Christian Solorzano [00:00]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and today I am delighted to share my conversation with Jonathan Nesci, a multidisciplinary artist working across sculpture, furniture, and fine arts, who grew up in Oak Lawn, Illinois, and now works out of a studio on his Brothers Farm just outside of Chicago. Jonathan traces his origin to a sandbox his grandfather built him and a chest of hand-sanded wooden blocks.

He says he's never really left that state of play. We follow that thread through a fundamentalist Baptist school, 5 years driving a forklift at FedEx, and a coworker named Brian who asked him whether he knew that people designed furniture for a living. He's direct about what drives him. In his own words, I am driven by form, not decoration, not trend— form. He designs around what local fabricators can already do and says that constraints are not limitations, they are catalysts.

You'll hear the story behind 100 Variations, the 100 mirror-polished tables he installed at Eliel Saarinen's First Christian Church in Columbus, Indiana, and why 6 years into a sculpture practice he says he feels like a kid again. As always, if you enjoy conversations like these, we appreciate when you leave us a rating wherever you listen. It helps us expand our reach. Thank you so much for tuning in. Enjoy the conversation. Good afternoon, Jonathan.

Jonathan Nesci [01:45]

Hi, how are you? Good to see you.

Christian Solorzano [01:47]

Good to see you too. This is our first time ever connecting live other than through a few Instagram DMs and a few text messages.

Jonathan Nesci [01:56]

Yeah. Thank you, Christian, for reaching out.

Christian Solorzano [02:00]

I think from what I've heard about you and the research that I've done, I sense this shared frequency. Yeah. So one of the, one of the first questions that I always ask in my conversations with people is the origin story. I want to understand everything that led up to you doing the work that you do today.

Jonathan Nesci [02:28]

I think the, true origin story starts in the sandbox. So my grandfather owned a concrete block company in Des Plaines. Outside of the, near O'Hare. And he built us this custom sandbox in our backyard and would take the same sand that he made concrete and have it delivered every summer. So I think the sandbox feels like a continuation of the story where you're in a state of play all the time. And on top of that, he made, he hand-sanded wooden blocks.

So I had a whole chest full of hand-sanded wooden blocks. So that was, that was my interior sandbox in a way of building and imagining and then doing it over and over again. So the, unlike a kind of a Lego set where you put it together once, it's just this con, it's a set of constraints or something. So I think it really kind of goes there.

That was my grandfather introduced me to Frank Lloyd Wright, and, that was the only kind of outlet I had into architecture or any kind of cultural creative practice. So that was pretty important. And then I would, my mom signed me up for an art class when I was a kid for drawing, and I just felt like I found my people in a way.

So those were super early, but then I had this kind of desert of very little input from, call it, 7th grade to, I graduated high school. There was just not a lot of influences in that time. I went to school in the basement of a fundamentalist Baptist church. And I think at 13 I was knocking on people's doors asking them if they were going to heaven.

So it was just, there was only one tunnel for this school was you're going to be a missionary or a pastor or assistant pastor. So it was really, it was more pushing you into a mold versus kind of the early freedom that I had.

So that, but I had this kind of portal to the outside world through BMX, and that was just, I built a 30-foot ramp in my driveway and designed it and cut the plywood, and my parents just let me go in that zone and really kind of loving the sub-worlds in it. I loved that even within BMX, there's flatland and dirt and street and vert and finding your place within the sub-world. And just totally obsessed.

Like the frame on it was 4130 chromoly, and you can see the other parts on it were anodized. And it was kind of like that sub-world kind of introduced me into the materiality of it, how different companies had their own frame styles. And, but then also going into the field, and I think in Bridgeview they had this field going up to a railroad track, and I would go there and dig dirt jumps.

And so it, that was my world outside of the con— the constraints of the fundamentalist structure. And my parents just, they weren't, I don't think they were super fundamentalist by themselves, but the church they went to was. So, and how that bridges into what I'm doing now is right outta high school, I needed a job and Drove a forklift for FedEx, and I did that from '99 to 2004. And my brother was going to a community college in Palos called Moraine Valley for drafting.

So I would have some ideas there and I would have him draft it. And over time, I think even some architecture, like the container houses back in the day with Low-Tech and I would kind of create my own container houses and have him draw them. And over time he was like, you just have to learn to do this yourself. So FedEx had a tuition reimbursement program. If you got a C or better, they paid you back.

So I went to community college for 3D drafting from 2002 to 2004. But right before that time, we got—

Married super young. Me and my wife were both 20 when we got married, and she turned 21 on our honeymoon and bought us drinks. So it's like totally kind of untraditional path towards design. We went to an estate sale and I found a coffee table by the company Lane. It was a boomerang-shaped coffee table made outta walnut. And it was $8 and wouldn't fit in my Honda Civic. And my wife told me to buy it anyway.

