Christian Solorzano [00:00]

Hello, you are listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and on today's episode, I will be speaking with Mary Foyder, the founder of MF Collaborative and the director of design of Braver Collective, which is an organization that is an online healing community co-designed by, with, and for survivors of sexual trauma.

And she's gonna be talking to us about what trauma-informed design actually means in practice, sharing with us stories from her work with organizations like Power to Decide and the Chicago Department of Public Health, and discussing the complexities of working with vulnerable communities. And Mary originally aspired to be a pilot, but then she discovered graphic design at Western Michigan University. And she's going to be talking about her human-centered approach that is collaborative and that really focuses all on sexual health and reproductive justice.

So it's a great conversation. We'll also hear about the realities of working in social impact spaces that are grant-funded and all of the challenges that come with that, and also running an independent design practice. So it's a great conversation. I think it's a conversation like any others that we've had because we are not exclusively talking about graphic design, but really we're talking about the byproduct of what graphic design is capable of doing when we're talking about making the world a better place. So great conversation.

This is our last episode of 2025, so I look forward to hearing More from other people in 2026. So as always, thank you so much for your support. It means a lot when you leave us a rating and when you share when you share on social media. So thank you so much. Enjoy, and I will see you in the new year. Thank you. Hello, Mary.

Mary Foyder [02:04]

Hello.

Christian Solorzano [02:06]

It was nice to see you this past week. On Tuesday at Firebelly for their holiday party. I complimented you on your outfit. You're always very stylish. I've— the few times I've seen you always have beautiful apparel.

Mary Foyder [02:24]

Oh, well, thank you. I was, I was trying to be a little bit festive. Yeah. My style is always trying to be like, what is the most comfortable pajama-like clothing that is publicly acceptable?

Christian Solorzano [02:38]

Yeah.

Mary Foyder [02:39]

You know? The fact that it looked good, I— thanks.

Christian Solorzano [02:42]

And did that interest in fashion, how far back does that go? Has that just always been there?

Mary Foyder [02:51]

That's funny because I don't even think of myself as someone who's interested in fashion. I just, want to wear things that are comfortable and that I like. I think ever since I was a kid or a teen, I would like to make certain things. Ridiculous, terrible fashion choices, like sewing buttons all over something, or, trying to, trying to make sweet outfits to wear to the, to the mall or whatever we did in the '90s. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [03:23]

Did you have any, like fashion icons or any people that you look to as, an inspiration?

Mary Foyder [03:30]

I don't know if it's fashion, but, I love I love Amy Sedaris and her maximalism of everything, and I think I've, ever since I became aware of her many years ago, that I always sort of admired the kind of ridiculousness inside of something that could look really cool. So I don't know.

Christian Solorzano [03:57]

Yeah, that's cool. I always, I always like to see Photographs of people when they were a teenager, because I feel like that kind of— often what I notice is that those years are so like defining in one's life that I don't know, I feel like I'm still 15 years old, like on the inside.

Mary Foyder [04:19]

I am also 15 years old, and pictures of me, it depends on the age of teenager because I was a really awkward kid. Like if you've ever seen the movie Welcome to the Dollhouse, that was me. I was the wiener dog when I was like in junior high. I was just like so painfully awkward. But yeah, then high school was like, all the hair was just in my face, the baggiest clothes and the punk rock t-shirts and like the Doc Martens and a lot of black.

Of course, I still wear a lot of black.

Christian Solorzano [04:52]

Were you a, were you a troublemaker?

Mary Foyder [04:55]

I was a goody-two-shoes so gotten into a lot of trouble. I don't know. I think there was a— it's a— I definitely got into a lot of trouble, but I didn't get necessarily caught.

Christian Solorzano [05:11]

Okay. Do you want to confess to anything right now?

Mary Foyder [05:15]

No, it's funny because I was just thinking about this earlier. I have a dear friend who I met when I lived out in San Francisco for a decade, and I have a friend there who I met there, though we grew up a mile from each other. And we used to joke because in our hometown, sort of what was normal Wasn't necessarily normal for the people we met later when we went to college or we met professionally.

What was a normal thing to do was like, they would be like, what? It's like, yeah, that's awful. We're like, no, that's just our Friday. Yeah, of course. But I don't know. Yeah, it was pretty normal for Flint, Michigan.

Christian Solorzano [05:53]

Okay, so talk to us about your— so you went to school for graphic design. And given that this podcast focuses largely on graphic design, I would love to know like how you got into design. Like walk us through all the steps that like led you to getting a BFA in graphic design from Western Michigan University.

Mary Foyder [06:17]

That is where I went to school. Well, the reason I went to Western Michigan University was not for graphic design. I decided that at an early age that I wanted to be a pilot. I wanted to be an airline pilot, and I went to Western because they had a really good professional pilot program, and I did not apply anywhere else because I did not care. I think now, in hindsight, I'm like, I probably just wanted to like travel and get out. But I went to that.

I chose that school because of because of the engineering program, and I start— I, was accepted within my end of my junior year in high school. I was like, oh, I know what I'm doing, I'm gonna do this. And of course I went there, and then I realized, oh yeah, I can do calculus, but I hate it. And also I hate physics. And I was taking FAA regulations and, technical writing and things.

And I had always done art, I had always made art, but I didn't ever know that it could be necessarily something that could be a career. My mom— my parents are both teachers, and my mom taught art at an adult ed campus near us, and I just, I didn't want to be a teacher. And then the other thing, I was like, there's maybe like people who draw or illustrate for a living, but I didn't feel like I was that good.

And I loved drawing, and I did all kinds of that stuff. I was always making signs for the restaurants I worked at in high school, or doing stuff for school, but I just, I didn't really know, hadn't been exposed to graphic design or anything at that point. So when I was in college, I, and I decided to drop out of the engineering program, I went over and just started taking art classes because it was something I loved.

