Christian Solorzano [00:06]

Hello, you are listening to Underscore, a podcast by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano. A question that I sometimes get asked is, what is my favorite part about running the club? And my answer is always the people. And the friends that I've made over the last 3 years. And on today's episode, I speak with a close friend of mine and a collaborator and someone that I've met on behalf of the club, Cheryl Bever.

Cheryl, who you might know if you are in our Discord community, plays an important role with the club. She facilitates conversations through our Discord community She runs our newsletter and she collaborates on our programming. And in this conversation, she shares what it was like to transition from fashion into graphic design. She talks about how she started her own business, and we discuss a little bit about what the value of community is and so much more.

It's a conversation that was long overdue, and as always, I'm just very happy to be sharing it with you. So I hope you enjoy it. Good morning, Cheryl. How are you doing this morning?

Cheryl Bever [01:30]

Hey, Christian. I'm doing well. Thank you.

Christian Solorzano [01:33]

So I'm so glad that we're finally— that you're finally on our show because you, you've been around with the club for quite some time. And if I remember correctly, you started by coming to our book discussions somehow. I always noticed that you were very engaged and you were always participating and you were— you just became this core member. That I, it just felt like the right thing for me to ask, which was if you wanted to join our little committee.

And you've been really involved for the past, I mean, for the past year, you've been really engaged. So I'm glad that, yeah, that you're on the show with us. So with that said, I want to start our conversation by asking you, what would you tell younger Cheryl? If yeah, just if you had 15 minutes with her.

Cheryl Bever [02:28]

Just trust yourself. I think that's one thing I've always had a really hard time with is like trusting my gut and believing that I was like, this sounds silly, but smart enough to make the right decision and move on it. And, even if you don't make the right decision, it's okay. It's not like your life is the end, you have time to maneuver and pivot and try something new and, kind of take it as it comes.

I feel so much of growing up is like, oh, if you don't do this, the rest of your life is going to be terrible. And I think that that's definitely a falsehood that a lot of people grow up with, I think.

Christian Solorzano [03:05]

Yeah. And I think as we get older, there's certainly things to learn, but I think the important things are the things that we unlearn. And to your point, there's just so much that yeah, that we have to unlearn.

Cheryl Bever [03:19]

Yeah, that's actually a really good word. I like that. I had to unlearn a lot.

Christian Solorzano [03:25]

Could you tell us how you found about the Chicago Graphic Design Club and sort of what that introduction to our community was like?

Cheryl Bever [03:33]

Yeah, sure. So I'm an independent designer. And I went and started my own business. Kind of decided like, okay, this is my life now. This is something new. I need to get into more like artsy things and designer things, and I need to learn more about this because I didn't go to school for graphic design. I actually went for fashion design. So I'm like, okay, I need to learn about it and what other people are doing, because it's not something I've ever involved myself in.

And the club came up in a Google search, and oh, they were having this book discussion like Okay, I need to read about designery things and design books and, see the state of the industry. So I— and I didn't even get the book. I just kind of jumped into it and I'm like, well, this will be cool. I'll listen to everybody else kind of talk about the book. And I think I was expecting it to be a presentation more than actual, discussion.

So I jumped on knowing that I hadn't read the book, and I was like, I'll just kind of hide in the background, and listen to what everybody else is saying. Well, I get in there, and I think that there was maybe like 6 or 8 people, and you immediately went around and was like, okay, everybody introduce yourself. And I'm like, oh shit, I gotta talk. I looked a mess, and you're like, all of this, and I'm like, it doesn't matter. Just jump in and do it.

This is, again, this is your life now. You're trying something new. And I just kind of sucked it down and jumped off being the fly on the wall. And we talked. And even though I hadn't read the book, I felt like I kept up with it pretty well and interjected when I felt like I could offer something. And it went so great. I met you and Jamie and Angela and a whole bunch of people. And it was just oh my gosh, this is super cool.

And it Immediately from there, I followed you on all the social media channels and signed up for the newsletter and all of these things. I'm like, this is where I want to be. It was just everything fell into place and okay, this is cool.

Christian Solorzano [05:44]

Yeah, that's nice to hear. So you, so you mentioned that you actually went to school for fashion and you studied here at Columbia College in Chicago. How, what was that transition from doing fashion into getting into design and then ultimately into starting your own, your own business?

