Christian Solorzano [00:20]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and on today's episode, I have the privilege of speaking with graphic designer Denny Liu, co-founder alongside his wife Julia of the Chicago-based studio Apertif. And in our conversation together, we speak about everything that led up to Studio Apertif's creation, along with some of the challenges that come into play when it comes to Starting your own thing.

What's unique about Denny's studio is that it blends both graphic design and interior design, primarily focusing on clients in the hospitality industry. We also learn about Denny's upbringing and how both being raised by a father who was an industrial designer and also being passionate about drawing his favorite band logos on his binder led to a career in graphic design, which he's been doing for the last 10+ years. We discuss the current state of graphic design, the industry, and so much more.

So as always, enjoy, and we'll talk to you soon. Good afternoon, Denny. How's it going?

Denny Liu [01:37]

Good. How are you?

Christian Solorzano [01:38]

Pretty good. How's the summer been treating you so far? Are you a fan of almost 100-degree weather?

Denny Liu [01:43]

I mean, I was born in a tropical climate, so kind of used to it. Prefer the hot over the cold. Still don't know why I still live in Chicago, but—

Christian Solorzano [01:51]

Do you have any favorite outdoor activities during the hot weather season?

Denny Liu [01:55]

Probably not a hot weather activity, but I just picked up golf along with my wife, Julia, about a year ago. So it's nice to get outside and do. Other than that, just sitting by the pool.

Christian Solorzano [02:05]

I learned that you were raised in St. Louis. You're in Chicago now. Can you tell us what brought you to Chicago? What's your relationship to Chicago?

Denny Liu [02:14]

Yeah, so my father was an industrial designer for about 30 years. He got a job in St. Louis and so that's why we moved to St. Louis. And he would often travel to Chicago for the electronics design trade shows at the McCormick Center. So at a young age, he brought us over. And one day around my senior year in high school, the School of the Art Institute had a rep come in did a presentation and I was like, perfect. I love Chicago. It's a beautiful city.

I wasn't a good student in high school, so I was like, that's the one school I'm gonna try to apply to. And I got in and I've been here ever since.

Christian Solorzano [02:59]

Why weren't you a good student?

Denny Liu [03:01]

Because I was an artist and a designer, design mindset, not an academic mindset.

Christian Solorzano [03:05]

A lot of creatives and designers could relate to that. I was also, I didn't have the best high school experience. It's always nice to know that I'm in good company with other talented people. So then, so you, so you come from St. Louis, you go to the School of the Art Institute, you graduate in 2009. What sparked the interest in graphic design or visual communication? What led you down that path?

Denny Liu [03:28]

My father was already an artist. He does traditional art, he does ceramic arts, but back in the day he did industrial design. So we had a lot of design books. In around the house. And I think kind of that creative spark came naturally to both myself and my brother and some of my cousins as well who work in the design industry. But, we always grew up surrounded by a lot of things that I thought were from Taiwan ended up being from Japan.

A lot of like comic books, packaging, food packaging. And for some reason, I just naturally gravitated to the line work, the colors, kind of the energy. When I got to college, I, at that point, I really still had no idea what graphic design was, what that entailed. But, like many of us who got into the industry in high school, we sketched and redrew logos from, our favorite brands or favorite album covers on our binders. And I think that's just kind of how it started naturally.

Christian Solorzano [04:28]

That's the classic binder with like all the band logos. I feel like that's an entryway for a lot of people. Yeah. What were some of those band logos?

Denny Liu [04:38]

So my favorite one was probably Green Day, the Dookie album, the giant fart cloud. Typical Nirvana, the S diamond S logo. I don't even know who does that, but every kid probably drew that. Yeah, those are probably the big 3 that I remember. And then eventually, like the Stussy logo, Nike.

Christian Solorzano [04:57]

I remember when I was in middle school, there was girls that had really nice handwriting and you could pay for them to write your name on your binder. And it was, I don't know, at the time, I thought it was like such a brilliant design job. I mean, obviously it wasn't called design, but it was the girls would do the bubble letters and then the guys would do the Old English and they would just do it really nicely.

