Christian Solorzano [00:05]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a podcast by the Chicago Graphic Design Club dedicated to bringing you conversations with Chicago's creative leaders. On this podcast, we'll explore the craft, theory, and practice of graphic design, plus discuss bold ideas that push the boundaries of what's possible and ways in which we can create a more thoughtful and inclusive community. To learn more about us, visit our website at www.chicagographicdesign.club or find us on social media. Special thanks to the Chicago band Eighties Slang for our theme music.

Jay Byrnes [00:44]

So hello, today I'm your host, Christian Solorzano.

Christian Solorzano [00:58]

Hey guys. Today's guest is Jay Byrnes. For over 2 decades, Jay has worn the hats of entrepreneur, artist, and visual designer. In 2010, he founded Forthas King, a Chicago-based streetwear brand, and in 2003, he founded his studio, Adapt Studio, where he's collaborated with companies such as Avondale Type Co. Chicago Athetlic Hotel, the Museum of Science and Industry, Google, and Nature Valley. Most recently, he's a director of brand at Minimal, described as a product development and brand incubation agency. So welcome to the show.

Jay Byrnes [01:36]

Thanks for having me, guys.

Christian Solorzano [01:38]

So Jay, it's very cold in Chicago, and I want to know how the Chicago cold weather has been treating you lately.

Jay Byrnes [01:48]

Man, I've lived here my whole life, and I don't feel like you ever really get like comfortable with this weather. However, I will say this year has been fairly mild, and I think today we're supposed to reach 40, so we're planning to get the family outside a little bit and run around.

Christian Solorzano [02:05]

Yeah. And how long have you been in Chicago for?

Jay Byrnes [02:08]

Well, I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, so in the western suburbs, a town called Wheaton, and then probably lived here for, just over 20 years in the city, kind of different parts of the city. When I came out of school, I was living up north towards the university up there off the Thorndale stop. And then I kind of started to move further down kind of near Wrigleyville. And then we ended up right now where we are.

We're in West Town, which is, which is a spot that we really love, like Ukrainian Village, West Town area.

Christian Solorzano [02:43]

Excellent. And what was your introduction to graphic design? How'd you get into design?

Jay Byrnes [02:51]

Oh, I mean, my story is probably not that dissimilar from other people, but, I've always, as a kid, I always loved to draw. So, and play with like characters and things like that. So, that my parents really helped nurture that part of my skill set, just encouraged me to always be creative and draw and follow whatever passion I had.

At the same time, I think when it was when it was college time, getting to the next level of education, they were like, you need to, you have to find a way to make money. You can't just be like a starving artist. So graphic design was kind of the compromise for that, trying to find a way to use my creativity and love for art and combine that with something that was more business focused. And where did you go to school again?

I went to school at University of Kansas, which is in Lawrence. They have a pretty good art school there. I didn't want something that was hyper-focused on art because I enjoyed, lots of different things. Not that you couldn't get this at a small school, but I love basketball and Kansas has a really great basketball team.

I think, growing up here in Chicago in the '80s and '90s, immersed in the Michael Jordan era, that was a huge part of my life. So basketball I've always loved and never been amazing at, but it's always been a really fun outlet for me.

Christian Solorzano [04:18]

What were some of the what was some of the inspiration that you were surrounded by as a, as a kid or just growing up?

Jay Byrnes [04:25]

Yeah I always, like I said, I was drawing all the time when I was a kid. The earliest memories that I can remember is and I always, and I always love to like collect things too, which is kind of strange, but Garfield books were one of those things. So I had like 50, my parents, my parents actually more recently have, started to retire and they moved out of the house that we grew up as a kid.

And so they started to dump all this stuff on me, right? And so I got like 50 Garfield books. But that was one thing that kind of came back to me is like I would sit there and I would just, not only would I read the books, but then I would also just like start out by tracing and then also by just like seeing what other, what I could draw from freehand. And that's kind of how I started learning to draw.

So Garfield books were a big one, obviously all the like Sunday morning cartoons, whether it's like Ninja Turtles or He-Man, things like that were part of my growing up, then kind of going from there, it transitioned into like video games, right? Nintendo, Super Nintendo that, I remember, my parents would probably kill me, but I remember days where we would just sit on the Nintendo like all day, right? And just play like Super Mario or Zelda or Something like that.

So those were other things that I think probably indirectly inspired me and inspire what I'm doing today. The Legos, I'm sure you guys all, Legos was a huge thing too. It just like allowed me to like create these worlds and use my imagination. Yeah, I feel like subconsciously a lot of things help us like where to be where we're at right now. Yeah, exactly.

So early on in your career or early on in the field as like a young student what were the stuff that they taught you in school? Was it actually helpful to you or was it all just BS? Oh, none of it's BS. But if you ask me, what things do I use from school in my real world career? It's like probably like light years apart, right?

Christian Solorzano [06:36]

Right.

Jay Byrnes [06:36]

Really, your real education starts when you start doing the real stuff and get out into your first job. But I still remember, I can't, I don't know if you guys learned this kind of stuff too, but there were like some foundational things that still, I'll think back to, if I'm stuck, like the one thing that I'm thinking of is like the Gestalt principles.