Cheryl Bever [06:05]

So in— I really liked Columbia College because I felt like they taught you— not only did they teach you like the art side of everything, they also taught you how to use the art and make money from it, how to, how to sell yourself, how to be a business in that. And I really like that. So they made you take classes that maybe you wouldn't normally take, just so you could get a different perspective on things and learn how to kind of put yourself out there.

So within the fashion program, I had to take photography, film photography, so like black and whites. We had to develop our own stuff, which was cool. And then a couple business classes. And then we also had to take a CAD pattern making because everything was kind of— this was Gosh, I was in college in the late '90s, early 2000s. So it was kind of like the computers were really starting to get into everything and kind of take over.

So we learned CAD pattern making and how to apply patterns to fabrics and all these things. And my professor really liked me, and she's like, you really took to this. She's like, we have a job posting from a local furniture manufacturer that just got this whole new like CAD program, and they need somebody to come in and man it. I'm like, okay, so I thought, why not? I'll give it a try. A body is a body, right?

Who cares if it's a sofa or a person or whatever? So I went in and I just kind of started doing it. And, eventually that kind of morphed into I became their product development manager because I was doing all the new patterns and things and was able to take what the designer had and then take it back to the workroom because we actually did all of our sewing and manufacturing in-house on the South Side of Chicago.

And I was able to kind of translate what the designer wanted to the, to the production team. And yeah, that just kind of took off. And I kind of grew through the ranks there. And I actually left because I still had that big vision, I'm going to be this famous fashion designer, right? So I actually left there to take on a job at a purse manufacturer, doing handbags and wallets and things like that.

And okay, this is more in line it was kind of a step away from the furniture and going in the path direction I wanted. That job ended up being nothing like what I thought it would be, and it just didn't work out. So I left there and was kind of unemployed for some time, and I was still friends with everybody at the furniture place.

So I would go back and we'd hang out for lunch and stuff, and the owner actually approached me and he's like, well, what are you doing right now? And I'm like, yeah, nothing. I'm doing like little odd jobs here and there. And he's like, well, we're starting this new B2C website and we'd like you to run it. Okay, why not? I'm not doing anything anyway. So I went in and started doing that. And so I didn't build the site.

I'm not that great at web design, but I'm able to populate it. And I knew enough to where I could force the site to do the things I wanted to do and look the way I wanted to look. As they always said, I knew enough to be dangerous, but not enough to build it. And I, yeah, I just kind of doing that. And I like things a certain way, the way I want them.

So because of that, I wanted the photographs of the products to be a certain way to look on the website. And I'm pretty impatient when I want things my way. So I took the camera and I started taking my own photography, and I wanted to, so that way the things I wanted would be done when I wanted them, and I could take them and plop them into Photoshop and create the banners and the header images and all of that.

And the owner liked what I was doing, so I— he started throwing some of their print ads at me. He's like, well, why don't you kind of mess with this and see what you think of it. So I started doing a few of their print ads, and more and more they liked what I was doing, and I ended up actually replacing their graphic designer. So everything I've ever done was self-taught, and I really started liking it.

So they sent me to like one of these little business schools where it's like, learn Photoshop in, 5 days or whatever. So I did the entire Adobe Suite. I did a bunch of different classes, and it just kind of went from there. And it's just, I just kind of kept doing it, and just kind of kept getting better at it. And I just, I don't know, I kind of decided like, this is really cool. And this is something I want to do.

And it's easy to do and, or easy for me. And I just kind of took it and went from there.

Christian Solorzano [11:01]

And for you, as you were going through this learning of software tools, process, etc. Was it— what about it appealed to you? Was it the type of work that you were creating, or was it just the creative process, or what about it sort of—

Cheryl Bever [11:21]

I mean, definitely the creative process. The idea of creating something from absolutely nothing, I think that really kind of got me. And yeah, and that you could just turn it into something and people would kind of react to it. And, the things I was doing was helping the company sell things. And that's another thing, I really like to help people. So in my mind, that's what I was doing. I was creating things that would help somebody, to prosper and all that.

So I think, I think that really kind of, kind of helped propel me.

Christian Solorzano [11:57]

Yeah. And do you remember, do you remember the first thing that you made? That you like perhaps saw in the real world. And that was like, that was, that's my thing. Because I remember when I was in design school, like the dream was to one day have like to design a billboard because it's like one of the biggest things you could design and it's like everyone sees it. And I've never designed a billboard and frankly, I don't really want to anymore.

