]

Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [55:42]

No, I'm saying, so like I think for me, like for example, like setting those constraints or those guidelines or that Those, yeah, those rules for myself I always find super beneficial because without those I will either make very little progress on everything or just burn myself out.

Brian Morris [56:01]

Yeah. And well, and yes, what I was gonna say, the— you gotta be flexible though too. Like you mentioned the car building stuff, and I don't want to turn this into a car building conversation at all, but like but I would— I restore these Volkswagens partially because I want something physical to do. I don't— I enjoy them a lot, but I like the— I like assembling things. I like taking them apart. I like, making things the best versions of themselves they can be within my abilities.

And when I was still doing the corporate job, I had started a restoration project on I am working on now. I left that environment. I also left the paycheck, right? My pay is very different now than it once was, and not— it didn't go up, I will tell you that. So, I had this really high-end build that I was doing, and then all of a sudden it turned into, how do I do this for as little as possible? Same project, but the brief has changed.

How many times have you worked on a design project where you are halfway through it and they are like, Actually, we don't have the budget we thought we did, and we can't shoot there because of this reason, and client team changed, reorg. It's part of the design process is to roll with the punches.

So you can't let the whatever it is that you do to— that helps you stay motivated, you can't let the— just because the environment changes, you can't, you can't stop doing it. You gotta—

Christian Solorzano [57:45]

Yeah, I agree. And you mentioned cars, and I know cars are a big part of your life. So I just want to talk a little bit about that. What are there— what other things outside of your artwork and illustrating, what are some of the other things that you do? You restore cars. You actually like, you, from what I've seen on your Instagram, sometimes it looks like you're building a car from the ground up.

Brian Morris [58:14]

Actually, the— so my favorite spot is my garage, and that's what I'm sitting in here now because I have my drawing table, I have my incense, I got a stereo and TV out here. Please don't break in and take it. But also it's like, I'm restoring a car in here.

So like today, I drew for a few hours, got up, made breakfast, then I did some bodywork on a, on one of the fenders, and then I played with the kids, and then I came back out here and drew, and now we're talking, and I'm gonna work on the car after this. So yeah, I'm always, I always try to keep an automotive project or 2 going. Yeah, they just, it just fills me with so much satisfaction.

Christian Solorzano [59:01]

For me, it's— I feel that way about martial arts, jiu-jitsu, because it's completely unrelated to what I— what I mean, I love it, but it's not— it's not design. It's not a podcast. It's something totally different with people that don't understand what I do. And it's just such— it's so important to have those outlets.

Brian Morris [59:22]

And I also have 2 kids that keep me very busy. And I love them dearly. And I'm trying to spend as much time as I can with them now because they're getting to that age where in like 2 or 3 years, they're not gonna wanna hang out with mom and dad anymore? So I'm trying to spend as much time with them as I can. My wife also is self-employed. She has a catering business that was her side hustle that's now her thing.

So we're both, we're both independent. Sole proprietorships. So we have to support each other a lot almost in need. That's— I would say those are my other big kind of hobbies. But then this other, and I think you'll appreciate this, I have spent a lot of time trying to be more mindful this last few years. And, I don't know what you call it.

I think it's yoga of some sort, but like just the act of washing dishes and, or the act of, cleaning the windows or the act of walk— taking a walk and just being very present. I think it's a pretty cool pastime too.

Christian Solorzano [60:37]

I agree. Yeah, I 100% agree. And what do your, what do your kids think about what dad does?

Brian Morris [60:45]

They used to love it. It used to be it was so cool. The first few NFTs that sold, my son was like, somebody paid $450 for that picture, for that JPEG? Yeah, insane. I was like, that's pretty cool. So like the first few months, it was like every time a sale happened, it was like a little celebration. It really was. And now it's like, that's weird, Dad. Why do you draw the weird stuff? Why?

Christian Solorzano [61:17]

And before we wrap up, one of the things that I always like asking people is, for anyone that's listening, just what are some— especially for anyone that's listening that's maybe like new to design or that is on the edge of being a designer or doing anything art related, like what are some of those— what's some words of advice that you would have to share with someone?

Brian Morris [61:39]

You will not be creatively satisfied in your job. You can seek it, you can want it, but at the end of the day, there's going to be a hungry ghost inside of you that craves more. No matter how cool the design job you're doing, you're always going to want to do something— there's always something more interesting. And so I guess I would encourage folks to have a side passion, even if it is design.

