Christian Solorzano [00:05]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a podcast by the Chicago Graphic Design Club dedicated to bringing you conversations with Chicago's creative leaders. On this podcast, we'll explore the craft, theory, and practice of graphic design, plus discuss bold ideas that push the boundaries of what's possible and ways in which we can create a more thoughtful and inclusive community. To learn more about us, visit our website at www.chicagographicdesign.club or find us on social media. Special thanks to the Chicago band Eighties Slang for our theme music. So, hello.

Today I'm your host, Christian Solorzano, and I'm filled with joy to be speaking with Lashun Tines. In 2004, he graduated from Northern Illinois University with a BA in graphic design. Since then, he's worked at VSA Partners, Leo Burnett, Razorfish, and currently he's a Design Director at Wieden and Kennedy. Between 2014 and 2018, he was a Diversity Lead for AIGA Chicago. And in addition, he's the founder of the Art of Blackness, whose mission is to celebrate and highlight African American creatives working today. So welcome, Lashun.

Lashun Tines [01:32]

Thank you for having me.

Christian Solorzano [01:33]

It's a pleasure to be speaking with you. And I know that you were born and raised in Chicago, and growing up you wanted to be a comic book artist. And I see behind you have some comic book Comic book artwork. Yes. So it's pretty impressive that as a kid, you sort of already had an ambition to be a creative, and it's not surprising given the work that you're doing today.

So could you tell us a little bit about what it was like growing up in Chicago and sort of like what your childhood was like? I learned that you got kicked out of high school.

Lashun Tines [02:13]

Oh, your research is deep. I don't even know how you found that out.

Christian Solorzano [02:16]

And I'm bringing that up because I got kicked— I didn't get kicked out of high school, but my friends and I, we used to get kicked out of middle school all the time. So I could relate. And I actually, I dropped out of high school. So my whole relationship with like, high school, middle school is sort of not the shining star type. So tell us a little bit about sort of your upbringing.

Lashun Tines [02:43]

Wow, that is crazy. Nobody's been able to discover that. It was really just a reflection of there not being an academic course that was, applicable to what I wanted to do as far as illustration or been in the comic book industry.

There wasn't a pathway For people who had, interests outside of the service industry, particularly for schools in Chicago, it was generally like you could be a teacher, you could be a police officer, maybe you can get a factory job because factory jobs are still a thing then. So yeah, there wasn't a lot of interest on my part on what they were offering. So you know how some kids just will get bored with class and school.

If there isn't anything that's of particular interest to them, it was kind of like one of those situations.

Christian Solorzano [03:44]

Got it. And what was like that turning point where you where you became interested in following a path, like a creative path, and actually making it, transforming it into a career?

Lashun Tines [03:56]

Yeah, I think, I think probably for me, getting kicked out of high school was one of the best things that happened to me in my life because my friends during the time we're into all kinds of stuff, like all kinds of salacious behavior. So the separation that occurred once I left the high school really was the beginning of the second act for me as a teenager. I was like, well, what am I interested in? What do I want to do?

Christian Solorzano [04:29]

Yeah.

Lashun Tines [04:29]

Well, once I left the high school or got kicked out or left involuntarily, then I went back to high school. I went to an alternative high school. And I went to night school, so I was, taking 2 courses. And I had like a zillion jobs. So the focus just changed once I left a certain crowd in a certain environment.

Christian Solorzano [04:53]

Very similar to my story. I certainly did not hang out with the, with the, with the most positive crowd growing up and luckily I was able to make it out.

Lashun Tines [05:10]

Yeah. Sometimes it's the environment that leads to certain behaviors and you don't realize how much of an impact the environment has until you remove yourself from it. Exactly.

Christian Solorzano [05:22]

So then you go to Northern Illinois University to study graphic design. What was that transition like? I remember when I, when I went to, when I, when I first went to college, it was almost like a culture shock. To see and to be immersed in a space where there's other people that are interested in the things that I'm interested in. And it sort of like, it like flipped a switch in my head.

And I realized that school could actually be a place to learn things that you're interested in. So what was it like for you?

Lashun Tines [05:53]

It was exactly the same thing. It was like, you're finding your creative tribe. Which is important to self-development. When I went to my first on-campus tour, I was super excited. It's like, oh yeah, this is it right here? But this is what I've been waiting for.

You have peace and you have safety and the academic course— well, the academic pathway that you didn't have in high school you can certainly find it in college. So I found a lot of friends who were into the arts and, that kind of propelled things forward.