It's like, those are like contrast and, position and like different sort of foundational aspects of design that, yeah, that we probably do, like you said, like subconsciously already. But if you're stuck, like it's a good thing to kind of reference back to get ideas going.

Christian Solorzano [07:18]

Yeah, it's interesting how those foundational learning techniques become like muscle memory. And then, because I, I've been forced to talk about them lately because I'm teaching and I had to brush up on them because you sort of forget what they are, but intrinsically, you know what they are because you do them every day without labeling them or calling them what they are. So I always find that interesting, like just going back to the basics and sort of like grounding yourself in some of that stuff.

Jay Byrnes [07:51]

Yeah, I think like the same, you could say the same about like just general like hierarchy too. Kind of sometimes do that just automatically, but really starting to analyze that and how can you like flip things. And I think it helps with like iteration.

Christian Solorzano [08:06]

Yeah. And when you were, when you were in school, when you were, early in your career, did you have like a vision of what you wanted to do or were you sort of just like learning on the go or was there like this ultimate plan?

Jay Byrnes [08:18]

Oh man. When I was going through school, we didn't actually, and I don't know what happens today. I assume there's some integration of technology, but that was like, they're really like, especially in the first few years, there wasn't, it was, everything was like hands-on. There wasn't really any, you're not learning Photoshop or InDesign or any, I don't even know, InDesign wasn't even out yet. It was like QuarkXPress or something else, so yeah, it was all about the phone.

But I think like, as we got to like the senior year, that's when, we had the computer lab. We were kind of like more immersed in the computer lab. I think I was telling you earlier, Christian, like the internet just started getting big, and I started to find these outlets that really started to click for me. And one, I don't even— I was— I searched it the other day because I was like, I don't even know if this is still around.

But there was this website that I loved that a lot of us referenced. It was called like Design is Kinky, and it was like it sounds weird, but it was really like a great outlet that kind of like showed me a lot of the things that I had no idea existed. So, like people like Shepard Fairey and Dave Kinsey, these guys started like a, they were artists first, which I felt like that's who I was. And then they started design studios.

So I could really relate to that, like having that dual side because I didn't, I hadn't seen a lot. I felt like you're either one or the other. Like there weren't many examples. There probably were a lot of things going on, but the internet helped. Sort of bring that clarity to me. Oh my gosh, these guys started a studio called Black Market, and they were doing work for like all the like surf and streetwear and skate brands.

And I was like, that's what I want to do.

Christian Solorzano [10:01]

Yeah, I remember when I was growing up as well, there was a website called DeviantArt. And that was one of the places where like I would publish some of my graphic design stuff. And surprisingly, my profile is still up and it's, never share that link with anyone because it's like really embarrassing.

But I think like the last, the last time that I was on, it shows like your last online or like last activity, it's something like, I think like 16 years, which is just crazy to think about.

Jay Byrnes [10:36]

That's wild.

Christian Solorzano [10:37]

But I remember just go, like the internet was just such a Such a great place to learn so many things because you were connected with like everyone in the world and it sort of allowed you to get out of your little bubble, your comfort zone.

Jay Byrnes [10:51]

Exactly. It was like endless inspiration. Personally.

Christian Solorzano [10:55]

Yeah. So you, so you did create a brand, Forthas King, and it's described as a Chicago streetwear brand. And I really love the name.

Jay Byrnes [11:07]

You—

Christian Solorzano [11:08]

There's a— there's an explanation that you wrote about the name, and it, and it's, and it ties it back to like the thing that we hear as a, as a child. First is the worst, second is the best, third is the one with the treasure chest, fourth is king, fifth is queen, sixth is the one with the— in the washing machine. And I love that you went with Fourth is King because I think everyone always wanted to be first, right?

Jay Byrnes [11:33]

Right.

Christian Solorzano [11:33]

And you're sort of, Highlighting that, 4th is also cool. So could you talk a little bit about that, how that came to be and the inspiration behind that?

Jay Byrnes [11:45]

Yeah. Yeah. There's also like a bit of narcissism in this because, so my full name is James Byrnes IV. So it's not, and that was, I think your intent, like that meaning was more in line with what I was thinking. It was never like supposed to be like, I'm the king of the world or whatever. But yeah, I wanted, I didn't wanna name like the company after me exactly. And I wanted something that kind of still felt like me.

At the same time, I came across that line and I really connected with it because I felt like, especially being in Chicago, I mean, a lot of us feel this way. I think it's starting, the landscape is starting to change, but Chicago always feels like an underdog, right? And so, you can still be awesome and not be seen as the first or the second, right? I think Chicago is great and there's a lot of beautiful art coming out of here.

So that's kind of where that, what that was inspired by. And Fourth is King started out as a passion project. Is that, is that right? Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [12:49]

Initially.

Jay Byrnes [12:49]

Yeah. So how was the early goings of the brand for you? Yeah. So I think, I was telling you guys a little bit about like what things were inspiring me at the time, towards the end of school and coming out of school. And I was like, man, and this is probably a lot of people, right? They want to do like the music posters. They want to do the work for, Nike and the sportswear brands. And at the time, I was super inspired by like Burton.