But at one point that was like, that was the dream to design a billboard. But for you, what work did you want to do? Or like, what type of work were you working towards doing at some point? And just what was it like to actually see your work out and about?

Cheryl Bever [12:44]

Yeah, so the furniture company I worked for, it was B2B. So we sold business to business. So the first thing I actually saw that came back, and I knew that thousands and thousands of people were looking at it, was an ad in a trade magazine, and I actually can't remember what the first one was, but actually, no, I have it here somewhere. I ripped it out to save it.

Yeah, but as far as like an end goal of like where it was, I go project to project and I still do that, it's like things come in, it's like, okay, this is what I got. This is what we're going to take care of. And then the next thing. And that might actually be to my detriment. I don't have like a lofty aspiration or a lofty goal. It's just kind of like we're getting through day by day and this is the way it's gonna work.

And thank God it has for these like 20 years.

Christian Solorzano [13:42]

And then, and then, so then in 2021 you start your business, right?

Cheryl Bever [13:48]

Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [13:49]

And what was, what was that like? Was it terrifying? Terrifying.

Cheryl Bever [13:58]

I mean, so it's something that I've wanted to do for a long time. Who doesn't want to work for themselves, to not have somebody, constantly over your shoulder being like, you need to do this, you need to do this, having to clock in at, 9 and having to clock out at 5, and you get an hour for lunch. It just— that kind of regimen, it— I don't know, some people I think it works, but for me it was kind of stifling for the creative process.

Because, some days you just don't have enough work to fill an 8-hour day. And so you're just kind of sitting there like fumbling and trying to figure it out. And other days you have a lot of things to do, and you're piling through it. And I— so I don't know that having that kind of regimen that you have to stick to really worked for me. And too, so I had— I have my son. In 2009.

And I worked— I lived in the city and I worked in Addison. So the commute was pretty hard, and having to get to work by 8 was, I had to leave really early. I had to get up even earlier. And, I missed, I missed a lot of silly Christmas concerts and, sports games or little presentations that the class put on and things like that. And that, I don't know, as a mom, that really starts to weigh on you a lot.

You start thinking like, Oh my God, I'm never there. I'm not. I'm not a good parent, and I don't know all of that kind of stuff. And so that starts to weigh on you too. And then like, okay, I gotta. I gotta be a mom. I gotta be a wife. I gotta be this employee, and it all starts to get on you. You have to be everything for everyone all the time, except for you, right? And it was really taking its toll.

And over the years, like my husband even started to say he's like. Oh my God, like you're angry all of the time. Like you're miserable. You're just, you're just, you suck right now. I mean, he pretty much said that and it's like, oh my God, okay, you're right. Like this is hard. And, then it just kind of kept on going and trying to make things better. And it just, I don't know. And then COVID happened. We all had to work from home.

And suddenly I was here. I was able to wake up and, quote unquote, send my kid to school, make him go sit at his computer and be in class, and, make sure we went and played outside, and, we took breaks. And all of a sudden you're around your family all the time, and you're like, oh my God, I liked it. I liked being around my family all the time. I know a lot of people, it got to be stressful, but, we started talking.

I was like, you could do this full-time for yourself. You— I, through the years, I worked freelance in addition to my full-time job. So he's like, you have the clients, you know the people. There's things like Creative Circle and all these, job placement things. So it's like, even if it doesn't work out, get another job. Figure it out. We'll figure it out. Don't even worry about it. And I don't know. It was almost like, you have that hallelujah moment where everything's like, oh, like that's it.

Like okay, that's what we're gonna do. And I'm pretty much the next day I wrote my resignation letter. And you know when you write that email and you're like, okay, one, two, three, send. I had it printed out and I had it and I you know I was in my office at work and I was like, okay, here we go. And I held my breath and I walked in. I was like, okay, this is it. This is what we're doing now.

And then there was no turning back. And, here we are 2, 3 years later and still going strong.

Christian Solorzano [17:50]

Yeah, that is so cool. I always, I always really admire people that have the courage to do what you did because it's so difficult and it's so scary. I don't know. For me, it terrifies me.

