Christian Solorzano [00:32]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and in today's episode, I speak with graphic designer Johnny Mei, who currently splits his time between Chicago and the Bay Area. And in this conversation, Johnny walks us through his unconventional path into the world of graphic design, starting with his fascination with browsing magazines at Tower Records, to learning about graphic design as a career path from a friend, to present day.

Johnny's creative output is multidisciplinary, and we learn about his approach to self-initiating projects such as his photography series Imperfect Day, t-shirts for charity, and most recently his online archive of inspiration, Internet Found. We also discussed the graphic design industry, Chicago, the importance of both breaking and following rules, and so much more. As usual, I'm delighted to share this conversation with you. I hope that you enjoy it, and we'll talk soon. How's it going, Johnny? Nice to be speaking with you today.

Johnny Mei [01:51]

Oh, good. Thanks for having me.

Christian Solorzano [01:52]

So can you tell us where you're at right now? Because I know that you are Chicago at heart, but you're not, you're not always here. So tell us where you're at right now.

Johnny Mei [02:02]

So my wife and I, we recently moved to California. We're in Mountain View in the kind of like the South Bay Area, just around 40 minutes south of San Francisco. And I pretty much Split my time between the South Bay Area and Chicago. And I have the— just kind of like working as an independent graphic designer. I have the luxury of, just working anywhere I want. So, and I have family in Chicago still. So yeah, I go back and visit and work there sometime.

Christian Solorzano [02:45]

So right now, what's— is there like a Chicago-California ratio? How do you split your time?

Johnny Mei [02:51]

Don't go back to Chicago during winter.

Christian Solorzano [02:53]

Okay, I don't blame you.

Johnny Mei [02:56]

Just because of the traveling and just— you just don't know how the weather is like, flights being canceled. But besides that, I try to go back to Chicago every 2, 3 months, and I stay roughly, 2 to 3 weeks.

Christian Solorzano [03:17]

So I've known about you for quite some time now through social media, and I've been a big fan of your project Imperfect Day. And I was actually looking through old photographs of events that AIGA Chicago used to put together like many years ago and like DSTA, and I actually saw some photos that you were in. At events that I was also at. So I think we've probably crossed paths many years ago.

Johnny Mei [03:44]

Yeah, I think that's one of the great things about the design community in Chicago. Even though I— it's a relatively big city, the design community, I feel like, is pretty small and pretty intimate.

And I've met like a lot of just wonderful people, through these events and just like yourself. Yeah. Like we, the events that you were, that you went like that many years ago, yeah, I was there too. And what you just said isn't the first time someone mentioned that to me. So yeah, I think that's awesome.

Christian Solorzano [04:32]

Yeah. Cause I don't know, I don't know if the listener will remember this, but there was, there was a school, Harrington College of Design. Do you remember that school?

Johnny Mei [04:41]

Yes.

Christian Solorzano [04:42]

And I remember they had like on their first floor, they had a gallery and they used to do a lot of— they used to host a lot of STA events before they closed. So I remember that very vividly because at that time, I was still in school.

Johnny Mei [04:56]

Yeah, I do remember going there, but it's been just too long ago that I can't recall what— why I was there, because it's in the downtown area. And I remember walking there, it's like, oh wow, this is like a pretty new facility when I first went there. So.

Christian Solorzano [05:17]

Yeah. So one of the questions that I always like to ask our guests is, how'd you get into graphic design? Can you tell us that story of graphic design? Why graphic design?

Johnny Mei [05:30]

I actually did not attend university as a design student. I went into UIC as an engineering student. The reason— it's kind of a funny story.

The reason why I actually went into engineering was when I was in high school, I didn't know what I wanted to study, and I went to the counselor's office, and the lady Had this kind of, I guess, smart idea, and she was like, well, Johnny, if you don't know what you want to study, you may want to consider going into engineering, because that's one of the hardest— one of the harder majors to get into.

If you get into engineering and you want to transfer out of engineering to another major, it's a lot easier. Then if you are in, let's just say, like a liberal arts and you want to go into engineering, it's a little bit harder. Yeah, so when I went— when I started college, I did engineering for like a couple of years, and I never really fell in love with what I was doing.

So after that, I dropped out of engineering, and it's kind of like, I'll just try out business to see what happens. And that was a disaster. I did that for like a semester or so. During that time, I don't know if you remember this might date me, Christian. There used to be a Tower Records store in Chicago.

Christian Solorzano [07:02]

Yeah, I remember that.

Johnny Mei [07:03]

Yeah. And I would love going to Tower Records and just love skimming through just all the magazines there. And I was just fascinated by just all the visual editorial, and I didn't even know what that was back then.

I didn't even know, oh, this is editorial design, this is typography, this is graphic— like, I have no idea. All I knew was I just really liked looking at magazines. And fast forward back to school, and I had a friend, and she studied graphic design at, I believe, at the Institute of Art.

And we were just talking one day, and my friend was like, Johnny, it seems like the stuff, the things that you like is what I'm studying, and there's this thing called graphic design, and you should look into it. And so my third year, during the first week, I went into the art and design building and just started asking about the program. And the lady there, she was really nice, and she just took out these projects the students were working on, or has been working on.