And so I was taking photography and 2D and drawing and life drawing and stuff and transitioned into being an art major. And I wasn't quite sure what I was going to do. I didn't know. And I met some folks. So Western has a really Actually, now they have a really robust graphic design program, an internship program there. But at the time, they were— it was— the program was pretty new. And I think I was probably outside, the sculpture lab smoking a cig, as you do.

And someone was like, oh, are you gonna— are you gonna apply to the new design program? And I was like, what's that? I had no idea. I didn't know. And I kind of looked into it a bit, and I was like, this sounds really interesting. And then I, put together a portfolio and applied while I was already— I think I was already a sophomore when I applied to that program and got in.

And it was a little bit wild because, I felt like at the time I had no idea what it was. And then I found out more about it and I went in and it was like coming home. And I think it kind of got both of those parts of my brain. I got to do creative things and creative problem solving. And it also sort of fed, the engineering part of my brain as well.

And so, being able to do things creatively, but in service of something else, or in about getting a message across, or storytelling, or whatever. And so that really appealed to me. And so once I, once I found that program and started, it was like, oh, okay, my grades are going up. I'm engaged. I'm really liking this, really liking working this way. And so it's cool. Yeah, found myself in that place.

Christian Solorzano [09:50]

Yeah. So as you were like discovering graphic design, were there any particular stories or what were you most interested in communicating? Or was it just kind of communication in general that stood out to you?

Mary Foyder [10:05]

I think I was really interested in the reason behind why decisions were made. I was always, very much driven by, well, why would we do this? Why are we making this choice? What is the right thing for this person? I didn't know— I didn't learn about human-centered design until years later, but I was always trying to sort of approach things with a little bit of a researchness to it, or at least asking lots of questions.

Some, a lot of my classmates, they made really beautiful things, and I was not the top person in my class by any means, but I was really just kind of interested in like why we do the things we do and how do we communicate things and how you can create change by communicating something. You can get somebody excited about something by communicating it well and being able to sort of experiment visually was sort of the driver there.

Christian Solorzano [11:04]

Yeah. And do you have any do you ever look back and wonder like Pilot Mary.

Mary Foyder [11:11]

No. And then when I was working as a consultant and traveling all the time, I was like, I'm so glad I'm not like in charge of driving this bus. I always thought that someday I'd go get my private license, but even now I'm like, yeah, there's like so many other things I'd rather do. But I do love to travel. And yeah, and there was a— there's always the little kid who knows, who like did all my science fair projects about how airplanes work and everything.

And all that stuff spins through my brain every time I fly for work. It's hilarious. I'm like, oh, Bernoulli's principle. And I'm like, why am I remembering this? 4th grade.

Christian Solorzano [11:52]

That's funny. So a lot of the work that you do today, so you study graphic design and then you are in that world. And then today, what do you, what is it that you practice? Do you consider yourself to still be a graphic designer or are you more a design strategist. How do you— I always, I'm always really fascinated how graphic design becomes such a wide avenue for so many cross-disciplinary things.

And one of the beauties that I always find myself contemplating is the fact that, because of graphic design, I feel like I've amassed expertise or some knowledge on like healthcare. Like for many years I was working in like the pharmaceutical industry and like all these other things. And for you, it seems like your path kind of took you in the social impact space where you're doing work that is meaningful and that isn't necessarily a for-profit type of— it's not commercial. Or at least that's my impression.

Mary Foyder [13:03]

I think that's fair. I think that's fair. And I think that's also where my passion lies. It's funny because it's like my existential crisis. What do I call myself now that I'm not just a graphic designer? And I see myself as being a graphic designer, but there are so many graphic designers that I know in Chicago who are just infinitely more talented when it comes to visual design than I am. But, and I love to collaborate with them.

I think I don't have that. It's funny, as my career has evolved, I don't have that like short description elevator pitch. I think if someone was to put me on the spot, I'd say design consultant, and then no one would know what that meant. I would say I'm a healing-centered, trauma-informed designer, and then I'd have to explain what that means.

I say that I work in— I wear a lot— I always talk about, I have my own small micro studio, and I work as a collaborative with other designers, and I like to work directly with clients. And depending on what it is we're working on, I can wear a lot of different hats. And I'm very comfortable as a service designer, as a visual designer, stepping into research and co-design facilitation, leading projects and trying to do that in a trauma-informed and healing-centered way.

And then I also, work on strategy and brand and visual design, experiential design. And it really kind of depends on what is it that we're trying to bring to life. And I know that is kind of a cop-out, like it's all these things, but I know a lot of things enough to be dangerous. And then I also know, okay, I can take us this far, but I want to bring in like this person and this person to collaborate on this project.

So I really also enjoy building teams and collaborating with others because I just feel like it's so important in the work that we do and the work that I do that I'm always learning from other people because there's so different ways of approaching things and new perspectives. And so that's always really important to my practice as well. I would say that when I worked my last full-time job, where I was at for 12-ish years, was at IDEO.

And I would have said I went in as a graphic designer, but I came out as something else or something more. And when I worked there, I did a lot of— most of my projects were primarily corporate work and a wide variety of things. But the projects that really stuck with me and that I love the most ended up being social impact projects that I did while I was there. And so those were the projects where my skill set and my passions, got to come together.

And so now that I've been having my own practice, I try as much as possible to align those things in the way that I'm working and to work on things I really care about.

Christian Solorzano [16:01]

Yeah. Was there one catalyst or like, what was the one thing that made you want to just start your own practice?