We put it up on eBay and it sold for like $1,200 or $1,400. And like young and broke and newly married, that was just an insane proposition. And that was my kind of gateway into, I call 'em the gateway, the gateway designers of Bertoia and Saarinen and Eames. And then that opened up another sub-world of design furniture. And it was a guy at FedEx named Brian that said, people design furniture for a living. And that just blew my mind. How is this a thing?

And then that just became the goal. So I wanted to become a furniture designer and then I went to Me and my wife had our first kid during night school at 3D drafting. And then all the 3D drafting courses, I was drawing furniture. I would take a George Nelson bench and see if I could draw what it actually is and then take those elements and make it mine and do a, my version of a George Nelson bench, but as a side table.

So there's really, it just, I think my sister-in-law gave me the 1,000 Chairs book for Christmas early on, and then that just— I could kind of like baseball cards and basketball cards and DMX. I wanted to know all the elements of this, so became really obsessed. And then after 2 years of drafting, I got my 3D certificate in drafting from Moraine. And was buying and selling vintage design on eBay and Craigslist and found that Wright Auction House was in my backyard.

And I had no idea that this kind of mecca of design was so close to home. And I cold emailed Richard Wright, told him I want to become a furniture designer and I would love to work there. And I put in my—

Christian Solorzano [10:11]

He—

Jonathan Nesci [10:12]

We met and put in my 2 weeks at the, at FedEx and jumped worlds driving a forklift to being around the best design in the world. It was just, he took a big chance on me and I'm so grateful for that. 'Cause that opened, that introduced me to the whole thing.

Christian Solorzano [10:31]

And as you were exploring this notion of creating furniture, did you have peers to bounce ideas off of, or was it mostly a practice that was on your own?

Jonathan Nesci [10:46]

I was totally isolated from the world. So probably like rooted to the fundamentalist Baptist school, where you're in this world and then the BMX is the portal. It was really kind of a something that became mine. But then Wright introduced me to just, I worked with amazing people who are still my friends and that became, that became my peers. But then also, and then I managed restoration. I broke a couple things early on when I worked at Wright.

Within the first 2 months, I broke probably I broke a $7,000 to $9,000 coffee table. And a $30,000 Gio Ponti desk. And then they're both glass and I got them, I got them restored and remade. And that opened up a whole job within the auction house of getting things reupholstered, getting things machined. A bent Eames leg would come in and you would have to reconstruct it. The first time I was introduced to aluminum fabrication, was through vector fabricating on Fulton.

And they welded Alexander Girard coffee table, cast aluminum piece. So it just opened up so many worlds. And that I really, I think drafting, I learned the tool, but I think my real design education was Wright.

Christian Solorzano [12:18]

And what were some of the challenges, or maybe not challenges, but what were some of the growing pains that came with Leaving, say, FedEx and now being fully enveloped in this new world in which you're surrounded by the thing that you want to spend your life doing? Was there any yeah, just what was going through your mind?

Jonathan Nesci [12:40]

At that point when I think it was 23 when I started, right? With a baby at home. So, I think the resources early on were always you trying to make it all the— you take care of 2 other people and making everything click was— I think the financial challenges were harder than anything. Wright was— I was making good money at FedEx driving a forklift and, Richard matched my pay to start.

So it wasn't— I didn't have to take a pay cut to kind of jump into the world. But the challenges were really financial early on and also kind of splitting my time quite a bit. When my kids were young, I was just working all the time. So that, it was, it was just a lot of juggling early on between family and work.

Christian Solorzano [13:36]

Yeah. And was there some particular Outputs that you were chasing? What were some of the objects that you wanted to make or be known for? Did you have some vision in mind of, I want to create a body of work and it needs to be XYZ? What was that like?

Jonathan Nesci [13:57]

Yeah, not early on. I knew that I had to kind of really understand the history before I would have enough information to develop a body of work. So I started right in 2004. And then the winter of 2006, DWR had kind of a local furniture design competition where I don't know if you remember those days where they would have the champagne cork small chair competition. You'd have to make a miniature chair out of the elements of a champagne bottle.

I wanted to go into the world, didn't know how. And then they had a competition for an actual show. That it was a jury panel that would choose who was in the show. And I submitted my first design, which is the H1 coffee table, these 2 interlocking plates of steel with a glass top. So it's really simple, but I submitted kind of CAD drawings, didn't get into the competition, but the rules were you had 3 months to produce it if you were chosen.

So even though I wasn't chosen, I was like, could I have made this? So I made the table just to see if I could. And that was like the best drug you, I could have ever had. It was just like dopamine for days of just, this was an idea and now it's a thing. And that was kind of a fusion. Of 2 designs. It was the proportion of a George Nakashima walnut table.

No, the proportion of a Richard Schultz pedal table with some angles that I saw in a George Nakashima table in a completely different format. So if I didn't tell you that, you'd never see the link, but it was like these 2 things in the soup with industrial fabrication. And then I applied. They had the same competition the next year, and I applied and with a new stool and got in. And that gave me the confidence to kind of launch a body of work.

