Christian Solorzano [00:33]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and on today's episode, I am delighted to share my conversation with designer and photographer Jeffrey Hitchens, and together we speak about the intersection of values mindfulness and design and their importance in creating work that is rooted in authenticity and empathy. He opens up about his journey from photojournalism in Long Beach, California, to finding his place in Chicago's creative landscape since 2011.

Jeffrey speaks about his meditation practice and how it helps him navigate the contradictions that we all face as designers. He shares with us how his deeply held values influence his design process and the way that he approaches storytelling through both visual communication and community building. We also explore his creative process and how he approaches his personal projects with intention and depth. Jeffrey shares his insights on finding joy through accepting all parts of himself Including the heavier emotions.

This is a great conversation about finding purpose and staying true to oneself. If you enjoy the show, please rate us wherever you listen and share. It helps us reach people in Chicago and beyond. Thank you so much for tuning in. Enjoy, and we'll talk to you soon. Good morning, Jeffrey. What's up?

Jeffrey Hitchens [02:18]

Good morning, Christian. Thank you for having me on the podcast today on this nice sunny Sunday.

Christian Solorzano [02:25]

And I know you're from Long Beach, California, so you haven't been in Chicago for all of your life.

Jeffrey Hitchens [02:31]

Yeah. So I actually moved to Chicago in 2011. It was October, I believe October 6th, 2011, I actually took the flight here. I actually came to Chicago after I'd finished school. So I went to California State University, Long Beach. Majored in journalism. It's a whole story, but I'll get into that. Thankfully, I was able to pay for school myself. So when I graduated, I didn't have any loans. I didn't really have anything to worry about in terms of that.

So I was able to try something a little different, which I think I went more on the extreme end because since I was paying for school myself, I was living with my parents, but I wanted to just really get out on my own and just try something. So I went on a month-long trip.

Miami reminded me too much of California. New York, I liked a lot, but I had a little bit of a, I guess you could say a cultural, or maybe not even cultural. Some things just didn't quite vibe with me when I was there. And Chicago felt like the best fit. That same year of October, I moved down to Chicago. Had no long-term place to live or to work. So my job was pretty much just looking for a job.

Christian Solorzano [03:42]

And your background is in, is in journalism. And then you're also a photographer and now you're a graphic designer. I'm curious about how journalism, which is about telling stories, and graphic design is about telling stories. Have you always been fascinated with storytelling? Can you share with us maybe some of the stories that made an impact on you?

Jeffrey Hitchens [04:08]

Stories that have had a direct impact on me pursuing journalism, 'cause I studied journalism, but it was really impactful for me with photojournalism, just seeing how stories were told in a way without some of the people that kind of changed things, but were retold in a way where you hear these really strong and impactful moments that actually happened.

Get these moments where you see people doing certain things that are kind of, that are revealing in terms of who they are as a person, but also the society that they're wearing that brand. So there was a lot of photography during civil rights and then Vietnam War that had an impact on me. Gordon Parks, obviously, Nick Ut, that you're not gonna get from someone just talking to you.

I feel like y'all most of, a lot of the time don't get from, politicians and that sort of thing, or speeches even sometimes. I've always found that really that always really drew my attention. So I think with that, just kind of, I always kind of gravitated toward that in some kind of way. And then the other, I wanna say music too, but I've never really been very good at music. That, those are the stories that really drew me into that.

Transitioning into more graphic design, I think for me it was, I know when I first came into graphic design, even though I did have training if you wanna call it that, I think I definitely came from it from the artistic side first. And then more of the structured part of it afterwards.

Christian Solorzano [05:35]

And it's difficult to— what I like about photojournalism, especially some of the photographers that you mentioned, is that it's difficult to argue against those photos. They're so— photography, I think today we've become a little bit desensitized to photography because we see so much of it. And the photography that we do see, it often depicts just very terrible things in the world. We've kind of— there's a fascination that I notice with just violence, for example. People, we're kind of numb to it.

It's no longer as impactful as, seeing a photograph in black and white from, 50, 60 years ago. Now we kind of see that on a regular basis. Today, what kind of stories are you interested in telling? I know that you have a fascination, or a lot of the work that you do is about community. It's about, dance in Chicago, or it's about the creative community. So what is it about people or community that matters to you? And I guess, yeah, what are you trying to document?

