Christian Solorzano [00:12]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and today I am once again joined by my co-host, Carson Koppin.

Carson Koppin [00:24]

Hey Christian, super happy to be here. Together, we're going to speak with Chicago-based multidisciplinary artist, designer, and creative director Chuck Anderson. His work is acclaimed for its use of surreal color and light, innovative juxtapositions of traditional and digital mediums, and constant experimentation. When he was 18 years old, with no formal training, and for more than 2 decades, he has worked with brands and art collectors worldwide. Including but not limited to Adidas, Apple, the Chicago Bulls, Sox, and Cubs, and Microsoft.

In 2005, Chuck co-founded and collaborated with Benjamin Edgar and Virgil Abloh on the influential early internet culture blog the Brilliance.

Christian Solorzano [01:07]

In this conversation, Chuck shares with us his introduction to the internet and how that opened him up to the world of design, software, and creative cultures beyond the Midwest. He also speaks about social media. The importance of routine, physical health, and how that plays a role in his creative process, and much more.

Carson Koppin [01:26]

As always, thank you so much for listening, and we hope you enjoy this conversation.

Christian Solorzano [01:29]

Welcome, Chuck. Thank you so much for joining us on our show today. We wanted to start the conversation with like a very simple question that I hope it's simple, but it's how do you start your days and how do you end your days?

Chuck Anderson [01:49]

Well, my days start in the last four months. I would say my life's been quite different. I don't know why that is. Maybe it was just the end of a big client project, and then I kind of took a sabbatical in December, and I took December to really just get my head on straight, get my health right, and develop a real good workout habit that I'd been. Pretty decent with, but on and off.

So I'm going on like a solid 4 months of getting up usually around 5:30, 5:45, work out, and then I get my son up at 6:45 because my wife leaves with him to take him to daycare and get to work. They leave at like 7:15. So I find that, a, I sit a lot, as probably most people listening do.

And I have a lot of back issues. And so, and I know how much better I feel throughout my day if I, if I work out. So I really developed a pretty regimented habit. And for the last, yeah, I'd say 4 or 5 months, I've been really good about starting my day with working out, like usually at least 5 days a week. And I've been pretty good about it. I've been, I've been like, it's probably the best habit I've developed in a very long time.

That's usually how I start my day. And then it's like, yeah, it's kid time, because then my daughter gets up, and then I take her to school at 8:45, and then my day, work-wise for me actually starts. So maybe that's what you wanted to know. But yeah, it's— I mean, then it's like I usually come over to the studio and get going. And my day, I mean, yeah, the bookends are quite domestic here.

So if you want to get more granular on the work side, we can do that too.

Christian Solorzano [03:41]

Yeah, please do. Yeah.

Chuck Anderson [03:42]

The 9 to 5 bookends and then like the life bookends, you know what I mean? But the working out thing is important. And I've always known that and I've always worked out in some capacity, but never consistently enough. And I find the impact on my creativity and output is vast. It's significant, very significant. Yeah. So I'd be remiss to not Mention that.

But yeah, my days usually end either putting my kids to bed or watching like junk TV, and then looking at my phone until I fall asleep, which is a bad habit. So work-wise though, it's all over the place. I don't have— I'm pretty inconsistent. I don't have like a hard routine with work because there's— if all of a sudden a client project pops, and I mean, that can dictate my schedule. For 2 weeks.

But when I'm not sort of on a timeline like that, it usually just depends. Like today I was up and I had to get to Blick at 10 AM, get a bunch of supplies that I have sitting here for a project I'm building, and then met with a friend of mine for lunch and see his studio, and then it's all over the place. So it just kind of depends. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [04:59]

Yeah, I like, I like that you mention the working out in the morning, because I do feel like the— it's so easy to get injured just by sitting all day. It's like you're not moving, but then you get up and you're like, why does my— why does everything hurt? You're like, I've been doing nothing all day, but yet somehow injuries happen.

Chuck Anderson [05:20]

So, yep. Yeah, I mean, and I've been to my fair share of physical therapy. I broke a I broke a vertebrae when I was like 12 years old in track. And it changed. It really changed my life. I mean, it made simply like— I remember going to like Warped Tour when I was like 14, and like standing there and being like, oh my God, this is miserable. This shouldn't be how it is for a young kid. And but yet there I was.

So, I'm pushing 40 and I just know that I've in the scheme of things, still young. I got little kids, and it's important that I take care of my body as best I can. And it fails me for sure sometimes. There's days where I like deal with all sorts of, stuff, whether it's back or, just like usually back. It's almost always that. And I'm not making it better by like sitting a lot, but I just feel like we gotta counterbalance that with certain things.

And I find myself in bad moods if it's really bothering me and stuff. And so I just, all this stuff at the end of the day kind of ladders up to what we're probably ultimately going to be talking about, which is work and art and design. And I think I can, I can draw a pretty direct line from how I'm feeling physically and therefore mentally to all that stuff.

Christian Solorzano [06:40]

The internet played a big role in just shaping your outlook on creativity, design. And that's just something that you, I feel like I find it easy to identify with because a lot of us, the internet for us was kind of that catalyst that enabled us to design software, graphic design, typography, all these things. And I'm always very curious about people that experience that infancy of the web.

So back then, I feel like the content that we would, that we would see felt a little bit more curated, whereas today there's just like this endless feed of content. And for you, given that you're constantly producing work, always, doing new projects. How do you filter through all that noise? And how do you find— just how do you balance not getting— and maybe you do get overwhelmed, but just that sheer amount of just content and media that is just thrown our way.

Chuck Anderson [07:40]

Just for my context, how old are you guys?

Christian Solorzano [07:43]

I'm 32.

Chuck Anderson [07:45]

Okay.

Carson Koppin [07:46]

And I'm 26.

Chuck Anderson [07:48]

Okay, so the 32 isn't like as big of a jump. I'm 30, I'm about to be 39 in May. 26 is big, just internet years, if we're going like dog years-wise, like when it was, when it intersected our lives. I think I am at such an interesting age. I was born in 1985.

I was introduced to the internet on an AOL disk on my dad's laptop that had the little knob in the middle of the keyboard, Little Brother laptop, and, like very primitive, but very revolutionary, as it kind of is for anybody's like first time who is of an age where it wasn't there and then it was, versus like my kids are just growing up where it's just that it's just part of life. There is nothing kind of eye-opening about it.

So I feel like, I think this answer has a lot to do with like when it kind of, yeah, when it intersected life for me. So I feel like I've kind of seen a lot of waves of the internet, whether it was like early AOL and like early, and I always like to dig deep because it was, AOL.

And then I started teaching myself a software at the time called Visual Basic, and I was like programming these like weird like hacker apps to like kick people off like AOL and just getting really into that. And then, we get introduced to blogs and that kind of was its own thing. So I kind of feel like I've just been along for the ride as opposed to like thinking back all the way to 2001, let's call it. And then now it's not like it just happened.

It's just been very gradual. And then obviously, the chart probably goes like this all of a sudden in the last few years. But so I guess all that said, like I feel like I've just kind of seen it all happen and been kind of a part of it. And I just always like I said, I just I kind of I feel like very along for the ride with it.