Burton was just they had these amazing catalogs and they were using like really awesome production techniques on their boards. And they were doing these collaborations with artists all the time. And I was just like thumbing through that thing, soaking it up, look, and then we had the internet so I could like find an artist and look more at them and see what they were doing, get deeper into it.

So all that stuff being said, I was like, I started to get a little frustrated when like I tried to reach out to people and make connections and couldn't really get anything going. So I was like, what do I need to wait around for to have this, get done, like to be able to do this on my— I can just get started right now. Like I can do this on my own.

And so that was kind of the thought is like, let's get this thing going, do what exactly the types of things I would want to do. Like you said, a passion project, the things that I'm not able to kind of like explore or release within my normal day job. This is my opportunity to do that, not only for my own design, but to like Collaborate with other artists that inspire me. And with passion projects, we usually work on passion projects after our 9 to 5s.

How were you able to keep that fire going? Because, a lot of us are kind of burnt out after working a long day. So how were you able to do it? Yeah I don't think it was very difficult for me actually. Like at the time, I didn't have a family and kids that were a priority. It was, I was probably maybe was starting to date my wife at the time, but I had time to give.

And, I think the things that we all really care about, that's where we put our energy. So for me, yeah, it was kind of a no-brainer. I think, doing that stuff actually in a weird way, gives me more energy because I care about it so much. And when I'm getting out there and Meeting other people and being a part of the community. I think that also brings extra energy that— Yeah, that excitement about it, right? Exactly.

That could normally like wear you down maybe in a normal day job.

Christian Solorzano [15:30]

I love, I love hearing stories like that because I agree with you. I think one of the, one of the fascinating things about having a computer and now just having so much technology is that you don't really need to ask anyone for permission to like get started on something. And I just love, I think over the past, since the pandemic, so many projects have been born out of like necessity and like passion and desire. And it's awesome.

I admire that so much because yes, it is hard, but I think there's something to be said about just noticing that there's like a gap or that there's something that's like missing in the world that you feel like you need to put out there. So I really love that. And where does Forthas King stand today?

Jay Byrnes [16:23]

Well, we're starting to— you're making me sad now, Christian, because, it's kind of been winding down. I had to— I basically like decided it was time to shut it down.

I still have some inventory, so I might have like, fairly soon in the upcoming months, kind of like a last sale kind of deal. But for now, I think with where I'm at, I have a family that's a priority to me, 3 little kids that are, 3, 5, and 7. We've got a dog also and a wife and like to do, yeah, just, I mean, that was such a huge part of my life and I learned so much from it.

There's a lot of hustle involved in that too. So I just don't have the time to give to it anymore.

Christian Solorzano [17:06]

Definitely.

Jay Byrnes [17:07]

Yeah, right. I just don't have the time to give to it anymore. I still love streetwear and I love just kind of seeing what's happening in our community. But yeah, I just can't keep it going as much. I integrated into like other things that I'm doing. I think the job that I have now more than any other job allows, at minimal, allows for like a lot of creative flexibility. Some of that like entrepreneurship that I had, like we now use that to help other businesses.

So I can bring some of that knowledge and often some of that like culture and that streetwear stuff that I learned. And even just like the people that I met from like a production standpoint, like how to get like swag made and different production techniques, whether it's like, appliqué or embroidery or chain stitch or screen printing, like all that knowledge that I learned. From that experience still gets used just in a different way.

Christian Solorzano [18:03]

Yeah, definitely. But, and then, and then I do also want to talk about your studio because you founded a studio, Adapt Studio.

And that, and that's been around for some time. And that was in— you founded that in the year 2003. And you've collaborated with a ton of clients throughout that, throughout the past 2 decades or so. So what was the motivation behind starting your own studio? Because it seems like you're always, you're starting your own things and I love that. So could you talk a little bit about that?

Jay Byrnes [18:38]

Yeah, I think it's very similar to the story I was telling you about, Forth is King, which is like, I'm not gonna sit and wait around to, why do I need to work for someone else and do the things that I want to do? I can do that right now. So, also I was, I per— we call it like permalancing, right? Like I was freelancing with a smaller studio for a long time by choice, both sides by choice.

There was plenty of work there, but also just like as a, legal requirement, it helps to have a business set up for that. And so some of that came from that. Other parts was just like allowed me to do other projects that maybe I wouldn't have done in a normal like design situation, things that might be more Art related. I do like commission murals and commission paintings. So just getting involved in other projects that I, that I care about.

Yeah, I was looking sorry, I was looking at your website and I saw murals under your capabilities. I don't think I've ever seen that before. And it like kind of like stood out to me. I was like, murals. So I wanted to ask you about that. Like a studio, like they just commission you to do murals all the time or not all the time, but just whenever. People ask.

Yeah, I mean, it really just depends what situation I'm coming— like, unfortunately, I don't have 100%, if I could, right, I might at least give like 50% of my time to art. My situation right now doesn't really allow for that because it takes me a long time to do some of that work. So, yeah, but, I used to be like very active in like doing pop-up shops and street festivals, things of that nature.