And I remember like being very jealous of those people with the very nice handwriting because mine is not.

Denny Liu [05:30]

Oh, mine's terrible. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [05:33]

Well, that's cool. So then, so you've been in Chicago for quite some time and looking through some of your experiences leading up to what you're doing today with your studio. I know something that's been on my mind a lot lately and something that I've been discussing with a lot of my peers is trying to understand the background and the context of maybe what are some of the things that lead to someone wanting to start their own design studio practice.

So if you don't mind walking us through where you're at now and sort of what led up to it.

Denny Liu [06:05]

Yeah, so the design studio kind of came out of a necessity. We, Julia and I, did not intend on creating our own studio. So how it started was, I think, 2021, during the height of the pandemic when we were in lockdown. Julia wanted to leave her interior design corporate job and kind of venture out on her own. So we kind of discussed what that would look like. How that would work out. I was still working full-time at the Office of Experience.

So eventually we came to the conclusion that we should just combine our services because I do have a hospitality background, and she was working in hospitality design prior to getting into my career as a designer. Between 2000 and 2009, I took 5 years off of school, and I worked in various restaurants in Chicago. Eventually designed for a few of my friends who own restaurants here. So we said, let's just combine it.

And there was a lot of uncertainty, around that time during the pandemic of like, if I would be able to keep my job, what would happen? Where's the world going right now? So it was kind of, for me, kind of a backup plan in case I lost my job. Up until today, Julia still runs it with more of her clients from the interior design side. And for me, it's more currently more just like a side hustle or freelance projects.

Like I previously mentioned to you, I got laid off a few months ago. And so now it's kind of like fuel, adding fuel to the fire of like, okay, let's see how we can get this up and running as a real business, a real design studio.

Christian Solorzano [07:51]

What are some of the big pain points that come with Starting your own studio. I feel like sometimes we look at the nice website with the case studies and the cool names and all that, the cool clients, but I imagine that it's just, it's a lot of work. So maybe share with us some of those stories.

Denny Liu [08:13]

So for me, the biggest pain point of starting your own studio is like, how do you showcase work when you don't, when you didn't have these clients? So a lot of what you see on Studio Apertif's site is Past freelance work, right? That was a non-compete with the agencies that I was working with. And for Julia, she created a lot of different concepts, and rendered it out just so we had visuals, as a proof point that we are capable of creating these assets for clients.

But I think, number one, that's the biggest challenge, even though, our 10+ years of experience. But it's like, well, we can't show any of that work, right? And then second is finding clients, right? The client acquisition, right? Designers aren't the best business-savvy people. We don't know who to reach out to. Most of our, most of our, people in our network are our peers and probably also our competition. But yeah, so those are the questions that I'm asking myself right now.

It's like, well, how do I How do I get this really started and, create a real business out of this?

Christian Solorzano [09:24]

Yeah, because I was looking through the talk that the both of you did at the Brand New Conference last year, and I got a chance to see some of those, some of those concepts that the both of you were working through to showcase both interior design and also branding, graphic design, etc. And I feel like that's such a smart way to showcase your capabilities without having like the actual work that points to a client. What was that process like coming up with these, with these concepts?

Denny Liu [09:57]

So Julia created almost 10 different restaurant concepts in the beginning, and I would help her craft a logo for it, make a really quick sample. And we work pretty well together. We realize we each have our own lane. She does the interior, and because we work side by side, literally she's sitting right behind me in this desk. It's easy for us to just, step behind each other and ask for feedback.

But we also try not to step on each other, knowing that she's an expert, in her field, and vice versa. But we just have, good dynamic energy where it's like, you do what you're doing. Ask for feedback. I'll give you some feedback. You could take it if you want. If you don't, you don't. But yeah, it's kind of just typically how it goes.

Christian Solorzano [10:45]

I noticed that one of the, like on your, on your personal website, for example, like you have a playground and you talk about how play, you say play is how we engage our human brains to develop novel ideas and solutions. And I'm curious about how you talk to us a little bit about what play means to you and sort of how you how you embed some of these silly projects. Maybe walk us through like how you fuse those 2 things together.