Christian Solorzano [06:34]

Yeah. And I, and I've noticed that you're, based on your like roster of experience and things that you've done throughout the years, you seem to be pretty ambitious and you're always doing various things, getting a lot of experience. Has that ambition or that like spirit always been a part of you, or has that taken some time to sort of hone in on?

Lashun Tines [07:00]

Well, what I, what I try to explain to or share with younger graphic designers these days, particularly African American designers, is that when I graduated from college, they weren't necessarily offering African American design jobs. So to even be in the industry, you had to freelance, right? And to be a freelancer as an African American, you have to be particularly good. You could be like average. You have to be, as Kanye West would say, dope or cold or whatever Chicago slang you want to use.

So you have to be like, if everybody else was here, you have to be here just to be a freelancer. So yeah, I think I answered your question.

Christian Solorzano [07:43]

Yeah. So to that point, you served as the Diversity Lead for AIGA Chicago for some time. And I think diversity and inclusion has been something that I continue to see more organizations emphasize and talk about. Obviously, it's incredibly important because representation matters in the industry. So what was some of the work that you were doing with AIGA Chicago during those years?

And how have you been able to sort of take your experiences and perhaps to your point, having to, work extra hard to sort of just have a foot in the door?

Lashun Tines [08:26]

Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [08:27]

How has that transitioned into your project like the Art of Blackness or also your Diversity Lead experience?

Lashun Tines [08:33]

I think what was really the onset of, my endeavors and in the field of diversity and inclusion was I was the PR chair for Chicago Urban League's Metropolitan Board. So it was like the young professional board. And I joined particularly because I had this fear of speaking in front of audiences. I would just clam up. So I wanted to, learn how to be more comfortable with speaking in front of a crowd or an audience.

And while I was at the Urban League, there was a professional development aspect that came along with the committee positions. Everybody had to do it. And that, gave me the confidence and the insight that, I didn't have to just be a participant in the lack of diversity in Chicago. I could be a driving force in the change. Right. So it kind of gave me the confidence to do the Art of Blackness and to step into the AIGA role.

Christian Solorzano [09:44]

And what were some of the, tactical initiatives that you were driving or involved in?

Lashun Tines [09:51]

Yeah, it wasn't like rocket science. It was more like, hey, you guys don't have any diversity whatsoever.

I remember a time looking through the yearly publications that they would drop for AIGA Chicago, and you wouldn't see one Black person. Or you might see one. So inclusion for me consisted of creating events that were specifically inclusive. So part of accomplishing that was knowing who the designers in Chicago were of African American descent who could bring out crowds or who AIGA didn't really know about but should know about.

So maybe we would do like a brand and brew or Amaya Iman or Jade Purple Brown, people that I was super familiar with, but they may not have known. So including those kind of people in events and spotlights was kind of one way that— one route to increase awareness.

Christian Solorzano [10:56]

Yeah. And what would you say were people's reactions or responses to seeing sort of another side to the community that often doesn't get, the attention that it deserves?

Lashun Tines [11:09]

Sometimes people will cry. Yeah, sometimes we would have events and you'd have an African American designer and they would, they would just start crying. It was pretty impactful. Yeah, because they finally felt like they had a space in this esteemed organization where they weren't necessarily feeling welcome at first. Yeah. Finally, I can, I can be a part of this, that kind of thing. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [11:37]

And today, what is some of the work that you're currently doing? I see that you're a design director and what, what's some of the, some of the projects or work that you, that you get an opportunity to do or work on?

Lashun Tines [11:49]

Oh man, it's like it's the kind of clients we have are insane. So I've done some identity design for Sieren Williams and Alexis Ohanian, Alexis Ohanian's company, 776. I've done some campaign work for Nike. We're doing— we're currently— well, I can't say what we're currently working on, but I can say we did some branding and some ad pieces or films, as we call them, for EA Sports. So even helping Amazon to launch their Thursday Night Football. On Prime.

So a lot of really big projects, Super Bowl ads, the whole shebang.

Christian Solorzano [12:35]

And how does that translate from like some of the work that you, that perhaps like you dreamed of doing as a kid? I think sometimes when speaking for myself, when I was younger and I got into graphic design, it was mostly as a like method of expression and like arts. And it was obviously a big, a big shock when you're working in the industry and you realize that the work that you do isn't always the most exciting, or there's just so many different pieces to it.

So much logistics. What is that like working in on some of these really big projects?