So that design competition was early 2007. And even after I made the table in 2006, I went to ICFF in New York, which is the International Contemporary Furniture Fair. Where just to kind of scout as a goal of, I wanted to show the following May, even though I didn't have a body of work. And those 2 designs from DWR became part of a series that I launched in 2007 under my middle name, my grandfather's name, Hale, H-A-L-E.

Christian Solorzano [16:44]

And then in 2009 is when your time at Wright ended. Is that correct?

Jonathan Nesci [16:53]

It, yeah, it was winter '08, '09.

Christian Solorzano [16:56]

Okay. And then that's when you sort of just went all in and just became a full-time designer. Yeah.

Jonathan Nesci [17:06]

So I showed at ICFF in May of '07. Okay. And then I met Ugo Alfano, who is a 20th century Italian modernism dealer. And he would consign it, right? But he had a gallery on Fulton. And he saw one of my designs in my office and was like, what is this? And he learned that I could 3D draft. So he was preparing to show at Design Miami December '07.

And that was, I went from like launching in May and then showing at Design Miami in December of '07. And then He, I designed the booth with him and the same coffee table that didn't get into DWR was shown in mirror polished bronze. So he was just a kind of an early patron that kind of got me into this other world. And then he showed my work again, February '08 in Paris. And that was my first home run. We sold an edition of 8 shelves.

In mirror-polished aluminum. And Richard and Ugo are friends. So Richard was like, holy cow, kid, you did it. And then, and then he showed my work again in London, September of '08. And that early investment was so nice. It was just like being able to create whatever I was thinking.

And, ultimately he was the client, so it was just, it was a it was, it wasn't in a vacuum, but then we showed again. And then I don't know if you remember September '08, but the economic world was falling apart. So I'm in London with Ugo, taking time off work to go to London to show. And it was like, oh, this isn't looking good. So it was, it was kind of a February of '08, hit a home run, September the world was falling apart.

Late December, I was laid off at Wright. It was just so there wasn't, things were going well enough to know that I should do more, but it was, I was still buying and selling vintage on the side too. So that supplemented the new work, but kind of a rough start.

Christian Solorzano [19:28]

Yeah. And can you walk us through your mindset or your approach when you were beginning to chase a new idea? Is it that you're responding to something or is it that something is calling you? Is it a curiosity? But is there, I'm trying to understand what your, I guess, yeah, your creative ethos and sort of that. Yeah.

Jonathan Nesci [19:59]

I mean, it's an endless curiosity of what's possible. So I have my own internal north stars of using local available industrial production, water jet cutting, CNC bending, welding. And this is something I learned at Wright where I managed restoration with all these works, but I wasn't physically restoring it. I was finding the upholsterer, I was finding the glass guy, I was finding the welder.

And then you realize, 'cause I did take some welding classes in at the community college and realized early on, it's, you, you're gonna have to dedicate a big part of your life just to get good at welding. And so it became kind of the model that I learned at Wright ended up working for me outside of it, of finding the best welder, finding the press brake guy. There's all these specialists.

Along the way, and it takes, hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment and 10 different skill sets to produce the work. So it was really about using that similar model then to produce the work. So it's really kind of based on what's available, where I'm designing around their capabilities and not designing something that I then have to find someone to make it.

And that's been the same ever since, is I'm always trying to find something I learned from Rick really is Rick Valicenti is just walking the line of the known and the unknown and having a foot in each and always being in that state of kind of built, building on what you've already done.

Christian Solorzano [21:44]

When it comes to taste or the decisions that you make through your process, how would you describe your own creative sensibilities? What would you consider to be the overarching theme that your work expresses? Is there something that you, that you would identify?

Jonathan Nesci [22:07]

It's a few, but I think the, I think it's kind of the input in, input out ratio. Of effort versus value. I think I'm trying to find a clarity or less steps in the process to kind of keep it in the sandbox and to keep it fun. So how can you go from an idea to a 3-dimensional object with less steps in the middle?

Less and it's more for kind of the dopamine of it, the, if, doing the same thing over and over again, I realized early on that, kind of true industrial design was not, didn't kind of align to how I think. I always wanted to be growing and learning something. So I would say kind of clarity and Energy, like energy efficient, like really making sure that I can explore all these ideas without kind of being bogged down to one of them.

Christian Solorzano [23:16]

And can you walk us through a day in your life? How do you structure your life or your weeks to make so that you're capable of doing your best work? What are the ingredients required to yeah, Jonathan.

Jonathan Nesci [23:33]

There's so many ingredients in that soup. And I've learned to I think adding them is one thing, but knowing when to remove them is the biggest one. Like if it doesn't taste good anymore, like pull it out. So there's a lot of editing of 45. When I woke up on my 40th birthday, I was like, I never want to mow my lawn again. Like I'd never want to, I hate doing it and I don't like the noise and the smell and the time.

