Christian Solorzano [00:05]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a podcast by the Chicago Graphic Design Club dedicated to bringing you conversations with Chicago's creative leaders. On this podcast, we'll explore the craft, theory, and practice of graphic design, plus discuss bold ideas that push the boundaries of what's possible and ways in which we can create a more thoughtful and inclusive community. To learn more about us, visit our website at www.chicagographicdesign.club or find us on social media. Special thanks to the Chicago band Eighties Slang for our theme music.

Carlos Segura [00:44]

Thank you.

Christian Solorzano [00:58]

Hello, I am today's host, Christian Solorzano, and I'm delighted to be welcoming back Carlos Segura. In 2022, he spoke with the Chicago Graphic Design Club about authenticity in design. And if you're new to design, or if you're unaware of who Carlos Segura is, I definitely suggest you look him up. Since 1991, he's been running his studio, Segura Inc. In 1994, he founded T26 Type Foundry, and today he continues to create beautiful work with purpose, meaning, and immense attention to detail.

And if you haven't done so, you should definitely check out his interview with Christo of the Future. He goes a lot into his upbringing, history, and so forth. So it's definitely worth a listen, and I'll do my best to not repeat so many questions that you probably get asked all the time. So welcome, Carlos. Very happy that you're here. Thank you. The last time that we spoke, you were in Florida. Are you, are you still in Florida or are you in Chicago?

Carlos Segura [02:02]

No, I'm currently in Chicago. I'm back in Chicago and at the end of the month we'll be leaving for Barcelona for 2 months and then come back to Chicago for a week and then go to Florida until May.

Christian Solorzano [02:18]

Okay. Until May of next year.

Carlos Segura [02:19]

May of next year. Yeah, we have a small little office there.

Christian Solorzano [02:24]

Nice. So you, so how much time do you spend in Chicago a year? It seems like you escape the winters.

Carlos Segura [02:31]

Yeah, we pretty much it's worked out that way. Although we don't always go to Miami for the winter. Like I said, we're gonna be going to Barcelona. Although before COVID we were planning to go to Barcelona for a full year, but that was Changed. We're kind of all over the place. In general, we were in Miami from November to May. Okay, got it.

Christian Solorzano [02:55]

Nice. So I have a question. So you, so you bet, you, I follow you on Instagram and it seems like you're always up to something. You're always doing amazing work, great projects. And something that I haven't really heard you speak about is what does a day in Carlos Segura's look like? What do you like? What's your yeah, I know you work by yourself, you're working from your studio, you're able to travel and work from Chicago and other places.

Yeah, just what does your typical day look like? How do you work?

Carlos Segura [03:33]

Well, I mean, I think I'll try and keep this as interesting as possible because I know when I hear this answer on other podcasts, I disconnect. But Generally speaking, I believe that all creatives have their own method and process. And for me, my process is I usually start around 8-ish. It's funny because my whole career I have been one who doesn't need an alarm clock because my mind wakes up before my body does.

And usually it wakes up because I'm thinking of something creative, which is a blessing, I believe. And so generally, I mean, I don't really do any physical labor, meaning that I don't build things. I'm a very heavy believer in comp. I'll get into that in a second. As to what I mean, but I generally think and develop and dream in the morning and execute in the afternoon.

And back to the comp comment, I, as, I'm a big fan of print and collateral and physical object design, although obviously I'm into new media and tech and web and all that kind of stuff. But when I create something, I don't start on the computer. I'll give you an example. Let's say I do a book or a large format catalog or whatever it is.

I'll always build the blank paper comp first to see how it feels in my hand, thickness, the weight, and I do it with the papers that I plan to produce it in because it makes a difference. So I then design to that comp that I build. I don't start on the computer and then build the comp. So I, it works for me. I don't know if it works for everyone, but I really do like how something communicates physically with a human. So I love doing that.

Christian Solorzano [05:51]

Yeah, because I mean, I, for me, I work in Strictly digital medium. And yeah, to like print design to me sometimes just feels so foreign because I don't do it. So it's nice to see.

Carlos Segura [06:08]

It's a tricky thing. It's a tricky thing because even I mean, with all my years of experience, have often fallen into the trap of designing something in the computer, sending it out for a test print, which I always do. And find that the font that I thought looked good on the screen doesn't look good physically. It's not the right, either too big or too small or too thin or too thick or it's really interesting how the physicality of an execution changes the feeling.

So I always do an as quality comp test as I can before I do something. Okay.

Christian Solorzano [06:49]

And what is that? So you wake up and you said you spend your first part of the day just daydreaming. And is that coming up with project ideas? Is that working through a client's problem? Is it, is it—

Carlos Segura [07:06]

It's a wide range. It's a really large variety. Sometimes there may not even be a client involved. I'm also a big, believer in creating even if you don't have someone to create for.

Because it's a good policy for yourself just to grow and experiment. It's akin to being a musician when you go in the studio and you just, write music for the sake of creating and then something gels and then you make something. And it doesn't, it doesn't have to be a client involved or a painter for that matter.

Christian Solorzano [07:44]

Yeah. Yeah. Because I've noticed that a lot of, a lot of your projects or some projects that you post on your Instagram, for example, they seem to be self-initiated projects. And you almost provide yourself with your own prompt and you sort of—

Carlos Segura [08:01]

Yeah, I do. And I also self-produce them. Some that come to mind was, I don't know if this is the one that you're referring to. I did one called Little Litter, which is a study on, we produce so much litter as human beings. But we often think of the obvious litter, like when you say buy a shirt, let's say, for example, all the packaging that comes on a shirt, the sticker that says approved by number 9, or the tag that that's on there.