Lashun Tines [13:17]

It's actually super fulfilling, man. You can't believe that you're in a room with certain people sometimes, and, your opinion is, valued, and they're looking for your opinion and looking for your cultural insights. I think that's specifically why— how I got to Wieden. When they dropped the ping to have a discussion about me moving out to Portland, it was because of the Art of Blackness and AIGA's Diversity Board and the Chicago Urban League.

Those kind of experiences are what they were looking for because at Wieden, we feel that cultural insights drive greater work. Yeah. Versus in like some places in Chicago where you have to like, put those cultural insights in your back pocket. Our culture drives business and it drives creativity.

Christian Solorzano [14:17]

And what do you, what do you think specifically about the culture makes it, makes it what it is? Is there anything specific that you guys do, or is it just the team, the team and the people that are, that you're working with?

Lashun Tines [14:30]

Well, when people can bring their culture and their experiences to the table, there's a relaxation that happens and there's an ease of sharing ideas. Like you can come and be yourself, whoever that self is. And contribute, from a, from a pure place, from a place of vulnerability and insight where it isn't driven by wanting to fit in. You're not required to fit in, right? Like you are in certain places.

You can come as you are and you'll naturally share your insights when you have that level of comfort.

Christian Solorzano [15:08]

And I think it's even incredibly important when, for younger professionals, when they're joining teams and just making them feel like their opinion matters. Because I've been in situations where it's been— I've been on both spectrums where it's really great and, new people feel like they could participate and contribute. And then other places where there's just like more of like a very hard hierarchy of like, this is, this is your place and you stay there.

So what advice would you have to someone that is perhaps like starting out in the industry and perhaps is like struggling to find their voice or to make their voice heard?

Lashun Tines [15:47]

Ooh, that is a good question. What I mean, I think it probably goes back to what the story I was sharing about finding my tribe in college. I think finding an environment where you're comfortable and where you feel welcome and where you can perform as your highest self is super important. And if you're not in that space, you're never going to be able to fully be comfortable with expressing your creativity or your opinion.

So it is very important to vet the places that you want to be at and get a real sense of what the culture is like. Yeah, make a decision based on that, because if you go to the right place, then they'll naturally offer mentorship and want to hear your opinion and want you to share your thoughts and your ideas. But, if you don't, then you'll always be in this space of not feeling welcome. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [16:46]

Yeah, I agree. But it's also— I also feel like it's— there's also responsibility from the people that are in those leadership positions to go out of their way and to, open doors and to create safe spaces for people. So, and I think sometimes that makes— that, that's what makes the most difference. And I guess a question that I have for you is based on, based on sort of like the trajectory that you've had and where you're at now.

What are some— what's some advice as like a design leader that you would have for other design leaders that are in those positions to, impact a younger professional?

Lashun Tines [17:36]

Oh, that's an interesting question because for me, like mentorship and lending a helping hand is kind of like integral to who I am. And I don't necessarily know if it's the same thing for everyone. Some people just give the— they kind of give you the feeling that they don't care about mentoring or building up young designers. And that goes back to the piece I said earlier about finding the right environment.

Yeah, if you run across one of those kind of people, then you're always going to have those issues with them. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [18:17]

Do you think it's possible to teach leaders or to teach people to, I guess, to care or to want to mentor? Or do you think that's something that just comes from the inside and that's just who you are as a person?

Lashun Tines [18:32]

I think it's who you are as a person. Okay. I've definitely met some people who could care less. Yeah, sure. When they had the opportunity to actually care more, their choice was not to care at all. So I think as an organization, right, it's probably better to answer that from an organizational perspective. You hire people who are interested in building talent and giving back in a meaningful way. That should be a goal, right?

Then you don't have to worry about your leaders not caring because you've built a culture of people who do care. And that'll lift up, even if you have people who don't care, if you have like 5 leaders who do care, the 6th person will naturally be inclined to want to gravitate toward that perspective. Right. Well, it's more of an organizational thing.

Christian Solorzano [19:28]

Yeah. And what do you, what do you think is that so when you are building teams and when you are creating that culture, what are some of those like key things to look out for in people when you're hiring them on, whether as, a junior designer or someone that's more senior?

Lashun Tines [19:45]

I think it's, for me, like my particular way of approaching projects is to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to share their specific talent. Like some people may be great at presenting. Okay, well, great. You present, concepts. Some people are great at illustration. Some people are great at art direction and finding photography.

So you pay specific attention to your team and what they're really good at, and you let those talents shine, and you offer opportunities for the things that they're not as strong as— strong in— to for them to work on those things. Yeah. So even if they're not comfortable speaking, you put them in a position where they have to say a little bit. You don't have to go overboard, but we want you to definitely get in a position where you start to speak a little bit more.