So there was a lot of editing of, I think, feel like the whole career is editing of that was good for the time. And I appreciated that step in the journey, but it's kind of like, I don't want to do first grade again. I want to go from first grade to, like I wanted there to be a graduation process. So it's a lot of editing, but and then not designing the objects alone, but designing the process and the system.

And how you want to live every day. And freedom is like more valuable to me than anything, like being able, for the most part, outside of like dentist appointments and stuff like that, I don't put anything on the calendar. And having that, being open allows, being open to opportunity. So a day, a normal day is, it kind of became a COVID Starbucks run. I don't know if you remember early on where like sometimes the store would be open and sometimes it would be closed.

So there was always this moment like, is today the last day Starbucks is open? I don't know. We'll see. And for a solid 6 years now, it's been, it's the first thing I'm thinking of is opening up the mobile app on my Starbucks and ordering it. And then that 10-minute drive to Starbucks, I'm not paying $6 for a cup of coffee. I'm spending $6 to get me moving.

And that kind of start has really been very consistent, like having that kind of early morning ritual of just getting moving. And I come back home and, just hang out with Christine, my Wife of 25 years, kids, the, I have 2 boys. They're out of the house. They've been out of the house for a few years now. So it's just us and our little 9-pound Maltipoo dog named Enzo. So it's just kind of a quiet morning.

And then I get to the studio around 9, 10 o'clock, depending on the day, but I'm drafting most of the day. Like I'm drafting a huge chunk of my day.

Christian Solorzano [26:18]

Do you consider your work to be either autobiographical or semi-autobiographical? How much of yourself do you see in the work? And is that something that you think about?

Jonathan Nesci [26:31]

Oh, I don't dwell on it. I don't think about it, but they are all my babies. I haven't taken any of them out of production since the beginning. So to me, they're kind of markers of time. I can look back to who I was when I made it and kind of like this, the stats of my BMX bike. I can tell you what month and year and what was going on during each moment. So through each design, they've really kind of marked time.

Like the first piece, the first coffee table was 2 waterjet quarter-inch plates of steel. They slotted together. Okay. So I learned how to order the material and how to get something waterjet cut. The next step was, ordering the material, waterjet cutting, and bending it. And then the next one was adding powder coat to that or a finish. So every step was like built on the one before it. And I can, and before then I would have to build, I didn't have any design engineer.

It was, it was me and CAD, so I would build in like little Vs in the cut file to tell the press brake guy where to bend it. And, so there was like all these little moments that kind of added up, but, I've been full-time since, early 2009. And I stopped selling vintage furniture as a supplement in 2012. And then I just cut it cold turkey. I just really kind of focused on one.

Christian Solorzano [28:08]

Is there something that you want people to take away from the experience of interacting with your work? Because an example would be, I've seen the desk that you did called Rick's Desk. And to me that embodies a it embodies something that feels Rick, for example. Like when I see that, I'm like, that feels Rick. And with other pieces that you do, is there this embodiment that you want people to walk away with when they look at or experience some of your work?

Jonathan Nesci [28:47]

I'm ultimately, I'm doing out of my own curiosity. So I'm scratching an internal itch and kind of really hoping that it resonates with other people. I mean, the kind of the, some of the principles based in it are not giving it all away. And when you look at it, like how it was produced what are the materials? Where are the connections? How is this thing held together? I like to, I like to kind of hide the process.

So if I'm nerding out to one of my peers, I'm gonna go, really deep in how it's produced, but it's not something I talk about to my clients. It's just something, but that I'm not intentionally creating a mystery. I just like the clarity that all these parts became a whole and it's reading as a whole and not the parts. And it's, even though I'm using the industrial process, there's not a lot of these fabrication shops want large-scale production or a lot of something, quantity.

So there, it's really kind of a, it's really a quest to find people that are willing to work with you and alongside you. And I've had so many fabricators that have been so generous with their, learning from their skillset too. They're, they've really kind of helped me understand the process and the machines. But it, I know I'm an acquired taste, like I'm not for everyone and I'm totally okay with that.

Christian Solorzano [30:20]

And what have been some of the environments or locations that you've seen your work in that have maybe taken you by surprise? Is there, as you're working through your, through your work, do you do you envision it in someone's home, in someone's outdoor space? Is that something that runs through your mind?

Jonathan Nesci [30:43]

Yeah, I'm really creating it for me. And I think the really fun part is, before 2018, I did, I worked with a lot of galleries worldwide, Rotterdam, Copenhagen, Chicago, New York. Like it was, so you would create a body of work that you would show. And that, that's I saw on your website that you're a, you're a meditator. It was meditation that really kind of helped me clarify what I like and don't like about that process.

So in 2017, 2018, I started doing like a, like a TM type of Meditation. And through that process, it just really focused on like, who am I and what do I, what really makes me happy? And like the show part of it, you're putting on a show, and it, to me, it the, I like the cooperative collaborative nature of what I'm doing now. I mostly sell to the trade and have been since 2017, '18.