Denny Liu [11:11]

Yeah, so I've always thought of myself as not a traditional, like say, artist or designer. I don't always have clear ideas, and that's where play comes in for me. It's just experimenting through the software, happy accidents, and just discovery, making mistakes. Sometimes that sketch that I have on paper, I just can't translate digitally. But through that process of just keeping— I just keep pushing and pushing and playing, trying new things.

Sometimes I land on something that, sparks a little bit of joy, or like, it's like, that's the thing, right? But it was never the original idea, but it got better by that process of just like playing. Carrying that process into, my work life, professional work life, it's worked out for me a lot of times where it was just, I didn't know what I was gonna do in the beginning, but you give me enough time, you give me enough like leeway, something comes out of it.

Christian Solorzano [12:12]

Because I try to also have like my little sandbox environment of just like whether they're just mistakes or just like happy accidents that happen. And you never know when those things will come in handy when you're working on something and you're like, wait, I did something that maybe this could work for that.

Denny Liu [12:30]

So a lot of that, a lot of the play came out of like wanting to try a different technique. I never had a distinct style. Like some designers, lean on that one style and they get really good at it. For me, it's like I just always want to try different things and see how it goes. And then eventually one day, yeah, you have a client and you're like, oh, I remember how to do this. I can utilize this skill that I just learned.

Christian Solorzano [12:54]

I'm guessing like you're still doing both your professional work and your play work. Is that is that a correct assumption?

Denny Liu [13:00]

I will say now that I'm, older and in my 40s, the play work slows down a bit, priorities change a little bit, trying to learn different things outside of the design world. So there is still some in terms of like trying to play with AI, test out some of those software offerings out there and Hasn't been too successful yet, but, still.

Christian Solorzano [13:29]

Have you done much stuff with AI yet, or is it still— what are your thoughts on that?

Denny Liu [13:33]

I have nothing against AI. I think for me currently, from what I've seen on social media, it still kind of makes me feel like the early days when I discovered Photoshop effects. You can create one digital art image, but still haven't quite seen people translate that, into like a full brand expression or something that's a little bit more viable. I think in terms of like copywriting, it's been amazing. Someone like me who struggles with writing, toss something into ChatGPT or Gemini, it's been pretty helpful.

But end of the day, I still think you need a designer's eye on anything.

Christian Solorzano [14:14]

I've messed around with AI like a handful of times, and I do agree that it's I kind of think of it like candy. It's like Pretty to look at, but there's no like nutritional value there.

Denny Liu [14:24]

100%. That's perfect. Wait, that's perfect. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [14:27]

To your point, I haven't seen like an application that sort of made me be like, oh, I need to like, wow, that's really, it's really inspiring.

Denny Liu [14:35]

And it's kind of strange that like even on Getty Images and Shutterstock, you're starting to see AI-generated photos of people.

Christian Solorzano [14:44]

Yeah. And so I still find that aspect a little bit creepy, but so you've been doing design for quite some time now, and throughout your trajectory, have there been any defining— like, I'm curious about how you've seen from your perspective the design industry evolve, or like, what are your overall thoughts on like this, just the evolution of everything that's going on today? How do you feel? Do you feel optimistic?

Denny Liu [15:11]

Do you have hope?

Christian Solorzano [15:13]

Are you scared?

Denny Liu [15:14]

That's a great question. I mean, I'm always optimistic because I love just looking at design, right? That's what first got me into design is just viewing it. Some of the stuff that's coming out is just incredible. I think what's challenging for me is how to keep pace because everything just comes out so fast now.

I just spoke to my old college instructor the other day at SAIC, and she was like, these kids these days, they present work and it's like, it's just copied from, Pinterest or Behance. It's like, where's the real idea? So that's where I think it's a little bit kind of scary or challenging that some of the younger designers out there aren't finding their own voice. But at the same time, I can also say neither did I, right?