Christian Solorzano [20:40]

Yeah. And do you have any stories of perhaps a time where someone, pushed you to maybe do something that was a little bit out of your comfort zone?

Lashun Tines [20:49]

Oh yeah, my mentor from Gus Granger would always say to me, even if you're not ready for a project, you should take it on anyway, because it's an opportunity for growth. I thought about that bit a little over this past week. I was just reminiscing on some of those experiences. Wow, I was super over my head. Did it anyway. But yeah, I think that's solid advice.

Christian Solorzano [21:13]

Yeah. I remember there was one time where I had just, I had just started a new job and my coach, my career coach, she encouraged me to go present in front of all of these people. And I had no idea why she was trusting me to do this because it was not a good presentation. And I don't think I don't think anyone thought it was a good presentation.

I think they understood what my coach was doing, and it was that she was trying, she was trying to get me to do something new. And I just remember being so nervous about it, and it was so scary, and it was— and I, and I just, I was a little not pissed off at her, but I was like, why are you making me do this? We didn't agree that I would do this, and you're telling me to do this.

And I did it, and it was one of the most, one of the most transformative experiences that I, that I had in my professional career. And I think sometimes that those little moments like make such a big difference. And I think perhaps sometimes in the moment for that junior person, it might seem like it doesn't make any sense. And they might actually be a little bit like resentful towards you. But then, later on you're like, oh, I get what they were doing.

Lashun Tines [22:26]

And it's yeah, I'm sure in some instances it may, it may come off as you picking on a junior designer. I mean, that's like one of the roles of being a leader is to see where development is needed. And, sometimes if they're not willing to take the leap, to give them like the gentlest of pushes. Over that cliff, that creative cliff.

Christian Solorzano [22:48]

So I was reading something about there's an interview that you did a while ago and you mentioned you were talking about your superpowers. And you mentioned 2 superpowers. One of them was flexibility and the other was intuition. And I think flexibility, I think it's a pretty, it's pretty, I don't know, like I get what you mean when you say flexibility, but I'm very caught up in this word that you use, intuition.

I just want to hear you talk about what intuition means to you and how that relates to the work that you're doing.

Lashun Tines [23:25]

Intuition is important because sometimes when I'm speaking with a client, it requires you to have to read between the lines to really get what they're trying to express. Because some people don't have the vocabulary to even have a discussion about what a creative campaign could or should be. They just don't have the experience, so they're lacking in the vocabulary. So you have to be able to really understand what they're saying. Even if they're not saying it in a way that is super transparent, right?

So just reading between the lines. And, sometimes I'll have a conversation and I'll take my notes and I'll have to sit with it for a while and just, analyze what was really being said?

Christian Solorzano [24:12]

Right.

Lashun Tines [24:12]

So it's almost like a tertiary conversation after the initial conversation. Okay, this is, what they were really trying to express is this and this and this and that and that kind of thing.

Christian Solorzano [24:22]

Yeah. And then, and then talk a little bit, a little bit about flexibility and sort of what that, what that means to you.

Lashun Tines [24:30]

Yeah. I mean, I think that's like a conversation that was based off my freelance career and the ability to just be able to work in any environment, because from studio to studio, you definitely have different work cultures. So able to be flexible at VSA and then go over to a land or specifically, I think what I was talking about during that time.

Christian Solorzano [24:58]

Yeah. Do you have like a criteria of some sort of what kind of projects you like to work on or what things you don't like to do? No, like red flags or like, even like just red flags or like just things that you're like, no way.

Lashun Tines [25:18]

No, I, no, I don't, I don't really. I know a lot of people have that perspective, but I generally don't have that perspective. I look at every campaign or every creative endeavor as an opportunity to learn something new or flex a different creative muscle. So I try not to have that mindset. Maybe that's the unconscious kind of protocol that I have from being a freelancer for so many years. If you have the mindset that you don't want to do certain things, then your opportunities are limited.

But if you have like a mindset of openness, then more opportunities will come available.

Christian Solorzano [25:59]

Yeah, I guess it's almost like having a mindset of abundance.

Lashun Tines [26:03]

Abundance. That's the word.

Christian Solorzano [26:05]

Yeah, I like that. I admire that because yeah, I think what I, what I've, what I've noticed in our industry is that for some, as years go by, your perspective sort of gets jaded based on, certain experiences. And I think that jadedness often leads to, like you were saying, like limited opportunities and you sort of close yourself off on, into other things. So, yeah.