And she was like, oh, it's like graphic design classes. Students here take typography, color theory, photography. And I was like, oh, wow, this is awesome. And so during that first week, I dropped all my classes and had like zero credit. And the only way that I can, I guess, register classes after the semester started was I had to go to each individual classes and see if there's any opening.

Because, as, all the— most of the design classes, art and design classes, they're like pretty— like, they're like studio classes. They're like pretty small.

So if there's like a desk the teacher can manually basically sign you in, or. So I was lucky enough to get myself into 3 art and design classes, and I was— and to be a full-time student, and that was like pretty much it. And from there, I just kind of fell in love with everything that the classes were being offered, basically. It was just kind of like a whole new world. I was like, wow, I didn't know there's this thing called graphic design out there.

I was just so amazed.

Christian Solorzano [09:55]

Your admiration for publication design and going to Tower Records, are there any hints from your childhood that would have made it, made that same, made that connection to like, of course graphic design makes sense. I was always into, I don't know, what was your childhood like? What were, what kind of things were you into?

Johnny Mei [10:14]

I would say my childhood was pretty nothing like out of the norm. I would say looking back like, oh yeah, of course, that will be hints of adulthood to come. I guess the only thing was, but, as a kid, I do— I mean, I did enjoy like drawing, like sketching, but it was never really like serious. It was just kind of doodling here and there, like playing with toys, like video games. It was very, pretty normal childhood.

I enjoyed, I enjoyed art classes in high school, but I never really took it like seriously. I said, oh, like this class was pretty cool, and like that was pretty much it. I was never like, when I was like in grammar school, high school, I never really enjoyed going to school. It's kind of just boring. Just something to just get done. And I think one of the reasons was I was just never interested in the academia side.

Of education. And then when I did really enjoy art class in high school, I just never really put any effort into pursuing it. It was just more like, oh yeah, this was kind of cool. And that was pretty much it. And then there wasn't, anyone to like— I guess I didn't really have that community of creatives around me.

And Once you go into like your major at school, you're just surrounded by people that say, oh yeah, this is something I want to do for pretty much the rest of my life. And the energy level is just so different.

Christian Solorzano [12:04]

And so one of the things that I think always really stands out to me about your— I don't want to say like your work, but perhaps like your brand or like your presence on the internet is that is that you have like multiple outlets for creativity. Like you have your design work, but then you have your photography, Imperfect Day. You have your t-shirts that you also do like for charity, t-shirts for charity.

And then most recently you have Internet Found, which is your, what I would call like your curated library of inspiration that you find. On the internet. To me, one of the great things about being a designer is that it gives you the ability to have like various outlets for like creativity, whether it's like typography, photography, whatever the case may be. I want to talk about Imperfect Day. So can you, can you explain to the listener what that is?

I know it's been around since, I believe, 2011. So—

Johnny Mei [13:09]

It actually goes back a little bit farther.

Christian Solorzano [13:13]

Back.

Johnny Mei [13:15]

And the reason, some of the early years aren't live was because I redesigned the site a little bit, and I just haven't gotten to reposting some of the older work. So Imperfect Day started when I was in college, and it was just an outlet of just wanting to do things.

And I think that's kind of like the one common thread with Imperfect Day, Teachers for Charity, Internet Found, is that like selfishly, it just makes me feel good to produce something or to share something. But Imperfect Day started basically just a site that I just post like random things. It didn't even start out as a photography site.

It was just I want to create a website and I don't know what to do with it yet, but I just want to just do something, and I would just post like random things like design work, stuff that I did at school. It was just very random. But the idea, like I said, was just the need to— wanting to do something, right? And as time progressed, I just— it just organically, I found myself posting more photography.

And then I started looking back and be like, oh, this could just be my site where it come kind of like my visual diary, because it's— it was very self-serving in terms of I just enjoyed looking back at, oh yeah, I want to see what happened last year, and I would just go scroll through. The photography. Oh yeah, this is like a— it was like a fun memory.

So basically that was the foundation. It was a visual diary, and then it just became more polished as years went by. And it— and then I just started treating photography a little bit more seriously rather than something just like a little side hobby?

Christian Solorzano [15:31]

Yeah. One of the things that I, that I really love to see designers do is when they initiate these type of like autobiographical projects that give you a little bit of a glimpse about like how they see the world and just like what goes on through their mind. It almost makes me think of like, I mean, it's like, it's kind of like getting a peek into like their diary.

I know some designers will even publish on their websites, they'll scan their sketchbooks and just like upload them. And it's always so fascinating because sometimes it's just scribbles or like little, quick sketches. But to me, that sometimes communicates much more than any about page or like long mission statements or whatever it could possibly say. So I really like that.

And even like on the Imperfect Day website, you don't— there isn't much like written about you other than photography by graphic designer Johnny, and then a list of exhibitions, and that's it. And I, and I love that there's almost like this, like you're— I don't know if this is intentional, but it kind of allows the reader or like the viewer to interpret things in their own way. And I like that. I don't know if, I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

Johnny Mei [16:54]

I guess like the honest thing is that I really wouldn't know what to write, honestly, because knowing myself, because I still see the website, because like I think that's like the one thing I like about these kind of like side projects that I own, right? Like I don't, I'm not doing it for anybody. I don't need it to do for anybody, right?