Cheryl Bever [18:00]

It's terrifying. I'm not having the degree, the quote unquote degree that everybody had. So I always felt very inadequate. It's like, well, how do I charge as a professional? I'm not a professional, even though I've been doing this for 20 years. I have the experience, I know what I'm doing, but still there's that little voice in the back of your head that's like, you can't do this. You can't charge, whatever per hour and tell somebody that you're the expert. You're no expert.

But, yeah, the stupid voice. You just gotta get over it. And it's like all the paths kind of— or all the stones align and make your path, and you just gotta take that step and yeah. And don't look back?

Christian Solorzano [18:39]

Yeah. So what's interesting— so what I— another, something I just really like about you is that you have your— like, I understand that having your own, studio practice, your own business could be a very lonely thing because you're working by yourself all day and it's sort of you and your home, but you've managed to be a part of the community as well, and to be engaged, and to be a participant, and to be someone that contributes and helps put things together.

So on that, on that note, how important is community to you? Because even for myself, starting the Chicago Graphic Design Club came out of a response to me working remotely and just feeling like I just can't focus. I just can't have work be the only thing that I do creatively. So I'm gonna see if there's any other things that I could do. So for you, what is— why is community important to you and what role does it play in what you do?

Cheryl Bever [19:47]

Yeah, so I actually never thought I needed it. I liked working by myself. Like even when I was in the office, I closed my door. Like I didn't want to talk to people. I just wanted to do my thing and go, right? And even working from home, like I mean, it's I my husband works from home too. So it's like there's always people here in the house. So even then, like I'll close my door and be like, just everybody leave me alone, right?

It wasn't until that first book club honestly that I jumped into and thought like, oh, this is really cool. Like I've never had people like peers with a like mind and designers who like been through the same things or similar things or similar but different things that I'm going through. And listening to everybody talk and, oh my God, it was so cool. And then I went to a few more book clubs and a few more of your discussions and things. I'm like, this is neat.

Yeah, you need to have these people around. And then too, that's kind of why I decided, this club is giving me so much help as far as keeping me sane and having people to talk to. I want to give back to it, right? So that's why I decided to join and then to be a part. And oh my God, the Discord community! There's so many days where it's like, oh, I haven't been in there for a while.

I need to like post something silly that's on my mind, or just, I don't know, some— oh my God, I found this cool thing I need to show the guys in Discord. I don't know. It's almost like it's one of my family members now. It's like, oh, there's this cool thing I need to show you. Oh my God, this happened to me today. Who can relate? So just having somebody to vent to and show the cool things that maybe, somebody else wouldn't understand. I don't know.

That's super important. And I've learned so much, and I hope that everybody else there has learned. I don't know, from me, or, anything. Just being able to give back and it's a cool thing to have kind of in your back pocket.

Christian Solorzano [21:51]

And for you, given that you are, you are working, that you have your own business, what are some maybe like rituals or like what are some habits or like what are some things that you do to sort of keep yourself sane throughout the day?

Cheryl Bever [22:06]

So I have this actually really awesome day planner that I really like. I don't know. It's different than other planners in that, it has— of course it has the days where you can fill in what you need to do, but then it also has a moment for, or a space for reflection. So like at the end of the week you can say like, oh, what are the— what are you proud of that you did this week?

And then in another section it says, okay, what can you work on maybe a little bit more next week? So I really like that. So every morning I go in and I fill out my day. Of, I have 5 things that I need to work on, or maybe 4 or 3. I heard once that you should— your to-do list should never be larger than a Post-it, and then you never really feel overwhelmed.

So it's like, okay, so I fill that out every morning, okay, these are the things I absolutely need to do today. And to kind of choose those things, I actually kind of sit for a second and I don't know if it's true with you, but some days I'm really good at writing. Some days I'm really good at just editing photos, and other days I'm really good at creating something. So I kind of see like, okay, which hat am I wearing today?

And it's like, okay, those are the jobs that I want to complete, because I know that that's— I'm gonna be the most productive at that. So that's my main one. And then I always I listen to audiobooks. I rent audiobooks from the library, and if I'm doing a job where I don't— like, if I'm writing, I can't do it. But if I'm not, I'll just— I'll listen to a book and just kind of let whatever I'm working on happen.

Or I'll listen to music if it's— if I'm writing. And I don't know, those things really tend to work for me. I try not to work too long during the day, and maybe like get out in the middle of the day just to kind of step away from my computer because I noticed if I do stare at it too long, like all of a sudden everything starts to get blurry and I just can't anymore. And I've learned to listen to myself.