Lashun Tines [26:31]

Yeah. It's having a mindset of abundance is super important. Because the trials and tribulations are always going to come. And if you start off with like, a negative mindset, then it only gets worse. But if you start off with a perspective of abundance, then it creates the opportunity for things to only get better.

Christian Solorzano [26:53]

Yeah, definitely. And I want to hear you speak about your— so in 2011, you started the Art of Blackness. And it was intended to be an exhibition and this space to highlight and celebrate African American voices in the creative arts. And you've held multiple exhibitions that have been really successful. And I wanna hear you speak about that and sort of like what led you to create this project and sort of where that stands today.

And maybe even throughout the past decade now, what have been some of those highlights that you've run into?

Lashun Tines [27:36]

I think it goes back to me joining the Chicago Urban League and, them instilling in all of the members that you don't have to be a passenger.

In discrimination and lack of opportunity. You can actually be a driver of opportunity and inclusion. Right. So again, it goes back to finding your cultural tribe. When I got there, the sense of community, and because everyone was just kind of like starting off, we were all kind of learning together and like encouraging one another. And that's important in your careers to find those kind of people and those kind of opportunities where you have mutual growth in mind and a sense of community in mind as well.

And that led me to be comfortable with even having the idea of doing Art of Black. Once I joined, not doing the Art of Blackness would have seemed like more of a crazy idea. Yeah, not contributing in a meaningful fashion would have been like, oh, you're not, you're not doing anything to help, like that kind of perspective. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [28:44]

Yeah. And throughout this, what would have been like some of those highlights or moments where I know you mentioned a little bit about facilitating certain events where, people were crying because it was, so moving. And I always find those moments where, you recognize that you're making that impact on an individual and they're, coming up to you and expressing, gratitude and all of those nice things. Yeah, just talk a little bit about just an entire decade.

What have been some of those defining moments for you that have shaped your career and your outlook now?

Lashun Tines [29:20]

There are, there are a couple. One of the crowning highlights was definitely getting Emory Douglas from the Black Panthers to participate. Because I was pursuing Emory Douglas for at least 3 or 4 years. And every year it was like, nah, not this year, maybe next year. And then I was like, next year I come back, hey, what about this year? Yeah, not this year. I'm traveling to Africa, maybe next year. And finally he was like, yes. And I was super stoked.

Christian Solorzano [29:48]

Could you tell us about that? What was it like to interact with him. That's— he's one of my design heroes.

Lashun Tines [29:54]

He should be every designer's at least top 10 design heroes. I mean, look, the danger that he faced is, it's almost incomprehensible? He was literally pursued by the FBI during J. Edgar Hoover. Anybody that participated was on a list of people who were being accosted in any number of ways and pursued, and you face the fear of death, just your creativity. And we just work on logos.

Imagine if your art had to sustain an entire movement of people and your life was at risk just because of your art. That's powerful stuff. So he's easily one of my top 10. Design Heroes.

Christian Solorzano [30:45]

So what was there a collaboration between you and him, or how did he participate?

Lashun Tines [30:52]

Or what happened? I just, I just wanted a couple of his pieces for the show, and I wanted to use that as an opportunity to teach young designers who may not know about Emory Douglas. That's one of the components is education. So just to introduce Emory Douglas to an audience who should know about him but wouldn't know about him. Yeah, it was super. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [31:15]

Was it, was it difficult to get a hold of him? I can't even imagine.

Lashun Tines [31:19]

I think it took it looked— it took at least a couple months just to even get his contact info. He flies super under the radar. Good reason. But it took me reaching out to like, I think, AIGA's national board, and then they gave me a number and that person gave me an email. It was like a spy movie almost.

Christian Solorzano [31:39]

Yeah, it's incredible.

Lashun Tines [31:42]

Slide you a note in the cafe.

Christian Solorzano [31:43]

Yeah, I remember when I first ran into his work, I just thought it was such a— so powerful and in a way like threatening, like to so much injustice. And I just love seeing graphic designers use their skills for, yeah, for protest and for action. And obviously, it's— I don't know how to instill that Emory Douglas spirit into the work that perhaps some of us are doing in our corporate work.

But I always try to sneak in little bits and pieces of whether it's being super conscious of the type of photography that is being used in a campaign, or the type of language that's being used. But I think there's certainly so much history, so much rich history that often flies under the radar that I think we could weave into a lot of the work that we're doing or even the spaces that we're occupying. It doesn't always have to be one-to-one.