There's probably 4 or 5 tags, or even the string that's on there holding the tag. And that's actually too obvious of the objects that I have in my litter project. I'm talking about, let's say you buy a sticker sheet and you use a sticker, right? Well, when you use a sticker, all the pieces that came in that sticker sheet, the envelope that was in, the paper that is backing and all that kind of stuff, and the sticker.

And even then, after you use all that up, there's still litter left, which is the outline of the sticker, the little holes that are left to pull the sticker out. So that's the kind of like deep dive that I wanna feature on these things, which ironically creates some amazing graphics. So I just found that visually interesting. So I created this book called Little Litter.

Christian Solorzano [09:28]

Yeah. And have— has your, has your process changed much since you started Segura Inc? Or have you sort of almost always existed through the same, process style?

Carlos Segura [09:40]

Well, the— my personal process has never changed because I also believe that the process you bring to the table is born in you and dies with you. But my method has changed because there was a time when we had 18 employees. And I, when we had, as, I've been a one-man show since I think 2006. But before that, my process was what I used to call the totem pole. Well, let me rephrase.

So I generally believe that life is follows the totem pole concept, meaning that there's always somebody at the top and someone at the bottom. That's just nature. But I never followed that format in my process. I did a horizontal process, meaning that when we would get a project, I would assign the project to the entire team. I never assigned projects to specific teams. So anybody that worked here had an opportunity to dive in. And I would invite everyone to participate. There were 2 rules.

I want everyone to participate and definitely do not go into the no room.

The no room meaning that don't not do something because you think the client didn't ask for it or doesn't want it or can't afford it. Let's create what we can create and then examine what we have and then present the client the best thing we think they should do. And it was an incredible and beautiful process because we found that in quite a few cases, some of our interns, for example, would kick our butt, to be honest with you.

They were just— the work was so great. And then whoever's work was selected would lead the team to production and everyone else would help the team do the best job we could to make it happen. It was a really good way to involve everyone. Everyone took ownership and felt like there was a possibility for them to, rise above it. Good opportunity for everyone. And it worked out for us for as long as we had, this group.

Christian Solorzano [12:16]

And now that— and now, so you said you've been a one-man team since 2006. What has that been like? Or how does that— do you ever find yourself getting into, going up against, just feeling like you're facing the wall and you can't really bounce ideas off of anyone? Or like, how do you deal with that?

Carlos Segura [12:37]

I mean, I do miss that a little bit, if I'm being totally honest here. I mean, I have some People that I respect enormously in the business that are close friends as well, including the friend that I'm going to go be with in Barcelona. I basically use him as my sounding board. In fact, I have nicknamed the Maestro. I just, I just respect him so much. His name is Ken Masana. He has a studio in Barcelona called Petit Comité. And, but I do miss that interactivity.

But I also love the utter freedom to be able to just have my fingerprint on something, be it good or bad. I think generally speaking in life, you kind of have to accept the consequences of your choices, whether they're good or bad. And my consequence of being single that I miss talking to other people, but I also gain a lot of things that are valuable to me, where I don't— I can have my voice clear and in the forefront as I see fit.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [13:54]

And one of the things that I, that I mentioned, that I heard you mention on the podcast with Chris Dill was that in when you were growing up, you sort of, you almost had, you were almost presented with like a blank slate of you could sort of become who you want to become.

And if I remember correctly, you almost received I don't know if guidance is the right word, but you almost were, you were, you were presented with the opportunity to sort of make what you want out of your life. Is that, would that be a correct assumption?

Carlos Segura [14:28]

Yeah. I mean, I, it sounds more majestic the way you put it, but I grew up in a, tricky situation. And like you pointed out, if someone wants to hear it, they can listen to the Christo Project. You probably don't want me to repeat everything I said there. But it was, frankly, a miracle that I even became who I became.

Based on the scenario that I grew up in. Yeah. And it's, I mean, I really honestly don't even have an answer as to what to attribute it to because I have no education, I have no training, I have no experience. Very quickly, I was based, I mean, my plan was to be the drummer. I was a drummer at the time and that was gonna be my plan.

I was gonna be a drummer for the rest of my life and I chose to make a change to do something else purely by accident. I had no Guidance as to whether that choice was right or not. But so I say it was luck, but I mean, obviously I worked hard, but then again, you go back to the point where there's many people that work hard and they don't make it. So I don't, I don't honestly have the answer.

I get asked this question a lot and I am embarrassed to not be able to pinpoint it. But then I also think I shouldn't be embarrassed because maybe some things just don't have an answer, I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [15:59]

Yeah, but I mean, I think you still— I mean, I don't think there's any shame in something like that because I think it's a great story and I think it's inspired— I'm sure it inspires a lot of people. And I think to me, that's the greatest form of success is when you could— when someone could hear a story and say, I identify with Carlos in that regard. And, if he could do it, I could probably do something similar to that.