Mary Foyder [16:11]

I didn't necessarily set out to start my own practice. I knew I was ready. To leave, and I left with a client that, with everyone's blessing, I didn't steal the client. They were like, take them, because you can flip on the IDEO machine for 2 weeks for the budget they have, but it could fund a small design studio for 6 months. So I started doing work on my own and with some others collaboratively, and word of mouth and work kept coming and building.

And I was, designing in this space most— a lot of the work that I have done. Is in the adolescent sexual reproductive health space. And then, gender equity, bodily autonomy. I work now with survivors of sexual trauma. So there's like this weird sort of niche that my, a lot of my projects and things have worked with. And I always thought maybe if the right job came along, I would go work there, but it, that hasn't necessarily happened. And I've been really happy.

Working for myself and working directly with clients. And, the big difference too about working at a consultancy to the way I work now is at a consultancy, we often put together, here's a strategy. Here are some things. Here's a little, here's an identity. Here's a book. Now go implement that in your organization. We're around if you need us and you can pay us more, but bye. And it's very rare that you get to see something and bring it all the way to bringing it to life.

And I feel really privileged in working. By myself or working as a collaborative, I have been able to like see more products or services make their way into the world and have gotten to be a part of them, whether it was full-time or part-time or as a guide throughout the work that I've been able to do as a sole proprietor or a small studio. And so that's been really a big difference as well. And I don't know if that answered your question.

Christian Solorzano [18:13]

No, that answers my— and what's the most difficult part about just running your own, your own shop and just being your own person?

Mary Foyder [18:22]

The most difficult thing, because you have to do all the stuff. You have to like, I have to remember that I need to send an invoice today. And I'd rather just like work on something that I've got on my desk that needs my attention. But I have to do that. I have to write the proposals. I have to, do all that business side of things.

So that's hard, but I also enjoy it because it's an opportunity to collaborate with a client, really early on like writing proposals and things. So yeah, I don't, I don't love that. And I think the thing that I hate the most about being on my own is, damn, I miss real health insurance.

Christian Solorzano [19:02]

Yeah, I keep hearing that from a lot of people.

Mary Foyder [19:06]

Yeah, I like working for an IDEO had really great benefits and their health insurance was amazing. And I went out on my own, it was like the Affordable Care Act was new. I was like, I believe in that, I'm gonna buy something off the exchange. And then as that's been eaten away and I've had to buy single-payer plans every year, I see less and less things being able to be covered.

I see less and less organ— like Hospital systems taking a single payer plan, and also this year, this year will be the first year that my health insurance costs as much as my mortgage. Wow! Yeah, and I'm not psyched about that. I think that's the worst thing of working for yourself.

Christian Solorzano [19:55]

Yeah. Hopefully something changes, but I don't know. So with the work that you do. It being social impact space. And then there is— so to me, commercial work always tends to have like a very tangible return on investment or like a metric of success where it's like, we're going to do this and it's going to return X percentage in revenue, profit, whatever. When it comes to social impact work, how does— I'm curious about how Impact is measured.

Mary Foyder [20:32]

Yeah. Well, impact is measured in different ways. I can speak to like just a couple projects come to mind where a very early project for me, and I was still at IDEO when I first started working with this client and later worked with them on my own, is an organization called Power to Decide. And they have, it used to be called a much longer mouthful of a name, but they, we created a service and online platform called Bedsider.

And it is supporting people to make contraception choices about their lives and bodies. And the impetus for doing that work was there was a statistic— statistic— and this is 20— this is like 18, 17 years ago. What was it? 16 years ago. So there had been a— there was a study done that said 7 out of 10 pregnancies to 18 to 29-year-olds are unintended.

And, we want to support people in choice, in finding, do they want to— some people want to just leave it up to the universe, and other people want to, have more control about when they have a baby. And so we set out, we made this service and tools. And then what you see as impact is you start to see, well, how many people are engaging with the Platform, of course. But then you also start to see can see where statistics have come down.

Like you can see that teen pregnancy statistics have come down. Now, is it just because of this one thing that we helped design? No, there's a lot of reasons for that, but it's like contributing to that. I, for example, I worked with the Chicago Department of Public Health a few. Well, when I first left IDEO, I took them as a client, and they have a program called the CHAT program, which is Chicago Healthy Adolescents and Teens.

And so the health department had a grant and they're working on building a program. There are health department goals. It's like Chicago is number 2 in the nation for cases of chlamydia and gonorrhea to 15 to 19-year-olds, or Chicago Cook County. And so we're number 2. Yay, not awesome. So they had this program to go in and do anonymous testing and treatment for STIs in schools, also provide sex ed. They were work—

Christian Solorzano [22:55]

They work with—

Mary Foyder [22:55]

It's still going in some capacity. Working with Planned Parenthood of Illinois to do the education portion. And they had put together a pilot and they came to our team to say, how do we include the youth voice? Because of course it was put together by like the health department maybe doesn't have the best tone of voice.

And maybe it's not the most approachable to a 15-year-old or a 16-year-old. And so then design comes in to say, they had these goals. They want to bring this big statistic down. They want to be able to reach young people in schools, and then they have a way of doing it.

But then where the impact comes in is like what my team did is came in and worked with, did co-design with young people and asked them like just kind of understanding where are they, what makes something trusted, what questions do they have, what do they already know, what things are they embarrassed to ask like in anonymous way, and to be able to take that presentation that is exactly what you imagined.

It had like, the most horrible typography and the cheesiest, like super heteronormative, like awful stock photography and kind of scary STI things in it and say like, okay, this is where you're at. And this is— it's still the same goal. But then by working with young people and integrating in the things that they were craving, the information they wanted to know, along with like providing this service, it's able to have a bigger impact, meet more people.