But do you ever find yourself— how do you connect your inspirations into the work that you're doing that perhaps sometimes is, very corporate and there's stakeholders involved in all of this operation stuff?

Lashun Tines [33:16]

Well, I don't necessarily feel like those 2 endeavors have to be on the same accord. I can do Corporate work from 9 to 5 and then do work for the community, 6 to 10. You can create a space where you're, making your bread and butter, and then, you're going out and giving back to the community as well. Yeah, you don't have to force-feed both of those kind of things.

I know some people do, but I encourage designers all the time, go out and get a pro client, go get a freelance client. Because maybe your 9 to 5 doesn't satisfy your need for creativity in its entirety. Like maybe you're getting like 40 to 60% fulfillment from your 9 to 5. Like you can go out and get that 40 somewhere else and there's probably some places that need your help. So, there's definitely a lot of opportunity there.

Christian Solorzano [34:16]

Yeah. And for you, so you've been in Chicago. Have you lived in Chicago your entire life or did you ever?

Lashun Tines [34:25]

Outside of that brief stint in Portland. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [34:28]

Okay. And as someone that's been in Chicago for such a long time, what are your, what are your observations or your assessments on the creative community today as it stands? And from perhaps like your bird's eye view as a design leader, are there any opportunities or any sort of like call to action that you have for other community leaders as to like things that, we could be doing differently or adopting?

Lashun Tines [35:00]

It's weird because you go to the West Coast and you're hanging out in Portland and you see this really strong push for diversity and inclusion and you see agencies really, putting their best efforts forward and, making sure that they have an inclusive space. And then you come back to Chicago. And you still have agencies that don't have one Black designer. What is Chicago, like 33% Black or something like that? And you can't find one Black designer. It's embarrassing to be so honest.

Came back, oh, you guys are still doing this? Jeez. Yeah, in the wake of George Floyd and the first Black president, you're still struggling with finding one Black designer. I don't even know. And it, and it reflects, I was just thinking about this last week. A lot of Chicago agencies that were once esteemed are failing to, get a foothold in the design, the culture that's going on now.

They're not as prominent as they once were, and you don't see growth because they don't have that inclusion, because now Nowadays, when it comes to advertising design, culture is like a super big insight the client's looking for, right? If you don't have that cultural piece, then they're kind of like, well, why would we work with you? So you see a lot of agencies in Chicago that used to get those clients not really, coming to Chicago agencies anymore. So it starts to impact business.

Christian Solorzano [36:39]

Yeah, I was reading a piece. I forget through what publication, but it was talking about how culturally in the entire world, the biggest driving factor to culture is hip-hop and rap. And how there's just so many corporations that are trying to adopt that like youth culture, African American culture into their brand, into their communications. And I, and I, and I think it's really interesting because I agree. I certainly feel like there's still, we still have a long way to go.

And even for ourselves as a Chicago Graphic Design Club, that's something that we try to like just really be conscious of because we were born as a response to not only the pandemic happening, but also a lot of the comments and just a lot of the feedback that we were collecting that I was noticing about the Chicago design community is that at times it seemed like a very, like a very exclusive table where, you had to work in certain places, you had to know certain people to like be involved.

It's such a big, systemic issue.

Lashun Tines [37:52]

Social media culture and Black creators were created as a response to a lack of opportunity. Right. Specifically in how I promoted the Art of Blackness, I used social media because I had to use social media.

There were no— when we first, in the onset, there weren't any partners who would help with promotion or who were even interested in promotion. So social media for a lot of Black creators was like the only road in. So the proliferation of Black culture on social media is like a direct reflection of that. And organizations who want to, who want a seat at that table can't necessarily get a seat at that table with those insights because they're not hiring Black people.

There is no way around it. Their lack of inclusion is kind of Biting them in the ass at this point. Yeah, because you know now social media is like ten years deep, and they don't have those cultural insights, and they don't have the employees to share or even the leadership capabilities to offer to the clients. So you can see the stagnation and creativity specifically in the social space when it comes to esteemed agencies in Chicago because they've.

They've never opened the door to those employees who were drivers of that cultural revolution. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [39:34]

But do you think that— so earlier today, or earlier in this conversation, we were talking about how mentorship or sort of that desire to help is something that for a lot of people, some either have it or some of them don't.

And I, and I often think about things like diversity and inclusion and whether that's something that could be because I've seen it sometimes where it feels a little bit forced and it just doesn't seem like it's coming from like a place of curiosity and like openness. And it's almost like driven by data and driven by trends. And it's like, hey, we have to do this because the data tells us that.