We were always referencing something that came before us and trying to make it better or make it our own. But yeah, in the industry as a whole, I think it's amazing. It's incredible to see how much growth.

Christian Solorzano [16:20]

I try to always encourage my students to not rely on like those inspiration websites. I tell them, I give them a list of all the ones that exist so that they know that they're there.

But I think there's something about being able to speak about your work that you just can't do when you're doing exactly what you see someone else doing, because it may look good, but what happens if like you're stuck in the elevator with someone and they're like, tell me about this, and you're like, I can't.

Denny Liu [16:48]

Yeah, it still has to have an idea, that's the point of graphic design, right?

Christian Solorzano [16:54]

And what have been some of your favorite— do you have any favorite designers or any— have you ever experienced like that one project that you've seen out in the wild that's sort of like, that's just made a huge impact yeah, so I will say probably one of my favorites is Bourbon County Brand Stout.

Denny Liu [17:15]

When I was at VSA Partners, VSA was the agency of record for Goose Island at the time, and so we did a lot of the rebrand for their logo, packaging, identity system, marketing. I was one of the lead designers on the team. I didn't design the Goose Island logo. I didn't design the Bourbon County brand mark, but I was the lead designer in shaping the final packaging from the initial concept.

And Dan Nucki, who I was working with previously, he's the creative director who created that one. But what I loved about that project was like, I hate to get into like the immigrant story, but, immigrants, coming to the States, cutting his teeth in his career in Chicago, working for probably the most prominent craft beer company in America and getting to work on this brand where people literally lined up during Black Friday, at like camping out.

So it was an amazing kind of project for me to say that this immigrant worked on this most sought-after beer in America at that point.

Christian Solorzano [18:38]

Okay. I always refer to those as like main character moments. What about any design heroes? Do you have any big inspirations that sort of are over your shoulder, like invisibly?

Denny Liu [18:48]

I don't, I don't, and I never did. I think I just try to absorb as much as I could from as many people that I saw. But, same with like pop culture. I don't fangirl for anybody. I just, if I liked it, I saw it. And sometimes I'd have a hard time remembering their names, especially now, I've got a bookmark. Every day I find a new site, constantly bookmarking.

Christian Solorzano [19:11]

The industry as a whole is like definitely like hyper-saturated to the point where it's just so difficult to keep up with everyone. Like even, I mean, even for the show, like I'm always just running into like new names. I'm like, I did not know that this person existed or this studio.

Denny Liu [19:29]

If you asked me 10 years ago, I probably could have named like 5, right? Probably like Pentagram and things like that. But now it's just, it's overwhelming to almost overwhelming to a point now, but exciting at the same time.

Christian Solorzano [19:42]

And for you, is there, do you find yourself having a, like a dream project or do you have, cause I see you work a lot with like Hospitality brands. There's a lot of packaging, et cetera. Do you have a big, a dream client or like a dream project?

Denny Liu [20:03]

I think currently, so I was, I've been doing B2B for about 5 and a half years and I think I just wanna get back to consumer-facing work. So I think my dream project would be a startup food company. Yeah, I think that'd be really fun. Yeah, start from top down, brand strategy, brand identity, and then doing the packaging.

Christian Solorzano [20:24]

I saw, I saw the project that you guys did for Goodles. Can you talk, can you talk to us a little bit about that project? What was it?

Denny Liu [20:31]

Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [20:32]

What went into it? Because I saw you speak about it and I gotta say, it's one of the coolest projects that I've ever, that I've seen in a really long time.

Denny Liu [20:40]

So Goodles is a mac and cheese pasta company. One of their founders or investors, primary investors is Gal Gadot. Wonder Woman. So they came to me through my old creative director, knowing that I had experience in beer packaging. So they created a limited time only one-off IPA-inspired mac and cheese. So they were using Citra hops, so it added some citrus flavor. They presented the brief and was like, we just want this to look like you're holding, a beer literally in your hands.