To just to discern quality on the internet is the real challenge for anybody as it is in real life. I think I think we're there's just a constant onslaught of. Stuff all the time. And whether it's Instagram or, Twitter or more on the design, visual sort of indexing of things like on Arena or like whatever, like you like to use.

I think, Twitter is probably the most like absurd of all of them because it feels the one that is least controlled by me. 'Cause you default so much to this like For you tab and then it's just like God knows what, usually pretty funny, but just like out of just really wild. And then Instagram, still feels like pretty true to what I want it to feel like.

But yeah, I mean, it is, it is very different and I think it's important to, every now and then go through and like unfollow things that aren't giving you stuff that's worthwhile. But the funny thing for me is like my stuff is also, mixed up.

I follow so much basketball stuff, for example, in the same feed that I get design news, in the same feed that I'm getting like fantasy sports stuff, in the same feed that I'm getting like, whatever, like AI account news I'm following, whatever.

And it's all just kind of jumbled and it just sort of feeds into this conditioned ADHD mindset that I think we've all kind of adopted because like, why would I be like watching a highlight reel of the best dunks of the week and then suddenly be like confronted with like, some rebrand, post about some rebrand that someone did and then some meme right away. So I don't know, man. I think like, I'm not sure there's a whole lot we can even do about this.

At this point, it feels somewhat out of control, to an extent. But yeah, I mean, it's, it is very different. I don't know if that answered the question.

Christian Solorzano [12:01]

Yeah, it does. Because I was, I was referencing one of your older interviews and you were speaking about Tumblr and you framed that as the perfect embodiment of our attention deficit generation. And I, and to me that just spoke.

Chuck Anderson [12:19]

I wonder when that interview was, if it said the year on there. I mean, it's true because that was like Tumblr.

Christian Solorzano [12:25]

2013. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Chuck Anderson [12:27]

Yeah. I mean, and 2013 is probably right around, I don't know when Instagram first came out. I know Twitter, I was on Twitter, I think in 2008. So we're talking like still pretty early days of the idea of the endless scroll and Tumblr was really one of the first to kind of like really give us that. So I don't know. I mean, at the same time, I don't really love to like harp on this stuff and bemoan it.

I mean, and, I mean, it's kind of on everybody to just sort of like monitor their like intake on the internet and like what you absorb and like the quality control. It's on you to kind of like step out and look away, off the screen.

Carson Koppin [13:19]

Right. It's so many things happening all the time. And like you said, like just trying to keep updated with so many different feeds and everything kind of starting to feed into each other is overwhelming in so many ways. And kind of backing up a little bit to speaking on what you'd said, like kind of seeing in some of those different waves.

I'm curious to know, what's the history or like the couple years leading up to like, the Brilliance founding in 2005 and then kind of stepping into more of that curation role, right? You're still creating there, but then you're also starting to become an avenue for others and kind of highlighting those things. And I'm curious to know more about— The history of that and kind of how that started to be?

Chuck Anderson [14:09]

Yeah, I mean, the Brilliance is, it's amazing how that project has continued to live on in conversation and in very sort of niche pockets of culture, I would say, like internet, the sort of like the, internet culture, Hypebeast, because Hypebeast came out a little bit after we started the Brilliance, and it was just all that same time where everyone was just starting to sort of galvanize interests on the internet and put them in one spot and then find their lane.

And we were editorializing heavy in a way that a lot of those other ones weren't, where they were more product-focused or event-focused and starting like Hypebeast really I mean, it's not surprising to me that Kevin took Hypebeast into what it is now and like built it into this mega business, where the Brilliance was always like a labor of love. I mean, would I have loved to become a millionaire off that? Yeah, but we never, we never found like the lane for it.

It was very like, it was very zine-like. It was very like, I always saw it as this like kind of like yeah, it was this like all ages zine. Like this all— it was like this just sort of like very just for everybody. Like we're not gonna— we didn't ever do ads. We didn't do— and I don't think it was because we were like resistant.

It just, it just stayed very true to this the original sort of purpose of it, which for Ben and I was to take the conversations that he and I were having already over email and then just basically make them public. That was, that was it. I mean, it was a sort of arrogant and sort of self-serving as that. And he and I used to email the way that I think most people, most friends nowadays text. So I'm going back, let's say, 2000, late 2003.

I had just graduated high school. Ben was kind of this, figure in my life that didn't go to college, and I had decided not to go to college. At least for a year, and I never did go back, but he was someone who I saw starting to take steps towards being okay without it. And so I took that as sort of a, maybe I could do the same thing.

And so he and I bonded over that first and foremost, and then we just started both discovering all sorts of pockets of culture on the internet and talking about them all the time. And yeah, one day I literally proposed over an email to him that we should start a blog. And then I'm pretty sure he said, what if we should call it the Brilliance? I said, let's do it. I just bought the domain.

And within a few days, he had like a CMS that he had built, and the site was basically up and running. We had this very, it was always meant to be very like Drudge Report-esque and like a newspaper and like the font just was what it was and plain and simple. And we never changed it. And I love that about it. So it's like, it's a time capsule. It's still live. I still pay my hosting bill every month.

I could still go and post on it if I wanted to. I thought about it. Obviously, something changed when Virgil passed. I think like the essence of the brilliance like left in a sense, or the ability to have it be the same ever again.

But, it was yeah, it was a super important project and one that I'm really grateful for because it the connections and the relationships that it formed for both Ben and myself, whether it was with Virgil or other people, was really important and really lasting, I think, in a way that I never could have expected.

So, and yeah, I think it's also just it's cool to have such proof that like early on, I personally and Ben, like we believed in the internet as a conduit to speak to people in an interesting way, or to share things that we were finding. And we didn't ever consider ourselves, and would never have used the word curator.

But I mean, I guess now, in the context of that, you could have called us that for what we were doing at the time, where there weren't many other sites seeing this stuff from especially like the Midwest.

We were seeing things happen in New York and Tokyo and LA and London, but at a distance, and seeing things happen on blogs and then almost reporting back from the comfort of our apartments, in the Midwest or whatever was kind of sort of funny, actually kind of endeared us to some of the people too. They would take our requests for interviews because they were kind of like, who the hell are you guys?

So yeah, but yeah, it was a cool, it was a very pure project, I would say. I'd say the Brilliance is a very well-intentioned and very pure creative endeavor that never strayed from Absolutely.

Carson Koppin [19:10]

I mean, so many amazing points to grab from there, right? Being the time capsule. I mean, going back and reading what is, what is somebody thinking about in 2005? What's cool in 2005 rather than Googling it, but like literally getting, even from the particular opinion of y'all is just really cool to see that. I mean, I think that's a really cool thing.

Chuck Anderson [19:33]

And really quick too, I should just say it. I don't know. I know you guys interviewed Ben. I don't know if he talked much about this or, but we pointed this out too. But one of the coolest things that we ever heard from people was that they would print out a couple pages worth of our posts to read on the train.

There's a friend of mine who works at Nike now actually told me that he used to print out like on a Monday morning, he'd go and if he hadn't caught up on like the last several posts we had done and he would print out like 2, 3 pages. And he'd bring them on the train, and his train ride was just reading the posts because this is before iPhones. So he would just print them out, and that was his like reading material.