Yeah. So do you think a solution to that is to just bring in new people or start new projects or to start new companies? Like what, what's a solution, a solution that you could think of for something like that?

Lashun Tines [40:31]

Wow. That's a really good question. I mean, a lot of people may not be aware of this, but with so, with certain organizations, you can't even— they won't even do business with you unless diversity is part of your makeup as an organization. For instance, Facebook requires you to have a certain percentage of not only African American or people of color as your makeup for your employee pool, but, women as well.

You also have to have a certain number of women in leadership positions to even be considered. So there's like this strong financial incentive for people to get their shit together. And you would think that would be enough. I mean, we are in business to make money. And if money is on the table and you don't have access to it because of your policies, I almost feel like your natural inclination would be to change things.

On your own, even with the data that you mentioned about cultural insights, like that's a secondary component of the ROI on inclusion, but even those things aren't enough. So I don't know specifically what the answer is. It's probably like you said, new people coming to the forefront and creating new agencies. That's probably what it is.

Christian Solorzano [41:55]

Definitely. Yeah, that's something because I've been involved in some DEI initiatives in the past, and there's been an occasion where everything is just driven by purely numbers, and it just doesn't seem like it's driven by the human desire to embrace other people and to welcome and create spaces of belonging and whatnot. And I always find that a little bit— I don't know, it's a little bit eerie when people are almost reduced to like, it only matters if there is an ROI. But, I don't know.

It's interesting.

Lashun Tines [42:35]

But there is an ROI.

Christian Solorzano [42:36]

Yeah, there is.

Lashun Tines [42:37]

Yeah, there is.

Christian Solorzano [42:39]

But I think, I mean, there, there's a clear ROI, but first things first, it should be about just being a good person and like welcoming people and just that should be enough in my opinion to like just wanna be a little bit more diverse and inclusive. It's—

Lashun Tines [42:58]

Yeah, it should be enough. But even in the instance where you're not, a humanitarian in that regard, if you're in business as an owner, the financial aspect of it should be enough in ROI. I don't know, I've definitely had some conversations with design leaders in Chicago about this very same thing and the need for inclusion. We've had like very thorough conversations. But in some instances, I haven't really seen like any like action off those conversations.

It was more like, we got to do this, but it's still not being done. I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [43:43]

Yeah. Do you think perhaps it's due to people being afraid of change or not wanting to perhaps try something differently?

Lashun Tines [43:55]

Or it's probably— maybe it is fear.

Christian Solorzano [43:58]

Yeah, maybe.

Lashun Tines [43:58]

Yeah, maybe it's— maybe it's the idea that because certain leaders, design leaders, lack that cultural insight, then bringing someone in who does have that cultural insight will put their job in jeopardy. Yeah. It's hard being a top dog and being comfortable with the idea that you have to grow and change, even from this esteemed, level of level or position. It can be a scary thing for people.

I've been killing it for years, and now this new thing is coming along, and I have to learn this new thing and be comfortable with the failures that come along with learning this new thing. Maybe that's part of it.

Christian Solorzano [44:40]

Yeah. And today, what, what's inspiring you, or what's moving you creatively outside of the work that you're doing 9 to 5? What other projects are you working on? What are you listening to?

Lashun Tines [44:57]

What's your world? So outside of the 9 to 5, I try to, if I'm doing like design work, to make it like, community-based. So organizations that are about diversity or, improving the Chicagoland area. I'm working with one organization called facility for colored women doing some identity and branding stuff for those guys. I work with the Silver Room on a pretty regular basis for their block party and like some of their community-based initiatives.

And that kind of keeps me sharp, because sometimes as a design leader you have to be a little more hands-off and you have to open the door for other people to shine, but you still want to get busy as well. You still want to do your thing. So that creates an opportunity for you not to only give back, but also say like, sharp, prepared, and on the forefront. And you can be very experimental with those kind of things as well.

So that, that's an opportunity for you to try new stuff out.

Christian Solorzano [46:01]

And what, and what kind of work are you doing? Is it like branding, like these extracurricular projects? Are you, are you doing brand or—

Lashun Tines [46:10]

It's usually it's usually design and social. Social is like a big component of almost everything these days.

Christian Solorzano [46:18]

Yeah. And what do you, how do you, how do you feel about because I see that you're, you have a, you obviously have an Instagram account and I think social media, something that I always talk about with guests is the fact that it's such a beast and it's such a, it could be a little bit I mean, I think it's like a double-edged sword because it could be very useful and it could also just be like a really big time killer.