And luckily the packaging fits in your hands for that to work out. I think the original designer for the Goodles brand is Kyle Poff, who's also from Chicago. But yeah, super fun. So I presented a couple different options originally. Their current packaging is fairly simple, right? It's a photograph of a fork with some dripping mac and cheese. We didn't really have time for photography, or it wasn't in the budget, so I started kind of experimenting and exploring kind of illustration options for that.

And so that's how we kind of landed on this can idea that has a little bit of faux 3D photography, but, with this craft beer badge style symbol on it.

Christian Solorzano [21:58]

And today, what are some of the projects that you're currently working on, or what are you focusing on these days?

Denny Liu [22:04]

So what I'm focused on these days is Julia's personal brand. She's kind of pivoted and shifted into the health and wellness mindset space. So she wrote a book. I designed the book. We're designing some merch for it and also hopefully launching the website by July 1st. So.

Christian Solorzano [22:26]

And I understand like you both are husband-wife, a husband-wife duo. And what is that dynamic like when you're both working together? There's been, there's been several husband-wife partner creative partnerships that we've had on the show, and I'm always very interested in hearing what that dynamic is like.

Denny Liu [22:43]

Yeah, I know you just had Candice and Rotimi on. Yeah, so we met them at the Brand New Conference. Our dynamic might be similar to theirs where we're both in different industries, so we're not stepping on each other, stepping over each other. But like I said, we always, because the studio is just the 2 of us, we still need someone to check Our work. She does a lot of the proofreading for me, spell checking, because I'm terrible at that.

I look at her color samples, and help her pick the right colors or. But typically I'm more of a— I get up early in the day, work till late afternoon. She's more of a late afternoon till late at night worker. So yeah, so it's a pretty solid dynamic, I guess you would say. If you're asking, no fighting. We don't fight.

Christian Solorzano [23:30]

No fighting. Why did you guys go with that studio name? Can you tell us what's the name of your studio and what was the meaning behind it?

Denny Liu [23:37]

Yeah, so Studio Apertif, we knew we wanted something food or beverage related since we decided strategically we wanted to focus on hospitality and food and beverage branding and packaging. And if you're familiar with that aperitif, it's a spirit that you kind of have right before dinner, kind of opens up your palate before your meal.

And so we just like that idea of like, that's what design can do for, our clients and their customers, that it just gives them that little bit of excitement and get them ready for the actual product, and everything else that comes with it. So, we have this saying, stimulate your appetite. For design.

Christian Solorzano [24:27]

I like that you're— that the both of you are sort of like reframing design by putting it in the context of sort of like the industries that you're both going after, which is hospitality. And I know Julia couldn't be with us today, but you mentioned, she focuses more on like interior design. How did the two of you meet? Curious about that origin story and sort of how did that collaboration yeah, just tell us a little bit about that.

Denny Liu [24:57]

I was worried about this question after I heard one of your previous podcasts. We told her mother, my mother-in-law, that we met at school. We met at a club in Chicago back in 2019. I was working for the club promoter, a friend of mine, making their flyers and doing their photography. So we met at around 4 AM at a club and found out we went to the same school because my friend is Korean.

So a lot of the customers and the guests that would come were kind of in the Korean Asian community. Julie is Korean, I'm Taiwanese. And so, but that's how we met, got engaged 7 years later. And at that time she was going through her career through the interior design agencies like Simeone Deary, Gensler. And I was working my way up through, VSA and SoulSight and the Office Experience.

But I think it took the pandemic for us, or at least for her, to cause that shift to want to be an independent designer.

Christian Solorzano [25:58]

And it seems like it's a very common theme for designers and creatives to want to leave corporate environments. I feel like that's a recurring thing that I see.

Denny Liu [26:08]

I personally don't mind it. I don't mind having a steady paycheck, health insurance. I think that's a challenge now. It's like how to have that entrepreneurial mindset, how to find clients. Things like that, that's always been challenging for me because I never had the entrepreneurial mindset. And that's why I have Studio Apertif website, but I also have my personal website.

Christian Solorzano [26:32]

And so far, like up until this point, what are some of the things that have kept you in Chicago? What do you love about the city?