It's like, okay, you can't work anymore. Like you're done. Because sometimes it does just get to a point where it's like, I have nothing else to give you today. And I think just learning to listen to yourself and trust that you're doing the right thing again.

Christian Solorzano [24:22]

Are there any particular things about our industry that maybe because you've been practicing for a while now, but throughout your— throughout the, let's say, the last 2 decades, how have you seen the evolution of like the design industry like change? And perhaps like, what are some things that you're hopeful about or like optimistic about that you really enjoy, as opposed to some things that maybe you're not so much fond of?

Cheryl Bever [24:51]

So in reference to that comment, a lot of times it's things that I see on social media, and I think a lot of my exposure to design is social media, which is probably a bad thing. But everybody trying to be seen is getting really kind of annoying. It's like, oh, you have to do the reels so that you get seen, and you get seen by more people. And oh, these are the 5 top fonts that I use. And it's like, okay.

And maybe, that's cool to other people that don't Art designers, maybe, but being one, it's kind of like, oh my God, I don't want to see this anymore. Nobody cares what fonts that you use. But so maybe that's just kind of frustrating. It's like everybody trying to be seen and all of that. Things that are exciting.

God, just the way that the tools are changing, like there's some things that people do and it's just my jaw drops, and just as far as like 3D, I cannot wrap my head around to save my life. But the things people do, this is like, wow. And the thing, like I said before, like I'm not a web designer. So seeing things that people can do with web design.

We had to speak, you had a speaker on before, and I can't remember her name, but she was doing the AI or the augmented reality with—

Christian Solorzano [26:16]

Typography. Yeah.

Cheryl Bever [26:18]

I never in a million years would I thought to do something like that. And then just so somebody to get that idea and then to like follow it through and do it, I think that's again the creative process, creating something out of nothing. And, yeah, AI is scary. Yeah, things that— but it's all— they're all tools, and people being able to harness them and do what they want, I think is just— it's mind-boggling.

Because I don't know that I could ever do it. I mean, probably if I stuck my mind to it and really Learned it, but yeah.

Christian Solorzano [26:48]

Well, I want to comment on your, on your, on your comments about the social media and just everyone wanting to be seen. And I think, I mean, for me, I think that there's advantages to being able to just put yourself out in the world and have people find you and all that stuff. But I think at times it does feel, it does, it almost feels like it's just another, it's like another job that you have to maintain because it's so much work.

Cheryl Bever [27:15]

It's so much work and it starts to feel so forced.

Christian Solorzano [27:18]

I mean, I keep all— I keep my personal accounts private because I feel like as soon as I were to— if I were to make them public, all of a sudden now there's like— now I have to worry about like everyone is now seeing my stuff and now I have to worry about how I appear and all this stuff. So I'm like, I'm going to keep it private. Only I know like who's following me and that's that.

So for you, like what role do you Do you see, if you do see a role, just how do you feel like you fit within this huge millions and millions of designers on the internet? I don't know, does that scare you?

Cheryl Bever [28:00]

Yeah, it's totally scary. It's overwhelming because you're thinking, oh my God, I'm like one little peon in this massive— and then we were talking before, there's so many different levels of designers, right? There's those ones like way up here that you're just oh my God, I wish I could be somebody like that. And then, they step on their way down. But I, and you can see if you go through my business feed in the beginning, like I took great care in how it all looked.

I did. I made sure that all 3 images that went across my Instagram feed, they all had the same color background and it was all the same project and it was all this. And all that. And oh my God, it was so hard. And I would post 3 days a week, and it was always Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, sometimes Saturday. And I did it every week, and it got so hard that I started hating it.

I hated doing it, and I just stopped, for a good couple months. And it was like, okay, you do need to put something up there, otherwise people are gonna think that, you don't exist anymore, right?

Christian Solorzano [29:10]

Yeah.

Cheryl Bever [29:11]

Whoever these people are.

Christian Solorzano [29:12]

The robots.

Cheryl Bever [29:15]

Right, the spider crawlers. I have to impress them. And so finally I was like, you know what, just post whatever. And I actually went— you can almost see the transition. I started posting more things about the club because we had so many things going on and that I was a part of. And it's like, oh, this is showing like more of you. Yeah, you do cool, presentations and cool catalogs and whatever that you can offer people. But being an independent business, it's about you.