So I don't have that pressure of making this site to be about like anything in particular, right? Because like the one thing I like about like Imperfect Day for myself is that it's just a site as of right now that has photography, and like that's like pretty much it. What type of photography? Because like because when you— when people ask, oh yeah, what type of photography that you shoot, sometimes like people have to— oh, am I a portrait photographer, studio photographer, street photographer, right?

It's like, it's like people need to have like to be defined.

Or like a need to be defined, or like, what am I about? And the thing that I like about my personal website is like, I don't need any of that, right? I don't feel like the pressure of explaining anything, or I don't actually kind of want to because like, I can write something like today and it may just change a year later, you know what I mean? And oh man, I could put in all the effort and like write this like polished paragraph.

I spent like 5 hours and this one's just gonna change because like the site has changed, like I change, right?

Christian Solorzano [18:42]

Yeah.

Johnny Mei [18:43]

So what's really honest about that site is really is that site is my photography and that I'm a graphic designer. You know what I mean?

Christian Solorzano [18:57]

Yeah.

Johnny Mei [18:57]

And anything that people get out of the photography is up to the viewer, I guess? And yeah, so it's kind of like nice that the site is minimal in terms of that type of content, where the spotlight is it's just about like photography and what type of photography it is. I don't know, right? It's photography. And I just kind of like keeping it like that, like that broad.

Christian Solorzano [19:26]

Yeah. Because sometimes in like defining yourself, like you kind of restrict yourself or you put yourself within a container where you can't now go beyond or like shift or pivot to be something else that maybe to your point, like maybe tomorrow you wake up and you're like, I want to do something that maybe my bio no longer reflects.

Johnny Mei [19:45]

So yeah, exactly. And even like graphic designer, right? Because sometimes within our field, we're— some people are like UX designers or like publication designers, packaging designers. I don't like that for myself just because I like graphic design as a whole, right? And same thing with photography. I like just photography, and sometimes I like to shoot street photography, sometimes I like to shoot color, and sometimes it's black and white, right?

So I don't like pigeonholing myself in that way because I feel like life is much more colorful when we, when we keep things a little bit more broad, at least like for myself. Speaking more for myself.

Christian Solorzano [20:40]

Yeah. And then also I feel like there, there's things that are just beyond language. And sometimes like even putting words to something, I don't know, is impossible because there's just some things that I don't know can't be named.

Johnny Mei [20:55]

Yeah. And I feel like I express myself way better visually than, I mean, obviously like, the things like this interview, or like I need to write something about myself, I just don't feel like I will do that great of a job. And I think that's why another reason, kind of thinking back, with all those projects that you talked about, it's like I feel like I express myself through the work that I do.

And hopefully the work that I, that I do, like the photography, the t-shirts for charity, and things like that. All the things add together, and that's like who I am as a person.

Christian Solorzano [21:38]

Yeah, right. It's like the work speaks for itself. Can you talk to us a little bit about your first internship in the magazine industry?

Johnny Mei [21:49]

The first internship was at this place called UR Chicago, and unfortunately it's not in publication anymore. And it was, if I recall, I saw a posting of the internship in some magazine, I don't— or newspaper. I don't remember how that happened, but I was like, oh, this UR magazine is looking for an intern. I was like, oh, this is cool. And it just so happened that the art director Jeremy Linek. He was a UIC grad as well.

And then so when I went in for the interview, just kind of clicked right away. It's like, oh, it's like, oh, Johnny's from UIC. I know exactly how he designed things.

I designed something, in a similar manner. So yeah, so that was it. And that was the UR Chicago job internship was really special to me because I was a junior, not a junior. I was third year into the program. I don't want to say junior because I was in that, at that point, I was like 4, I was like 4 or 5 years going to school already because I changed major, right?

So I was like a super senior, but I was, I was a junior level in the design program, third year into the design program.

And that was a really special position for me because I interned at UR Chicago, and then after the internship I worked for them like part-time while I had other internships. And so I kept the relationship with the staff at the magazine, and like a year or 2 after I graduated, I worked at, my first job, my first job elsewhere, the magazine wanted someone to work there full-time, and I was like, oh, that's awesome. I would love to work at an editorial place like full-time.

And then from there, I think after like another year went by, the art director left, and then they offered me the art director level, the position there. And at that point, I was only like a year or 2 outside of school, out of school. And now I had like the total freedom to do anything I want at this publication. And that was just almost like a dream come true because like I just had so much fun.

It was such a great experiment where I just working with like photographers. There was another designer there. And it was just a really fun job. And we just had like a blast and we were just all really young and there was just, we didn't play like there was, there's no rules, that we had to adhere to.

Christian Solorzano [24:50]

And when it comes to, when it comes to design, what do you have any criteria or like any, anything that for you checks the box of like something being good, whether it was working at UR Chicago or like just, I'm curious about like for you, what's like the sweet Spot when it comes to great work? What's— what are some qualities of that?

Johnny Mei [25:11]

When I was younger, it was just, does it look cool, right? Yeah. So as a young designer, I was in school, it's like, oh man, like we get to do cool things like posters, like flyers, yeah, that's awesome, right? It's just like whatever looks really cool. And that— and that's how everything started. And I assume that's how it started with like most design students, right?