Denny Liu [26:39]

I love the convenience of the city. I gave up my car when I moved to Chicago in 2003 to live here full-time. I have 2 grocery stores in walking distance of my apartment here in the West Loop. All of my close friends that I've developed through my adult life are here. Many of them are now kind of live in the suburbs because they have kids now. So I miss them. If you're listening, I miss you. But I just like the convenience of it.

And from a career standpoint, it's been pretty good to me. There's a lot of agencies down here downtown.

Christian Solorzano [27:13]

I think Chicago has, in my opinion, and I've been to like several other big cities and experienced like little glimpses of their design community. And I, and I always say that like nothing compares to Chicago when it comes to sort of like the energy that we have here.

Denny Liu [27:28]

I will say that the community of designers in Chicago is really great, but I will also say that Chicago is not as experimental. They're not as like willing to push the boundaries, whereas like, West Coast, East Coast, they seem to have a little bit more fun in that sense. But we play a little bit safe, but, it's also Gets us to where we need to go.

Christian Solorzano [27:48]

I agree 100%. And I also feel like because of that, the people that do experiments, sort of their voices are much louder because it's like there's so little of it. It almost affords us the opportunity to get noticed for experimenting because it's— I agree. I feel like it's just maybe like the industry or like I worked a lot with like a lot of Companies in the Midwest, and it's always like insurance, like just those type of clients that are just very safe.

But yeah, but every now and then you see like the very like boutique studios that are really going crazy.

And I guess like another question that we sometimes like to ask our guests is just regarding the future of design and maybe do a little bit of like speculation on Maybe where you see the industry like heading towards, and maybe more so, is there any call to action or what are, what are like, if you, if you could snap your fingers and sort of make something come true when it comes to our industry, what do you wish to see more of?

Denny Liu [28:53]

I honestly don't know. I don't really think about the industry that much. I do find it to be cyclical, right? When, 10 years ago, craft, handcrafted design was a big thing, right? And now everything is kind of back to the '80s or '90s. I don't think anything will really change. Technology will change, but I don't think people will change in the sense that designers will always want to be able to craft something and call it their own without the use of a one-click, one-prompt.

What I would change about the industry, like I said, I don't know. I don't think about it too much, try not to. It's just I think about design enough to not want to keep thinking more about it.

Christian Solorzano [29:49]

You don't want to have an existential crisis about the future.

Denny Liu [29:53]

No, that's too— like I said, that's too academic mindset.

Christian Solorzano [29:57]

No, I feel like that's a healthy— one healthy way of looking at it. I'm hoping that there is more, and I do see that. I do see this happening, but just like a continued appreciation for more handcrafted, for more of that. Yeah, just more handcrafted design, like just more stuff that to me has like the heart and the spirit of something that was made by someone as opposed to something that's just like auto-generated.

Denny Liu [30:29]

And I think the design industry has already surpassed my younger vision of what it could be or what it was. And it's still going to keep growing. It's not going to stop. All these companies now understand the value of design. It's integrated into every company now, and it's awesome.

Christian Solorzano [30:53]

And I know in the beginning you were talking about some of your early design projects, or not design projects, but some of your early artistic explorations were drawing band logos and things like that. But was there any particular project that you did maybe when you were much younger, maybe before college, that was sort of the aha moments that maybe to this day, you're still very proud of?

Denny Liu [31:24]

Nothing really from like high school moments. For high school, it was really just, I was, I was an art student. I was nominated as the best artist of the senior class, but I wasn't a natural artist compared to my dad, so I wasn't doing anything remotely close to what a graphic design project would be. My aha moment, though, for me was after I graduated, I finally put a portfolio together of some of the projects that I was just working on the side.

And Julia helped me Japanese, bind it, hand-stitched it. We went to the Utrecht Art Store, bought the wax, bought the yarn. And that one, that one book, which no one makes anymore, right, for portfolios, which I still have. That's the one thing that kind of set off and started, my career.

Christian Solorzano [32:16]

Some of the art that you were doing, what were some of the themes, or what were you— what kind of art was it?