And so alongside some of the streetwear stuff, I would kind of present my artwork too. And so people would buy prints, they would buy original work, and occasionally they would want to have commissioned pieces too. So I met a lot of really cool people just from being out there and doing that. And so in response to your question about murals, yeah, every once in a while there'll be like it could be an outdoor or an indoor mural.

A lot of times it's like inside of an office or something. But I tend to approach that also a little bit similar to how I might approach things from a design standpoint where like I give, come up with a couple different ideas and we sort of collaborate together to get them something that they love. Nice.

Christian Solorzano [21:15]

Yeah. So one of the questions that I always like to ask our guests, and it looks like a lot of your a lot of your projects, not just in your 9 to 5, but also your extracurricular things, a lot of them are about— they involve community and they involve a lot of collaboration. So could you talk a little bit about what community means to you? Because I, I'm always fascinated to hear people's answers because they're always, they're always, they're always slightly different.

So what does community mean to you, and how has the meaning of community shifted over the, over the past Over the past few years?

Jay Byrnes [21:49]

Man, that's a great question. There's obviously different types of community, but I think it's just like having a group of people that have maybe share like similar beliefs and value system to you that especially like in the creative community, like having people that can support that you can sort of build things together that you might not be able to do on your own, right? I feel like sometimes some of the strongest ideas come from group settings.

So, I think especially like during the pandemic, we probably learned that like, yeah, you're stuck in your house. The collaboration is different there. But I think even like in-person collaboration is kind of the best, the best that you can do.

Christian Solorzano [22:38]

Yeah. And what about, are there any favorite things about Chicago specifically that stand out to you when it comes to the design community in Chicago?

Jay Byrnes [22:49]

Things that stand out?

Christian Solorzano [22:52]

Or like any favorite things or like just what are your thoughts overall on the Chicago design community?

Jay Byrnes [22:59]

Yeah, I mean, I think, groups like yours, there's, Tanner has his group for the Design Museum. I think there's outlets there. There's also like, I— this is pretty cool. I can't even remember how long this might have been. 15— it's over 10 years ago. There's the Mars community down in Bridgeport with Co-Prosperity Sphere. We had a little group down there, that I got involved in. There was probably like 5 to 10 people, all from different art backgrounds.

We got together like once, I don't know if it was once every 2 weeks or something like that, just like shared what we were working on. And it was so interesting because everybody came from such a different perspective. And it was just a really great like learning experience to see like how you could take things from what other people were doing and try to apply them to your situation.

It was also really nice because that group in particular, they brought in, some really like more established artists within the Chicago scene that could kind of, I mean, they weren't like full mentors, but kind of give us like a little bit of a rundown of what their journey was. And I, and that was just, that opened my eyes a lot too.

I'm a real big fan of like Cody Hudson and some of those, that scene again, because they kind of do it across so many different things, right? They're artists, they're designers. They don't really need to like fit into that category, right? And I kind of can, I feel like I relate to that a little bit.

Christian Solorzano [24:37]

Yeah. And fast forward to today. So for a little over a year now, you've been working at Minimal and you came from Pivot and you were there for, I believe, 4 years. From 2018 to 2022. So I want to hear about the work that you're doing today at Minimal and also a little bit about your like most recent like career trajectory as it relates to the transition of going from Pivot into Minimal. Like what were, what was some of the background there?

Jay Byrnes [25:10]

Yeah, I mean, both are really great places for different reasons. Pivot's been around for, I think we're there, we're over 30 years now. So they're obviously doing a lot of things really well.

And I learned a lot of stuff there about just like how to present work, how to, I think a lot of the business side and a lot of the like client relationships and how to, push different things, push different things to try to get the work to be better, but also push the client so that we have more impactful work on the business side. Was something that I kind of picked up there and it was time for me to leave.

But I think now it's like taking a lot of what I learned there, bringing it to Minimal where it's almost like, I mean, it's a clean slate, man. We have, corporate clients who, we do a lot of the creative consulting similar to what I was doing at Pivot. So it could be, again, this is where like, I don't know, I don't really believe in that thing. Like you have to be really good at one thing. That's not really my style.

So, we, from a deliverable standpoint, tackle everything from like the product to like everything surrounding the customer experience. So it could be like brand identity, it could be, website or digital experience or UI, UX and UI on the actual product or an app.

And so there's like the traditional consulting side of the creative, but then there's also these like self-incubated projects which like we have an idea and we like bring it to life and put it out in the world, kind of like, what we were talking about before. Let's, if we have a great idea, let's not be afraid to like take that and make it happen ourselves. And I love that about them, that this crew, right?

Like everything from the product to the branding, but then it's like we have engineers on staff. We know like supply chain and we know like all those troubles with manufacturing, like it's all figured. We have all the things we need to make successful businesses. So that's like the self-incubation part.

And then there's a part that kind of falls in the middle, which is like more where we're invested, it's venture partnership where we see people, startups that have great ideas and we want to be a part of that too. So we'll invest in their businesses, we'll get paid to do the work and kind of take it from there.

Christian Solorzano [27:42]

And I noticed that Minimal also makes watches, which—

Jay Byrnes [27:49]

Yeah, you'd have to talk to my boss a little bit more about that. That's more of his passion, Scott Wilson. But yeah, they came out with some watches. I think that it's fairly— it's been a while since we've come out with something new like that. But yeah, they did do their own watch brand.