You see more people testing and treating those STIs, and you're seeing at least like, I think my goal was where like the goal is to get young people engaged in this when they're being given this at their school. I think the big goal is just how do we make this less cringy? How do we make this suck less? Because no one wants to go in and hear some, in your school, if someone's lecturing you about sex ed, that can be super awkward.

So, but if young people have a stake in designing what this might look like or feel like or deliver, then they are more apt to pay attention or maybe get something out of it rather than just feel like they're being like broadcast to.

So impact, I think for that it's measured in a different way, right? Because then there are statistics because all this is backed up by grants and there's like, there's also the people doing data research underneath it. But what the design is doing is making that more accessible, making it something that is more palatable perhaps. And then you're measuring impact slightly different. So there's like a lot more qualitative data, but, and also in the end you're looking to see, are we affecting that statistic in our city?

Christian Solorzano [25:50]

Yeah. And then with a lot of, let's say you're going to a school and you're talking about, or like talking about sexual education topics that in your work you talk about trauma-informed, like being trauma-informed. And I know trauma-informed, to me, that was a term that I learned about a few years ago. And I believe there's, I think maybe you, what you did with AIGA Chicago, or there was some event and Chicago that was about trauma-informed design.

But can you talk, can you just talk to us about what trauma-informed means?

Mary Foyder [26:31]

Yeah. So trauma-informed design, and maybe I'll back, if it's okay if I back up and tell you a little bit about how I found this. I did do a talk on trauma-informed design with an amazing designer named Rachel Dietkus, who's based down in Champaign-Urbana and is Social Workers who Design. And we did, we did this presentation. I want to say it was like 2021, maybe.

Christian Solorzano [26:55]

May 21st, 2021, Friday, 4 PM.

Mary Foyder [26:58]

Excellent work with the Googles over there. Yeah. So we did a presentation together and she and I had met through a couple of different channels. And I was so excited because she comes from, her background is she is a social worker, worked for the VA for years, and then went into design. So coming from this space where in the mental health and healthcare field, their something called trauma-informed care.

And what trauma-informed care— basically what they're trying to do is not traumatize people through the process of providing care. So they are, you're trying to make it less trauma-informed. And so in my work, especially like I've been working a ton with adolescents and sexual reproductive health, and I was working with, a lot of different healthcare practitioners, I was working with nurse midwives or nurses who are riding in these mobile health units and things and was learning about trauma informed care.

And I started asking myself and my team, why aren't we using these same principles in design?

And so I had started adapting those, that language of— there's like 6 principles, which I don't need to necessarily go into with you, but unless you want me to, but there's like 6 principles of trauma-informed care. I'm like, okay, let's translate into what does that mean for design? What does that mean for our process? What does that mean for the way that we are engaging with folks? What does that mean for the way that we're recruiting? Individuals to take part in design research?

What does it mean if we're co-designing? And what does it mean for us as a team if we're working in a space? And so when I met Rachel and both of us were sort of coming from these 2 different sides, I was just like super excited to have a peer who knew so much and has so much experience in this space. And so she's been an amazing, ally and someone I've learned a ton from. And we did that presentation back in 2021.

And I think since then, I've been implementing those principles and that way of working into my own projects and things. Trauma-informed design is recognizing that trauma exists, that trauma exists, that many people have experienced trauma either firsthand or in their own lives, that our trauma responses can, that trauma response happens when something is super overwhelming or too much, too soon, too fast. It's Trauma happens when people don't have support, or, and it can show up as— like, it lives in our body as sensation.

It can show up as pain, it can show up as tension numbness, and that it doesn't impact everyone in the same way.

So knowing what trauma is and how it, it's something that surfaces in all these different places in design and not just in social impact work. I mean, I've witnessed someone be triggered and activated by trauma in like a healthy snacking project. And then so understanding and acknowledging that is happening and then being trauma-informed is like, okay, in our dealings, we want to make sure that we're creating a safe enough, safe enough like space for people to engage with us.

It's about working with trust and transparency, acknowledging cultural context.

Honoring lived experience, making sure that folks have a voice and choice in what is happening and what is, what is happening in their lives, and that through design as well. And so that sort of way of working has permeated how I approach projects, how I build teams. And then building on top of that, I think, you and I talked about this once at one of the meetups because also like the term trauma-informed is a little bit— can sound a little bit—

Christian Solorzano [30:51]

It's strong.

Mary Foyder [30:53]

It's strong. It's trauma-forward.

And the thing is, I, I've been using the term healing-centered a lot more. And there are, amazing folks out there like Shawn Jenray Dr. Shawn Jenray, who has the Flourish Agenda, and they do healing-centered engagement worth looking into. But he talks about how, working with young people, the traumatic thing that happened is not the most— it's not like the most interesting thing about you. Trauma happened, there are like— it's like, that's just one thing that's part of your life. It's not the whole thing.

And so you are not the worst thing that happened to you. And I think acknowledging that, and when in a design process, thinking more about healing or how to be sensitive and prepared for trauma, but not necessarily like yeah. And so I think I, because of the work that I'm doing now with Braver Collective, which I'm sure you're probably— it's on the list.

We're working directly with survivors of trauma, and so healing and the way that people heal is also part of like sort of building on top of just a trauma-informed, okay, great, we're not going to do any harm, moving from this idea of do no harm, trauma is— yeah, we recognize trauma, we're not going to cause more trauma, starting to be more healing-centered. So when you're talking about more healing-centered work, it's okay, recognizing the persistence of trauma, but then, and committing not to repeat that.

In the design process or through any of our, any of our experiences together. We're also seeking to, through the process of design, like restore a sense of safety, power, self-worth. And we want to, acknowledge people for who they are throughout a design process and then beyond, not just while we're okay, you're engaged, we're doing co-design right now. It's also beyond. So thinking about how projects end. Thinking about how interactions end or how a service, once it's stood up, what is the relationship?