Denny Liu [32:21]

What were you doing? So when I was a kid, I really just liked to mimic, I'd find a page in a comic book that I just loved. I loved that thick black ink, and I would just try to recreate it. And that's when I started getting a little bit technically better at, I guess, say, mimicking. Because I have a joke with my brother, even though we both grew up artistic, is that none of us can draw a dog.

Whereas my dad could just pick up a pencil and draw a dog, in different— in 5 different styles. My brother and I, we can barely draw Odie from Garfield. But I think when it came to school, once I realized you needed to put together a portfolio for design school— or sorry, not design school, art school. I started kind of just making art that I thought that they wanted to see.

So I didn't like painting, I didn't like ceramics, I didn't like getting my hands dirty, but I would start trying to make some of these things. My dad made me sit down and draw a lot of like portraiture and self-portraits and He had like a bust of JFK and, practice doing that. So it was more focusing on the technical aspects of art rather than like anything creative.

Christian Solorzano [33:41]

That's a— those are some like pretty impressive exercises for like a dad to be giving their kid.

Denny Liu [33:47]

He was tough.

Christian Solorzano [33:49]

Yeah, I never experienced that. I wonder what would have happened if I did. I remember like when, I don't know if there's still a thing, but I remember like going to Blick and like actually buying the portfolio that you would like put your pages in. And it was a lot of work because you have to, lay everything out on the computer, print it, and then put it in there. And it was heavy?

Denny Liu [34:12]

I had to buy my own photo printer from, you know OfficeMax or whatever, buy the $40 Photo paper. It was insane. It was insane.

Christian Solorzano [34:23]

And outside of— I'm, I always like sort of unpacking a little bit about the person outside of their identity as a designer. But for you, what are some of the other things that you're into out, like when you're not thinking about design, when you're, when you're not doing design, what are some of the other things that perhaps complement the way that you, that you approach your work? What are other things you're into?

Denny Liu [34:47]

Yeah, so one thing was cooking. So during the pandemic, many of us probably started cooking ourselves, and I really started to enjoy cooking. It was just a time to get away from thinking about design, thinking about work, where we no longer had the opportunity to just go out and purchase lunch or dinner.

Had to start making myself, and I started to realize that cooking is not that different from design, if you if you're not prepared and you don't have everything prepped, the end result is gonna be, it's gonna be shit. Things like the mise en place in the restaurant industry where everything needs to be prepared similar to a design system now in Figma. That preparation gets you to a better end result. So that's something. Yeah, there's that.

And then just also like focusing on like health and fitness, and not sitting at a desk every day and making sure, I get a workout in and keep my brain healthy and get away from the computer for a few hours. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [35:48]

Which is, I feel like it's the most important thing. If you don't do that, then I feel like it, it'll catch up to you and then you can't do anything. Yeah. I think the, it's interesting how the pandemic was such a wake-up call for so many people to like realize so many things about themselves.

Perhaps were not often paid attention to. For example, like this podcast, like the Chicago Graphic Design Club, like that was a pandemic project that sort of— I don't think it would have— I don't think we'd be talking right now if it wasn't for the pandemic. A lot of cool opportunities.

Denny Liu [36:23]

That's cool.

Christian Solorzano [36:23]

And I think like the beauty of maybe being a designer or thinking creatively is that you're sort of subconsciously like always Identifying opportunities and problems and yeah, I don't know. That's what I really like about what we do. It's such a luxury and like such a privilege to be able to do this.

Denny Liu [36:43]

Yeah. Julia hates it when I call out kerning issues in like movie titles.

Christian Solorzano [36:46]

And speaking of movies and just music and just maybe just pop culture in general, what do you like to watch? What are, what are, what do you do for—

Denny Liu [36:56]

Just decompress. We just watched the first 3 episodes of the Boys, which is insane but also visually amazing.

Christian Solorzano [37:05]

The Voice or the Boys?

Denny Liu [37:07]

The Boys. Okay, the superhero one on Amazon Prime. And then we just watched Baby Reindeer as well.