And as I grew older and just working in the industry, for so many years, and that's— I mean, we see cool work all the time, right? And how the work is being used, or, like we get to, I guess, immerse ourselves in the design industry a little bit more. So the criteria for what I like obviously, would change. And I would say like right now I always ask myself this question, even like the work that I do is like, so what, right?

Like the work looks really awesome, but what's like, what else is there? I mean, what good did it do? And I think like when I A lot of like the work that I do, even like all the passion projects, that's like the one thing I always try to ask myself too, okay, this looks cool, but so what? And one thing that I can bridge this is the t-shirts for charity project, something I just did because I just wanted to design a cool t-shirt for myself.

And that's really how it all started. I just wanted to design a t-shirt for myself. And the website bonfire.com lets you design one-off t-shirts. I could just buy them. I can just design a t-shirt. I just buy it for myself. And that was like really cool. And I just really want to do that. Just something to check off the box. Oh yeah, I've designed a t-shirt and now I'm wearing my own t-shirt. That's cool, right? But then it's like, again, so what, right?

And it's like, oh, what if I just designed More t-shirts, the proceeds can just go to charity, and just, at least there's some good come out of it, right? So that checks that box. So yeah, I guess like for me, like good design is something that I guess have some like positive value in society. Especially, the state of the world right now. I feel like anything good can come out of it. It's a good thing.

Christian Solorzano [27:47]

So one of the things that I tell my students, especially when, or anyone that, whenever I look at someone's portfolio, is that sometimes I see people in their mission statements or in their about me pages talk about their perspective on design. And it's always like, I want to create beautiful experiences or seamless work or whatever. And it's just that's, I always say, that's what you should be doing. That's the bare minimum of what's expected of you as a designer. So in saying like, so what?

I feel like that's such a good response to it looks good. It's like, well, yeah, of course, like you're, you've been doing this for 10 years, like it needs to look good. So what?

Johnny Mei [28:26]

Yeah, exactly. And even something like as simple as like a, like a business card, right?

Christian Solorzano [28:34]

Yeah.

Johnny Mei [28:35]

A business card can be just beautiful. Beautifully designed, beautiful typography printed on like nice paper, letterpress, like the, like the whole thing. It's beautiful, right? And to me, a good designed business card would have that little extra level of like, oh, like there's something like that little extra thing that can like, either bring like a joy to, the person receiving that card, or there's just like a little like something, right? Beyond just being like pretty or like just the aesthetic value of it.

Christian Solorzano [29:19]

I don't know if you remember this, but the design studio in Chicago back then, Plural they had these business cards that were like thermal to read the information. You had to like rub your finger. Like you had to like warm up the card and then like the information would be displayed. Do you remember that? Do you remember Plural? It was like—

Johnny Mei [29:39]

I remember Plural, yes. But I don't remember that the card.

Christian Solorzano [29:44]

Yeah, I wish I still— I remember having one, but I just thought that was like the coolest business card ever because it like when you— when it was given to you, it just looked like nothing, but then you'd like touch it and then it would start to like the information would start to display. And I'm sure, it's probably very expensive to produce, probably not very practical. But I just, I just fell in love with that, with that idea of taking something very simple and making it.

Johnny Mei [30:15]

Yeah. And then, and then one thing, since we're talking about business card, is like that, like the whole kind of like, so what factor in good design. I don't think I can take credit for it because as I got older and just started seeing more design in the field, I remember in particular, I really liked Bloomberg Businessweek back then.

And one of the star designers her name is Jennifer Daniels, and she was such a good like a great designer. Her business card was just— it was just kind of crazy in terms of like, it's like the typography, it was just like really cool looking, right? And that was it.

But there's like this one little line on her business card, it just says, keep this for good luck, guaranteed 100% every time. And I was like, that's just so fun, right? And when I saw it just kind of brings like a, like a, like just like a smile because it's just something fun on top of just.

So I think it's those type of design that I find to be like, I cherish those type of like design just because it just kind of brings some, I guess, like some joy and fun into life in addition to just being something beautifully designed.

Christian Solorzano [31:46]

So are there any particular designers that you, that you, you're very inspired by, or maybe specifically to Chicago, like having been here for a very long time and being a part of the community? What about Chicago or like any, just anything like what are, what are your thoughts on Chicago design? And are there any designers that influence you, influence your work?

Johnny Mei [32:10]

I would say when I was younger, the studio that you just talked about, Plural, I just thought like they did just really cool work and just again very inspirational on like the design level.

Christian Solorzano [32:23]

And they went to UIC too, Renata and Jeremiah.

Johnny Mei [32:26]

Oh yeah, I think they did. Yeah, I think, I don't know what year, but we never really crossed paths. But in terms of going back to your question, if I were to be honest, I— the question— the honest answer would be I don't know, just because I don't really follow like designers or like studios all that much.

And I mean, I see— I mean, I mean, I've of course, I scroll through like Instagram like brand new, but I don't really do like a deep dive into like, oh, like this studio is like doing like really good work and it just kind of becomes kind of like my hero. I try not to do that just because I guess like just being in the industry for a while, I find more inspiration just kind of like different pockets of like different industry.