And I just thought that was so sick. That's like, that's amazing. Like that we did anything worth doing because it was always funny, and they were kind of like stupid, but just like fun and easy short blips. But the idea of someone printing them out is so cool to me. Something very romantic about that in a way. That I always thought was really cool, and I think that was like, the best example of like, us achieving our goal.

Carson Koppin [20:35]

Right. Physical— like, Substack could never, you know what I mean? On our way to doing this kind of thing. And it feels very modern in the terms of like, small, wanting to curate from those things and seeing that. With these touchpoints and ups and downs of technology and being at the right place and the right time.

And I think, even in your bio talking about being willing to go to different mediums or try different areas and things like, have you ever felt overwhelmed by the possibilities of all these new technologies? It seems like you've always embraced these things head on.

Chuck Anderson [21:16]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I find like here, the funny thing about me is like, I'm not like, I know what I'm good at and I'm pretty good at like sticking to what I'm good at, although I'm really also good at finding backdoors to trying stuff that I wanna try without having to really learn the whole thing. So what I mean by that is, I've, I have 2 specific, well, 3 specific examples right now. So I've been basically like, Photoshop is my like real— that's an Illustrator.

Those are my 2 programs. That's pretty much all I use. I never learned 3D. I got very over— I've tried. I got very overwhelmed trying. I'm sure I could have. I'm sure I have the capacity to do it. I know I'm not stupid, but I never really took the time to sit down and like really learn, embarrassingly enough, but it is what it is.

I'm not good or particularly proficient in InDesign either, so I've always hired other people to help me when I really need like more extensive like help with layout stuff. I just I'm more of an artist, I think at the end of the day, and there are certain things that I just like didn't learn for whatever reason, whether it was college or whatever. Like web design. I could care less about web design. Like I appreciate a good website, but like I'm not trying to be web designer.

I have no interest in it. So I'm fine to build my site on Cargo, keep it super simple. I'm not trying to get— Anyways, the reason I say all that stuff is that doesn't mean I'm not interested in the results that those people who do that stuff get. For example, 3D. Photoshop introduced some 3D tools years ago. They're already discontinued/being sunset, and they work some of the time.

In 2019, I had been digging really hard in Photoshop, in Photoshop's 3D tools, and ended up developing a whole project and body of work called Crash Report. And it was basically just using Photoshop's 3D tools and finding a way to break the program and use the software in like completely weird ways and use that tool in ways that it was definitely not intended to be used, but it scratched that itch in a very major way for me.

And I felt that I was getting the results without having to go through the steps of like learning all that it— and like at the end of the day, like I don't, I don't know, I don't care. Like I don't feel like I need to know how to like model something.

I was just happy to drop in a photo and start clicking around in Photoshop and find some ways to make something interesting and then build kind of a body of work and like a little sort of, I don't know, sub-brand around that. And I had so much fun. I made a whole— I made a book. I've got a copy around here somewhere. I did a talk at NOTRA here in Chicago presenting all the work. I had big, really cool, prints and shirts.

And then the prints that I did led to a really amazing collaboration I did with Jordan Brand. So at the end of the day, I had to ask myself, what was the goal here? To learn 3D or to, scratch a creative itch, no matter how I need to, get there?

So I try not to get overwhelmed by tech and the options in front of me so much as find ways to, have fun with them in a way that's comfortable, but still, or that I'm familiar with, but makes me just uncomfortable enough. But also, I'm very impatient, so I'm not, same with like generative art. I did a project called Infinite Pressure. It was a huge— I did a body of work. It was 99 NFTs, all one-of-ones. I collaborated with this platform called Chainsaw.

We built this whole custom backend, frontend to auction them all off. I made this huge book I have sitting over here. It was like this big giant oversized book that opened up to like 16. It was huge. It was like this ridiculous book that doesn't fit on any bookshelf.

And collaborated with like a whole bunch of my favorite artists on that project, like sold the project out, and the sort of ethos, like the sort of like thinking behind it was generative art without knowing how to code.

And so the— which I don't know how to code, but I developed all these different processes in Illustrator that mimicked I suppose aesthetically the outputs of someone who would know how to code, and also the process was like 50% me, 50% like, we'll see what Illustrator feels like doing here. And so yeah, I've just— I'm pretty adaptable. I get overwhelmed more at the amount of ideas I have.

I think I get overwhelmed by the options before me and knowing when it's time to stop tinkering and to just like put a kind of like a cap on like making the work and then start to do something with it. That's kind of my Achilles heel.

So yeah, I don't know, maybe like a long answer, but I find that such like a fascinating topic, and I've always found ways to sort of, satisfy the urge to try like different mediums to achieve a particular result without necessarily knowing how to do something like the right or the real way. Much like how I own an airbrush, and I'm sure like someone who knows how to like do proper airbrushing on like motorcycles would cringe, but I'm like, I'm not trying to be you.

I'm trying to just use this as another tool, much like any of the other stuff I've ever done. So to me, it's just all about like, this idea of really leaning into being self-taught and knowing that at the end of the day, there's no rules to any of this stuff.

Christian Solorzano [27:21]

So one of the, one of the things that I feel like a lot of, a lot of designers, especially maybe younger designers struggle with is communicating the value of what it is that they're, that they're creating. And I was, and I, and I, and I was reading something about how you once did a website. It was for like a local pizza shop.

Chuck Anderson [27:39]

Yeah, Aurelio's. Yeah. And it was in Richton Park, Illinois. Yeah. Shout out.

Christian Solorzano [27:44]

And you charge $500 and then the person got back to you and said like the, someone else was quoting them $5,000.

And I imagine that you probably, as you were, as you were, growing and evolving as a creative, at what point, how do you, how do you get comfortable or how do you assess the value of what it is that you're creating? And any advice for anyone that maybe struggles with how to, how to do that? Because I remember being in situations like that where I would undersell my work by a lot, a lot of money. Yeah.

Chuck Anderson [28:24]

I mean, for reference, I was still in high school, so I was still living with my parents and I had started, so I'm like 18, 17, 18. Started tinkering with like web design stuff, like fully hand-coded HTML, like new Notepad file and like just started typing. And then I'd have a browser window and I'd save this and then I just start, I mean, I could still do it probably.

I could still probably type out a decent little like bracket HTML, where to, like just do, I could still probably get that muscle memory back. But I, yeah, I mean, that was a project that I did. It was the first time I think anybody ever paid me for anything. $500 is a lot of money for a kid working at a restaurant at the time, or I might've been working at a bookstore.

And at the end of it, yeah, he was like, he just, I was like, why did you tell me that? Honestly, that was the worst part. I was like, that's fine that like you basically kept it from me that you could have paid more, but why the hell did you just tell me this? Yeah. That's— it was a good lesson to learn early on because it was kind of like a nice comp to the fact that like agencies, especially in big brands, always have money.

They just would prefer to spend as little of it as possible on art wherever possible. It's very different for me at this point in my career, like 20 years. So this is 2024 is 20 years. So to go back to 2004 compared to now, I feel like, there's something about just longevity and like being around a while that maybe commands, I don't wanna say a higher price, but like a respect level of like, you kind of, I'm a pretty known quantity at this point.