So I started doing the things I liked to do. And, I still— it's not so personal. I still have my personal account where I post all the silly pictures of my son playing baseball and, all that kind of stuff. And to your point, I leave all that public so that way, if people want to know more about me, they can pop on over there and see more. Whatever is there is there.

And so, yeah, so I actually— and I got off of a schedule of posts like, oh, you have to post 3, 4 times a week. It's like, yeah, when I do something cool or see something cool, I'm gonna pop it on there, and share it. And I've— it's funny, I've actually seen more interaction with my posts kind of posting whenever, as opposed to like the regimen, like we have to do this in certain colors and blah, blah. So I don't know.

So I, I've kind of let go of all of those things. And yeah, I'll just do it on my own time and whatever. And yeah, I don't think I've posted any work for probably a good couple months now just because I've been so busy. And I've told myself that's okay, and it really is okay. And now I don't have that pressure of it anymore.

Christian Solorzano [30:58]

Yeah, I've even seen like things about how if you post a reel, that is higher on the algorithm. Yeah. So some people will post like a photo as a reel just because Instagram will detect it as a reel. And I don't know, they're just, it's overwhelming.

Cheryl Bever [31:19]

And if you post the carousel, and a long caption, like people will stay on that post longer and Instagram will see like, oh, it's interesting. People wanna see it. There's so many tricks, like that's a job in and of itself, and it's just, I'm over it.

Christian Solorzano [31:33]

But I mean, the ins— I mean, it's funny that I'm mentioning all this stuff because through Instagram, that's how, that's how I've connected with so many people.

Cheryl Bever [31:42]

Right. This thing that we hate.

Christian Solorzano [31:44]

So many friends. So I don't want to come across as like it's the bad— it's a bad thing because I do, I do care. I think it's a cool tool and the club, I mean, we are, we rely on it for so many things. So no, totally.

Cheryl Bever [31:58]

It has its good points and its bad points.

Christian Solorzano [32:02]

Yeah. So now that you're, so now that you're actually, you're part of the club and you're helping like run our organization, what do you want to see for the club? What would you like to see us do? Like you've been involved, you were involved in our AI events that we did in June. In July. In July. Wow. In July.

Cheryl Bever [32:25]

And it wasn't that long ago.

Christian Solorzano [32:27]

So you were a part of that. We're working on our publication together and just, we have a lot of, a lot of things going on. But like for you, what's like your vision or what do you want to see the organization do?

Cheryl Bever [32:43]

Definitely a lot of what we're already doing, you know you mentioned the AI event. I mean, that was awesome. So doing more things like that, I think a lot of people really responded to it and enjoyed it.

So things like that, just to get kind of people out and talking with each other and, kind of going up against these— I'll call it an issue, but, the way the industry is changing and everybody getting a chance to, kind of hash it out with their ideas, to be seen, to be heard. That's— I think that's such a big thing for designers because so often we work in the background, right? It's not our name on things.

We're just kind of Making things happen, and for the man behind the curtain. So just having that chance to be seen and be heard. Our social events are super cool, just a chance for everybody to kind of hang out. And, now that we can do them more in person now, I think that that's really cool. So I don't know, maybe just kind of more stuff like that.

Christian Solorzano [33:45]

And yeah, and for the— so we had our Confronting Design series kick off. Last month, and you came up with the name Confronting Design. Everyone listening that thinks that it's a really cool name, that's Cheryl's there. But on the topic of confronting, what do you think as a design community or as designers, what kind of things should we be confronting? We confronted artificial intelligence. Because that's a whole big topic that could be scary, could be exciting, could be all sorts of things.

But yeah, just as a business owner, as someone that's been doing this for a while, what do you think we should be confronting more of?

Cheryl Bever [34:36]

I don't really know. I don't know that I have an answer for that. Yeah, I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [34:41]

I'm still thinking about things that we could confront, but I think for the organization, one of the reasons, at the core of what we do, a lot of it is not only— it's— I think about our organization as having some sort of like attitude that is willing to put designers, to have them have a seat at the table to talk about conversations that perhaps they don't always get the opportunity to do so.

Let's say at work, because I mean, even for some of our book discussions, and, there's like some of the books that we tend to read are like very dense, very thought-provoking, and they're always in the realm of challenging business as usual and like finding new ways of thinking and just new methodologies and all that.