Carlos Segura [16:28]

Well, I definitely agree with that. And I have to tell you that in all my years of doing interviews and podcasts and shows and presentations and all that kind of stuff, I have never received more messages, emails, texts, posts referring to Chris Post, Chris Do's podcast that I did. The— it, I was, I was absolutely and utterly shocked how many people I've touched around the world. I mean, it was unbelievable. And I had no concept of what that would— frankly, I'm not even sure why.

Because I mean, it was just an honest conversation between Chris and I. But it apparently touched a lot of people and I'm quite moved by it. And I've been saving all these comments. And in fact, I sent them to Chris and he was blown away. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [17:23]

Yeah, no, that's great. Yeah. I, so for me is I was, I was raised by a single mother. She came here as like a first generation, Mexican and just being raised by a single mother and growing up in a particularly rough part of town in Chicago.

I feel like I had so many things like working against me. And a lot of my peers and a lot of the people that I grew up with, they, to this day, they're not doing so great. And yeah, sometimes people ask me the same questions, how did you manage to, go to college and get a job and, do all these things? And I'm like, I do not know other than just showing up and doing what you got to do.

And I feel like that's just, it's not a, it's nothing. Yeah, it's not. I don't think it's like the answer that sometimes people want to hear.

Carlos Segura [18:21]

But it's just well, like I said, I just don't think some questions have answers. Life has a way of throwing shitty things at you and also good things at you. And there's sometimes the receiver just has to be at the right place at the right time.

I have a special place in my heart for Mexico. Part of the story that when we came from Cuba, we were forced to go to Mexico first. And of course, when we left Cuba, we had nothing because Castro took everything from us. The only thing we had was what we were wearing. And we landed in Mexico, my mom and dad and 4 brothers.

And they must have looked very lost because when we landed at the airport, there was a very wealthy couple who was waiting for their daughter to land from vacation in Cancun. And apparently they saw my parents and approached them and asked them if they needed any help. And my parents, of course, told them the story.

And they took us in right there at the airport, took them, took us to their house, and we lived with them for 6 months until we got our feet on the ground. And then we came to Miami where I grew up. And they were friends for their whole life, for the rest of their life, friends.

It was just incredible. One of the beautiful things this gentleman did for me, I was 8 and a half years old. And he bought me this little outfit. This Zorro outfit where I had this big, hat and the mask and the gun. And he had a huge German Shepherd that I used to use as my horse. And I have a picture of that at his house. It was really amazing. That's awesome.

Christian Solorzano [20:18]

I love stories like that. So you came to Chicago in the '80s. And then in '91, that's when you founded Segura Inc. And right now, so I see your— I see you on Instagram, and I always see that you're— that one, you're very active, and people, when— and you're actually the person that runs your accounts, like it's not an assistant, and you're commenting and, all that kind of stuff. But I've noticed that you have multiple accounts.

So you have the Documentary Den, and you have Core Type, and then you have Seen by Segura. So how has—

Carlos Segura [20:57]

And Mototype and Hatch Heaven.

Christian Solorzano [20:59]

Yes. So how do you, how do you just balance yeah, just how do you, how do you, how do you balance the social media?

Carlos Segura [21:09]

Well, I don't see social media as a separate thing. I see it as part of my existence. That's just part of who we are today as human beings on this planet. It's not a separate thing for me. It's just an arm of the things I gotta do. And frankly, the way I look at it is I personally, as a human, I need distractions. I can't be on one thing all the time.

So I love being able to switch between T26 and Car Type and Segura and Hatch Heaven Documentary and all those other accounts that I have.

Because I find them to be Basically educational training sessions for me. I mean, the things that I learn every day is absolutely mind-boggling. I mean, I believe that if you're an idiot today, it's because you want to be an idiot. I mean, there's just no other answer to it because all the answers in the history of the planet are at your fingertips.

And you can learn so many things by just exploring. So I absolutely adore exploring. I'm a huge fan of my documentary and feed on Instagram because I just cannot tell you how much I learned with that. It's just absolutely amazing.

Christian Solorzano [22:26]

And I think it's just also a great way to just archive things and just, it's a reference, it's a form of, it's a modern-day scrapbook, if you will.

Carlos Segura [22:36]

Yeah. But I also love the part of sharing. I love the part of exposing these little tidbits of jewelry, informational jewelry. I get a kick out of it. I don't know. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [22:56]

So what are— so what have you been working on lately? I saw your latest project on your Instagram for Celsius Films. And I thought that was so beautiful. I— that project has not gone live yet, is that correct?

Carlos Segura [23:12]

Well, believe it or not, that project is let me see, when did I do that? I did that some— I actually did this a few, some years ago, and I just happened to post it because I'm so far behind, to be honest with you. I'm just gonna admit it. I, as you pointed out, I have so many projects that I am involved in that sometimes I fall behind. One of my, one of my absolute loves is my project for CarType.

I'm an enormous car fan, but not in the traditional sense. I mean, I should say in the traditional sense, but in addition to the traditional sense, I am a fan because of what to me, the car industry encompasses.

Frankly believe it's one of the greatest things humanity has ever done and the reason why we've all expanded our mind. If you know anything about the car industry, you'll know that before Henry Ford invented the Model T, almost 99% of all humans on the planet didn't venture out more than 5 miles from the place that they grew up in or were born for their entire life. I mean, that's an incredible statement. Just think about that.

And the achievements and efforts that it takes to create a vehicle in every aspect of the supply chain is just unbelievable to me. And every single thing was touched by a human being, was designed by a human being, tested by a human being. Marketed by a human being, bought by a human being. I mean, and the list goes on and on and on and on.