Like for example, if there is a really cool documentary about like something like— I find that more inspiring, and I get to learn more of that, learn more about life in that general sense. So I feel like I tend to focus more— like, for me to kind of find like design inspiration, I actually look outside of the design industry for that.

And just because I always try to, I guess, like find like different connections in terms of— because if we look at like graphic design, the one— I mean, the things that would inspire me would— it's just like all the cool looking stuff. And it's kind of hard for me to find like the type of good design where like Jennifer Daniels, like her business card, like the little pockets like that is kind of hard.

So in that sense, I tend not to stay in the design, graphic design industry to find inspiration.

Christian Solorzano [34:33]

So yeah, so on that note, you just launched a new part of your website, Internet Found. Can you tell us what that is? What is Internet Found today? What are you hoping to do with it? And yeah, just tell us a little bit about it.

Johnny Mei [34:53]

Before Internet Found, I would say there's this thing called awesome folders in my computer.

Christian Solorzano [35:01]

Okay, awesome folders. Nice.

Johnny Mei [35:03]

Yes. I mean, they're literally called just awesome, like awesome_01, awesome_02. And I mean, basically that says like anything that I find awesome on the internet, I would just like save them. And then when there's 500 items in the folder, I'd be like, okay, next folder, right? And as the years went by, I've— I mean, I think I'm at like awesome_21 now.

And I found myself going back to these folders and just scrolling through and just— and I mean, and they can just be like just random things I just find to be like Even if it's a cool design, something that just brings a smile to me.

It's just like random things, and I find them to be quite inspirational and quite useful when, especially when, if I need, if I just need like something to just kind of cheer me up, or if I have, designer's block, I just go to these folders. I just scroll through them. Oh, this is so cool. I want to be that cool, right?

Christian Solorzano [36:11]

Yeah.

Johnny Mei [36:13]

It just kind of like makes me feel good. I mean, I think that's like the ultimate thing is like it scroll, scrolling through those folders and looking the histories of all these things that I've collected. It's just kind of like, it's just fun for me. And then I was like, oh, it'd be kind of fun to share some of these things, with people. And so I was like, oh, I could just be like, oh, these are things that I They're found from the internet.

So I guess I should just have this thing called Internet Found then, right? So this— that's just how it just kind of organically started. And then, as you can see, they're not all about like design. They could, it's just kind of like random things. And that's right. I think that's just kind of the start of it. And then what I hope to see, I guess, like how it grows from there, like I don't really know.

I just kind of let it just organically happen for the most part because like as time progresses, like I will change as a person too. So I feel like what I find important, what I don't find important will kind of change.

And it's like same thing like with Imperfect Day, it just kind of organically happened and it's and I kind of like it that way. So same thing with Internet Found. It's like, it's a pretty simple like website. It's just basically just like fun things like I found from internet. And that's just I'll just leave it at that and see what happens.

Christian Solorzano [37:51]

Yeah, no, that, that's interesting because just going back to like your photography and just Even like not wanting to define yourself extensively through your website. But I also feel like Internet Found is another example of like the things that you find interesting kind of being the things that speak about you more than a few sentences could ever speak about you?

And I also love that you're, by hosting things like on your own website, as opposed to like just sharing things like on Instagram or something, you're taking ownership over of like the content itself as opposed to like having it exist somewhere else.

Johnny Mei [38:35]

Yeah, it's kind of like this notion. I forgot, it was, I read, it's this one author, his name is Rick Poynter. He's a design writer, everybody. And there was like this article that he wrote many years ago, and it's basically about like design authorship. Right, because in our day-to-day job, all the things that we designed aren't really for ourselves, and it shouldn't be because, graphic design is pretty much a service industry. We get paid to help somebody do something.

So in that sense, I try not to take any of my design work personally. And then when I do want to, I have like these other outlets that I am like the sole author. I own, I own the design, I own the content, and I kind of like really like that aspect of it.

Christian Solorzano [39:41]

And you don't have to worry about someone else taking it down because it's your content. I always worry about sharing things on Instagram and then for— because I've heard, I've seen like some friends who have like their Instagram gets like deleted or like removed or something. And then it's like, well, there goes all their— there goes all their stuff.

Johnny Mei [40:01]

And another reason I like hosting Internet Found in my own website is also because just like Imperfect Day, Internet Found is kind of like a diary, too. I would just love to, look back, as more entries start happening. I would love to look back. Oh, wow! Like 2 years ago, I find that to be interesting. Same thing, kind of looking through, my awesome folders, oh yeah, that happened like 10 years ago. And it's kind of like this time capsule, too. Of how society progressed.

Because like, because when Internet Found, in addition to design things, there's other things. And, there's like stuff about society, about like our world. And it's, and it's fun for me to just see how things change through the years.

Christian Solorzano [41:09]

I have on my computer, I have a folder of screenshots and I'm always really fascinated with seeing the evolution of the UI of like the computer, like seeing like an old screenshot from like Google Chrome from like 12 years ago and like just seeing how everything was like skeuomorphic and like things look different.