There's not really many surprises, I guess I would say. If you're gonna hire me, you can look, I've got a long history. I mean, it's, the creative will be whatever, like it might be new or surprising or different. But I mean, I feel like I've done a— I've worked really hard to build a good reputation. And so that's there.

But I will say the guessing game between myself and clients and the sort of like weird dance, that we do with people who are gonna maybe pay us is not that different. And it's still weird and it's still uncomfortable and it's it still can be awkward and it's still like the sort of, what's your budget? What's your fee? Back and forth. You hope that they say a higher number than you ever would've said.

I mean, so, or you hope that you go in with a really high number that feels like a little crazy and they just either, it's weird because if they say okay, right away, you feel like you left money on the table.

But at the same time, you should really go and ask for what you need and what you want, and then maybe add a little bit. And if you get it, then just be happy. And you can never really know. I've never— I don't know if this is interesting to— I mean, I guess it depends what you do, but I've never charged hourly ever. I've tried to avoid it at every turn because I am very efficient.

I'm especially now, I can be very quick and work really well, really quick, and I feel like people should pay more for that. And not less because I got their job done fast for them. If you need it tomorrow and it's only gonna take me 4 hours and it's done well, you should pay me double, not 4 hours worth. You should pay me triple because I got it done quickly and you didn't plan well enough to have given yourself enough time for your project.

So, yeah, that's kind of like how I see it. It's not my fault that you gave me so little time? And then if it was done well, then you basically like, Someone went above and beyond for you. So I see it. I see that in one way. But yeah, I mean, it's, valuing your work. I mean, it's weird because I've had some really huge clients come with really disappointing budgets, and if they say something, I'm very comfortable now going back and asking for more.

I feel like unless you do something egregious and like they hang up essentially, like you don't want that. But, if someone comes in and they say $5,000 for something, and in your head, and you say like, what was the budget? And then they tell you $5,000 and you were thinking this feels more like $10,000. Like the odds that they're gonna like double the budget is low.

But if you think it's reasonable that you could get $7,500 and you say $10,000 and you're okay with that, and they come back and you meet in the middle, like that happens. I've also had smaller clients come with much bigger budgets than I would have expected, and then that feels more like, cool, let's go, I'm good. But yeah, there's no easy answer for this, honestly. But I do work on a per-project basis.

Everything is like, I just kind of assess the project and, figure like, I'll do what it takes to get it done within, and then usually like try and build in a certain number of rounds of revisions and then be mindful of where we're at in the process and so yeah, it's— but man, I mean, that's like not an easy topic for, I think, any like working artist and designer when it comes to clients.

When it comes to like my own work and like selling things, I mean, that's kind of— I have a pretty good idea at this point, whether it's like a book, a print, like original, an NFT, like whatever the case may be. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on that now. And as long as I at least break even, then I'm usually pretty happy there.

But yeah, it's such an interesting topic and you'll get a different answer like for every person you talk to, I think probably about this subject. But it is crazy because like when I think back to like projects I did almost 20 years ago and to a project now, the emails exchanges are really not that different. They're still like the kind of like little song and dance that we do around figuring out like what number we're gonna land on. And it's not comfortable for sure.

And I don't— I also think like artists aren't necessarily the types to be good at this. I've gotten pretty good at it. I also have a manager now who I work with depending on the project, and it's nice to have a buffer and sort of present as a team. As opposed to just one individual. So if it's like you up against like Nike, it's gonna feel very hard to command.

I don't know, I think most artists who are not like big name artists are gonna have a hard time going in and proposing $30,000 for almost any project. I mean, honestly, it's just, it's, but there's projects where that's what they should be paid. When you have a team or someone else working with you, I think that helps. It puts a little bit of a buffer.

It makes you feel like a part of a team, makes you feel as if you're not alone in the endeavor, in the process of negotiating. And again, I think the word buffer keeps coming to mind because it puts something between you and the client and lets someone else kind of communicate on your behalf who's not going to be emotional about it.

I think that's where, artists falter a little bit. We get a little worried maybe, or especially a younger artist, get a little nervous. Oh, what if I say too high of a number and I lose their interest? Or what if I don't say enough? And, I mean, we can only control so much of that unless you do charge hourly and then, and you book and you watch your hours and you're very, I mean, then that's just a different line of work almost at that point.

But yeah. Yeah.

Carson Koppin [35:56]

I'd like to, about like playing in a team, and I feel you describe yourself as a multidisciplinary creative. And you've done so many things, even just going, through your portfolio and just like getting an understanding of the work, right? From photography to Notra to the Windows 7 desktop background, right? Like just being so prolific with so many different things. How do you find yourself slotting into those different roles now?

Do you, do you prefer like, right, I want to do all the prints and I want to do all these things, right? And how has that process changed? From, in the past, right, slotting between different roles to where you are now and being able to handle more things or do more things or having more options available. I'm curious to know because I feel like people are juggling a lot of hats now. There's— it feels like creatives are being asked more now than ever. Do more things.

Be the this, be the that.

Chuck Anderson [36:57]

Yeah. I mean, I think, I mean, first off, like I started and set up a certain precedent in a way with the name that I work under, with No Pattern. It kind of sets an expectation to the world and to myself that, I have permission to do whatever I want at any given point creatively, which I kind of like. It wasn't super intentional, and I picked that name when I was like 16 or 17.

It's amazing I still like it, because how many of us, made a decision at that age that, Has aged well. It could have gone so many different ways, but fortunately, like I picked that name, it really stuck. I've been—I mean, I'm completely synonymous with it now.

I don't even sometimes I struggle when someone asks me what they would I want my credit to be in like a magazine, like No Pattern or Chuck Anderson, and I honestly could you flip a coin at this point, in that context, like my name. It's almost interchangeable.

So I'm really lucky to have like a brand sort of first and foremost that I think kind of sets me up to feel like I can jump between media and different disciplines and go from photography to digital to vector to doing things by hand to whatever. And I've already like that almost like very literally with that name. I've already set it up that. That's, that may happen. And so that's kind of like something I think about a lot.

But as far as like the branding aspect and kind of being all things for a business like that, it is weird because I, it's like artists now are tasked with a lot if you want to sort of have success in 2024. And that's, it's like being your own like social media manager and when should I post something? When's the best time? Do I need to be checking all my traffic to my site and like monitoring, where stuff's coming from?

And do I need to be boosting my posts? And it's a lot. It is. It's a lot. And I can't even imagine just starting out now. I mean, I really— it's very overwhelming to think about coming out of college or something in 2024, or even just being in college and setting like an Instagram up and starting to post your work. And just being like, how do I— outside my classmates?

And I'm gonna follow some people, but it must seem— I mean, to be really honest, it must seem insane to think about accumulating thousands, if not tens of thousands of followers to someone right now who's kind of like just starting out. Just must feel very overwhelming. And I get that. So I think the important thing to remember is to just always fall back on doing good work. It's really that simple.

I mean, I think all this other stuff, I mean, it's important and it's not frivolous because I think we do rely on these platforms. Unfortunately, we do. I mean, we rely on Instagram and Twitter when we have a new piece of work or project to share. I mean, it's just the way it is right now. I think it's important that people own their own platform in some way, and I think it's important to control the presentation and context of your work somehow on a website.