And it's absolutely amazing, the process that it takes to make something in that sector and the risk and the expense and blah. And even if you took all of that off the table, specifically my website, cardtype.com, is an effort to archive the history of the automotive industry through typography. So I combined 3 things that I love: design, typography, and automobiles.

So one of my, one of the things that keeps my head, super busy these days, I've been creating a series of books that archives the stories behind every single logo, what they mean, why they were named that way, who named them, who designed them. How, what, I mean, it's just, it's an extensive process. And because I'm a one-man show, I mean, I'm just behind all the time.

So that's why it takes so long to— and by the way, I shoot all the photographs, I go to all the cars. I mean, everything is done by me. So yeah, it's a bit of a handful.

Christian Solorzano [26:11]

Yeah, I love that. And I think I agree to what you said earlier. It's nice to know that it's like your entire fingerprint on it. And, you're responsible and yeah, I identify with that as well.

Carlos Segura [26:23]

And I mean, could it be better? Sure, it could be better. I mean, but—

Christian Solorzano [26:26]

Yeah, but you did it. You did it.

Carlos Segura [26:29]

Yeah, I did it. So it's fine. I don't care.

Christian Solorzano [26:31]

And it'll get better. It'll just keep getting better the more you do it. And yeah, I like that. So what have you— so you're, so you're going to be going to Barcelona soon. Are there any like new projects or anything that you've been working on lately that's just been like, exciting or anything that you could share with us?

Carlos Segura [26:54]

Yes, absolutely. One of the things that I've grown to, well, not grown, I've always done this, but I'm doing it more is I've decided to donate my creative services for free to nonprofit organizations that I believe need help. So I just, for the last 4 or 5 months, I've been working on rebranding and redoing every single thing for the Chicago Korean Dance Company.

We just had a meeting last night. So I have been just building all of the materials. We're hoping to launch a new website in the next few weeks, but also come out with a series of books and posters and a bunch of collaterals archiving the history of the Korean dance culture and what all their outfits mean and their, what their dances mean, where they were born, how, all that kind of beautiful historical perspective.

And it's taken a bit of time, but, because it's hard to create things like this when you have no money. But we've got a lot of people that are willing to contribute and some pretty amazing photographers that have agreed to jump on board. We're in the process of building that and hopefully it'll come out soon.

Christian Solorzano [28:17]

Yeah. I always find it so unfair sometimes when you see great, like nonprofits with a great vision and mission that simply can't afford professional design services. And as a result, they just, they look bad?

Carlos Segura [28:33]

They look bad. They're the worst ever. That's the— it's a good point that you bring up because here, these organizations are simply, they exist to feature and showcase their beautiful history and they have no venue to do it.

So I'm gonna take this opportunity on your podcast to ask our community to select a nonprofit. If you're a design firm or professional designer, let's join forces and select a nonprofit and do work for them to help them out. Pick whoever you want, whatever touches you, pick whoever you want. And, make the world a better place.

I do have a couple of little policies that I try to follow when I do nonprofit work, especially free, which is I have 2 rules on my agreement that I believe you've seen on my website.

Christian Solorzano [29:38]

Are they different? Do you have like a different business card for pro bono work?

Carlos Segura [29:43]

I don't have a separate business card for pro bono, but I have a separate section on my contract. And calling it a section is a bit exaggerated because it's 2 lines. And one of them is I have final say. Because you're not paying. So if you don't like what I do, that's perfectly fine. You're perfectly free to keep what you have. But if I'm gonna go in here and donate everything for free, I have final say.

So that's one of the two lines. The other one I can't remember right at this time. If you don't, I think it's phrased, if you don't pay, I have final say.

Christian Solorzano [30:20]

Okay. And what about, what about the whole, the one about like if your wife brings you like a sketch that she did or something like—

Carlos Segura [30:31]

Yeah, let me see if I can find it because it's actually pretty interesting. It's not a that's on, not on my green, that's on my business card. Let me see.

Christian Solorzano [30:43]

I will not use your wife's favorite color.

Carlos Segura [30:45]

That's, that's— Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, I will not use, I will, I will not agree with everything you say. I will not always say yes. I will not use your favorite, your wife's favorite color. I will not assume the target is stupid. I will not rely on focus groups. I will not make the logo bigger and I will not do something that's been done before.

Christian Solorzano [31:05]

Yeah. So something I always really appreciate about your work is that it's always like, there's always like such strong attention to detail and like everything you do just feels so smart. Like it's just so clever and it's like, of course it would be that. It could not be that. It just seems like so obvious?

Carlos Segura [31:30]

That's so beautiful for you to say. Thank you so much, because I mean, honestly, that's really the biggest award I could possibly get. For someone to recognize that.

Christian Solorzano [31:40]

Even your Documentary Den, logotype, the, the— it's like the 2 D's and they're coming together and they're literally Documentary Den and they're making a den of documentary, like it's just, it's of course like that like it needs to be that it can't be anything else but that.

Carlos Segura [32:01]

I just made a presentation last week to Shopify on branding and that specific subject, how to be smart. And yeah, again, not talk down to people and blah. And the comments that I got in that presentation were very similar to the one that you just gave me, which was so it was so touching. It was just so fantastic that a creative person like me or anybody else can work and try to achieve that kind of messaging. And it'd be received and recognized and acknowledged.