What do those relationships look like? And how do how do you move forward even when you're not in you know you're not going to be in contact with these folks every day? But how have you ended things in a way that are making space for like relationship building or for them to be able to contribute in the future?

Christian Solorzano [33:27]

Yeah. Okay. I like everything that you mentioned. And I think of trauma-informed design as an additional layer to what we would call human-centered design. But then human-centered design, I feel like has been like just become another like hollow term that's just been appropriated by just about anyone that does like a 1-hour LinkedIn course on like human-centered design, and then they add it as a little badge to their profile, and then they get a lot of thumbs up.

So how do you— I think it would be, to me, like what I really appreciate about this conversation is that it's stuff that we can all be doing, and it isn't something that just— being trauma-informed doesn't just have to be like working with trauma, people that have experienced severe trauma. I think we can be trauma-informed or healing forward or healing-centered in just about everything, whether it's in, the Design Club being an example, or leading an organization, or creating a team, or doing just graphic design.

I feel like it's like a heightened sense of awareness. And empathy that I think overall just leads to more inclusive and better creative things that could hopefully resonate deeper with people.

Mary Foyder [35:01]

I would absolutely agree with that. I think once you start thinking and approaching work in this way, you can't like, oh, well, throw that out the window. It just changes fundamentally the way that you approach work. And I do have lots to, lots of thoughts about human-centered design and all the different ways that people label it and stuff. But, it's like I kind of have this sort of sandwich and it builds on each.

There's the principles of visual design and the way that you're approaching communicating. And then like human-centered design, trauma-informed design, and healing-centered is almost a layer on top of that, the way that I've— yeah, understanding that for myself. And each builds These things build on each other. And I'm never going to be a person who— anyone who works with me, I'm not going to like pull out a double diamond and be like, and we do this and this and this and this and this.

It is a messy process. It is about divergence and convergence and all that. But it's also like very much needs to be about respect and collaboration. And working in, the process is also important as much as when you're talking about being healing-centered or trauma-informed or trauma-responsive. You are— the process of how you got there is almost as important as where you get to.

In some ways, because the reason you're getting to where you are is because it's not happening in a vacuum. It's happening Through co-design, it's happening through the contributions of other professionals and folks with lived experience. And the design in the end is so much stronger because of that. I mean, hopefully it will like meet people where they are, the universal design principle, if you will.

Christian Solorzano [36:55]

Yeah. Yeah. The thing that I always challenge human-centered design by asking what human is at the center? And because when we talk about it, sometimes it's like, all right, a weapon of mass destruction is human-centered for the people that are pressing the button and like creating awfulness? So to me, the trauma-informed kind of challenges what would be otherwise—

Mary Foyder [37:28]

Human-centered.

Christian Solorzano [37:29]

Not humans. It's almost like it's the two of them inform one another so that it's— so that something good comes out of it. Hopefully.

Mary Foyder [37:41]

Hopefully. I think human-centered design, and lots of people have written about human-centered design or design thinking or whatever, and it always kind of irked me because I would be like, okay, this, or is it participatory design? Is it co-design? Is it human-centered design? Is it design thinking? Like circle RTM, whatever. I don't care. It's like, we're working on this issue with these individuals, making sure the right folks— like, who needs to be invited to the table?

And then however the process— we define the process based on, where we are. And then yes, that's inherent— that should be inherently human-centered. But I think when you consider doing it in a trauma-responsive way or healing-centered way, that inherently takes out the, it's not extract— it should not be extract. And I think that's part of, what makes some of the ick for me about some human-centered design stuff. And, I worked at IDEO for 12 years, so, I've seen it— saw things evolve even in that space.

And some things felt a lot like jazz hands and other things felt, really powerful and useful. And then it's I think that to include knowledge of trauma and how to work with humans, whether they're the person you're designing next to or the person who has lived experience who's joined you, that makes it— takes the ick out of it, I guess. For me.

Yeah, so I've also seen— I'm also sorry, I was just because we've also seen when trauma has happened in design spaces and it— and there wasn't any sort of knowledge or understanding of what to do or what could happen when someone— what should happen or how to respond when someone is traumatized.

Christian Solorzano [39:46]

Yeah, so you talked about co-design and I know that with my peers, there's people that are very much for co-designing, like they believe that you should be designing with. But then there's another group of people that would say, they are hiring us because we're the experts and we know what's best for them, and that's it. Co-design to me seems like a pretty radical approach to making.

And I say radical approach in the sense that, like in education, like we're taught that we become the experts and that at the end we tell the client what they need. So how do you— with co-design, to me, like co-designing is all about building trust and giving the person that you're designing with a sense of ownership over the thing that you're building or creating. Is that— would you say that that's like a correct— or like, how would you define co-design?

And I want to hear you share with us a little bit about trust and how you develop trust with people that may be a little bit closed off, especially when dealing with things that might trigger, that might be triggering. Yeah.

Mary Foyder [41:09]

Oh, there's so many things inside that question.

Christian Solorzano [41:12]

There is.

Mary Foyder [41:14]

I think first of all, I just want to respond to the piece about co-design. Co-design does not mean design by committee.

Co-design, it means that, you're involving and centering the individuals who are going to be directly affected by or on the receiving side of a design or a service, and it is including them and sharing power when making decisions. I don't think it takes anything away from— it's still important that you have designers because co-designers are not necessarily like— they're not a graphic designer or they're not a UX designer, but they can speak to their experience. They can speak to what resonates with them.

They can identify red flags or things in a way that the designer who does not have the context can do. And so even like some of my favorite brands and identities that I've developed and worked on over the years are things where we included co-design. And that doesn't necessarily mean they were like picking the logo, but it might be like we're having conversations about what's underneath this.