I think, I think the way that you display your work says a lot about, even if it's super simple like how mine is, I think it's important because I don't want my work to just be controlled by what Meta thinks it should look like in a grid on Instagram. Separately supplemental to that is like my website. And so I think people should Have that too, even if it's simple.

But I mean, at the end of the day though, I just think like focusing on making quality work is the number one thing that artists need to lean back on reminding yourself why you do any of this in the first place.

I mean, whenever I find myself like in a rut, in like a pit of just like you know feeling down, feeling depressed creatively, feeling kind of like you know you wake up some days and you're like what's the not in like such a big existential way here, but like you might feel kind of like, I don't know, man, what's the point? Who gives a shit? And it's easy to feel like that. I think, I think everybody feels like that.

But I think artists are especially hard on themselves because we can maybe struggle to figure out like, what's the point of doing this if you're not feeling mentally well or feeling happy? Why? What am I bothering doing creating beauty? I don't feel like that's reflecting. So it's hard. It's a, it's a lot.

It's, and then like followers and likes and feeling underappreciated, or like you were so excited to post something and you finally did it and it just kind of felt like a drop in the ocean. And wait, did you guys— hey, in case you didn't see— and then you like repost it. And it is overwhelming. I think everyone— but again, in the interest of this conversation, artists should give themselves a lot of grace. I think right now it's a tumultuous time in the world.

It's People's focuses are not on you. It's just not. It's on their paying their bills. It's on their families. It's on world affairs. It's on who's gonna be the fucking president soon again. It's like it just seems like there's bad options around every corner for so many things, and I think that's overwhelming as it is. And I think artists like to be the center of attention a lot of times. It's just I think we honestly too.

I think the crazy thing is with this conversation is like. It requires a certain degree of narcissism. I mean, you're posting about yourself and your work with your overwrought caption and drawing attention to your thing that you made to hopefully sell your art to, your follower. I mean, it's just it's all— and then, and you wake up and try and do it again, and very taxing.

And I've been doing it for a very long time now, and I still think about what I used to do before social media and all these early design websites. I mean, anybody listening will only know these if they're around my age or so, but there used to be these sites like Surf Station and Design is Kinky and K10K.

And there were like these design blog aggregators that were like pivotal, like these seminal websites that like, that's where you went to find like the design graphic design news of the day and they had a little submission section and you could submit a link and a little like blurb about it and then you'd send it in and then I would be checking my traffic on my site for the next 24 hours and all of a sudden there'd be a spike and I'd go see who posted it.

And so it's like, it's always been there on the internet in some form. Now it's just there's, it's tenfold of that. It's, there's Instagram, there's stories, there's, you better get on TikTok and if you can't figure out TikTok, you're not gonna, make it, and you gotta do video content, and you gotta— and it's just it's a lot. So, and I— so I really do think that artists should be easy on themselves.

That's not to say, take it easy and don't work hard at these things, but I think you should pick a couple that you feel you're good at. And much like the saying goes, the best camera is the one that you have on you. It's like, the best outlet or the best place to share your work is the one that you feel like you'll naturally use.

It's a bad look to like start a new account for something and do like 6 posts, and then it like turns into like a ghost town. Just if Instagram feels comfortable for you, then like go hard on Instagram. Don't spread that content too thin everywhere else. Just like do a really good job right there. I think that's okay. But I think you should maintain some kind of presence, on your own site.

Make a book, like make— do, especially if you are like a digital artist, like I can't tell you how crazy it is to me how many artists I've met in the last few years, especially with like the boom of NFTs and all these like artists came out of the woodwork who didn't have like my type of background, which is more print oriented, and were doing digital art, but I'd never seen their work like on paper before. That's wild to me. You should print your work out.

You should print it on a piece of paper and look at it.

It's a totally different context. It's make a little zine, like go on Go on like Shutterfly and get a little book, made of it and like flip through the pages. I mean, these are things that you can do to see your work in new contexts and then provide it to people in those ways that can differentiate you from— I don't want to call it laziness, but maybe complacency or just feeling like, oh, image on screen is fine. JPEG. JPEG good. Yeah.

So do something a little above and beyond that, like shows the level of detail and care that frankly not only respects the work but the viewer, right? I mean, I think like there's a level of respect I feel when someone mails me something I've ordered and it doesn't just come like thrown in like a plastic bag and there's no note or any extras inside.

That feels like I just bought a shirt from a hardcore band, which is great, and that's all I really need from a like a $20 t-shirt from like a cool band that I love. But I feel like artists, like if someone buys something from me and I'm mailing it to you, like you're always gonna get a cool-ass package that you're gonna like debate whether you should throw it away or not. And that's a, because I'm quite obsessive.

I can't fathom just like dropping something in the mail and like it just shows up and it's like, okay, like whatever. But I also like really love the classic story of, Steve Jobs wanting the iPhone case to come off real slowly because it was suctioned closed.

I want there to be some— like my version of that is that you bought a book, but you didn't know it was going to come with like a little drawing I did, or like I put a bunch of little stickers in there or something like that. So there's always something you can do to like elevate your work, and it doesn't have to cost like an arm and a leg either.

Like get some stickers made to put on the thing, or get a bag that fits just right to put the print in, or I don't know. But there's something— there's always like a little extra step you can do that like 99% of people aren't doing. So I guess it's those things that I think about. And show the work too, like the behind the scenes. People love screenshots. I show screenshots, like Photoshop screenshots. That does better than like almost any content I could do.

It's probably, if I were to start a TikTok, that would be like, that would be what I would do. I, it would just be like me working in Photoshop and people would be like, what the hell? What are you doing right now? I'm like, I don't know, man. I just like figured this technique out last week. And, so yeah, but I mean, that's it. So.

Christian Solorzano [47:45]

Yeah, I like that. And with a lot of the monumental success that you've had, how do you, how do you manage to let that not get to your head? Because you come across as someone that's very grounded and still like producing the work that you create. Because do you, you're still creating work? Oh yeah, it's the Midwest, right? I feel like that's a very common theme. Yeah. Okay.

Chuck Anderson [48:11]

It's not that. I mean, I think like I come from a family, like I'm very proud of my work. It's not that I don't, there's certainly like ego and there's certainly like, a sense of like wanting to occasionally like find tasteful ways to remind people like what I've done in a way that's not like beat you over the head with it. And again, like back to like the ego, kind of thing. And wanting attention and all that stuff. But I hope I didn't cut you off.

I don't know, were you just asking about like staying grounded throughout success and like— Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [48:44]

How do you stay like grounded, modest, humble, like all these qualities that I feel like you—

Chuck Anderson [48:50]

Well, I appreciate that. Yeah. This conversation is feeling very Canadian right now, actually. But I don't know, man. I mean, yeah, I think I don't even want to just say Midwest because I know plenty of like great artists and stuff all over the place. But the environments and the people you spend your time in ultimately has the impact on that.