Jeffrey Hitchens [06:49]

I think about that a lot too, that there are a lot of stories being told. What am I saying that's really even different? What am I actually adding to the conversation, if I'm adding anything? 'Cause what I do know about myself is I don't really like talking necessarily or just saying something just for the sake of it, which I mean, that happens from time to time, but overall I prefer just kind of letting things go along and plugging in where I need to plug in.

But yeah, I think overall what I tend to always kind of gravitate to and speak to and focus on is like yeah. There's some level of struggle. Rather it be overcoming it or just trying to figure out how to hold the current state of that struggle. There's obviously joy within that. I'm not saying within life, but there, I feel like there's a lot that people deal with that is just being within that space.

Let me give an example actually that might be a bit more concrete and less abstract. So I've done the Tough Mudder, which for people that don't know, Tough Mudder is like a I think it's a 9-mile, 15-kilometer, something like that. I don't even want to call it a race, more like an obstacle course.

You have different obstacles you can do, but it's always nice that you have these moments where you see people, whether you're struggling or you see just someone else struggling, well, someone will stop what they're doing and then go back and help the person that's struggling. And whether that be that they help them get over the obstacle, they just stay there for everyone else for morale, speak up and everything like that. And that my hope is that it can inspire people to do those things themselves.

And also have hope. To have hope when they feel like they're at their lowest.

Christian Solorzano [08:21]

And where does that, for you, where does that come from? Have you always been this person that is interested in those kind of stories? When I first met you and getting to know you over the years, you're definitely very value-driven. I, there, there's a lot of intention behind even how you speak or how you communicate. And every value that you've shared hasn't surprised me as something that you would've chosen. And they're all very, they're all very Jeffrey.

And it's creating, the values are creating discovery, purpose, meaningful work, mindfulness, intimacy, and uniqueness, right?

Jeffrey Hitchens [09:08]

Yes.

Christian Solorzano [09:09]

Was there an experience that you had? What was that switch for you where you kind of decided that you were gonna live in a way that— and maybe there was no switch, maybe this is just who you've always been, and I think that that's probably the case, but just at what point did values come into mind in your life?

I think in the graphic design industry in particular, or the design industry or any industry, there's Sometimes it could be very transactional and it's kind of, it feels very for-profit. Like we're doing, I've talked with previous guests about this in the past about how often the dream of a graphic designer is to do commercial work or to wanna work for the big companies and to design a billboard and to do all this stuff that sells products.

In my opinion, lies to the public. About wanting to purchase something that they don't need or whatever. But there is honesty in your work and there's truth. Talk to us a little bit about what— a little bit about that.

Jeffrey Hitchens [10:18]

I want to say that I feel like I try to always strive for that. I don't know if I'm always successful at it. And I think sometimes a lot of my stress and anxiety comes from the contradictions that I feel like I have. I feel like everyone has on some level, but just in some cases it's just it's hard for me to sometimes step into a vulnerable state with people. It takes me a long time to get there sometimes.

But that for me is a big part of I feel like a contradiction in trying to, okay, accept that part of myself, but also trying to step into a process. Because if I can't, if I'm not doing it, obviously I can't tell people that or judge anyone for not doing it as well. Yeah. So that's an example of that. I think where it's really started with me is just in how I was raised. I had a— so I was raised Catholic and Christian. I'm neither.

Obviously you have your Sunday school and everything, so you get some of those values there. And then there was a lot that I got from that, those spaces that were helpful. Some other things not quite as much, which is why I kind of Moved into a different direction spiritually. But there was absolutely a lot that I got from that. That was in terms of just thinking about others, thinking about others' perspectives and not always coming from what you're experiencing and everything.

I think that was really the seed for it. And then just seeing that with, friends, seeing that with family members, some heavier things at a young age that made you kind of understand, well, I wouldn't say I understood at that point, but just knowing what it felt like. 'Cause I knew I, 'cause I'd known I'd been there in some different ways at a young age. And knowing that it's a heavy thing to carry.

Christian Solorzano [12:00]

And do you think as a result of, I like that you, I like that you bring up being able to exist in that, in that space of contradiction where it's possible that there could be true, 2 truths that may mean contradict one another. And do you, and do you, do you find that contradiction adds to, do you, do you feel like it creates some empathy or some space to maybe be less judgmental or to being able to exist in that, in that, in that in-between space?