I mean, that's the best pat on the back you could possibly get.

Christian Solorzano [32:40]

Yeah. And have you seen any Have you seen, for instance, like the rise of things like social media or just design becoming something that is— like, I still remember when I was in college, I used to buy design magazines and you would see work in them that you wouldn't be able to see anywhere else. And I think sometimes for myself, I could— I feel a little bit overwhelmed by just like the sheer number of just visual stimuli of design that's just like nonstop.

You could spend all day just looking at beautiful type on the internet. And I don't know, for me, it sometimes becomes a little bit overwhelming. So what I've done is I've set boundaries, and I know that when I'm working on a project, I almost avoid looking at other graphic design.

Carlos Segura [33:41]

Yeah. Well, I mean, I have a lot to say about this. So I, there's many things to observe. I think obviously, and I am like you, I used to use magazines at the time before the web as a, expansion of the mind, I guess. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The problem maybe is that there's just so much of it. But that really isn't the problem. I think that the problem is that we're so enamored with effect as opposed to concept.

And I've always believed that if you're any kind of designer that's worth your weight, it's pretty easy to do cool, but it's better to do cool and smart. And I think we forget the smart part.

And so we're so consumed by making something look funky or fancy or full of effects and all that kind of stuff. But we forget the idea. And, I like beautiful things as much as the next guy. But after a while, it's like going to Europe and seeing these beautiful churches. After you see 3 or 4, they all look alike.

After you see, 5 or 10 amazingly done, and they are amazingly done, but lacking of concept pieces of work on the web, you just start to think, oh God, I don't know. So I think what's happening, if I may be so bold as to say, is that the up-and-coming designers that perhaps don't have enough experience under their belt are defaulting to something that's just wow, has a wow factor visually, but isn't based on a strategy or a concept or an idea or even something majestic.

So I think that maybe trying a little bit harder is due. I think to your point earlier, you mentioned that my work is very simple but smart. And I think that that's okay. It's not— some of it is, fancy, I guess the word you could call, with effects and so forth. But I don't believe any of them are lacking a message or an idea or a reason for existing, even down to things like— I'll give you an example.

We did this brochure for Corbis that featured images from the 1920s that were all black and white. They were for the Batman Archives.

The conceptual delivery of that piece was couched around the paper we printed it on, which was we went out of our way to purchase new old newspaper stock, new old stock of newspapers from the '30s and '40s. And it was very difficult to find this paper, not because it was difficult to find the paper, but it was difficult to find old paper that would survive new presses because they all ripped. They were very delicate.

So we wanted this piece to look, feel, and smell like you had just picked it up from a news vendor on the street corner in 1950. So even down to things like that is the level of detail that I try to bring to a project, something that is probably completely invisible to the user. Not to the user experience. You know?

Christian Solorzano [37:28]

Yeah. Yeah, I like that. And so what would you say, like what sort of something we always ask our guests are, the question is what like, what would you say to, let's say, a designer that's just finishing college or a designer that's just entering the field? What sort of, yeah, just what sorts of words of wisdom would you, would you say to them?

Well, like someone that wants to come in and they're very enthusiastic about just wanting to change the world with graphic design, because I think a lot of people just have this idea that, I'm gonna design the one poster that like ends world hunger and it's gonna be everywhere. It's gonna be in the history books. So what would you, what would you say to someone that's overly ambitious?

Carlos Segura [38:17]

And, well, first of all, I'm gonna tell you that that's not gonna happen. And also just be true to yourself. I mean, and that means so many things and God, I've heard that a thousand times, but there's really some basic advice that just needs to happen. The most basic is that 9 out of 10, you're not gonna make it. That's just the reality of life.

And so if you wanna be that number 1, the 1 of those 9, of those 10, then you gotta like be true to yourself and not be afraid of showing who you are.

Like take a risk, be strong and be honest with your delivery of what you think, who you are. Now, that doesn't mean you're gonna make it either. But I mean, give you a head start. The problem with advice is I told Chris Doe is that it's kind of bullshit. You know because I could give you step by step directions of every single thing that I did, and it probably may not work for you. Shit, it may not even have worked for me if I repeated it.

So it's kind of like, it's in the stars, right?

Christian Solorzano [39:27]

Yeah.

Carlos Segura [39:27]

But at the end of the day, if you have talent that's unique and special, then your job, your responsibility is to get that out there. Not do what other people ask you to do. Do what you need to do. Show them what you are, show them who you are. People can't see who you are unless you show them.

You can't expect them to visualize something they can't see. So it's just a matter of having personal strength to dedicate yourself to your craft and bring it out to the masses. It may work, it may not, who knows? But I mean, you gotta try. I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [40:10]

I'm with you on that. And then, and I have another question. So you've been in Chicago for some time, and we— the one of the things that the Chicago Graphic Design Club is always trying to do is we're always trying to figure out new ways to fill in the gaps or to bridge the community or to sort of bring awareness to people like yourself, to talks, to other designers, to other ways of working.

So and the design club really came as a result of me feeling like there was just a lack of community in Chicago, particularly like right when the pandemic started. I just felt like a lot of us were just very fearful. And I think design is always at the intersection of everything. And I think design is always a means to a call to action and a means to respond to things. So we were formed as a byproduct of that.