Christian Solorzano [28:10]

Yeah. And a lot of our listeners, well, a good amount of our listeners are often people like students or people entering the field. And I like to ask the question for anyone that's, in a design leadership role, when hiring talent, what sort of characteristics or what makes someone stand out to Minimal?

Jay Byrnes [28:35]

So funny. I'm gonna sound like an old geezer, I think talent, is great, right? That's the thing that you, notice immediately, right? You're like, wow, this person has just got really polished work, or, they have such a great sense of taste. But, beyond that, there are just, a lot of intangibles and soft skills. That are really important, just like that hustle aspect. I think some of us have, I've seen both sides of the coin.

So I think like having, for example, we have an internship program and when someone comes in and they're, it's tough, right? Like our business, I think that's one thing I learned at Pivot as well as here is just like there's a lot of ambiguity, right? Like people don't always— Yeah. Know what they want. You don't always have like clear answers or direction on how to move forward. And we have to try to remove that barrier and not let that be something that holds us back.

And so I think with some of the, younger talent, like that can be a real tough spot, like a real challenge. But some of the ones that I've seen be more successful, kind of, they'll, if they don't have all the information, they'll be really curious and they'll ask questions, right? And they'll try to figure out, get enough information to move forward, or they'll try to make some assumptions and then that'll allow them to move things forward but not get intimidated by that process.

So I think just like that hustle that, I always am with design, like I'm a big fan of just like seeing iteration. Show me your thinking. I know like a lot of times At least for me, it was like I was afraid to show all that other trash that I had on the side. I just wanted to show you like the goal, that one awesome idea that I had.

But I want to see all the trash because like, especially from doing collaboration, I know like that some people find like things in my trash that I wouldn't see like as valuable. And then that's where the great ideas can come from.

Christian Solorzano [30:38]

And have you noticed the, what observations or things have you noticed about like just the design discipline over time? Because I think our industry changes so rapidly. And it's always interesting to see, to hear people's like, perspective on not just how the role of a designer has shifted, but also like the industry as a whole and sort of like the expectations that new clients have or people have today. So what would have been some of the things that have stood out to you?

Jay Byrnes [31:13]

Well, I mean, there's a pretty obvious one that stares us in the face now, which is AI, right?

Christian Solorzano [31:18]

Yeah.

Jay Byrnes [31:19]

That's like a constant topic of discussion in our office and with some other like creative groups that we like collaborate with, like what is that going to become? And, starting to just like explore it and figure out, for me personally, my perspective is it's a tool. It's another tool. It helps you iterate quickly.

You can get some really strong ideas, but I think there's still like a level of curation and a level of like things that have to happen outside of that to make the idea even better and more real. But it's clear that there's something there that people have been able to do things there that allow, that maybe their skill set wouldn't allow them to do otherwise.

And selfishly, I've started to use it for, I'm kind of weak in copywriting. So, it's really helped me, as far as, just getting some things started. I think I'm not a bad copywriter, but, I think often the hardest part is just getting started, right? And so getting your initial thoughts and getting a bunch of ideation out there, it helps with that. And then you can start to hopefully that, just spirals and gets you going. Yeah. AI is massive.

I heard of this different app where it helps you like write papers. So it's like becoming a big thing within like schools where students are just plagiarizing. It's not plagiarizing actually. It's like you give it like a theme or whatever and it just like goes on its own. Oh yeah. Which is kind of nuts. Yeah, dude. I don't even know what to say. Yeah. It's like really like creating some interesting conversation, like what, it's almost like, what is art? The lines are blurred now.

What's, what is copyrightable? What's authentic? What's, I mean, we, in some cases, we're all kind of, I kind of feel like no idea is completely original, right? Everything comes from somewhere.

So, I mean, I just, I encourage people to use it and figure out how they can make something new out of it. It could be more like, DJing is to music. You're mixing songs together, right? Some are old, some are new. You're combining things. Maybe it's not completely original, but at the end you make something new out of it. So. Right. And then there's, you got the people that are like, this is going, this is going to overtake like art and all that.

And, I get it. I think As being especially like from being an artist. Yeah, I mean, it's frustrating that like you can just like spit a couple words out and then you get this like beautiful thing.

But it's also, I find a difference still in, while the technology stuff is awesome and it's so like where we're headed, there's still like this part of me and I think hopefully a part of society that still likes that in person, that likes the things that they can touch and hold. And that's a different experience altogether.

Christian Solorzano [34:24]

Yeah. One of the things that— so I was reading a book from the 1800s and it was, it was criticizing the printing press and it was saying that the printing press was gonna be like the death of books. And I think it's interesting because I think a lot of people are saying that today about AI, that AI is gonna be like the death of so many things.

Jay Byrnes [34:48]

Right. Is it gonna replace like the workforce?

Christian Solorzano [34:50]

Yeah.

Jay Byrnes [34:52]

But I don't think so, right? Like the things I read are like, and we've actually built some of these, helped to design some of this stuff at Minimal. Like one of the things that I'm thinking of is like this, it was used in like the, it's being used in like places like White Castle, like fast food restaurants.