So an interior designer, an architect, a creative director, there's a lot of different clients, but I'm now part of their fabric. So I like creating my work and then seeing how, what they do with it.

And that's, it feels more sustainable, but it also, I like being part of kind of a larger body of team and like this with the, with the fabricators to the shippers to, the end users have very little interaction with the person actually buying it. And they're really kind of a, it's a tight circle of friends and collaborators. And I like that energy that I don't have to kind of, and I'm not selling my work then.

They're selling the work, which is, and they know, they know it's kind of a team effort and I'm in it with them. And I like that. A lot more.

Christian Solorzano [32:57]

Yeah. And as you, and I'm just the thing that I keep coming back to is I'm just really curious about the mental state of someone as they're working through something. And I'm, and I'm curious about as you are in your deep focus state, engaging intimately with your work, is there something that you see or feel like the work is teaching you about yourself, like as a person, like beyond the technicalities and the engineering and the process.

What personal lessons or personal growth has your design work taught you? Talk to us a little bit about that personal reflection that you see and you experience as you're working.

Jonathan Nesci [33:46]

Yeah. With CNC parts, you can upload a CNC part online and then a box shows up to your door 4 weeks later. And it really kind of pulls the fun out of it. If you're thinking, I'm always thinking about play as a huge part of it. So I'm alone most of the day. So I have this 2,000-square-foot studio at my brother's farm.

6 minutes from the house. I'm here all day long, and then I pop in and out of worlds. And so I'll pop to the metal shop and I'm there for 15 minutes and understanding the process, understanding the issues. So being able, without that, it kind of pulls a lot of the fun out of it. So it really, I do like, I love people.

I love interacting with people, but I'm very, conscious of my energy and I have energy for, I have energy stored for short, meaningful things. And like if, and that value is so important to me of having this broad network of people that is where it's, it really is I'm more of a, I'm a producer of my own work. Versus a painter or an artist that is physically making it.

And I don't, I think the authorship is, I don't think you can take away our authorship from the producer. I wrote an article for an architecture journal. One of my friends in Kansas City asked me to write, and that journal was about craft. And the title of mine was Craft Surrogates.

Where like it doesn't make it less my baby than because I didn't physically make it. So it really has changed how it's more, it's the efficiencies of it, but also like not just designing the work, but designing how you wanna live in your day-to-day life. I think that's, I'm trying to strike a balance with all of it.

Where it's not, where like I stay up, I stay close with my friends and I might not have the energy to go on a trip to Alaska with them, but I can have lunch. I think there's a balance that I'm always trying to strike of what I have to give. And, early last year, my therapist told me to get diagnosed for autism. And I was like, what? What are you talking about? And like 0 to 50, 29, you're on the spectrum.

And mine was like a 44, like I won the whole game or something. So that was like really the impetus of moving outside of Columbus. I was there for 11 years, is you step out the front door and you're going to know 50 to 70 people. Like it's just, it's a town of 50,000. It's a city of 50,000 people. So, and if you're in the architecture design world, it's tiny.

So like that realization of, I can solve problems with metal, but can I— it became a problem to solve. I love all these people, these are all my friends, but I have to change my environment too. Because it really is an energy game. That is, the inputs can be overwhelming. So by changing my environment, I'm just so calm and relaxed now. And I, at the end of the day, me and my wife and our little Enzo, we watch the sunset as a ritual on Lake Michigan.

And it really is a, now I'm really seeing it as a balance of energy. And I don't want employees. I don't want, I have no employees. I have no overhead or very little overhead. So the efficiency, like creating value from what you have, but also staying at a point of growth.

Christian Solorzano [38:00]

Yeah. And I wanna, I wanna bring up 2 words and have you respond to them. One of them is faith and the other one is hope. And I'd like to hear what those 2 words mean to you.

Jonathan Nesci [38:14]

Yeah. I mean, it's, I mean, I grew up in kind of a fundamentalist Baptist upbringing and it gave me a foundation where all the information was there, but it was run through the lens of kind of dogma and rules. And I just hate rules. I like, it's like making my own rules.

So it became, the faith part became more of just so much serendipity and so much so many crazy opportunities that would show up that, I mean, I have a million stories that I've learned to kind of rely on that little spark inside of you instead of it being outside of you. And that's, it's even early on, there was like, there's something about, it would be trying to find clues along the way in geometries or what is all this?

And, even kind of fractals in nature, like there's all these clues and trying to like puzzle it all together and how it applies to your own perspective. And, kind of learning to trust it too, like trying to do things out of love and removing fear and having passion be the driver. Like I, I'm never bored. I have so many ideas that I want to explore.

Just last week, I found a fabricator in Chicago that has a 20-foot by 40-foot high-def plasma with an angled head, like where the— it could actually cut at an angle enormous sheets of metal. I am nerding out of like what application. I have a couple right now. That I'm working on and like how I just want to see what it could do and then from there learn from it.