And it's always like there is a website the Web Design Museum. I don't know if you've heard of it. Pretty much just like it's a museum of websites and you could go back in time and see what like eBay looked like in 1998 or whatever. And it's always like so fascinating to see these like relics of something digital from like, decades ago. I like that.

And I always, like I said, like I try to encourage like my students and like young designers that I sometimes speak with to get into the habit of being like closer observers of like the world around them. And to pay attention to everything, because I— that, to me, that's the beauty of graphic design, is that it touches just about everything. Like the things that we buy, like our homes, the products that we use, like the roads, everything.

Johnny Mei [42:25]

So yeah, and yeah, and to further that point is that I find myself to be a better designer when I when I get to know the world around us a little bit more, to really understand what goes on in this world, the good and the bad things.

Because, we work in so many industries, we work with so many different kinds of people. And I feel like the more that we get to know the world around us, the better we are as a designer, because ultimately the things that we design are communication tools. So I think like the more that we understand how things work, the better we can design things that help communicate.

Christian Solorzano [43:17]

So Jeremy, who you worked with, he's a really good friend of mine. And we talk, we talk, we talk every day almost. And he was sharing with me a quote From Michael Bierut because he went to a school to speak with the other day. And the quote, I think, touches on what you're, what you're speaking about. But it's like, the quote is, you design best when you're interested in the topic, so become interested in many things.

And I think that kind of explains a little bit of like what you were saying here is that whether it's like your vocabulary or like your, or your understanding on like different industries and sectors and mediums and practices, I think that just leads to more wholesome, appropriate response to like problem solving.

Johnny Mei [44:01]

I guess like to me, the better graphic designers are, in my opinion, are generally people that are just naturally curious at things, at just general everything. There's love like to find out how things work, why things are this way, or why things are that way. And I think that curiosity can really help with their work.

Christian Solorzano [44:32]

Maybe talk to us a little bit about your creative practice and how it manifests and how you—

Johnny Mei [44:37]

I would say it's pretty organic in terms of why I do the things that I do. I really don't have a really good answer for that. I can BS one, but I probably don't want to. But I guess, honestly, it's first and foremost, it comes from a self-worth. I just, me, myself as a person, I just feel better when I'm actually producing something, when I'm, making something. And it's not— it doesn't need to be, like something grand. It's just like little, like little things.

For example, like I said, just going out and just like shooting photography, like working on like my scrapbook, just like doing something, like just creating like little things here and there. And I find that when I don't do any of that stuff, I just generally just don't feel good. I just feel just a little bit bummed out. I just feel kind of like, man, what am I doing with my life? I'm not doing anything.

Right? So that's kind of like that natural drive to just go out and like fill my life with— like, for example, like when I go out and like go out and just like shoot for a day, generally would just kind of look forward and just kind of going through like photograph and just making sense of it. And from there, like the editing process and like the whole process of me just being like engaged in making something. And that generally just makes me like just feel good.

So there's like really no like bigger idea out there.

In terms of, I think, like the honest the honest thing, I think, hopefully your, people listening will like to hear is that it just makes me feel good when I'm just doing something. And I don't really— there's really like no deeper, psychological meaning to it, right? Because that's just, sometimes I feel like, why delve too deep into some of these things when I'm just, oh yeah, I just kind of like doing it, so I'm just gonna keep doing it.

And what— and let's just see what happens, right? I just kind of like doing this and I just keep doing this thing. And then as like the momentum builds up, then I start seeing— I start seeing something, right? Oh yeah, like this. It seems like all these little things I'm doing have these kind of common features. Like for example, again, like Imperfect Day. It just happens that the majority of the entries start becoming very photography-based.

So then I just made that decision where like, okay, imperfectday.com will become like a photography website, and that was it?

Christian Solorzano [47:45]

Yeah.

Johnny Mei [47:46]

So, and I think that's like the beauty of these like passion projects is like, I don't need to do like— I just don't feel like the need to have like a really strong idea at first. It's like, it's just kind of like planting a seed, right? It's like, all right, let's just see what can come out of it. And then as the plant is like sprouting, you just kind of take care of it? So.

Christian Solorzano [48:17]

I like that. I'm also, I would say I'm very similar. And the fact that I also don't like to plan things. I mean, I do to an extent, but I prefer to just like improvise and like hope for the best. And it's, and it's always interesting because things seem to work best when you like least plan things.

Johnny Mei [48:39]

Yeah, I think that's just kind of like, yeah, I guess like in response to that, that's kind of funny because like I guess like most of the time is that I just try to just try to like kind of wing things a little bit, just because of— and I think one of the reasons is, I'll share like a couple of fun stories. When I was working at the studio, I was working there for a few years, right?

And I'd be like, oh man, what do I want to do now? Like. What, what's next, right? Because some people, when you work in a studio, you're like, oh yeah, you're a designer, you want to work toward a senior design level, and then you could just, and then like, oh yeah. And if you don't like this particular firm, you look for another job, right? You always kind of, kind of thinking ahead, like planning things. And so I was kind of same in that, in that mindset.