Jeffrey Hitchens [12:37]

I do think it makes me more empathetic. But I feel like I notice it more when I acknowledge it within myself first. And obviously, that obviously takes a lot of self-work and self-awareness and all that sort of thing. But yeah, I notice when I can notice it in myself first, I can understand where people are coming from. And I do think that helps me in terms of, yeah, bringing it back to design.

It helps me in terms of how I am going to be creating something, because it's one thing to just say, hey, we want to get more, we want to get our sales up until we have more money, versus saying, hey, we want to actually connect with people so that they trust us in a certain way.

So that when, let's say we're in a situation like right now in the country, they'll still come to us because they know we're gonna provide something that they're not gonna get somewhere else. And then showing that through design.

Christian Solorzano [13:27]

Yeah. And that empathy, it's cool that we're talking about empathy because it's such a— it causes you to feel like very strong, like to have strong feelings. And sometimes those strong feelings don't feel so good. Yeah, I kind of consider it to be a kind of superpower. It could be a little bit crippling sometimes.

Jeffrey Hitchens [13:48]

Yeah, it yeah, there's definitely some complications with it.

Christian Solorzano [13:59]

Which is the contradiction right there in itself, is that you can experience the empathy, but sometimes, yeah, it's, it's—

Jeffrey Hitchens [14:08]

Yeah, I get it. I get it. Yeah, it can definitely be like an amazing thing once you learn it, but, you gotta, you just have to know, just like with any other emotions, where it's coming from, what's the motivation behind it. Because you can be empathetic, I think, in a way, because— but it's— I think empathy can also come from the wrong motivational places.

If you're dealing with your own guilt about something and it's connected to that, you're like, oh, I don't want this to happen again. It's like, that's not for you to decide.

Christian Solorzano [14:37]

Can you walk us through your values and maybe just briefly discuss what are your values is mindfulness. And you've spoken about having a meditation practice, and I have a meditation practice, and it's something that I, it's something that I know helps me in so many different ways. And you're a, you're a meditation practitioner. So talk us through, talk to us about mindfulness and how, why it's important to you. And why it's something that maybe other people should consider practicing as well.

Jeffrey Hitchens [15:17]

Yeah. Well, I guess speaking what my, for lack of a better word, journey was with mindfulness. I don't remember how I first learned about it, which I hate that I can't remember it right now, but yeah, I find it very helpful, especially in those moments where you feel overwhelmed by an emotion. If I'm being honest, I feel like I'm practicing, trying to practice it. Yeah, I'm definitely practicing in some way right now. Talking like, it makes me a little, it can make me sometimes uneasy.

And I feel like I'm, hey, this is how I'm feeling right now. You have those moments where you feel emotionally overwhelmed. Sometimes the immediate response is just kind of like to just get away as far away from that feeling. But you make, you can leave a situation, but that feeling may not leave you. Or it can be a situation, or it could be a thing where you're just constantly triggered by.

It could be a bit more helpful or skillful, if you wanna say, to stay, acknowledge where you're at that time, to stay within it within that moment. Consider then the other level that might be coming up for you. Why are you responding to that in that way?

Christian Solorzano [16:26]

Yeah.

Jeffrey Hitchens [16:27]

And what can you do about it? Or what can you just learn to accept about it? 'cause I feel like there's sometimes a space where you can Sometimes you just have to learn how to carry something, I feel like. And then once you get to that, that'll allow you to get to the next level of what you're trying to do.

And then sometimes you can like kind of more quickly in that moment be like, okay, now that I'm calm, let me just try and do this and this and that.

Christian Solorzano [16:48]

And as designers, one of our job is to elicit emotions. We want to provoke them to feel something, to have an emotion. I find it super useful to be able to Be familiar with one's own emotions because it, I think it just makes you a little bit more skilled at knowing, what strings to pull to create something that can connect with people?

Jeffrey Hitchens [17:15]

Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [17:15]

And sadly, I feel like the design industry, it's, it obviously, it deals with creativity and originality and by nature, I think most creatives are people that feel very strong and that are very passionate people and have big hearts. So mindfulness, for everyone that's listening, I think it's a great antidote to just being able to navigate. Yeah, just that tension that we sometimes like have to face.

Jeffrey Hitchens [17:48]

Yeah. I think for me also what is helpful for mindfulness is Perspective and getting a better idea of where I'm coming out with perspective, because I think as creatives that feel very strongly and have big emotions, and mindfulness has helped me in terms of like just being able to pull back in certain ways and change my perspective in certain ways.