What— okay, this is about, with— in the case of Braver Collective, we included co-designers in the naming, we included co-design in part of the exploration of the types of imagery and things that people were drawn to and that felt safe. So we're talking about safety or bravery or what speaks community. To you. And I've learned so much through those conversations with co-designers that then inform— then we can go back and say, okay, well, let's organize what we heard. This is what we heard.

And let's try to translate that using some design skills a bit and then reflect it back and say, okay, this is what we heard. And that could show up in this way. This— here's a few ways that could show up. Let's have a conversation about it. So you're bringing more things to the table and it's not just strictly like feedback. Yes or no, I don't like purple. It's more like, this is scary when I encounter this type of information in this space.

What can we do to just like give me a little bit of foreshadowing of what's to come? Or how can we, I'm afraid of someone looking over my shoulder while I'm reading this. What can we do and how can we design something into this experience that can help you like get out of that really quick?

Yeah, I just— when it comes to co-design, I think there's so much power in these conversations and these co-design sessions with folks. And it's not like we're not designing a final UX during that session necessarily, but we are defining the values and the rules that are like underlying that. And I think I feel really proud, especially of the Braver Collective work, because that is something that was very much co-designed.

And some of our co-designers have come back and are actually— have been hired as part of the organization and are doing some work with us. And when folks tell you, they see it, they're like, I remember a conversation about, these things. I remember when we talked about this, and I can see that coming to life in the way the design decisions that were made and the way this has been rendered and the way that this is showing up.

And I think that is really powerful in creating impact and also like showing up in the right way.

Christian Solorzano [45:04]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think from what I— so as I was preparing for this interview, I asked our mutual friend Nicolette, I'm like, what's the one thing that I should ask Mary? And her question was all about how great you are at collaborating and how you just go about creating those safe spaces where good ideas cultivate or are fostered. So is collaboration something that's always come natural to you, or for someone that maybe is listening that struggles with collaborating?

How do you— how does someone get comfortable with their own, intuition or with their own sense of, whatever?

Mary Foyder [45:58]

I love collaboration. I wouldn't want to work any other way because I just really believe that, on my own, yeah, what I come up with, it might be okay, but it's going to be so much stronger by having other brains and hearts attached to it and contributing to it. So collaboration is something that's really important to the way that I work. I can also say that it is a practice.

And even as a younger designer, I think, and especially as a younger visual designer, there's this preciousness and this nervousness about I can't show anything unless it's really good because somebody's gonna fire me or say it's crappy and I'm gonna feel awful. There's this like, it has to be perfect when I put it out in the world.

And I do think that like, that is one thing that working at IDEO really squished out of me because so much of the conversations that are happening in collaboration, I'm sitting at— if I'm sitting at a table with an architect and an anthropologist and an engineer. We all have different skill sets, and I'm gonna learn something from these folks. But also, how do I get my idea across?

I've drawn this horrible sketch, or like— because I'm very much about, something that I've always enjoyed is like taking the spaghetti mess of all the data and all the information and being like, okay, how can I. Like work on this and make it into something that is Visually digestible.

And so that practice of sharing things before they're ready just sharing rough ideas and being comfortable being vulnerable and saying like, I don't have the answer, or, what about this? And putting something— because I'm a visual person, putting something down on paper and just I'm always holding random sketches up to Zoom calls now. Well, what if we did something like this?

Because then the beauty of that, of not waiting till something is precious or not waiting and trying to do that all on my own, is that I get feedback and I get new perspectives on what that is. And then I can revise that and make it stronger. And so I think collaboration is just an extension of that, and co-design as well, because it's about your— those conversations.

Experience, and whether it's professional or lived, that's coming from the other people in your team or whatever, it's going to make— it's in service of what you're designing, and it's going to make that much stronger.

I don't know. I love collaborating with folks. And I don't want to— I don't want to be— ever want to be the one to have all the answers. I really see my role as creating a platform where many voices are welcome and that we— that, folks can contribute and feel that their contribution is valued and can see themselves in the work as well.

Christian Solorzano [49:02]

Yeah, I agree. I like collaborating, but sometimes I hate collaborating.

Mary Foyder [49:08]

Well, sometimes it also depends on who you're collaborating with. Exactly. It depends on how you're like, this person's voice is nails on a chalkboard to my soul. But then you figure out a way to— then you figure out a way to make it work.

Christian Solorzano [49:21]

Yeah. So Braver Collective, director of design, 5 years, beautiful brand identity done by Field of Practice-ish.

Mary Foyder [49:36]

Ish. It's the actual identity was done by Tom at Firebelly. We worked with Firebelly on the naming and the brand, and then and I worked with the studio and was part of the team as like art director and facilitator for co-design in that. And then we were really happy with the visual work and then decided to take it in-house for the next phase, which was expanding on the strategy and building the site and bringing that to life.

And I really had wanted to work with— also work with Field of Practice on that. Worked with Nermeen and Kristen, who are like the dream team of humans to work with. They're so amazing. And so we worked on all the strategy and then expanding beyond like some of the visual identity that Firebelly had set in motion and then taking that really and like building on that and making it real. And so like Field of Practice, we like did strategy and site design and UX and UI.

So like that was a collaborative— Process. And we worked with co-designers throughout that whole process as well. But I do want to give credit where credit's due. Like the Firebelly folks were a lovely partner right at the beginning to—

Help us get to that identity and stretched themselves to include co-design into the process. As a studio, I think that they hadn't, that was something that they hadn't necessarily done at that time in the way that we really felt that it was important as an organization to do. They went with it. Yeah, it was fun.

Christian Solorzano [51:19]

I love it. So the year is just around the corner, the new year. We're wrapping up 2025, and I think these last few years have really— to me, I think of— I think design is facing an identity crisis at the moment. I think there's so much things that are like— so much is being questioned, and I think values are— there's also an opportunity to redefine what values are and what they mean.