I was like, man, so what's next? What should I do now? I was just kind of stuck, right? I was just kind of stuck. I just kept thinking what to do next. And then the housing crisis happened and I just got laid off. I was like, oh well I guess like, I don't really need to think about that anymore because like—

Right? Because the plan— because anything I would have planned Wouldn't have— it doesn't really matter, right? Because like some catastrophic event happened, and now like, all right, now what, right? And then so that was my first experience. And then secondly, same thing happened again when I was working at VSA Partners. That was my last full-time job, and I was there for a few years, and I was like, okay, what should I do now?

Christian Solorzano [50:32]

Yeah.

Johnny Mei [50:33]

Should I work really hard and aim for a promotion or like what to do? Because I was just kind of lingering as like a senior designer there, and I was like really happy, doing the work. But in the back of my mind, it's like, okay, what should I do next, right? And then the pandemic happened, lockdown, and a few months later, again, I was laid off. I was like, oh well, I guess I don't have to think about that anymore, right?

And then so I thought, okay, I guess like I'll just start, I'll try this like, freelancing thing out. And now like I'm an independent graphic designer for like 3 years. I was like, oh well, I guess like that, like that's it, right? It just kind of like organically happened. And I just kind of like made decisions along the way. And now like this journey that I'm on is pretty exciting. It's like, it's definitely something I didn't imagine. Myself to do.

I wouldn't— I could have never planned for this type of career that I'm in right now, a few years back. I wouldn't have been like, oh yeah, I, I'll just go solo. I would never do that. That would just never cross my mind until something like this happened. And then I just kind of like just went along with the ride. So.

And I think that's just kind of like my overall, just kind of my mentality that like, if just, if I just work hard and just try to be like a good person, that things will probably be okay. So yeah.

Christian Solorzano [52:11]

And in regards to graphic design, like the graphic design industry, like I'm curious to hear Your thoughts around just like your assessment on like seeing graphic design and like our industry evolve for the last, let's say, 2 decades. Are there any, what are your thoughts on the state of graphic design today? Are there any things that you find really inspiring? Excited about things that are changing? Just what's— I'd like to get your pulse check on the state of graphic design today.

Johnny Mei [52:45]

I guess like there's 2 things that I gravitate towards. One is I really enjoy when I see graphic design— don't take graphic design too seriously, because I feel like then that's when exciting things happen. Like one thing that I really enjoyed is the editorial design coming out of like Bloomberg Businessweek. And I want to focus on that for a little bit, is that Bloomberg Businessweek is just, it's kind of like this stuffy business magazine back then.

And it was just not, it was just not that fun to read. And then when, I believe his name is Richard Turley, when he came on board, he totally changed that magazine and just made it just really fun. He didn't take graphic design too seriously. He'd break rules, and it was just kind of fun. It was just like very— like a breath of fresh air in the industry.

The same thing happened back then when David Carson came into the industry, when modernism was just so popular, and he came in and just like made grunge type and made everyone just very angry in a good way, right? Because I think graphic design, or graphic design industry needed something like David Carson to happen.

And then the other thing is, on the other extreme, I do like when graphic design takes graphic design very seriously too, because I think that's when graphic design itself becomes a little bit more elevated. It doesn't have to be like— it doesn't need to speak to the general public. It shouldn't speak to the general public, right? Because there's so many kind of very niche, you know and it's something that like, graphic designers just kind of nerd out or just kind of geek out at.

And that's when I think for example there's like this one designer like in Taipei, and he does, he does like these purely typographic, book covers. And the, and the design is so, it's so, I guess, strict. There's, really no room for anything else. I think that's kind of like the aura that this, that his design has. And you can tell that studio takes graphic design very seriously, right? Because there's just no room for play, and I think that's great also.

And I just kind of love that duality in our industry where you can take things just very playful, almost anti-design, or— and you can take things almost like very seriously that Only designers can understand that, and that, that's like, that breadth is really awesome.

Christian Solorzano [56:02]

I really love when graphic designers play with like legibility and like making things be a little bit difficult to like read.

Johnny Mei [56:11]

Yeah, and it doesn't— and things in that, in that sense, it's not meant for everybody, and it's— yeah, and it's okay because it's not meant for everybody, and some designs are meant for everybody. And when it's meant for everybody, it should— it shouldn't not be meant for everybody. I think that's what the beauty of graphic design is.

There's lots of like different areas that, that's like at play, and there's like a little— and there's like a lot of different audience that graphic design sometimes can be placed in.

Christian Solorzano [56:49]

So we're almost at time, but I just have a few more questions and they're— And they're just regarding like Chicago. Like another question that we often ask is like, in Chicago, are there any particular things that you wish you could see more of? What about Chicago? Just what are— what would be like your call to action for like Chicago designers or the community? And it could be, and it could be as broad or as specific as possible.

Johnny Mei [57:14]

I would say, just being away from Chicago now for a few years, I didn't realize how many awesome museums that we have in Chicago. And just like the history of like the Art Institute with the Modern Wing, then there's like the Shed, the Planetarium, the Field Museum. I think that's just something that's such a gem in Chicago that comparing to like other cities I visited, I felt like I took the museums in Chicago a little bit for granted.

Now when I go back to Chicago, I make a true effort. I'm gonna go and visit a museum whenever, every time I go back to Chicago now, I Like, I always go to the Art Institute. I always go to the MCA. I truly make an effort. And whereas when I was in Chicago full-time, I just, I just kind of took it for granted.