So I guess business planning is it's sometimes can feel initially like you're putting yourself in a box, but like really it's giving you kind of like your own blueprint for how you actually want to do things because you think about it like. How often do creatives get stuck in this web of ideas that just kind of goes and goes and goes and goes and goes?

It allows you a situation where you're creating and that can still feel a little overwhelming, but then you can kind of like take your ideas and put them, funnel them a little bit. And I think even you had mentioned something when you were talking to I forget who you say you were talking to, and you were talking about having different ideas, like different ideas at once, always trying to do too much at the same time.

And then they had mentioned something like, the people that need to be doing certain ideas, like you can make connections so you have certain ideas that person can execute on certain ways that you aren't already able to execute on. And I think that's another way of like why the Chicago Graphic Design Club exists. It's like when you have these moments where it's like, well, I need to do this work, but I don't have time to like figure out these other things.

It's like, well, you build a community so you can try and execute on things that you're not as good at, that someone just has more experience at 'cause they spend more time on it. Yeah, that's— I feel like that's something I have to remind myself of, that both those things, there's certain different ways you can execute based on the connections you have and meeting people and having different experiences and opening up.

And then also, the idea of, having, let's say, basic blueprint of a plan, because so you're not limiting yourself too much based on just, what you're— who you are, you are— can give you enough direction to make sure that you know where you want to go. When certain things when certain things are happening and certain goals you want to actually achieve.

You can always reevaluate. It's not to say, once you set it up, that's it, you can never do anything else. But I think that's a good place in terms of, like perspective, at least on mine. That's been helpful.

Christian Solorzano [20:04]

So today, what is your— how do you go about solving problems when you're, when you're, let's say you're tasked with solving a problem through design. Do you have a formula? Do you tackle everything a little bit differently? What's the Jeffrey process?

Jeffrey Hitchens [20:25]

I'm almost trying to think of an example to see if that would be more helpful. Well, I mean, let me start off saying, I feel like for me that it was, 'cause I didn't come from a traditional design training background. Earlier years when I was in, high school, the closest thing would've been, and I was doing more photography at that time, Closest thing would've been I was on yearbook, but I didn't design a thing on that.

I didn't realize, it seemed like it was almost, you have the certain things you're like, oh, that's maybe that's a career, but it's not really kind of for me. And I was definitely more focused on doing photography anyway at that time. Then when I got to that, since I didn't have that like formal training going to school for and everything, there's definitely a lot of me trying to build some of those things out. So I wouldn't say I have the Jeffrey process.

Christian Solorzano [21:10]

Quite yet. Yeah.

Jeffrey Hitchens [21:11]

But I would say that I do have ways of really trying to answer the question of like, what is the actual problem?

Christian Solorzano [21:20]

Okay.

Jeffrey Hitchens [21:20]

Versus what is being said necessarily. 'Cause it is common where you get clients that come to you and they don't know what the problem is either themselves. So for me, I guess just to talk about what it might be if I'm working with someone is that, I like having a discovery meeting and just talking to them about what they're actually trying to accomplish.

And then within that, sometimes we can say, okay, this is what the actual problem is that we're trying to try and work on and fix. And these are the steps we can take to get to that point. And that discovery meeting might just be asking like, what are your— okay, if it's an event that happens every year, what are you trying to do something different for this event this year that you didn't do last year?

What were some of the numbers in terms of people that came to the event? How do you reach a lot of most of your audience? Are you trying to change that at all? And what are like, what are also going back to values, like what are your core values in terms of dealing with people?

Christian Solorzano [22:13]

Yeah.

Jeffrey Hitchens [22:13]

Making sure all of that aligns, one, to make sure it's a good fit for both of us. And then also taking those notes and then putting that into what I would propose as we move forward. And then actually putting that into the design and thinking about those constantly as I'm creating something. And it, Honestly, saying it right now, it still feels a little esoteric, but I feel like it flows when I'm in it.

When I get to that point of creating something, being like, okay, I know this is going toward that mark. And if it's something where I'm like, I'm not quite sure, I do try to create a bit more variation in terms of being a bit more experimental in terms of like options, I guess you could say.

That I'll present. But I always love it when I go through that process and get to a point where I'm like, yeah, I feel like this is, this is it. And, it's, I feel like my best the things I've created that I like the most and the clients like the most are sometimes the things that I don't, that I still have a bit of nervousness about presenting, which I don't think is a bad thing.