So how do you, how do you, how do you balance or like, how do you stay inspired and sort of those things?

Lashun Tines [46:56]

I post like a lot of memes on my Instagram stories. Like it's not really design focused, really shit that makes me laugh on a daily basis. Internally at Wieden and Kennedy, I'm known as like a jokester on Instagram. It's generally not design-focused, but parallel to that, the Art of Blackness account is always like about Black art and insights. So I'm kind of splitting my perspectives in half.

So I have my humor and my fun on my personal page and have those cultural insights on Art of Blackness page.

Christian Solorzano [47:33]

And are there any Chicago designers today that are inspiring you or anyone specifically that you want to call out?

Lashun Tines [47:41]

Oh man who do I love in Chicago? It's always Kyle Poff from Leo Burnett's Department of Design. That's my guy. He's always doing incredible work. I like Mike McCade a lot too. McQuaid. He does killer illustrations. Cody Hudson is always doing like crazy stuff. Like he'll just randomly be at Nike headquarters doing a mural or drop a sneaker line with Nike. And I'm like, wow, that's I remember doing Obama posters with this guy years ago.

Christian Solorzano [48:11]

Yeah. And I, and I know that you started off with a huge passion for comic books. And have you, have you had the chance to do any comic book work or any thoughts on maybe creating a comic book series or a narrative of some, of some sort?

Lashun Tines [48:31]

Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get to that at some point for sure. Yeah, definitely. I definitely write my little stories. So it's all about, being uncomfortable with failing again. Yeah. And putting it out there and sharing those ideas and.

Christian Solorzano [48:48]

Awesome. So we're almost at time, but I, but I do, I do want to ask you like, what are, what are some like not, this is not related to design, but what do you, what are some like Chicago things you like to do? You're from Chicago. Well, what's your— how do you, how do you spend your free time when you're not thinking about work?

Lashun Tines [49:09]

Oh man, I've gotten to become— I, somewhere during the pandemic, I became like a huge foodie. So I'm constantly going to different spots in the city to try out different restaurants. That's pretty much been my thing generally. If I'm not cooking myself, then it's always going out to a restaurant and trying new foods.

Christian Solorzano [49:30]

Do you have a favorite cuisine?

Lashun Tines [49:31]

I think it's lamb chops currently. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [49:35]

Lamb chops.

Lashun Tines [49:35]

Okay. Yeah, cooked some last night. I was in heaven.

Christian Solorzano [49:39]

Awesome. So you're, so you're pretty easy to get ahold of. I'm very confident that a lot of people will get something out of this conversation. So thank you so much. If anyone wants to get ahold of you, what's the best way for people to reach out to you with? With questions or comments or any of that?

Lashun Tines [49:58]

Oh, like one of those kind of like tag drops? Ugh. You have to do it. Can we put the tag in like the description and people can just shoot me an email or something like that?

Christian Solorzano [50:08]

Oh yeah, sure. We could do that. Yeah.

Lashun Tines [50:09]

Oh, you can find me at lashuntinesisonline.com. You can find me in Hyde Park at Starbucks generally at least once a week.

Christian Solorzano [50:18]

And so before we stop this, what are some just words of wisdom that you have for the listener? Our listeners are— we have student listeners, we have working professional listeners, we have educators, enthusiasts. What's this is going to be the quotes for this episode.

Lashun Tines [50:38]

Let's see. Yeah, I think the running theme behind today's conversation has been finding your cultural tribe, like finding your tribe, like the energy that you want to receive in the world the energy that you want to give back to the world. Your tribe will help you to initiate those things and also support you during those hard moments when you're pursuing those passions. You're failing up or you're failing to succeed, your tribe will invigorate you and support you and share ideas and insights.

And in the absence of finding your tribe you'll find yourself sorely lacking in resources and motivation. So I would always say, and if you can't find your tribe, then build your tribe. Yeah, definitely. That's awesome. If it's not one out there to be found, then it's probably your responsibility to build it up.

Christian Solorzano [51:35]

Yeah, for sure. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This was great. And I hope I hope we could do some sort of collaboration in the future. I'd love to work on something with you. The club would like to work on something with you. So I'm definitely looking forward to staying connected.

Lashun Tines [51:51]

Okay, let's do it, man. I'm looking forward to it.

Christian Solorzano [51:54]

Awesome. All right, well, we'll talk soon.

Lashun Tines [51:56]

All right, have a good day.