I mean, I got 2 little kids and, I think my life changed dramatically when my, when I had my daughter and I should say when my wife had our daughter and when my daughter was born. And the purpose in life changed. I've always just kind of, I mean, this is, I'm not any different in the interview right now than I would've been before, but I mean, I just think about that.

It just, it's, I guess the answer is like family and environment, I think, has a big impact. And I think Chicago, I've planted my flag so hard in Chicago. I bought a house here last year and it's the second place I've owned in Chicago. I'm, my wife works for the city, my kids go to CPS, this is it. For me, like I plan on raising my children here. I, like there's something about settling into a place that makes you sort of like feel at ease.

I feel very comfortable here, but for as big as the city of it as it is, it's small in a lot of regards too. I feel like the creative community is like not nearly as intimidating and overwhelming as it. Is in New York or LA or London or whatever. I think if I want to do a studio visit with someone or they want to come here, like kind of an email away, DM away.

Like I've got, I've got a studio visit lined up with like a different artist or designer or photographer every week for the next like couple weeks just on like bumping into them at an event last week and being like, hey, let's hang sometime. Like it's so, I don't know, I just think it's like you're the way that you kind of live your life, and, for me, like my work and who I am is so intertwined, hard to separate it.

So I don't know what that has to do with like the answer, but I think subliminally somehow in my head it has to do with it. Like I'm just I am my work. My work is me. I don't know if that's a healthy or unhealthy thing. I'm sure a therapist would have words, or some people would think. Away about that, but I'm just so intertwined with, my identity is so wrapped up in my work. But then there's moments where I'm like, I'm a dad now.

I'm just with my kids. I'm hanging out with, other parents right now, and, they don't really care, or maybe they do for a minute, and we move on, and it's whatever. And I don't know. I mean, I think I just end up thinking about, why I'm doing what I'm doing. And I don't know.

I have people like, people I find, and this isn't, impacting how I act or anything, but I find people are really drawn to extraordinary things or like seemingly out of reach things or big things or accomplishments or whatever with kind of like not that many fireworks really behind the scenes. Like when I, when you bring up the Windows 7 thing, it's like, that's remarkable that I got that project.

And I know that it was seen by billions of people for many years and still is on desktops all around the world right now. I see it every day almost. But what am I gonna go buy like a cool car because I did that? No, you know what I mean? I don't know, at the end of the day, who gives a shit?

It's a cool project and it comes up in like conversation, but am I gonna carry myself different at the coffee shop and think people know who I am because I did that? It's like, I'm not in the NBA, I'm not in this fucking Strokes. What do you— and I'm just, you know what I mean? And no one in our like little environments, at a design conference or like a school, like wants you walking in with your sunglasses on acting like, you're special.

And in fact, some of the, I mean, I've spoken at some huge international design conferences and rubbed shoulders with like some of the biggest names.

And honestly, like most of the time, like everybody's pretty chill, but the people that left me with some bad taste in my mouth who I won't name, but like some of the truly like biggest, I mean, you probably even like guess, but I think of some of the biggest name graphic designers like in the world who have been doing it for like decades. And I was like, hey, guy's kind of a prick. I don't know.

I don't care that you've done work for any of these, bro. Why? I don't care. You're not cool. You're not like nice or like you carry yourself a certain way and you like everybody looking at you and I can tell and I just don't really have time for that. So I don't know, man. People like just like being normal and I feel best when I'm just comfortable and just whatever. I don't know, we got to be able to laugh at ourselves too at this stuff.

It's just, I don't know, man, design, especially like graphic design, and a lot of self-serious— and art, I mean, all these worlds have a lot of very self-serious people. And I don't know, man, at the end of the day, I'm just trying to play fantasy basketball and like chill with my kids and like watch like Top Chef and like hang out. Yeah, I don't know, man. I'm just like a big kid. I'm sometimes like, I'm 30, I'm almost 39.

But like a lot of times I'm just kind of like mostly trying to like do the stuff that was fun when I was like 17.

Christian Solorzano [54:16]

Yeah. Oh man, I love that. I love that attitude. That's great. So we're almost at time, but we do have a series of what we call quickfire questions. So we'll just shoot them your way. Can you talk to us a little bit about the blue that is used in No Pattern's visual identity?

Chuck Anderson [54:38]

The blue. Oh, I don't really, it's funny. I definitely don't have like a set visual. That's probably just like the blue I liked that day. And then once you set it up on the site and change the CSS, and then it's kind of a pain to change it back. I think it just, I don't know, it looked good. Like black felt a little too sterile. Red felt too intense. I don't know. Just felt right. Very neutral.

Maybe a slight homage to like Early, I don't know, there's something very like computer graphics about, just like a blue screen with white or gray text on it. So I don't know. It's funny. I've actually not really thought about that. I'm not sure like that sort of royal blue like really shows up in a whole lot of places. But I did do that Crash Report shirt.

There was like a big blue flower on the back with the black text over it, and I guess it's on the top of the site. So I suppose right now it would be the brand colors. Yeah. Yeah. That's according to the official brand book. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [55:36]

How do you prefer to get around the city? Car, train, bus, bike, or do you walk?

Chuck Anderson [55:41]

This is so embarrassing, but I'm a car guy. I love driving. I embarrassingly very rarely take public transportation. That's not because I'm like too good for it. It's not because whatever. I just like My car is such a comfortable, safe place to be. And I love just being able to bop around, knowing this morning I'm like, I need to go from home to Blick in Lincoln Park to this.

I need to stop in REI and then I'm going to meet a friend for lunch at Dub's in Wicker Park. What am I going to— I mean, what am I going to wait for all the right buses? I mean, it's just not happening.

I guess a bike would be fine for that too. I just, then I don't know, then I couldn't have carried like this, like 40 pounds worth of panel I bought from Blick. So yeah, that's, that tends to be how I get around. Yeah, I was looking, or I'm walking, honestly, walking or driving. The in-betweens are pretty rare.

Christian Solorzano [56:41]

Yeah, I was looking through your Facebook and you had a, you had a Volvo in 2014. Are you a Volvo person or?

Chuck Anderson [56:52]

Damn. Wow. That was like a, you're going Way better. Nardwar mode, like digging deep on the interview research. I had a Volvo S40 T5 all-wheel drive that was an awesome car. I loved that car. I should say I've always appreciated cars. I've never been a car guy. I want to be somehow, but I think that has to just happen naturally. I can't just all of a sudden really start loving and being into cars and stuff, but I think it's I think people who are, it's cool.

My first car ever was a little black and pink Geo Tracker. That's what I drove to high school and drove, my girlfriend around in. And it's not a safe or cool car, but it was a soft-top convertible, and that set the stage for just being comfortable in whatever. So no, I do not have a Volvo now. I have moved on to— we have an Acura SUV with 2 big old car seats in it right now.

And it's been, it's been a super solid car for the last 4 years. But yeah, I might go back to a Volvo eventually. I don't know. But yeah.

Christian Solorzano [58:02]

All right. 3rd question. If you were stuck on a desert island, what would be 3 albums and 3 movies that you would bring with you?

Chuck Anderson [58:10]

Well, let me think. The albums, I mean, I kind of feel like I have to go by what I listen to a lot versus like what I'm just like into right now, but probably 3 albums. God, I know it's such a stereotypical answer for like a designer to give, but I mean, I don't know which Radiohead album it would be. I still love OK Computer. I still love in Rainbows. And I mean, I don't know, almost like any Radiohead album from that or Kid a.