But I think that's kind of like, I think that shows that there are certain things that I'm sometimes, I think it shows that within the process I've shown myself certain ways that I'm willing to be reckless that I'm not quite ready for when I'm just thinking about it too much.

Christian Solorzano [23:25]

And when talking about your values. Is that something that you share with potential clients? And I'm curious about if you do, what are their responses? Do people— yeah, just curious about what people— what your experiences have been like whenever it is that you communicate kind of your way of working or your values.

Jeffrey Hitchens [23:47]

Full transparency, the design values was introduced to me, or this process for coming up with them was introduced to me by Nerman. When we did the kind of fronting design event at Design one Design.

Christian Solorzano [24:01]

One Design.

Jeffrey Hitchens [24:02]

Which, and I was talking to someone else, and I kind of wish I'd known about them before I started my business. I'm happy I'm just am I like 20 years in or something like that? So I'm not beating myself up about it. 'Cause I think it would've been great to kind of have that initially going into it.

So I would say it has challenged me to open up a bit more in terms of with my clients, because there's definitely a lot of conversation that comes into it. But I think there's— this is— it's shown me a way of being more— it's shown me a way to ask more of myself within a process that I can then bring to clients that's a bit more helpful for them.

Because I think obviously, as designers, we often there's obviously a lot of ask on tour— to our clients to be as open as possible so we can present, give them the best work. But I think it's also helpful for them so they can have a certain level of trust so they can get to that point of sharing as much as possible.

This has been good for me to kind of lay these out and to go into a level of detail with each one and then think more deeply about how I would— I'll bring that into my process with different clients.

Christian Solorzano [25:10]

I know one of the, one of the ways that your brother gave you his old camera, a Ricoh camera. And that— was that the spark? Was that your first time holding something like a camera in your hands? And was that the first— your first direct experience with photography?

Jeffrey Hitchens [25:30]

You know what, I think it would have been because I'm sure I've had another camera, but it's been like more portrait shoots before that. Yeah, when he gave that to me, there's a 7-year difference. I don't remember how old I was. He was in junior college at the time.

And the process of like creating, 'cause, it was a film camera so the process of like creating something with it and like taking your time with it and then like seeing how you could like, 'cause I was the one that had the prism for the focus that you would manually focus for it. And I was an awkward nerdy kid too.

So I think that kind of gave me an outlet as well. And I liked yeah, it was, it was, when you're young, you get— this is gonna sound goofy, where you see little kids and they're like they wanna do, they're excited to do like chores 'cause they feel like, hey, they're grown up kind of a thing.

It felt like that placement of like the moral responsibility and everything, hey, and here's your tool for telling stories and for showing what you see in the world and everything like that.

And it felt like, oh wow, I can do this and that with it. I can like capture these moments and I can, be artistic and all that kind of stuff. It felt like it was being bestowed onto me. Oh, even though I know my brother just took like, I think, a general electives class and he was like, here, you can have this camera.

Christian Solorzano [26:48]

Yeah, before the smartphone cameras, I mean, they still are amazing tools, but I remember my first the first camera that I ever had, that I ever used, I thought it was such a magical device because it allowed you to freeze time and store that time and be able to revisit that. And it was just like magic. It's like, what is this?

It was just so— to this day, I still, with my camera, I feel like we take cameras for granted sometimes because we just, we've become so— photography has become so disposable where we take pictures of just like—

Anything like the elevator number. It's such a— I mean, it's such a cool tool to have, to possess. And it's interesting to think about what are the things that we choose to point it to and what are the things that we feel are worthy of being able to be documented and stored and worthy of looking back in time at some point in the future. So I love photography.

Jeffrey Hitchens [27:57]

Yeah. I definitely feel like since I've been More involved with graphic design. I haven't— excuse me— I haven't explored that to the same level as I did when I was younger.

'Cause yeah, when I first decided to get more into web design, graphic design, I actually sold the camera I have 'cause I just wanted to just go all into it. I mean, I have another camera now, but it was just more about Let go of distraction, trying to move forward kind of a thing. That thing naturally kind of came back, kind of what I'm doing now, 'cause, I did miss it.

And yeah, it does have a very strong— it's a very strong, powerful tool, I feel like. Just like any tool, it can be misused, but I think it's definitely a strong tool for creativity and truth and all that.

Christian Solorzano [28:49]

So what are you working on these days, and what are some of the truths that you're after?