Christian Solorzano [37:15]

I know we're almost at the hour, but what are some of the ways that people could get a hold of you? Maybe are there any projects that you're up to?

Denny Liu [37:25]

I don't really have anything in the pipeline. I have a potential brief for Goodles coming up again, so I don't know what that is. In general, I think I'm at this point in my career where I'm looking to pass down knowledge to some of the younger designers in the community. So if anyone's listening that's a student or wants a portfolio review, feel free to reach out.

Christian Solorzano [37:48]

What would be a piece of advice that you would probably give your younger self As a designer? Yeah, or just life in general. What's something that you wish you could tell young Denny?

Denny Liu [37:59]

Learn finances.

Christian Solorzano [38:01]

Learn finances.

Denny Liu [38:02]

Learn how to, learn how to invest in stocks. And not just, not just find the best font, be financially literate. I mean, I look back and I wish they taught courses on how to pitch how to set up a deck, how to work with, how to think strategically, those are the things that I feel like I missed. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [38:29]

Like thinking holistically about the entire design process.

Denny Liu [38:35]

Yeah, the business of design and not just the aesthetics.

Christian Solorzano [38:39]

Yeah, because one of my biggest complaints is always when, as a designer, if you're working with, let's say, on a bigger team, you just get lumped into like a little fraction of the project and everything's already been decided. You don't— you just do your thing and then you disappear, you get pulled off.

And you don't get exposure to the way that the project was sold, the deliverables, its impact, et cetera. So I like that you mentioned that. And it took me, took me years to even realize that there is so much to like picking the fonts.

Denny Liu [39:14]

And I think that's what makes— so at work I'm very quiet, outside of work at happy hour, I'm perfectly fine. But I think that's kind of what was missing. And that's what makes a lot of designers not able to find their voice in a room with, other, strategists, copywriters, we tend to let other people talk over us and, I think we also kind of understand that design is kind of the tail end, of a project.

Christian Solorzano [39:44]

I like that. And I hope that, definitely for people that are listening, please, we'll put your contact information in the description for this episode. But yeah, it would be cool if people could reach out and ask for feedback because it's— we just did our portfolio review this past— the Chicago Graphic Design Club, we did our first portfolio review this past weekend.

And it was great. So we'll definitely keep you in mind for the next one that we do, cuz it would be cool to have you there as a reviewer.

Denny Liu [40:14]

Yes, please. I saw that a little bit late cuz I wanted to reach out to apply to see if I could do it. But—

Christian Solorzano [40:20]

Yeah, we're planning on doing it perhaps like twice a year. So maybe sometime like before the year's over, we'll do another one. Cuz it's like just one of those things where there, there's a lot of, I feel like there's a lot of like needs in our community, whether it's someone wanting to get some feedback on their portfolio or someone wanting to have a conversation about an experience or whatever. So that's kind of the mission of this show. So thank you for agreeing to speak with us.

Denny Liu [40:48]

Yeah, no, thank you for setting this up.

Christian Solorzano [40:50]

Awesome. Any parting words before we, before we drop here? Words of wisdom?

Denny Liu [40:55]

Nah, I'm all out.

Christian Solorzano [40:57]

Cool, man. Well, thanks so much. Like I said, we'll Drop all the stuff in the description for the episode. And we always like to keep the door open. So if in the future, if there's any opportunity to do some kind of collaboration, that's always a possibility for the listener and also for you. We're going to be, we just announced our call for designers for our second issue of our publication. That's open to everyone to submit an idea to be featured in our print publication.

So hopefully you can submit something.

Denny Liu [41:28]

Awesome. Love to.

Christian Solorzano [41:30]

All right, man. Well, I Have a good day and we'll chat soon.

Denny Liu [41:33]

All right, thank you so much, Christian.

Christian Solorzano [41:35]

As usual, thank you for sticking around until the end. I hope that you found that conversation inspiring. And to learn more about the Chicago Graphic Design Club, just look us up online, www.chicagographicdesign.club. Talk to you soon. Goodbye.