And it like helps, basically like take the fries out and like deep fry them or like, takes the wings out of the, out of the fridge and freezer and puts them, deep fries those and takes them out and gets them ready. From what I've read, most of the people that are doing those jobs don't want to do that anyways. It's not replacing them.

It's allowing them to focus on other things that are more, customer service or other things that might be more valuable to their skill set.

Christian Solorzano [35:36]

Yeah, for sure. And I also think that with the rise of a lot of automation in our industry, I often wonder what the like, what are, what's, what are going to be, what are going to be the skills that are going to differentiate, a designer from another? Because if all of a sudden everyone could create really beautiful work super quick, what's going to be, what's going to be the thing that like makes someone stand out from other people?

And I guess I want to ask you that question. Are there any attributes or skills you think are going to be even more important As time goes by?

Jay Byrnes [36:14]

Yeah, I mean, I still think like some of those things that I told you before, right? I think that like hunger, that sort of, I mean, these are a lot of the things that I look for too in people that we hire is just like not being afraid of ambiguity, not being like afraid in general of technology and trying new things. We have, there's a wonderful designer that I hired, and, she had never really done like much motion or video work before.

She knew enough, but like she hadn't really had the chance to like dig in. And so we used a project to kind of like allow her to do that. And I think, when you take something real, like a real situation, and it forces you to like learn how to get it done, and you're not afraid of that, I mean, it's killer. The results were great. And, it empowered her. And I think everyone should have that attitude.

If we can give you the time and space to learn something you shouldn't be afraid of anything. I mean, all these sort of, again, they're all sort of like tools that allow us to make our creative better. Yeah, I think, I think that's awesome that you guys give like the time and space for them to learn something new versus like, hey, here's this hot project. You have to learn this in like a day or 2. Good luck. Yeah.

Which is, which is what happens a lot of the time. It's like unrealistic, right? I mean, I think that's a lot of my thing. And I think a lot of the things that maybe I do like just naturally is with communication and management. I think it's really important to allow, a, for that space. Also just we're all humans. We have to like treat each other that way. The expectations have to be realistic.

Maybe we can't do the full thing this time, but can we give the client a little bit of what they want? But we don't have to say no.

So yeah, and I think just again, people that, back to the role of the designer, people that are curious and ask questions and are always kind of, again, you might be asked to do this website, or ask to just do the product, but asking questions that help you understand the full experience. That's what, that's what we're after, right? We wanna make sure that end-to-end experience all matches up to what you want it to be.

Because like, if you have only one piece of that that's doing the job and the others don't, then it doesn't work.

Christian Solorzano [38:44]

So looking at the other side, so we're talking about, the role of like the designer that's on the ground doing the work. What about, what about leadership? Is there anything from the leadership's point of view that you think more leaders need to be aware of or do more of? Because I think, I think a big— what makes a big difference is sometimes, like Jaime said, like creating that space, that safe space to explore and to play and to take risks and to fail.

So, and I mean, I've been on both sides of the spectrum where I've experienced those spaces of, all right, Christian, you're free to sort of make mistakes and we're here to support you. And I've also been on the other side where it's like, come to my office and you're in trouble. So what do you, what specifically do you, do you think makes a work a good culture to work in? I mean, and how could you create that culture?

What's something for anyone that's listening that maybe has their own studio? What do you, what are some tips or tricks that you employ?

Jay Byrnes [40:04]

Yeah, I mean, number one, right, is like building trust with people. And so how do you do that? That's like the number one question. And it's not always the same for everybody, but I think, having open communication, caring about, your coworkers as real or employees or whatever as real people, like get to know them, find out what makes them, passionate, what makes them, what makes them tick, what things they like to do outside of the job.

And yeah, that sort of caring and that empathy and understanding, like being there for them if they need help with something. Being a coach when you need to be a coach and then being stepping in and being the player, the sort of player coach model, step in and help do the work when you need to do the work. I don't ask anything of my team that I wouldn't do myself. So I always find that to be, even at minimal, right?

Scott is the owner and the chief creative officer. He's in there, he's doing the work every day. Right? He actually says, if he could go back and be an intern, that's what he would do because he just wants to do the work. So, yeah, I think, empathy, building trust, and inspiring people to try new things, like we said, inspiring them in general.

It's easy to— and I don't always do a great job of this, but, you get sucked in sort of like this flow of just doing the projects, but make sure you step out, take time to talk about like what else is going on in design or maybe outside of design that you think is awesome and cool and makes you, makes you passionate and inspired. Those things can influence your work and they might actually influence your coworkers' work too.

Christian Solorzano [41:56]

Definitely.

Jay Byrnes [41:58]

Different styles of working, right? Like in collaborating, like how can we Work better together. Don't be afraid to like, okay, we've always used Miro, so we have to use it forever, right? Try new things and see what's working. Yeah, that's something that we've been hearing a lot, like step outside of design, come back. It helps people, just reenergize, yourself, come back to whatever you're working on, just Have other interests, pretty much.