And I would like to know, what do you feel is the responsibility of design today?

Mary Foyder [52:02]

That's such a big question. The responsibility of design is to not be assholes and not suck.

And to not make things worse, to use our powers for something good, hopefully, whatever good means. Gosh, I think it's about respect and using, when I say using our powers for good, I mean, as designers, I think we are creating things that are part of, culture. We have we have the opportunity to call attention to things that can be catalysts for change, that can be support for humans who need support, that we can do things ethically and with empathy.

Christian Solorzano [52:56]

I like that. I'm writing this down. I could always really I could always just listen to the recording, but you're saying cool stuff.

Mary Foyder [53:05]

Oh, I don't remember. I blacked out there for a second.

Christian Solorzano [53:09]

You said Christian is awesome.

Mary Foyder [53:11]

He is. Christian's awesome.

Christian Solorzano [53:14]

So what's like your? So what keeps you up at night?

Mary Foyder [53:18]

What keeps me up? Well, I already mentioned health insurance. Yeah. What keeps me up at night? I worry about the future of the you know the future that my kids are gonna live in. And I worry about immediate needs. My kiddo is non-binary and trans, and I worry about them in America right now. I worry about gender-affirming healthcare, and that is something that definitely keeps me up at night.

And, I want my kid and young people who are growing up today to like be able to be themselves in the world that we're building. And that is kind of scary right now.

Christian Solorzano [54:01]

And when you, when you're faced with that sense of fear or uncertainty, where do you turn to for hope?

Mary Foyder [54:08]

Where do I turn to for hope? It depends on the day. Sometimes I turn to escapism for hope. I'm like, let me just read something that is completely not— of course I do read a lot of— I do have this weird obsession with like kind of post-apocalyptic things. So maybe that's not hopeful.

I, that same kid, I love talking to them, and I turn to— I am— I see so many folks in not just the design community, but in Chicago who are passionate and unapologetically themselves and showing up for each other.

And that really gives me a lot of hope when I see folks showing up, whether they're seeing all the neighborhood out in the street during the awfulness of the Midway shit, the ice storm that's been happening here, that seems to have died down a bit, but just seeing the whole community come out. I think seeing that in times right now where there's so many kind of scary things happening, that does give me hope. It gives me faith in humans, and yeah.

And then hearing you know I get to spend a lot of time with young teens right now because I have one, and so kind of hearing the way that they're looking at the world and the things that are normal and completely acceptable and amazing to those young people is also super hopeful because I just want to like I want that fire to keep burning. And so yeah, I think that is. That is something that gives us hope.

Christian Solorzano [55:52]

Yeah, there's a— we have a lot of young listeners for this podcast that are either first-year design students or people or just designers that are just graduating and they're going out into the world looking to either get a job or make some kind of impact. What would be your Call to action for someone that is at that point in their lives where blank canvas.

Mary Foyder [56:25]

Yeah, try everything. Get out of your comfort zone. And I think it doesn't have to just be social impact work to have impact. There's so many ways to have impact, and that can happen in a lot of different contexts. That can happen in really corporate context. The decisions you might make as a design team can have ripple effects, whether that is our sustainability ripple effects or trauma-informed and supportive ripple effects.

I mean, as a young designer, I think that was something that I really believed was like I can go places now. Like I want to live in this other city. I'm going to live in this other country. I'm going to go. And try and do design in this way. And I think, as a young person right now, especially because everything is scary and sucky right now, try all the stuff, do all the things.

Christian Solorzano [57:26]

Yeah, I like that. As we wrap up, I have a few rapid-fire questions for you. Can you share with us just briefly, what is Braver Collective? What's their mission?

Mary Foyder [57:39]

Well, Braver Collective is a platform that's dedicated to helping survivors of sexual trauma find their own unique pathways to healing. So we have a website, we create and share accessible, reliable, and trauma-responsive and shame-free online space and tools dedicated to supporting survivors' voice and choice. It's a resource that survivors— and as survivors, we've longed for. Yeah. It's every aspect of the organization has been co-designed from the digital presence to the organization itself.

And that's all been shaped by the wisdom and lived experience of individuals, trauma experts, healers, supporters, survivors, and also designing for this space and creating awareness in the space of sexual trauma. It's an opportunity to make change and push back against stigma, and to have an impact on— in a space that affects nearly a third of all Americans. So what Braver Collective tries to do is we give folks a platform to share their stories, and we have vetted resources and survivor-to-survivor advice.

And we are showing up on college campuses now. We are a digital organization, and we all live in different states, but Braver Collective is sort of like embracing all the different ways in which healing can happen, in tiny steps, in big steps, and in supporting folks to find and connect with community or with things that could be supportive to them. Their choice, their voice.

Christian Solorzano [59:22]

Yeah, that's— I mean, that's great that you're doing that. I feel like that definitely fills a big gap. For a lot of folks in the world. So that's I think, I think often the—

Mary Foyder [59:40]

Different.

Christian Solorzano [59:40]

To me, that showcases the possibility of design and how it goes beyond what we're taught to as like a cool-looking poster or a cool packaging, like as a, as a As a design educator, I feel like we don't do enough of talking about the possibility that design can bring and how it can shape and impact people's lives in a deeply profound way.

So I think the fact that you're pairing a strong mission with also aesthetically pleasing brand and communications, I think that really is the perfect intersection of socially driven, impactful work.

Mary Foyder [60:24]

So thank you.

Christian Solorzano [60:26]

And for people that want to learn more about that, we'll include the link to that organization in the chat or in the description for this episode.

Mary Foyder [60:34]

Yeah, I mean, I could talk about that work for like 4 hours.