So with that in mind, yeah, I'm just very interested in like what kind of, what kind of things we'll be confronting the next, in the next few, in the next year, in the next few months.

Cheryl Bever [35:41]

Yeah, no, definitely. You're right.

Christian Solorzano [35:42]

And even the, just the idea of hearing people's experiences, hearing stories from other folks that carve their own path.

Cheryl Bever [35:51]

Right. And even like the ones that work and the ones that don't work. I think actually a lot of times we don't hear about, I don't wanna say the things that fail, but the things that didn't go as planned or didn't work out? And hearing that that's okay. Like you survived from it. And you just kind of pivot and try something new. And I think there's something to be learned from something not working out, right?

Because I think other people you've interviewed before, they have done things that maybe didn't work out, but you learn from that and you take that on to the next thing. And, maybe that doesn't work out, but that's okay. You take that and you do the next thing, as long as you don't give up and just kind of keep kind of pushing along. I think there's something from that, like hearing that, for lack of a better word, failure is okay. It's okay.

It just kind of opens the door for something else. Maybe that wasn't the right place in time. The stars weren't aligned, at that moment. Like it just, it didn't work this time, but maybe it'll work next time. And now you know something, you like, you have a new tool in your toolkit that you can use because you learned what didn't work?

Christian Solorzano [36:59]

Yeah. And for you, like having your business, what are some, so for you, like what were, what have been some of the maybe challenges or lessons from the last, 3 years almost of having your own business?

Cheryl Bever [37:13]

I mean, I don't know. I think, I think, I don't know. It's not really a failure, but it's a challenge of like believing in myself that, what I, of what I can do and what I'm worth. I have a hard time. I always just want to help people, it's like, oh, you need this? Sure, I'll do it. And I'll just, I'll just do it. Don't worry, don't worry about it.

And I don't charge people for things sometimes because, oh, it's just so easy, and I can just do it, and I know it'll be good for you. So always keeping track of my hours and doing things like that. That's definitely something that I don't do very well, that I need to. And not always saying yes, it's okay for you to pass on something or to say, you know what, I'm not good at that.

There's these other people that are, that are much better, and you'll get a bigger bang for your buck and something that you're very proud of and happy with from somebody else for that. And that's just kind of okay.

Christian Solorzano [38:18]

So what's, so what's next for your business? You mentioned that you sort of take every day every day at a time. But is there like a vision, let's say 5 years from now?

Cheryl Bever [38:34]

The moment that you called and said that we were going to do a publication, something lit up inside of me and I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. I kind of— and I was talking to my husband after and I was like, oh my God, guess what we're going to do? I go, I think this is what I want to do.

I think I want to be a part of like magazines and figuring out like what's going to be in them and like just going through that whole process. How cool is that? Or books or— I do as part of my day-to-day, I do a lot of print publications as far as like catalog product catalogs. And I work with a lot of B2B companies. So I do catalogs and postcards and things like that, like print materials. I love print.

I when COVID hit and everything really went digital, I was very sad and I was like, oh my God, what am I going to do? This— I need printed things in my hand. That tactile thing is really cool. It might come from my fashion background, but I need— I love papers and textures and all of that. So when you were like, oh my God, we're gonna do a magazine, I'm like, yes, this is, this is way cool.

So I'm I think, this might be some time to come after we've done this one and maybe a few and work through the trial and error of it, maybe going after more of, print publications and seeing if there's anything I can offer to them and work with. I think that would be cool.

Christian Solorzano [40:12]

It seems kind of silly, but I think because everything is going in the direction of digital, things like print are gonna be even more of like a, this like luxury item where we're gonna, people, we're just gonna yearn for it more because like in the same way that like vinyl or like cassettes are a thing now, I think the print industry, I mean, will hopefully just explode and so much greatness will come from it.

Cheryl Bever [40:46]

So. Yeah, definitely.

Christian Solorzano [40:48]

So that, so the, so the publication that, it's funny because like the club was a response to COVID and now like this publication feels like it's a response to like AI. Who knows what other things we'll have to respond to in the future and what those responses will lead to.