So now that the world is, we're doing things in person now and we're, not forced to wear masks and so forth, we're, we, we're just always asking ourselves the question of what could we do to make Chicago be a little bit better when it comes to our industry and to make us, make us feel a little bit more empowered and to, put Chicago more on the map.

Because I, from stories that I hear is other conversations that I've had with other people, Chicago appears to have been like a design hub, like in the '90s. Like there was a lot of great design happening here. And I think I wasn't around to witness that. And I certainly don't feel like that's happening today.

Carlos Segura [42:07]

Yeah, I agree.

Christian Solorzano [42:08]

And yeah, so we're just always asking ourselves this question is like, what could we do? How could we, make people want to come to Chicago because Chicago is known for its XYZ?

Carlos Segura [42:21]

Well, I've always been surprised by the lack of involvement in our community and I will be the first to raise my hand and admit guilt because I'm not too much of a club community kind of guy. I'm a bit of a loner. In fact, I would venture to say that I'm almost shy. But it's interesting because Chicago has always been known, and I go back to the 1800s, when J.

Walter Thompson first opened up its doors here in Chicago has always been known as an advertising hub of the United States, not just Illinois.

And it was basically known as a packaged goods advertising community and almost every brand and every agency was here and created some incredible historical work. And then as you point out in the '80s and '90s and even into the early 2000s, it was famous for a lot of creative, including house music, for example. Even if you go before house music, we were famous for the blues and then for the jazz.

And if I can even go further back, creatively speaking, it was known for cars in the early 1900s. Motor Row on Michigan Avenue was the hub for every car manufacturer had a dealership on Michigan Avenue, most of which were electric vehicles. But I digress. But anyway, my point is that in the '90s with the likes of Rick Valicenti, one of my heroes, and, at the time VSA was just become, was a hot shop. I mean, they're still around, they're still great.

But they were much smaller back then. It was, it was us, Thirst, VSA, and a couple of other design firms that were kind of like putting Chicago on the map. And then I don't know, something happened that it just kind of like all got conservative, I feel, after the Barnbrook years.

The experimental Ray Gun and Carson, all that kind of stuff. We got so experimental that then somehow I feel like we got afraid and we just came back and, sorry, he doesn't like skateboards. I don't know why. Anyway, so I feel like we got a little bit conservative and went back into hiding, for lack of a better word?

Christian Solorzano [45:13]

Yeah.

Carlos Segura [45:14]

And, but I think we're starting to get out of it a little bit. I think that the creative that's been happening for the last 5 to 7 years, I feel an incredible curve of difference. It's just so beautiful, so clean, so well produced and so creative. And I feel More than ever, more design firms are trying harder than before. I feel like packaged goods and general consumer products were just lazy. I mean, go to any grocery store and there's proof of it all around you.

But I feel like a lot of stuff is really coming out and really beginning to show the capabilities that we bring to the table as designers. But to your question though, I don't know. I think you're doing a great job. I mean, first of all, congratulations and kudos to you for even making an effort because it's not easy.

So I think that you and people like you who do these podcasts and make an effort to share conversations like we're having now with other people is an absolutely awesome way to get the ball rolling. And maybe through your channels, expand the invitations that I just made, for example, about the pro bono work. Maybe we can all get together.

And organizations like yours can create a specific program where we say, hey, let's get a page on our website. Let's invite design agencies to join our pro bono project and we can pick clients that need help with and match them with agencies that are willing to help and, stuff like that. And then maybe having shows and events that showcase the work that this relationship created, perhaps. I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [47:09]

Yeah, that's something that we've been thinking about because I think it's very easy to complain about. I mean, I think it's very easy to complain and I think like, why complain when you could do something about it?

Carlos Segura [47:25]

Yeah, you just got to do something. And I think you are of the mind, knowing a little bit of your history and what you've done here with this program, that you're more of a doer than a complainer.

Christian Solorzano [47:36]

I mean, I certainly complain a lot, but I also—

Carlos Segura [47:40]

Well, I do too. Don't get me wrong. But that's because we're human.

Christian Solorzano [47:44]

So you mentioned Rick Valisensi as like being one of your design heroes. Who are some of the other people that have like inspired you or some of the designers that you look up to or that—

Carlos Segura [47:59]

Well, there's a lot of people. I mean, too many to name. And some of the ones that I named like Sagmeister and Balasani and people like that and Brody and Chris Ashworth and Ian from Designers Republic and alike. I mean, those are, but oh, here's a really interesting story.

I went to Seattle last week, and I went to go see a house, and we called a realtor who we texted, and he goes, obviously when I text, he sees that it's from Carlos Segura, and he goes, is this really Carlos Segura? And I go, yeah, why? He goes, because I used to work At Woody Pirtle. I don't know if you guys know who Woody Pirtle is from Pushpin Studios. He— this guy changed the face of graphic design.

Anyway, he says, we're— we were just absolutely huge fans of yours. And I can't believe that I'm going to be showing a house to Carlos Segura and Woody Pirtle that always talks about him. And I'm telling you, man, I was such a huge fan of Woody Pirtle. I just could not— I mean, the name alone, Woody Pirtle. So, but to answer your question, a bigger scope, I think that my influences have been more global in scope than specific. And this is what I mean.

When I was first coming into the ad agency world, and by the way, I got into the ad agency world because I because I had no education, I really didn't know there was a difference between design and advertising.