Maybe Kid a, that might be it. Probably a David Bazan/Pager the Lion album, if you're familiar with him. There's a lot of his albums that I really love. And then, God, I don't know, I'm trying to think of my favorite hardcore record. I mean, I mostly listen to hardcore and like pretty like abrasive hardcore and punk and metal stuff. So damn, I don't know, I'm not sure. I— the album— the funny thing is like full albums are like almost irrelevant to me now.

There's just like singles and I don't remember the last time, album track did— like, track 1 to the last track was, really hit in such a way where I'm like, that album. But I don't know, maybe shit, I don't know. I'll get back to you. The movie thing, the movie thing, I mean, you gotta have some comfort. So I'd have the Sandlot. I'd have— I'll just make this real easy. I'll probably do the Sandlot, and then I'll do Home Alone and Home Alone 2.

Hey, those are classics. They're good. No, and then you know what I'll do? I'll do Sandlot, Home Alone, and then probably No Country for Old Men. Yeah, so I'll have 2 to just keep me laughing and not thinking, and then one to just like bring me right back down to earth. So yeah, funny, I'm not like a huge like movie guy either. I like, I like them, but I'm not like a film buff or anything.

There's all sorts of like graphic design like people who, when I talk to, I'm just man, I am just different because like I kind of like honestly we could just if you was— if you just wanted to talk about basketball for like an hour, I'd be down or just like riff on like Photoshop. But as soon as it gets to like A24 stuff, I'm like, I don't know, it's cool, it's fine.

I like some movies, but— oh, and then I probably couldn't— Converge Jane Doe would probably be my other album, by the way. Yeah, that was a huge important album for me. So yeah.

Christian Solorzano [60:31]

And is, and is film and music ever Something that you want to get into?

Chuck Anderson [60:38]

No, not so much. I mean, music, yes, in that I love doing work for musicians. I love making album artwork. I love doing t-shirts, little flyers, like whatever, especially in the realm of music that I'm into. Yeah, I just— I don't know, man. I just— I love the energy of the— like, I've— like I said, I've mostly— I grew up like a, into hardcore, going to hardcore shows and punk shows and stuff, and that's still like kind of my main love musically.

And I've gotten to know a lot of people in a lot of those bands, just like they're easy to, it's still usually pretty like small operations at the end of the day. Like they're easy to like, you follow them, they follow me back because I have a decent-sized following. So oh cool, who's this? And I'm like, no, I love your band. And then next thing I know, I'm doing like a t-shirt for them and the bass player's Venmoing me $100. And that's cool.

Yeah, I like that. Film, like it's, I mean, I don't know, I've never really like found an avenue for what I do into Movies I've never like aspired to. I guess doing like movie posters would probably be very cool. But yeah, that's not really been like a part of my world, I guess. But yeah, music is like really where my heart's at, I think. As far as like any media goes, that's really like what I care more about. And some TV. But yeah.

Christian Solorzano [61:59]

All right. Question number 4. Is there any particular word that you've really struggle with spelling?

Chuck Anderson [62:05]

No, I gotta be honest with you. I am a very good speller. I'm a spelling bee champ. I'm a, I'm a low-key, people don't know it, but I've done Scrabble tournaments. Yeah, I had, I, I'm, I have a really photographic memory and I just literally, I'm not, when I say I can just see a word in my head, like it's just there and then I just say the letters. Like I've always been like that.

I was very, I was not a, I was a very average student. But I was always with like the grammar and vocab tests and stuff, always the first. I would stand up and put my paper down, and kids would look at me like, what the fuck? How is he done? I'm like, I don't know, dude. I just remember that this word means that. I don't even understand the definition. I just can connect the dot, and I might forget it tomorrow, but it's fresh in my mind.

So I'm trying to think if there's any word that's such a good question, but I'm not sure there's any word that comes to mind. I'm like, Always struggling with spelling. I'm really enjoying— I have this picture. I'm really enjoying my daughter who's in first grade and watching her learn to— she's starting to like write and or whatever. And she brought this paper home and it said introduction on the top spelled I-N-C-H-R-O. So intro, D-U, like K-S-H-I-N.

And it was just like the cutest, most like overthought like phonetically perfect, but like so way wrong. And it's very cute to like decipher that language. And I'm really enjoying watching a child like understand spelling. So I think more questions about spelling for artists and designers in the future, because you'll either find out people are like, oh, I'm a horrible speller. Now, if you ask me anything about math, I'll get back to the humble guy and I'll be like, oh my God.

But Unfortunately, photographic memory doesn't translate when formulas and whatnot are like involved to like solve complex problems. But the spelling thing was always pretty tight though.

Christian Solorzano [64:01]

Nice. All right. Question 5. What do you have a favorite Chicago spots?

Chuck Anderson [64:06]

Spots? Oh man. So many. My favorite things is when someone from out of town is coming to Chicago and they ask me where they should go. One of my favorite things in the world. I will spend like an hour on a custom list just for you. Favorite Chicago spots? Taste of Lebanon in Andersonville. Cash-only Lebanese. I probably go there more than like any other restaurant to get like chicken shawarma, chicken shawarma wrap. And it just, it's a great, I mean, it's so good. I love it.

All of Andersonville. I'm a big fan. I love Andersonville. Hop Leaf. And they'll like La Colombe, Hop Leaf, Taste of Lebanon, like the Middle Eastern bakery like that, just like intersection of Clark and Foster is a personal favorite of mine. There's a coffee shop called Side Practice that's at Damen and Foster that I go to a lot. Good friends with the owner of that place. Loba Bakery is another spot that I love. Restaurant-wise, man, there's so many good restaurants.

Just had an amazing dinner at Daisy's recently in Logan Square. Gather is probably my favorite restaurant in the city. That's in Lincoln Square. Monteverde in the West Loop, Green Street Smoked Meats, and in the West Loop, those are all great spots. Haven't even said like a pizza place yet. Spaccanapoli, which is basically across the street from my office, is amazing. I don't know. Oh man. Yeah, I could just do an hour on this. I just, I could talk like Chicago places forever.

There's a cool cafe that's way— it's down in Hyde Park called Plain Air. That I really love. They have horrible internet there, so I've found myself not going there because it's so far, and I'll get there and the internet's like unusable, and it's always super crowded. But really rad little spot, like beautiful on like a nice day. It's really one of my favorite like kind of vibes of anywhere. Oh man, yeah. Any like specific things you'd want to add, like specific spots in Chicago?

Christian Solorzano [66:08]

I mean, I think those are all good. I think the question is like, where would we find you? What's like a typical like where can you spot Oh, I go to Hex a lot.

Chuck Anderson [66:17]

Hex Coffee is really good. Big fan of that place over on Clybourn and Damen, I think. Yeah, I find myself there a lot. Yeah, man, like Paulina Meat Market, killer sandwiches. You know what I really don't like about Chicago? We have no good bookstores here, and I think it's a real shame. We have Quimby's in Wicker Park, which is Old standby, Myopic's fine. Good. I mean, like solid bookstore, don't get me wrong.