If you're doing design for a day job, it's cool to do design for a night job too. Work on things that you're really excited about, because I think that stuff— when you work on things you're excited about, it fills up your creative tank. And then when you have to deliver on things that are required that maybe are less exciting, you kind of pull from that, pull from that tank that you filled up, right?

That creates so I would say, yeah, don't expect your job to deliver everything. It delivers a couple things. It delivers security in the form of compensation. It delivers camaraderie with your coworkers and team. It delivers challenge and intrigue in the problems that you're going to solve with those team members. And if you if you try to put a cherry on top of all that goodness, sometimes it's gonna roll off, man. It just— yeah, it's not gonna stick.

Christian Solorzano [63:11]

Yeah, I would agree with that 100%. I remember when I, when I was done with college, I thought that once I would get my first, real job, I have the job making money and I'll be fulfilled. And yeah, within, I don't know, a year or two, I just, I just began to have this longing for, yeah, for like doing what we're doing now, like talking with people and talking about design and like just, exploring and experimenting and asking questions and meeting other people.

It's just, I can't imagine a life where I'm not doing something else other than what I'm doing 9 to 5.

Brian Morris [63:53]

Well, I think and just as you become accustomed to each of those levels up, I'm finding that this sounds— this doesn't sound very inspirational. I'm making changes to my lifestyle now that map to being an artist. It's very different than being a creative officer, like very different lifestyle. I am so much happier now.

I may not be able to, fly wherever the hell I want to at any given time or buy whatever that, I can't do a $60,000 restoration on a Volkswagen anymore, but I'm happy and I appreciate what I have because I have to. Yeah, there's freedom now. I don't feel that itch you get on Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon, like Monday morning I gotta have this meeting or I gotta have this conversation. Or this client's gonna call me about this on Tuesday.

You're already in the week, in the time that they supposedly give you to not— and it's, yeah, it's a race. It's a hard race to run.

Christian Solorzano [65:03]

Yeah, definitely. Awesome. Well, if anyone wants to get ahold of you, you're a pretty responsive person. You're on social media, but for anyone that's listening, if anyone has any questions or they just wanna connect with you how could they do that?

Brian Morris [65:18]

Email is always great. Okay, that's brian@brianmorriss.art. Okay. And then on Twitter my handle is OOO000000. Just the letters, not the letters and numbers there. You don't, actually write out those words. Super hard for people to find. That's also the best. Anything else? I'm on Discord, but not many people are, so I wouldn't say.

Christian Solorzano [65:55]

And I'll make sure to put those links in the description of this episode. Awesome.

Brian Morris [66:01]

Hey, can I say one more thing?

Christian Solorzano [66:03]

Yes.

Brian Morris [66:03]

Buy my NFTs. Support. Not just mine. I would say not just NFTs, do whatever you can to support independent artists. If you need a piece of work for your home, or you want to gift something for someone, or you are working on a project that needs some custom art, do yourself a favor, do an artist a favor, and commission them to create something for you and with you.

I think you'll both get a lot out of the experience and you help bring something positive into the world. So my encouragement—

Christian Solorzano [66:42]

And people could find links to that on your website, right? How to purchase your NFTs or—

Brian Morris [66:48]

Yeah. Okay. I need to— for all the work I've done in user experience, my own commerce funnel is full of dead ends and big rivers people gotta jump over.

Christian Solorzano [67:04]

Yeah, I noticed you have 2 websites, Brian Morris, or yeah, you have 2 websites. I noticed.

Brian Morris [67:11]

There's actually 7.

Christian Solorzano [67:13]

Oh, 7. Okay.

Brian Morris [67:16]

Yeah, there's only 2 that get traffic. Okay.

Christian Solorzano [67:20]

Well, awesome.

Brian Morris [67:22]

Sweet.

Christian Solorzano [67:23]

Well, thank you so much for being on our podcast. This was great. And I feel like I learned more about you. And yeah, always very grateful to have these conversations with you.

Brian Morris [67:33]

For sure, man. And let's go grab a drink sometime or coffee or something.

Christian Solorzano [67:37]

Yeah, let's do it. Awesome.