By accident, I got into advertising. And one of the things that always inspired me, 2 of the things was the typographical aesthetics of British type direction and the visual aesthetics of Japanese design of the late '70s and '80s. My goal was to go work for Dentsu, which I got an offer to do in 1989. And we were going to go move to Japan with my copywriter as a team. And at the time, Japan had very high quotas for creatives.

They had separate quotas for writers and designers. And when the moment came for us to leave, the art director quota had been filled, so I couldn't go, but the writer quota was open. And so that was the fork in the road for me where my writer went to Japan and I stayed here and started Segura Inc. That's why I started Segura.

But I was always motivated by those 2 things with the goal of trying to inject as much commercial art into, I'm sorry, most fine art in commercial art as I could. With typography and aesthetics of just cleanliness and beauty and concept. So that's kind of the rule I've been following my whole career is trying to bring those 2 things and unifying them in advertising and design. And that's kind of the method that I've followed. Yeah, it hasn't left me.

Christian Solorzano [51:27]

Yeah. I was looking at— so the entire like Emigre collect— like archive is online, and sometimes I go for them for just, to read. And surprisingly, before recording this episode a few days ago, I just picked like a random issue and I have it pulled up here, and it was issue 65, which is the one that you were featured in, where someone was asking you like, why do you use Helvetica? What do you remember?

Carlos Segura [51:56]

Can you read it to me? What did I say?

Christian Solorzano [51:58]

So you— so someone asked, why do you use Helvetica? And you said, I use Helvetica and fonts like it because it seems to best capture the sense of clarity and cleanliness prevalent in our current visual landscape. From architecture to furnishings to design, there seems to be a desire for simplicity that this type of typography feels at home with. Do you remember that? Would you say you still agree with that statement?

Carlos Segura [52:25]

I don't remember. I don't even remember the article, to be honest with you, but I still believe that. I will expand on that a little bit just for the spirit of clarity. I don't believe that we should all default to that. I think that again, everything is available at your fingertips on the web and there's never been more options in the world, in the history of the planet for you to do typographical experiments.

But I do believe that you should always work hard to find the right font for the right project, not the right font that's installed on your computer, the right font that's right for the project. Now, have I been guilty of violating that rule every once in a while? Maybe. But I mean, it's really a good habit to fall into to kind of do your due diligence with typography.

Yeah, I am one that always tends to begin with the typographical spirit of the message. I always begin with typography. And that leads me to other things.

Christian Solorzano [53:31]

Yeah. And then another question that you were asked was do you use Helvetica to show allegiance to a certain approach or style or to a certain ideology? And your answer was no. Do you, would you continue, you still stand by that?

Carlos Segura [53:47]

What year was this, by the way?

Christian Solorzano [53:48]

This was in I believe 2003.

Carlos Segura [53:54]

Jesus Christ, man, I'm losing my mind. What issue was that?

Christian Solorzano [54:01]

Issue 65. I could send you a link.

Carlos Segura [54:03]

Please, I want to read my own article.

Christian Solorzano [54:07]

But I mean, sometimes, yeah, sometimes looking through these, through these publications, it's just yeah, it's just so, it's so interesting to sort of see things documented and just to sort of have an archive of things of, yeah, stories from time ago. And that's something that I really miss.

That's something that I always feel like is, I mean, we have, obviously there's online articles and things like that, but I think with Emigre, there is a very particular experience of, the surprise and like the novelty of looking at a particular spread and just like studying it and like holding it up to your face.

Carlos Segura [54:50]

Just touched on a really interesting point that I often think about, which is a good and bad, I guess, observation, which is, I mean, all these, this podcast, for example, that we're doing, the presentations, and they're all digital. They're all like on the web and blah. And it's great. I mean, it's absolutely amazing because as I mentioned, for the one I did with Christo, I've reached people all over the world that I would just absolutely have never had the opportunity to do, right? Okay.

So that's the good part. The bad part, however, is that, and I akin it to like my entire life's history, of images is in iPhoto or Photos now. My laptop. When I die, my life is gone. I didn't exist, right? Because there's no photo albums, there's no, physical things. And to your point about this Emma Gray article, wouldn't it be absolutely beautiful if all these interviews and podcasts that are out there today, they're one day gonna disappear.

Printed in book form and be archived in a beautiful library and for future generations to see and touch and feel and flip the pages like you're doing with this Emigrate 65, telling what I said back in 2003, for God's sake. I mean, it's just fantastic. I mean, I just miss that. And that's the thing that I love about print is that relationship you can rehab every time you open that book.

Christian Solorzano [56:27]

Yeah, I was talking with— so one of our recent guests was Patric King, and he was telling us about some of the typography that he worked with Rick Valicenti back in the day. And he was telling me how he had to revisit those files and how it was very difficult for him to be able to— for his computer to open up these files that are no longer compatible with technology today.

So even just the idea of not even being able to access things that you were, able to access, 20 years ago, to me—

Carlos Segura [57:06]

Not only that you were able to access, things that you created. Exactly.

Christian Solorzano [57:10]

And it's, and it's just, it's scary to think that one day you might not even be able to experience your own work.

Carlos Segura [57:16]

Sorry, another skateboard. I just spent the last, I don't know, 2, 3 years redoing my website. And the reason it took so long is because I had to literally reshoot every single thing because I couldn't open most of the projects. And there's so many beautiful projects that we did as a team back in the day that I would love to be able to put on an archive section of our site, but I just cannot.