But like hope is just, I hope I can do this and till the day I die, I don't want to, I want to kind of endlessly explore forever and just stay in that curious state of what's possible.

Christian Solorzano [40:26]

And can you share with us, as someone that is Creating these objects that take up space, that enhance space. What can you talk to us about your space and maybe some of your, some of the things that you either collect or that you like to surround yourself with? I'm curious about that.

Jonathan Nesci [40:54]

Yeah. When I worked at Wright, I knew all these designers for their, lights and furniture pieces that I made just to kind of move to Columbus and realize Harry Weese was not a lighting designer or a furniture designer. He was an architect. And I saw all these works, by Saarinen and Weese and Turi and I.M.

Christian Solorzano [41:22]

Pei.

Jonathan Nesci [41:22]

And I saw the whole— and I think the Miller House in Columbus is this like kind of miniature version of it where I was in a design bubble world. And it wasn't until I moved there where I saw that in the Miller House, it was landscape architect by Dan Kiley, interior designer by— was Alexander Girard. Saarinen and Kevin Roche did the house. There was a Monet on the wall and a Stradivarius in the— it was all these cultural worlds.

And not in a life, in a world, where these things all crossed. And that really opened up, one of the highest art forms, in my opinion, is architecture, where these hold all these creative forms. So like that, my time there kind of changed my life and seeing things holistically and not all these little parts. It kind of pulled it all together for me where it wasn't, I'm in the design world. It's, I don't need to put a label on what I do.

It's really part of a broader creative practice, but I love these little sub-worlds. I love being connected to them all, but also being in my own Jonathan Nesci world. So.

Christian Solorzano [42:44]

And what's your relationship today to Your upbringing, do you still, you said you grew up in Oak Lawn. Do you still visit that part of your life? Do you still, I'm curious about that connection there.

Jonathan Nesci [42:59]

Yeah. My parents are doing well. They still live in Oak Lawn. We grew up in an early '20s kind of larger Chicago traditional bungalow. It was the oldest house on the block, so it was kind of like the environment was really good. Like my mom always had a, it was all like white oak trim and clay brick. So there was, the environment was, she would always say it was real, like something real versus faux. So I'm really, I talk to them often. We're close.

Organized religion. I have no interest in organized religion. I feel like it's a really kind of individual journey. But yeah, I don't get to Oak Lawn that much often. I kind of stay now in my little 10-minute bubble around Michiana Shores. But I'm constantly like, architecture's become a quest to, if I'm feeling stuck, if I'm feeling like, I don't have it in front of me. A trick that I've learned in the last year or 2 is I just, I do something novel.

I see something I haven't seen before. I found out there's a Richard Neutra house in June Acres. He did most of his work on the West Coast, so that was kind of surprising. There's a Frank Lloyd Wright house over there. I recently went to St. Joe's just to see a George Rickey sculpture on a wall. And it, or I went to me and my wife climbed a dune a few months ago. I was just having a bad morning.

I'm like, all right, instead of wasting the day, I'm going to snap out of it, do something new. And that always brings me back. It's just that I think part of the kind of Asperger's thing is a dopamine issue. So and my work is from idea to execution could take 3 to 5 months. So it's a slow process. The my environment really kind of has to feed me and the 3D printer's running all the time.

It's a steady flow of at least bringing the idea into a physical form and sitting with it. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [45:20]

And is there something that people don't, that people what's something about you that people, that would surprise people to learn about you?

Jonathan Nesci [45:30]

Kind of put into words recently, but I think I'm a, I'm a formalist where the form drives everything and I'm open to scale and material and finish. And I, and there's, there is a collaboration with the client. Pretty much all my work now is made to order. So, and it's made kind of bespoke for the home or location it's landing. I like having the scale of it work in the space.

Like a lot of times I'm, all those different things I'm really open to kind of variations and permutations of an idea. I like developing systems and then working within the constraints of the rules I set up in the system. I mean, maybe people can see that obviously, but it took me a while to kind of figure that out, of to put it into words.

Christian Solorzano [46:28]

Speaking of systems, can you talk with us, to us about 100 Variations?

Jonathan Nesci [46:35]

Oh, sure. That was my introduction to Columbus. There's an independent curator in Indianapolis named Christopher West who had an idea for, Venice has their art and architecture biennial, and he did a, these kind of case studies of biennials and thought, what other, what better place than Columbus to do a design biennial? So he asked me to ask a friend if they wanted to do the pilot for this idea. I was like, I don't think I can ask. That's a big ask.

But I told him I would do it. So, I pitched a concept where there was kind of 2 nods. One was a nod to Donald Judd's 100 Boxes at Marfa. It was like 100 variations within the same constraint. Martino Gomper, Italian designer, did 100 Chairs in 100 Days. There was like something kind of complete about 100. It was a one, 100% is a complete number.