Jeffrey Hitchens [28:54]

So probably the main thing, or I would say the main thing working on right now that I've been trying to flesh out in more concrete ways, something I've teased a little bit in the next issue of Faculty the name I'll possibly be changing. It's very long.

Yeah, and that is something I ultimately want to be a joyous thing, but it also is something I want to use as a way of exploring darkness and more not heavier themes, I don't want to say that, just using darkness as a way of expressing things that aren't necessarily associated with darkness.

So it was I was introduced to the idea of Blackness as transition, a place of transition, through a performance by— here, I'm gonna look it up because it's either Color is Production or Production is Color, and I always mix it up. Yeah, as a place of transition.

Yeah I was introduced to the idea by so this performance by the company called Production Colors, and there was a poet whose name is Kyrie, and in his poem, it said something along the lines, it's like, when your eyes close or something like that. I don't wanna mess up his poem, so let me not try and do that. But that's when that idea was introduced to me of Black as being a place of transition.

It's just, like your mind hears certain things and just kind of sticks out to you, and just kind of stays there kind of a thing.

And then during quarantine of the pandemic, which I guess is, I guess, over. But it seems like quarantine—I mean, COVID still around. That was that was I feel like a very big place of a big period of transition, and you know just a difficult time, I think, for a lot of people, including myself. And it maybe returned a certain part. Return to certain moments and memories from certain parts of my life, and also in a weird way transported me emotionally to certain parts that were difficult.

And it felt like a vehicle for transitioning to another— another— I don't know how to say it. It sounds so corny saying a state of being. That sounds a bit dramatic. But another— Yeah, just like another place, another— Yeah. So yeah, I've been continually exploring that.

And Wanting to express that in a way that is not so much focusing on joy as a way of pushing back the more difficult emotions, but so much so that say that what I realized about myself in that time is that I really struggle with letting myself just be happy, and realizing that one of the things that helps me get there is to accept the parts of myself that feel heavier or the parts of myself that I just don't like. And so yeah, so I'm.

I'm kind of teasing that within the next issue of Faculty, and then I want— I will be expanding on it some different ways in the future. I got a— I don't need to show it to you, no one's gonna be able to see it. I got paint from this place called Hustle Culture, and they have like the blackest black paint. So I wanna do something physical with that.

Analog, if you wanna call it that, but also digital. I'll probably start with that first, and then I've been continually using flowers and plants as well as a way to kind of show changes, transitions, and growth within relationships. I'm trying to pair those in a way right now. So yeah, if you get the next faculty show, you'll see a tease of it, and then I'll keep building on it in different ways.

That I can hopefully have in a— I don't know, I'd love it if I could do an exhibit for it, but I don't know if I'm getting far ahead or not with that. But that's—

Christian Solorzano [32:43]

You talked about happiness a little bit. I want to know what makes Jeffrey happy. What is— what does your utopia look like?

Jeffrey Hitchens [32:51]

You went from like, I had an answer to like a big question of utopia, I'm like, I don't, I don't know. Well, I think it just generally makes me happy is I like just having experiences. I like being around people that I love. I like that they're doing good and feeling good. I mean, I like having enough money to take care of the things that need to be taken care of. Everything else after that is just kind of like what needs to happen.

It's kind of fun additional things. I think if I was more focused on chasing money, I probably would have been doing that already. Being able to have movement, working out it's just continually a big thing for me that what got me into working out was just trying to— it was a— I know it. Slow down. What initially got me into working out is that I realized that it brought me into— got me in a better headspace.

Then from there, doing that consistently, I just— then I would try and challenge myself in different ways.

I guess utopia-wise, maybe this is asking too much of people, but I would love it if everyone could get to a space where they could acknowledge and take responsibility for what they're feeling at any given time, or to at least have something in place where they can learn how to do that better, because then you realize— yeah, I won't get into a story for that, but yes, that I think would be very much part of my utopia. Yeah, does that answer the question?

Christian Solorzano [34:14]

Yeah, that answers the question. The last part that you said there about people taking responsibility or having the self-awareness, yeah, I often notice that whenever I see any kind of angst or person in power that's being unskillful or nasty or mean or whatever, it's usually coming from a place where that person has a need that is unmet. And recognizing that person is Perhaps lacking something, I think cultivates some kind of empathy.

Jeffrey Hitchens [34:53]

I think in terms of people, I try to lean away from them being good or bad as well, but I do try to focus on when I feel like they're abandoning or avoiding responsibility of who they are. And what the effects they have on people, especially if they're in a position of leadership.