Christian Solorzano [42:31]

Yeah. And as far as just continuing on the topic of culture, and not just culture in the workplace, but what do you think makes culture just in general, like even design culture in Chicago? I've never asked this to anyone, but I'm thinking about it right now and talking with you. How does one make culture? What is culture? How does one contribute to culture? Because that's, as a design club, that's something that we're always subconsciously thinking of is how do we, how is our programming?

How is our podcast? How is our, even like our social media and the things that we publish, how is that contributing to the Chicago culture? And I don't think I've like been able to come up with an answer. So that's why I like to ask, like I'm asking you this question is, because maybe there's some, something that comes to mind for you.

Jay Byrnes [43:31]

No, I mean, it's kind of interchangeable with what we were talking about previously, which is community, right?

Christian Solorzano [43:36]

Yeah.

Jay Byrnes [43:37]

So I think like what's great is like you're putting this thing out there and, people can decide to join if they want to, but you have a group of people that come together and then share ideas and get inspired and learn new things. Like that's huge, right? Like just a lot of times it's hard to put yourself in the state of mind of being a student all the time, right? We should always be learning new stuff and sharing new information.

So I think the community part of that, maybe those are the same thing, culture and community, or maybe the culture comes out of the community. But yeah, you're bringing people together that start to form hopefully something special. And you don't really know what that's going to be, but it kind of reveals itself over time. Yeah, for sure.

Christian Solorzano [44:32]

So when you were working on your streetwear brand Forthas King, I noticed that you were— that you had some— there were some exhibitions, or like you were doing some, some— what would you call them, like pop-up shops?

Jay Byrnes [44:47]

Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [44:47]

Pop-up shows. That's the correct term.

And what was, what was the reception? Or like, what was the— like, I'm always very interested in design not only being something that appeals to other designers, but also to non-designers. And I think a big part of, a big part of even going back to what With all of this automation that's happening and how do you differentiate yourself as a designer? I think being able to speak about design to non-designers or to articulate your thoughts is like such a big skill.

And that's one of the things that sometimes comes up for me when I'm talking about like our podcast or like Design Club, when I'm like talking about it with like my parents and they don't really get it, but then when it clicks in their head, or like, they're like, all right, I kind of get what you're doing. To me, that's such a, such a victory because I'm like, all right, great. I'm like, someone under some, someone outside of my bubble, kind of understands what we're doing.

So throughout your experience with a lot of the stuff that you've been doing, how has, how has that relationship existed of, designer Creating things. Has there ever been any of that, reciprocity between design and non-designer, if that makes sense? I don't know if that question or anything I said right now makes sense.

Jay Byrnes [46:18]

Oh, what's the relationship there?

Christian Solorzano [46:20]

Yeah.

Jay Byrnes [46:20]

I mean, you kind of have a lot of things going into that. It's a deep question there. But yeah, I think when we were doing, Forth is King, it was about trying to find, the other thing, not only the design and the art thing. So popping up in like the design museum or an art gallery, but what are the other things that we and the people that enjoy our brand do? Do they go to specific music venues, or do they eat at specific restaurants?

And how can we, that's where, when we talk about culture, how can we, involve ourselves in other aspects of that to kind of help build additional community, right? Because, like you said, we're gonna hopefully grab some new eyes and ears from maybe a restaurant spot or a music venue that wouldn't maybe come to the art gallery or the design museum or things like that. And I think that helps not only grow your audience, but helps you like learn, meet new people.

It makes it keeps it like interesting, right? It keeps it fresh and exciting. And so I don't know if that answered your question at all.

Christian Solorzano [47:38]

Yeah, no, it does. And it comes from like this idea of, yes, Chicago sometimes is perceived as like the underdog in comparison to other major cities like New York or LA. And one of like these goals that I have is like, how can we make Chicago like appeal or look like a, like a hub of creativity that other people perhaps might want to move to? And sometimes it's appealing to the people that are not designers and so for example, like even this past week.

There, like someone I got a text message from a guy and his kid is thinking about studying graphic design. So he wanted to like connect with me to see if there's like anything I could explain about like the graphic design industry. And I think a big part of what we do as designers is sometimes, appealing or being inclusive of the people that perhaps don't fall within, certain labels, certain design labels. So that's sort of why I was asking that question.

Jay Byrnes [48:56]

Yeah, I think that's interesting, right? How can you not only navigate different aspects of different cultures, but also just remain approachable and inviting? Sometimes it's, if someone doesn't know anybody that's in the group already, it can be, I mean, for me it would be intimidating to just like put yourself out there and get in, get in there. So how do we make it as welcoming as possible for them once, if they make that step to come, to an event that we're doing or something?

Christian Solorzano [49:29]

Yeah.

Jay Byrnes [49:29]

Sure that they feel welcome and they can kind of be themselves and feel free to participate.

Christian Solorzano [49:37]

Yeah, because one of the things that I always notice is that design is at the intersection of just about everything, and it touches every single person in the world. And that's what I love so much about the Design Museum of Chicago, is that their programming is not just for designers, but it's for everyone. And I just love the way that they're able to communicate what they're doing and to put on exhibitions that aren't just for a specific audience.

So that's always like a challenge, I guess, like a mental challenge for me is like, it's like this added layer of, it's like a filter that I try to put my things through. It's like, well, this makes sense to like these archetypes that I have in my mind.