So I kind of, there's so much in the soup, it's not, I'm kind of collecting ideas, but for that one, I was a couple years, maybe 3 years into discovering the proportions of the golden ratio and kind of the fractal nature of it where a golden ratio can go, kind of eternally macro and then eternally micro. So this same idea can translate scale, or this proportion can translate scale.

So I designed a system, a grid system of, to do 100 different forms using the same system, each one unique. And, they all have their own kind of personality. And then I created a number system so that I knew I wasn't duplicating them. That kind of put a serial number to each form. And then, so I pitched the idea.

I was like about to pitch the idea and a local architect in Columbus, I was like, I want to do 100 mirror-polished tables in this sunken courtyard of Eliel Saarinen's First Christian Church. And he's like, that was a reflecting pool, right? And they filled it in. And I was like, no. So it was almost like another kind of like almost like you're tapping into something larger, like where, like for 3 days it was a temporary exhibit.

It was, it was just to be a pilot to kind of show this idea of a contemporary artist or designer working in the backdrop of an important piece of architecture. So we pitched this idea. Well, Christopher pitched this, the idea to 3 organizations in Columbus, and it was funded in a week. The whole thing was funded. I was like, what is this place where an idea can go, can move so quickly?

So mid-pitch, mid-pitch, I found a house for rent, and I kind of tricked my wife into having lunch there and then arranged a meeting with the house after lunch. And She's like, I think we're moving to Columbus. So that was summer of 2014. And our kids were in 4th and 5th grade and it was just a great place to raise kids.

Like they rode their bikes to school. All their schools were done by some architecturally significant person. It was just it was a really beautiful environment to raise a family. But that show was, there was no Finances for, to pay for my time and all of that. Where, so I negotiated where I owned 100 tables after the show. And those tables have become currency for all sorts of projects in Columbus, but also trading with friends.

So I've got a great art and design collection in this kind of trade. But and then that went on to be Exhibit Columbus, where they're now in their— they're now 12 years old and doing well. I had dinner with their team last night. They were in Michigan City. So it's— that show really was a big one for me. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [51:02]

That's exciting.

Jonathan Nesci [51:03]

And it was all made locally with a fabricator called Nobla Fabricating, and that opened up a great relationship with Kurt and Michelle Aiton, they own this shop and they just let me have a desk within the office. I didn't work there, I just had a desk there. So instead of working from home, I would go there. And Wright was a great education for design, that was a year and a half of being in a metal shop mid-design.

It's like I could— mid-design, I could go to the laser guy or the press brake guy or the welder and ask technical questions that could inform how the work was being made. So that was a great experience and learned a lot about what was possible with a design engineer. So the form is one thing, but then knowing how to make it and then getting it into blueprint form so that it could be translated through the process. I learned a ton about.

I met a design engineer there that he moonlit for me for 8 years. I kind of growing along the way. That's a huge part. So that's kind of part of the network of fabricators, clients, the city of Columbus. Like I'm trying to connect dots that normally wouldn't connect to produce something.

Christian Solorzano [52:27]

And as you look to the to the future of— so as you look to the future of design and creativity and the act of making, what do you— how do you see it evolving with, in regards to technology, the state of the world? Do you, do you, have you noticed that design has shifted? In its way of responding or in its way of existing? Have you noticed your work evolve? I don't know, over the last—

Jonathan Nesci [53:09]

The tool, the tools are changing, but, you can't fully rely on the tool. So it's there's so much input where like before I would have to pay someone to do a rendering. And I mean, it was just, it was kind of like mowing the grass. I didn't want to do this. This is like, I need something quick and I don't, I can't wait 2 weeks for a rendering.

So now I'll design something in 3D, find an image I want to overlay it on, put it in KeyShot and get a rendering. And then I'll use AI for final finish and shadowing and kind of the Enough to get the idea where I can communicate it. But I think it's— there's still so much craft involved and there's so much relationships involved in getting the work made where I don't think that'll change.

That seems— it's just from metal shop to metal shop, there's so many different ways to how they prefer to have it engineered, or how the order of operations could shift. Some shops can't do final finish. It's a real kind of quest. But the big change in the last 6 years has been the scale of it. We're like, I'm realizing it was, I was an artist throughout that whole process and kind of did an artistic chair.

But, now removing the human body as a, as a, proportion to the human body, furniture has to act to a certain level for it to function. I'm 6 years into my sculpture practice and I feel like a kid again. It's so much fun, like using, it's almost like the design was training me to be a sculptor. So that's been had some good early successes with that and the momentum's building on it.

So it removes the— I think I have some in front of me that I printed. Oh, okay. So this is, this is a wall, like this is 2 forms that started off as a folded sheet of paper that I draft. And then, so I feel the idea works here, but then it also works here. And I think the, I like the idea that an idea is totally scalable.

Like it works as a maquette, as a tabletop sculpture, but then that same idea can change materials and be a 20-foot tall sculpture. Like to me, that's so much fun to think in those terms of a bar stool is 20, is 30 inches tall and the counter stool is 26 inches tall. And a chair is 16 to 18 inches tall. I like that where I can really rely on material craft and proportion versus having scale be a variable.