Christian Solorzano [60:37]

So yeah, maybe that's something. I know you've talked about it in the past, so not with the Chicago Graphic Design Club, but maybe that's something that maybe in 2026 we can find a way to make that happen for our community. Yep. So shifting over to some lighthearted rapid-fire questions, I would love to know what are you currently reading?

Mary Foyder [61:09]

I just reread the Parable of the Sower. Apocalypse amazingness. That book is Awesome. And then just like some purely escapism crap sometimes. Yeah. And then I just also just took like a class in healing-centered engagement, so I've been reading a lot of around that too.

Christian Solorzano [61:37]

Okay. What is your Algorithm serve you on YouTube?

Mary Foyder [61:45]

My algorithm is so messed up because I never bother turning on SafeSearch when I'm doing stuff for work.

So I get— so my algorithm has always been weird because like, it might be I'm working on a project where I am, I'm like looking up— or I remember once I had to— I was playing for a photo shoot about contraception, so like I was buying just like every brand of condom, every type of contraception that I could get my hands on that wasn't prescription, and then also prescription. And my algorithm for years has just been ridiculous.

So I might get— I might get like— I get all kinds of stuff. Okay.

Christian Solorzano [62:29]

What makes you cry?

Mary Foyder [62:29]

Everything. Parenting. Makes me cry sometimes. Seeing beautiful things and seeing people show up for each other makes me cry.

Christian Solorzano [62:41]

So you're naturally like an empathic person?

Mary Foyder [62:46]

Yeah, probably.

Christian Solorzano [62:47]

Okay. What makes you laugh?

Mary Foyder [62:52]

Jokes about poop. Terrible. I don't know. My husband always says that. My family always talks about the most inappropriate stuff at the dinner table, and that would not be wrong. I'm excited to see my brothers over the winter break. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [63:14]

And what are you currently listening to? What do you listen to? Are you podcasts, music, radio?

Mary Foyder [63:23]

I have been listening to a lot of audiobooks. Like always, I have an audiobook. And then I have been— we just, we took like a family trip or took a road trip recently. So I've been like, I'm always making mixes in the car and I'm always— and then against my will, I'm listening to the soundtrack for Hazbin Hotel over and over and over again while my child belts it out at the top of their lungs.

Christian Solorzano [63:47]

Very cool. And then let's talk briefly about Chicago. What do you love about Chicago? What makes Chicago special? And what are your— if someone were to run into you in the wild, where may they find you?

Mary Foyder [64:03]

I love Chicago. I grew up in Michigan and I spent over a decade living in San Francisco and then a little bit in London as well. And I wanted to come back to the Midwest and I was excited to come back to Chicago, even though I'm not back to, but back to the Midwest and live in Chicago. I've now been here 15 years, and I have found just an amazing community here, amazing community of designers.

And I think there is this, just a general sense of solidarity and support that I get in Chicago that I maybe didn't get in other cities where I lived. But I'm also in a different place in my life than I was then, so.

That, that's always different there. I mean, I love being near the lake as a person who grew up in Michigan, though I wasn't necessarily next to Lake Michigan then. It was a— I just, I love being able to go to the lake. I love being able to drive an hour and a half to where my parents live now. And I love my neighborhood. And if you're finding me in the wild, chances are I'm walking around Logan Square with my dog Chicken.

I leave the neighborhood sometimes, but like since I work from home, I'm in my home office right now, and I am always like— I love that I can walk to so many amazing things that are just really close by. So that's generally where you'll find me, is like getting coffee or a book store, any store that will let chicken come in, and especially if they have— especially if they have dog treats.

Because she's such a good dog. So I don't know, I'm around Logan Square a lot and I just love being in a city with seasons again. And I know the snow is ugly right now, but I love the snow. I love being able to like crunch around outside. So. Nice.

Christian Solorzano [66:00]

And then speaking of home office, what are things that you can't live without that you always have nearby when you're working? Your Mary's essentials. All right, so a container of water, liquid beverage. I've got—

Mary Foyder [66:20]

I'm— I— my desk itself is built into a closet. And so the closet, it's like, it's all bookshelves in front of me, so I'm surrounded by tons of, tons of stuff. I am definitely like more of a maximalist person. I have but I have the things like the water, 2 pairs of glasses, cuz now I have the close-up and far away glasses.

Because old. I've got, some candles over here and my, and a box of Kleenex and lots of water and the grossest, crustiest mouse pad that is paper that ever existed. But I have— I think I've probably had this for like 8 years and I just keep using it.

Christian Solorzano [67:11]

That's cool. So I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. This is the last episode of 2025. So that's pretty cool.

Mary Foyder [67:27]

Well, thank you for having me and for chatting and asking such nice and engaging questions.

Christian Solorzano [67:36]

What are you looking forward to in 2026? Do you make resolutions or goals or any of that stuff?

Mary Foyder [67:43]

I'm not a resolution maker because I think as a, as a person who manages their ADHD, I'm not good at resolutions because that resolution may change. And I'm open to things changing always. I am looking forward to, it's a new year, new start on, what am I gonna get to work on next year? Who am I gonna get to collaborate with? I'm looking forward to finding out what high school my kid's gonna get into. And I'm looking forward to summer. Beautiful.

Christian Solorzano [68:23]

Well, I hope that you and I keep crossing paths, and hopefully in the future you and I can work on something together.

Mary Foyder [68:30]

That would be amazing.

Christian Solorzano [68:31]

Yep. Cool. That was a great conversation. Thank you as always for sticking around till the end. Like I said in the beginning, if you enjoy Underscore and these conversations, we appreciate your support simply by having you leave us a rating wherever you listen. To learn more about us, visit www.chicagographicdesign.club. Thank you.