Christian Solorzano [35:13]

Yeah, I do agree, because I think at the moment that you make a commitment or take a vow to be a leader, your expectations definitely change. And there is so many— there is so much politics that happen even on a small scale, even within our communities, even like everything that we do, I think, has some kind of political quality to it from, deciding, where we shop or where we what businesses we support or how we work or the clients that we work with.

I think everything is a kind of political statement. And I think some of the values that you're talking about help those things become a little bit more clear and allow you to have a little bit more of a just clarity of what it is that you're doing and the reasons why and all that kind of stuff.

So today, what's keeping you— so we talked about your utopia, but what's keeping you inspired lately? How do you— I know movement is important to you, so like exercising, community is important to you, but is there anything that is just you like to do just for the sake of doing? Like any guilty pleasures, or what do you do when to turn your brain off or to just decompress? And it could be something that's not positive.

Jeffrey Hitchens [36:42]

Something that's not positive.

Christian Solorzano [36:47]

I mean, it could be— I mean, it's great if it is positive, but what's up? I don't know. For me, it's like scrolling on my phone, for example, or watching stupid, YouTube videos.

Jeffrey Hitchens [36:59]

Yeah, I mean, I definitely have my YouTube videos and whatnot. Different channels I follow for like video game stuff, 'cause I was definitely more of an indoor kid at certain points in my life.

So yeah, video games. I love Final Fantasy VII. That was my introduction. I follow, yeah, video game channels I follow like Outside Xtra. I do, I really like the last 2 Zelda games, Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. I haven't played Echoes of Wisdom yet. Maybe I'll get to that. I hope I will, but we'll see.

I also— I don't watch it as much, but I do like watching like fighting stuff, like training for fighting things, whether it be boxing or not MMA as much. Yeah, probably more on the boxing side. Like animated generally just like animated things. So there's this channel also called— on YouTube called— I think it's pronounced Goblins. They do animated shorts that are definitely like, let's say, good high-level stuff. It's some good storytelling in there.

I sometimes like watching horror movie stuff, but I'm a bit more on the side of, more on the psychological side. If there's gore or violence, I like that. I don't like if it's like overdone. I don't like Hostel, basically. That's not my thing at all. There was something that came out recently that was like, I feel like used gore in a good way, and the camera was cold.

Other things that are a bit more on the violent side, I guess that maybe if Could be considered useful, but like Invincible, I enjoy watching that show. Very violent, obviously. And of course I follow photography channels like DPReview, Pixel, PetaPixel. But there's actually recently a kind of goofy and dumb one that I found. It's a website that just, it just has buttons for different sounds from like different like shows and cartoons and stuff like that. Yeah, it's called myinstincts.com.

And they have like a bunch of buttons from like SpongeBob SquarePants. It's just sounds for buttons for sounds. I think I just found— I tend to find a lot of stuff just like on accident. So I think this is one of the things I found on accident. I was looking for like a meme, I think, for SpongeBob for something. I was just reminding somebody in a text group, I think. And then I came across it and I was like, what? This is amazing.

I don't even know who's doing— putting this together, but it's like, I love it.

Christian Solorzano [39:22]

We're approaching the end of our conversation, but I just want to thank you once again for being on the episode and for being vulnerable and for sharing with us a lot of your values and the kind of things that inspire you. I think these conversations are great, and I love to hear people speak about kind of the things that the foundation that inspires and kind of builds upon the stuff that they do.

Because sometimes it's very easy to get carried away with what things look like or where people work or what people do or whatever. But to be able to understand that there is depth behind all these things, I think, is the reason for this podcast.

Jeffrey Hitchens [40:11]

So yeah, thank you for this space and, letting me be part of the club and everything. I know I'm sometimes doing a little, a little extra stuff, so I can't always be as plugged in as I want to be. But I definitely appreciate the space, and I'm happy that folks are showing up and enjoying it, and it's pushing Chicago design in a way.

Christian Solorzano [40:33]

I'll include your website, social media, all that stuff in the description for this episode. So if people want to reach out with any questions, they can do so there. All right, man. Peace out. Bye. Thank you so much for sticking around till the end. If you enjoyed the show, please remember to give us a rating wherever you listen. To learn more about us, visit www.chicagographicdesign.club. Thank you, and we'll talk to you soon. Goodbye.