But like there's just it's crazy to me that we don't have like some like really world-class like art bookstore or like whatever. Like there's little holes in the wall, like you know more like journal, like more like you know like I don't know. I'm thinking more like art books and obscure like you know art and photography books. There's just like nothing like you go to the MCA, I guess. You could go to. Like I said, Quimby's and stuff, but like real good magazines.

And I don't know, honestly, the best spot was Barnes & Noble in Lincoln Park at one point, and then that's gone. And so I think it's coming back soon to the Walgreens, the old Walgreens in Wicker Park. But that's one thing I'm a little unhappy about in Chicago, that it's hard to go find like cool books.

Christian Solorzano [67:30]

And did you used to work at Borders, or—

Chuck Anderson [67:33]

I did used to work at Borders in high school. Yeah. Shout out. I spent so much— I didn't party. I was very like, I was straight edge, like real clean. Like I didn't, I really didn't party. I was in a band in high school and outside of that, like I really didn't. Yeah, I just, I didn't like do anything crazy.

Like I spent time at Borders, like on the weekends I would go to Borders and look at magazines and like look at CDs and like look at whatever and art books and everything. And eventually I was like, I should just get a job here and Got a job there. Yeah, they let you check books out like a library. It was sick.

Christian Solorzano [68:06]

I remember when Borders introduced like the little kiosk with Amazon that was connected to Amazon and you could order CDs, like special CDs from like the internet at the Borders. And my friends and I, we would go there and like order a ton of like just Marilyn Manson stuff that we couldn't find anywhere else.

Chuck Anderson [68:24]

Dude, my first experience seeing a Marilyn Manson CD was at a Blockbuster, if you can believe that. Nice. They used to carry CDs way back in the day, so we'd go there to look for, if I'd go there, my dad would take me there on a Friday night to rent like a, like a PlayStation game for the weekend. And I, after I got done picking out Metal Gear Solid again, I went over and looked through all the CDs.

And I remember seeing Marilyn Manson CDs and just picking them up and like staring at them and being like, what is— like, this is so crazy. Yeah, I miss looking at just like flicking through CDs at record stores and stuff way back in the day and being like very shocked by yeah, imagine like a little 15-year-old, like very like kind of insular Christian churchy me finding like a Cannibal Corpse record, and like trying to wrap my head around like what I was looking at.

A very cool experience. But yeah.

Christian Solorzano [69:17]

So the last question is Ghostface Killah still your favorite Wu-Tang member?

Chuck Anderson [69:27]

Probably. I was never like really into big into Wu-Tang, but I did love him and I loved some of those early albums. Like that was my I was like got into hip hop like enough for a little bit, and he was one that for whatever reason just like really hit for me. And this is again like early days of the brilliance, probably 2003, 4, 5, like right around like Supreme clientele. Era Ghostface was sick. But yeah, probably.

I guess I would say it's probably the one I know the most about.

Christian Solorzano [70:01]

Oh, all right. Well, this has been great. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Carson. Great conversation. It flew by.

Chuck Anderson [70:10]

So it always does. Yeah, it always does.

Christian Solorzano [70:14]

Any parting words, Carson? Chuck?

Carson Koppin [70:17]

I would just echo what Christian said. Just thanks for the time and thanks for just being so willing to speak with us. I have to say, the small plug of, you reaching out to us, we totally freaked out of, oh my God, Chuck Anderson, right? It was, it was, it was, we were, we were plotting a little bit of the dots from, Ben.

Chuck Anderson [70:38]

I think, what did I find? I think you, I think you guys were, I think I thought, I think I followed you.

Christian Solorzano [70:42]

Yeah, you followed us and then we reached out.

Chuck Anderson [70:44]

I may have followed you. Yeah. I was trying to track the, connect the dots. And it's one of those things where I'm always like, oh, like there's all, Chicago is bigger than you realize. Like there's always someone doing something. You didn't know about until you suddenly did, and the next thing, you're actually chatting with people. But yeah, no, it's great. I really enjoy just chatting about work and this stuff, and I think, it's cool that, what you guys are doing.

And do you host like live, some live things too? Did I see, or am I mistaken?

Christian Solorzano [71:16]

Yeah, we do. We do a handful of virtual and live events as well. We just had our a magazine launch party a few weeks ago. That, that's been like our latest big project was launching a magazine.

Chuck Anderson [71:27]

Oh, cool. Nice. Congrats.

Christian Solorzano [71:29]

And thank you. Thank you. And we have some upcoming in-person events as well. So.

Chuck Anderson [71:34]

All right on. Cool. Well, let me know. I'll have to check 'em out. But yeah, I think parting words are actually kind of along those lines.

I'm really trying to make an effort to like at least once a week, definitely at least once every 2 weeks, go out of my way to really make sure to, go have lunch or coffee or whatever with another artist, designer, whatever, in their studio, or have them come up here and see my space and spend an hour and a half just talking and, remembering to do that. And, I think, I don't know, I think people should do that.

That's not like open invite to, just pop in the DMs and set up a time to come up here, like. Not that I don't like wanna meet, people, but I do think like getting out and like going to things in Chicago is important because it is a city of exports and people love to leave Chicago. People love to go to LA, find greener pastures in New York and go wherever else.

And like I said, as someone who's really like, I'm here for the long haul, I really appreciate when it feels like people are gonna stick around and invest. Here, and so whatever that looks like to you, and it comes in different shapes and sizes. People go out; some people aren't as comfortable. Some people, whatever the case may be. But I think, supporting you know the city that you're in some capacity, whatever that looks like to you, is important.

But doing a magazine, doing a podcast, like doing live events, like no one's gonna just do that stuff for you. And if you're not seeing it, it's good that you guys are doing it. And that's exactly the ethos that Ben and I had when we started the Brilliance. It didn't exist and we felt like something like it should, so we did it. And that's usually a pretty good guiding principle for things to come, making some shit happen.

So I guess that would probably be my parting words.

Christian Solorzano [73:27]

Yeah, I wrote in my notebook the other day because I was watching one of your talks and I believe one of your quotes was, if you do something will happen.

Chuck Anderson [73:36]

Yeah, that's a classic. That was a classic quote that Ben and I used to say all the time, and I'm always reminded of it because it's— you just gotta start somewhere and then, and you do it. And next thing, your life's just a little bit different than it was the day before when you were wondering why there was crickets.

And then you just do a little more, a little more, and then who knows, next thing, 20 years later, and you're talking about all those little things with a couple guys who are a few miles away from you in Chicago. But yeah, truer words were never spoken. If you do something will happen, good or bad, life-changing, nothing, whatever. But just, keep chipping away at whatever it is that you're excited about. And yeah.

Christian Solorzano [74:21]

Well, it's all right. Well, perfect. All right. Well, thank you so much.

Chuck Anderson [74:24]

Yeah, thank you guys. We'll keep in touch and yeah, and don't forget to let everybody know everything I just said was a joke. This is April Fool's Day episode, so I didn't mean any of this. All lies. I'm a big car guy, hate Photoshop, love 3D, and I am a web designer. All right, talk soon. All right, guys, take care. Thanks. Bye.