I was talking with a friend this weekend yesterday and we were saying how like we were talking about how like the creative person will often feel like a creative block from time to time where there's just like no, like you just nothing comes out, like you have nothing to say. And I was saying like, well, one of the things that sometimes works for me is that I'll just create problems or like I'll find a problem that exists. And then try to solve for it.

And that problem might be something like, there's a problem that there's no Chicago-based print publication. That's the problem. Let's solve it. There's a problem that there's no community. Let's create, let's solve that problem. So I think as designers, sometimes our job is to just be like looking for problems. And if no one is solving them, it's like, great. Like that, that's an opportunity for us.

Cheryl Bever [42:06]

So, and even if they are solving them, it's like, how can we do it different? What can we offer?

Christian Solorzano [42:13]

Yeah. So yeah, who knows what problems will— hopefully there's some good problems coming up. Right.

Cheryl Bever [42:22]

But I'm very excited about it. Just, I mean, working with you all on it is going to be way fun. And then actually, God, I'm like dreaming of when it comes, those boxes and we get to open them and see like For someone that is thinking about starting a business, or maybe already has a business, what advice would you have for them? Probably best for anyone starting out, just trust yourself and kind of always keep reaching. Believe in yourself, and you can do this.

And even if it doesn't work out, that's okay. There'll be something new to try and something else to do and, come back to it and just kind of follow the path put in front of you and see where it's gonna take you.

Christian Solorzano [43:12]

And lately, what are you listening to? What's keeping you inspired? What are— I know you're an avid reader.

Cheryl Bever [43:20]

So I read, I read a lot of fantasy sci-fi. I have a friend that turned me on to James Butcher, who does fantasy sci-fi. He's a wizard in Chicago, and it's like a detective series, and like there's just magic and monsters, and it's cool because it's set in the city, so it can connect with it. And it's like, it's so cool, like it's so fun. It's such a great way for me to like unwind and do that.

And then there's another author, Kevin Hearne, who's a lot like James Butcher and do just magic and druids. And I don't know, it's just all way cool. So like that, I don't know, that disconnects me from the real world? And I mean, of course I listen to the club's podcast. I—

Christian Solorzano [44:14]

Are you gonna listen to yourself, your own episode?

Cheryl Bever [44:17]

No, I'm totally not going to. I hate the sound of my voice, so I'm sorry everyone. I've been listening to Debbie Millman's podcast, which is always— I love. And I listen to Wait Wait… Don't Tell Me by NPR. That's always fun. And I've been listening to the Angry Designer podcast. These guys in Canada.

They just kind of really come at like all topics of design and kind of not poke fun at it, but kind of they have some fun with it. So they're fun to kind of listen to in the background. I do a lot of instrumental music just to kind of disconnect and that. The Cure is probably my top band of all time. But yeah, that's what I got going.

Christian Solorzano [45:15]

Nice. So if anyone wants to like reach out or learn more about you, what's the best way to find you?

Cheryl Bever [45:25]

So my business website is cmbimgandesign.com. That has all of my social handles and my email address. I get everything to my phone, so I'm pretty easy to reach any of those ways.

Christian Solorzano [45:41]

Yeah. And is there any new projects or anything exciting that we could look forward to? To seeing anything you want to promote or tease us with?

Cheryl Bever [45:51]

For myself? No. All the exciting stuff is happening through the club. So follow the Graphic Design Club on social media. Yes.

Christian Solorzano [46:00]

Listen to Cheryl.

Cheryl Bever [46:02]

Well, yeah, this was, this was a fun, really fun conversation.

Christian Solorzano [46:09]

I'm glad that I got to know you a little bit more. And yeah, I just want to mention on this, on the show that just thank you so much for all that you've— that you do, all that you've been doing, all the awesome ideas that you bring to the table. For people listening, Cheryl plays a big role. So—

Cheryl Bever [46:30]

Thanks, Christian.

Christian Solorzano [46:33]

But with that said, again, thank you so much. And yeah, we'll keep in touch. I'm sure we'll be talking later today.

Cheryl Bever [46:38]

Yeah, awesome. I'm looking forward to it.

Christian Solorzano [46:43]

Man, what a great conversation that was. As always, thank you so much for sticking around until the end. We really appreciate it. And as always, if you want to learn more about Underscore or the Chicago Graphic Design Club, please visit our website at www.chicagographicdesign.club or follow us on Instagram. Thank you, and we'll talk soon.

Cheryl Bever [47:11]

Thank you.