Jay Byrnes [50:26]

Yeah, for sure. And yeah, I mean, that's always a challenge, right? Like even with just clients in general, how do you Try to explain not only like what we're doing, solutions, but like why we're doing it and like how is that going to hopefully make an impact on your business or your organization or what you're doing, right? Like we have to communicate that value. We're not just making things pretty, right?

I mean, there's thought that goes behind our work and the hope is to Create a specific outcome.

Christian Solorzano [51:03]

For sure. Got it. So we're almost at time, but I do, I do want to ask you a non-design related question, just Chicago in general. It's something we like, we like to ask our guests, but what about like outside of, outside of design? Like what other Chicago things are you into? What's inspiring you right now? Are there any shows that you're watching, any music you're listening to? Just sort of like, what's the world that you're— that's consuming you right now?

Jay Byrnes [51:38]

Oh man, my children consume me. So yeah, I get like these, yeah, like watching like Bluey, Disney's Bluey, like different cartoons and stuff, which actually, you know what, if you haven't checked out that show, it's actually quite entertaining for both children and adults. Yeah, I get things like that are, that are fun for me and the kids. But there's also, what other things do I consume at the moment?

I, if it wasn't this cold out, I ride my bike to work pretty much every day, which is a nice just like transition for me since I don't have a ton of time to exercise and so forth. Other things that, I mean, TV-wise. We, I think, just finished like White Lotus, if you guys watched that at all.

Trying to think of some others that stick out to me. We're— the things that are consuming my time, I'm working on— my wife and I are building like a garage behind our house that's gonna have a studio space above it, which is really fun for me because it, right now, as you see me, I'm in my bedroom, is which where I spent most of the pandemic between the office and my bedroom.

And so this gives me like a dedicated space for that creativity, which I've been, I've been like dying for, and I think is gonna be so fun for us to have that space. So, doing things like that, trying to figure out layout and how we wanna like finish it off. And I wanna take like, we listen to like a lot of vinyl records.

And so we're gonna take like our vinyl record collection and bring it out to the studio and have that like a little listening spot out there too.

Christian Solorzano [53:22]

Yeah. Do you have a favorite album or favorite albums?

Jay Byrnes [53:26]

My favorite music? Gosh, I kind of like go between like strangely between like oldies and like hip hop. So I love like Stevie Wonder is one of my favorites. And then some newer stuff that I like could be like, or it's not even new, like hip-hop stuff that I like is more like Common or a Tribe Called Quest. Q-Tip is, I like Q-Tip a lot. So things like that, that's kind of my jam. Not super hardcore, but yeah. I like it.

I'm looking forward to that studio tour whenever you push it. The tiny one? Oh, the tiny one. Yeah, it's like probably like 400 square feet with like, the roof that goes like this for like— but yeah, I'm down. We could do like a little studio tour.

Christian Solorzano [54:18]

That'll be awesome. So you're pretty, you're pretty responsive when it comes to communication and if anyone wants to get a hold of you, if anyone wants to learn more about what you do or what Minimal does, how can people get a hold of you? What's the best way?

Jay Byrnes [54:37]

Yeah, I would say if you guys are interested in learning more or you wanna meet for a cup of coffee or something, as long as I have time, my email is jay@minimal.com. Jay@minimal.com. I'm always down to like talk about design or if people wanna know like things about my journey or just need advice on how to navigate the design world.

I like to make space for that because I think mentorship is a, is a, I had people in my life and my career path that have helped me and I want to be able to provide that to others as well.

Christian Solorzano [55:12]

Yeah. And we'll include the, those links in our notes for this episode.

Jay Byrnes [55:18]

Sounds great.

Christian Solorzano [55:19]

And then, and then just to piggyback off that, so has there, what, what's a piece of advice that you received from one of your mentors that sort of continues to stick with you? Very deep question.

Jay Byrnes [55:33]

I'm gonna get hung up here. I don't know. I think like what we were talking about before, like some of the most, if you have ideas and stuff, it can be really intimidating, but just starting, like just start doing, like that's the best way. Don't let anything like kind of get you hung up. The best way, with 4th is king, let's do it. Like I made 3 t-shirts, started selling those 3 t-shirts, saved the money from those, put it back into the next run.

I mean, just start doing the thing, put it out into the world and if it doesn't work and it doesn't, and that's okay too, right? Like you were talking about fail fast. So I think the biggest thing is like that white sheet of paper can be super intimidating to get that first line on. But Don't overthink it and just do it, man. Just like Nike says, just do it.

Christian Solorzano [56:29]

So simple.

Jay Byrnes [56:30]

I know, right?

Christian Solorzano [56:32]

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Jay. This is wonderful. And thank you, Jaime, for joining. Of course, I'm looking forward to collaborating and doing stuff together because I love what you're doing and I love this conversation. So much. So thank you.

Jay Byrnes [56:49]

Yeah, thank you so much, Christian and Jaime, for giving me your time. This has been really great, and next time I won't do so much talking. I want to hear more about you guys. Sounds good.

Christian Solorzano [57:00]

Awesome. All right.