Christian Solorzano [58:19]

Is there anything— and I know that you have Internet Found— but anything that's currently inspiring you right now, whether it's like a book, music, a movie, what's been your latest thing that you're really excited about?

Johnny Mei [58:35]

I would say just exploring West Coast, especially because I grew up in Chicago. I grew up like in the city. I love big cities. And now, like in the West Coast here, there's just so much nature. And I find myself, I'm able to focus a little bit more here. And I— the one thing I really enjoy is almost— I don't want to say solitude, but just kind of being away from normality, which is like the big city.

And it's just like a breath of fresh air for myself. I just find myself like being a lot more active because if I, if I look back at my work, like I've done a lot more photography Since being here, I the T-Shirts for Charity project was started relatively recent. Internet Found was very recent. So I, so I think just kind of being away from all the action, really helped in terms of me being even, more being productive.

Christian Solorzano [59:53]

Are there any upcoming projects or anything else that you're that the listeners should be on the lookout for? What are you working on these days?

Johnny Mei [60:02]

I'm in the process of designing more t-shirts for T-Shirts for Charity. Just, I find just it's such a rewarding project for myself, especially it just feels good that knowing that some of the, some of the things I designed, when people buy it, some of the money just go to a good cause. And that's just such a feel-good project for myself. And then I do trying to make more time for things like that.

Christian Solorzano [60:35]

All right. And if anyone wants to get a hold of you or learn more about you we'll include the link to your website in the description for this episode. But with that said, I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today. It went— it flew by.

Johnny Mei [60:52]

Yeah, such a pleasure. Yeah, thank you so much for doing this. I think it's— I think it's just— it's so great, for the community to come together and just kind of like, just sharing thoughts, opinions. So.

Christian Solorzano [61:07]

Yeah. And for your website, I'm curious, what are you— how are you building it? What are you doing to build your website?

Johnny Mei [61:13]

Just hand coding.

Christian Solorzano [61:15]

Okay, perfect.

Johnny Mei [61:16]

I think that's just how I learned. And I like to continue that way. I feel like that's I guess it's a good way for me to just kind of like learn how to just kind of have full control over the website. I mean, of course, like there's like some JavaScript that I won't be able to actually write, you know by myself. But in terms of like the way that I designed a website, I try to hand code as much as possible.

And then, and just, and then just kind of like just learn along the way. So.

Christian Solorzano [61:52]

So for example, when you need to, when you want to upload like a new photograph, you need to like go in and like hand code like the code, like the image tag and do all that manually.

Johnny Mei [62:02]

Yeah. And then like log into my FTP, login FTP, upload an image and upload the HTML file. Yeah, I do enjoy that. Anytime, when I try to design something, when I try to, do a new type of layout or just do something that I don't know how to, I love finding out how to do it. And when I— when I— and when it— when it works the way that I want to, it's so gratifying. I'm like, oh wow, that's magic.

Christian Solorzano [62:40]

Yeah. And sometimes it's like something very minor, like a third grid, like a third column, or like something very— that like, yeah, because I also hand code my websites. And to your point, like sometimes just figuring out how to do like inline text or like justify my text as well. It's like, oh, it feels so good.

Johnny Mei [63:02]

Yeah. And I was just, I was just updating my website recently. And I, and one thing I learned that just come through my mind was that I didn't know you could do negative margins and that made my life so much easier. But yeah, I was like, the spacing is not right. How can I even, I was like, oh, you could do negative margin.

Christian Solorzano [63:26]

Yeah. Yeah. But it sometimes it is a pain. Like if you want to like upload like a new post or something and you're like, all right, I gotta like open up, like I gotta create a new page. Do the image tag like, log into my FTP, drag it. And it's— and sometimes when I, when I explain that process to people, it's, it seems like it's like I'm torturing myself on purpose.

Johnny Mei [63:52]

Yeah. Plus, the, all, the sites that I'm personally working on, they're relatively small. So I don't really need, a content management system.

So in that sense, for me to, do the hand coding and just upkeep is not— it's still possible. So I feel like if my site becomes like really big for me to continue what I'm doing probably will probably be pretty hard. So yeah. And that's another reason why it's good for me to just keep my site like small because I would love to just keep just, being more hands-on because I just get to learn something new.

Christian Solorzano [64:37]

Yeah, cool. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I enjoyed learning more about you, and I hope that you come to Chicago to visit soon because the Chicago Graphic Design Club would love to like get together and do something.

Johnny Mei [64:52]

So yeah, I'm actually gonna be in town in a couple months, and yeah, I'll definitely let. Maybe we'll grab coffee or something.

Christian Solorzano [65:02]

Yeah, cool. All right, well, have a good rest of your day and we'll talk soon.

Johnny Mei [65:07]

Okay, thank you very much. It's a pleasure.

Christian Solorzano [65:09]

Thank you so much for listening until the end. If you want to learn more about the Chicago Graphic Design Club, visit our website at www.chicagographicdesignclub.com. Graphicdesign.club. We have some exciting things planned for the summer, so we hope to see you there. Till then, talk soon.