Christian Solorzano [56:17]

And then what's your relationship to color? 'Cause I, you do have some pieces in at least that I, that I've seen that do have color, but many of them don't. Can you talk to us about your relationship to color?

Jonathan Nesci [56:34]

Yeah, it really depends now that it's kind of made to order. It's really depending on the environment that it's gonna land in.

And that it's appropriate. So I've done these really kind of clean wall-mounted nightstands and, these clean waxed aluminum pieces. I had a client recently who's working on this really like wild house in LA and he wanted them in hot pink. And I was like, let's do it. But if you ask me to move that line a quarter inch, I'm going to tell you no. But then there's like things with color and finish.

There's like different textures that you can do in the color that I— so it's not just, I'm open to any color. It's, I'm open to the dialogue of being part of the fabric of— and these are interior designers that are like, Architecture Digest top 100. It's like, it's not, it's like I respect their craft and they're being completely them and allowing me to be me in that process. And then how these things overlap, the Venn diagram of that feels a collaboration.

So I'm like, there's, I'm pretty, I did a, like a really cool purple cabinet just not so long ago. So I'm really open to it and there's different ways to do it.

Earlier this year, I got a commission to do 2 hanging sculptures in the, in the middle of a new elementary school in Columbus. So Columbus is kind of continuing this legacy of, investing in good design. And they had really Cummins diesel engines would pay the architecture fees for these public buildings. So this is designed by Howler Yoon out of Boston.

And so then to have these 2 hanging sculptures in an elementary school in this building in Columbus, my friend Tricia is the architecture archivist in Columbus, and she made a recommendation of this Alexander Girard color pattern, this like 2-color tone. So these 2 sculptures will be anodized milled aluminum. In these 2 Gerard colors in the school. So for a school, that feels super appropriate? So it really depends because it's made for the place it's gonna be in. It, I'm really open.

I want it to feel like it belongs there. I want it to feel like it's a place somehow, the parts become a whole.

Christian Solorzano [59:14]

Beautiful. Well, thank you so much, so much for sharing. How often do you find yourself making your way into Chicago?

Jonathan Nesci [59:24]

A couple times a month. Now that it's an hour away, it's so easy compared to a 3.5-hour drive from Columbus. So I'm there often. I'll be— there's a couple new metal shops that I'm looking to explore soon. But when I'm there, it's very energy efficient. It's in and it's out. And, I really value kind of the one-to-one relationship versus the CMDC world. I really like kind of a focused reason.

So I'm there often, a lot of friends, and it's been fun kind of finding, being closer to friends, creative friends in Chicago too has been nice. Just having, being connected to peers, but not just kind of a one's a sculptor and a musician, and the other one is a graphic designer. And kind of like Columbus, I love when these worlds kind of cross and connect. So I'm happy to be back in the region.

Christian Solorzano [60:24]

Beautiful.

Jonathan Nesci [60:26]

Well, yeah, hopefully coming out this way, reach out.

Christian Solorzano [60:30]

Yeah, I'd love— I'm really curious about your space. Like I can see your background right now, but I'm sure there's so much more to Here, I'll give you a little view.

Jonathan Nesci [60:44]

This was my big, my big move was this 6-foot window overlooking the field.

Christian Solorzano [60:48]

That's beautiful.

Jonathan Nesci [60:49]

That's been, my brother bought a farm 6 minutes from the house. It's just a big old monitor. This is my meditation space. And then kind of my, this is my like living room space. And like kind of my mess of a, of a table and library and 3D printer. So it's been it's just a, it's a, it feels like I feel very fortunate to have this space cuz it's really kind of changed how I think.

Christian Solorzano [61:23]

Nice. I dig it. Beautiful.

Jonathan Nesci [61:27]

Yeah. Reach out if you're in the area. It'd be good to connect in person.

Christian Solorzano [61:31]

Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thanks again so much. And like I said, we'll be publishing this episode in a little over a week, so I'll we'll keep in touch. And then—

Jonathan Nesci [61:49]

Yeah, thanks, Christian. Nice to talk with you.

Christian Solorzano [61:51]

And then I think that's yeah, I think that's it. And then I do, I do wanna mention that this is unrelated to the podcast, but we're gonna be starting a, our new publication, our 4th issue of our magazine. And as we start to brainstorm what this issue's theme is gonna be, I think it'd be cool to feature some of your work in it.

Jonathan Nesci [62:15]

Oh, thank you. Thanks for reaching out, Christian. I appreciate it. All right. Well, I'll see you around.

Christian Solorzano [62:23]

See ya.

Jonathan Nesci [62:24]

Bye. Thank you, man. Bye for now.

Christian Solorzano [62:25]

Thank you for sticking around till the end. If you enjoy conversations like these, we appreciate when you leave us a rating wherever you listen. Thank you so much for the support. We'll talk to you soon. Goodbye.