First of all, I don't have the copies of the pieces anymore that I can't reshoot, and I can't open the files. And it's a real shame. It's a real shame that those things are gone forever. You know?

Christian Solorzano [57:57]

So what do you, so what do you, so how do you go about archiving things now? Do you, do you, do you, for example, if you work on a website, do you print screenshots of it and just file them somewhere?

Carlos Segura [58:09]

Or? Yeah, I'm actually an, I mean, I am such an organized person that Almost 100% of every friend I've ever had makes fun of me for it. It's, I bring it to a ridiculous state and I admit it in public here. But I definitely am very organized. And, funny point, even to the degree that I'm organized, I still can't find some shit that I did a few years ago and the stuff that I can find, I can't open.

So sometimes it doesn't help. But one of the things that I have begun to do is every 4 or 5 years I will reopen, and this is so anal, I'm ashamed to admit it. I'll reopen every file that I have and resave it with a newer version of that software. Gives me an additional 5 to 10 years to look at it. Last year I spent almost 9 months renaming every single file on my computer. I mean, it's embarrassing. That's how anal I am about organization.

Christian Solorzano [59:12]

I feel like that's the point where you might benefit from an assistant or from someone else, right?

Carlos Segura [59:19]

I know that someone's gonna listen to this and they're gonna think to yourself, bullshit, Carlos didn't do that. He doesn't have time to do that. He's not gonna do that. But I swear to God, my hand to God, I Did it. I actually did it. Now, I didn't do it in one sitting. I do, 15 minutes a day, blah, because I mean, it's impossible. You'd go insane. But yeah, no, I did it and it worked for most of the files.

Christian Solorzano [59:49]

So do you, do you also, because I love your website and do you build, do you code it or how do you go about that?

Carlos Segura [59:59]

That website, actually, I used to have my website it used to be a custom site and then I switched to Squarespace many years ago and then Squarespace went to version 2.0 and I think they got a little bit too conservative. So I switched to Cargo.

And my current site is built on Cargo, which is slightly modified but not too much. I think that this is another thing I often see websites that are so full of trickery and animations and this and that and I mean, they're amazing, but my only observation would be that it's cool for the first or second or maybe even third or fourth or fifth time you visit the site, but then it just gets in the way.

So I'm a huge believer of the content being king and that's when these, that's what you're there to see. So that's, I just approach it in such a simplistic way that it's, yes, it's a website, but it's really just an online portfolio is what it is. So that's all it is. And that's all I want it to be. I don't want it to be anything else.

Christian Solorzano [61:07]

Yeah. 'Cause I mean, you want the work to speak for itself. You don't want the work to be overshadowed by a fancy cursor or, some sort of special effect.

Carlos Segura [61:16]

And again, just to be clear, I'm not dissing anybody. I think some of the stuff that I see on the web, most of the stuff, it's just utterly amazing. And I could never do it myself ever, period. But I just, for me, I think that I just want to have the work up there. And that's the end of that. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [61:34]

Awesome. So we're almost at time. And before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us. It's been great. And I think every time I, every time I get a chance to speak with you, every time I hear you speak, I feel like I'm always learning something new about you.

Carlos Segura [61:52]

Thank you, man.

Christian Solorzano [61:53]

So thank you so much.

Carlos Segura [61:55]

Thank you.

Christian Solorzano [61:55]

So before we wrap up if anyone wants to find you or if anyone wants to reach out you seem to be— you're very responsive. So it's safe to say that people could just reach out to you via Instagram or your email or any of that stuff?

Carlos Segura [62:12]

Yeah, I think I mean, I'm active on every single platform. I'm LinkedIn, Facebook Twitter. Instagram, blah. There's, when you go to my website, segura-inc.com, there's a little plus sign on the upper right-hand corner. If you click on that, you can join my newsletter or contact me from there. Ideally, it would be better to do it via email, but I can certainly respond via Instagram.

I tend not to be too, a little bit more careful on social because I do get a lot of spam and a lot of people trying to, do this, that, or the other. And I don't know who people are. So sometimes I'm a little bit careful, but just send me it. I'd be happy to communicate with anybody that wants to reach out. I'm pretty accessible. And happy to be also. Great. Awesome.

Christian Solorzano [63:07]

Well, thank you so much, Carlos.

Carlos Segura [63:09]

This was great. Thank you, man. Thank you so much.

Christian Solorzano [63:11]

And I hope you enjoy your time in Barcelona.

Carlos Segura [63:13]

Oh my God, I cannot wait. I just cannot wait. I absolutely love it.

Christian Solorzano [63:17]

So you won't be back in Chicago till next year?

Carlos Segura [63:19]

I won't be back. Well, I'll be back at the end of the last day of November, and then I'll be here for a week, but then I'm gone for until May. So.

Christian Solorzano [63:29]

And does your dog go with you? You have a dog, right?

Carlos Segura [63:32]

Oh yeah, I have a dog. It's gonna be painful because I have to leave him and it's just, he doesn't like it and I don't like it and nobody's happy. Yeah. Nobody's happy. He kind of knows. He's already looking at me. I swear to God, he knows. I don't know how the hell he knows. Yeah, awesome, man.

Christian Solorzano [63:51]

Well, thank you so much.