Christian Solorzano [01:05]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and on today's conversation, I have the pleasure of speaking with recruiter Mira Kida. About all things job searching, how to differentiate yourself as a designer. And she shares with us some of her thoughts on the design industry as it stands today.

A few months ago, the Chicago Graphic Design Club, we hosted our first portfolio review here at one Design Company, and it was just a great opportunity for people to get together, to share insight, knowledge, and their experiences with one another. And Mira Kida was one of those speakers at that event.

And I think it's important to make note that today in this changing industry with new technologies, new ways of working, it is possible to still do the kind of work that you want to do, but it requires some effort on your part to really think about how you're communicating your craft and your work to the world. And today's conversation is no exception.

Mira touches on so many things such as how to reach out, how to build your portfolio, how to show your work, and most importantly, how to be authentic and true to yourself while still making a living. It's a great conversation for people at all different stages of their career. So as usual, I hope that you enjoy and we'll talk soon. Thank you. Good afternoon, Mira. How's it going? Good.

Mira Kida [02:37]

How are you, Christian?

Christian Solorzano [02:38]

It's nice to be having this conversation with you. When we did the portfolio review a few months ago and you shared your story, I was thinking how cool it would be to have you elaborate upon your story that you shared about, job searching and all that stuff. And funny enough, As I was thinking that, someone else approached me and they also said, hey, it would be cool if Mira was on the podcast. So here we are.

Mira Kida [03:01]

Well, that's so nice. Thank you.

Christian Solorzano [03:03]

So what's unique about this episode is that usually I interview graphic designers and you are not a graphic designer, but you work a lot with designers and you have a good, a good sense of the design industry, of design, and sort of what's happening Christian, I appreciate it.

Mira Kida [03:24]

And I just want to say too, forever, just thank you for everything that you're doing for our city in Chicago. I don't know if you feel it day in and day out, but you are making a big difference on our community, and we're all very thankful that you've started the club.

Christian Solorzano [03:39]

Thank you. I appreciate it. So let's hear a little bit about you. This episode is about you. I want to know, who is Mira? I actually, when I was prepping for this, for this podcast, for this episode, I was trying to look you up online. And there wasn't much that I could find about you. So, nope, you're like, you're like a mystery. Yes.

Mira Kida [04:02]

I don't have any social media except for LinkedIn because I have to for work. Okay. And then when I changed my name, when I got married, I really became incognito. So that made me happy.

Christian Solorzano [04:13]

Well, I admire that. I think it's good. I feel like when people, when it's, when people are difficult to find, online, it makes them a little bit more interesting. So who are you? Where are you from? Where do you live? Walk us through your childhood. I know that when you and I first connected, you mentioned that you grew up in a family that had an art supply store. So tell us a little bit about that.

Mira Kida [04:43]

Sure. Yeah. So I was born and raised in Chicago on the North Side. Rogers Park, run by Evanston. And my dad had an art supply store. He had a couple of different stores, like in his heyday, like in the '90s. I think he had like 4 stores, and then he shrank down back to one. The flagship one was in Bucktown, Western and Fullerton. It was called Genesis Art Supply. And at one point it was like the last independent store, art store in the city.

Once, Dick Blick's came and everything. And then he— so, grew up going to his best customers' gallery openings and always, brought home a bunch of supplies and artistic and craft kits. And I kind of— I'm not a creative person, and sometimes I kind of wonder if it was like the overexposure that I sort of like what I almost like rejected it a little bit. But yeah, it was definitely like it was, a family thing. Even his— so his dad was in the industry too.

My grandfather, he had an art supply company called Sheldon's, which was his name. So it was definitely like a multigenerational family thing.

Christian Solorzano [06:13]

Yeah. And so what were you like as a kid? What kind of things— like, how would you keep yourself entertained? What were you into?

Mira Kida [06:22]

I was very active, so I did a lot of dance, gymnastics, basketball. Just, always got to be moving. My mom always brags because I started crawling at 3 months old, which is very early. It's like she's like, you had to go right from the beginning. You had to keep— you had to be moving. So yeah, I was always very active.

Christian Solorzano [06:45]

Yeah. And then how'd you end up doing what you're doing today, which is helping designers, helping creatives? Because, I mean, even though you said that you're not a creative person, I don't believe that. I feel like you are. But how'd you end up where you're at today, working with designers, helping them helping them professionally? Sure.

Mira Kida [07:09]

Yeah. So back to kind of like the family business thing. So after college, I actually joined the family business with my dad and I worked with him for about 4 or 5 years. And that was always the plan was like me and my brother were going to take it over. But due to some— we just had different goals with it. My dad really was focused on growth and me and my brother were a bit more focused on profitability.

And it just sort of I decided to take a step back because it just sort of seemed like my dad had a vision and a desire to get it fulfilled, and I was sort of getting in the way of that. So I took a step away from that, and I spent a couple of years just kind of trying to figure out what to do next. I felt a bit lost because that was always my plan.

So I somehow got hired at a design agency in Chicago, IA Collaborative, an amazing caliber of work that they do. And I was on the accounting and operations side. I met my husband there, and he is a designer. He's like a— he's a UX designer. And then we moved to Austin, Texas for a little while, and I was still doing accounting. I was still doing like the operations work, and— but I was very miserable.

And I'd always really loved job seeking, as weird as that might sound. I was— I'd done it a lot in my life, and I thought it was a really fun challenge. And I was so— I also sort of organically helped my friends a lot with it, had a lot of ideas of different approaches and different ways to do it. So I was like, well, maybe I should, go into recruiting.

And I started, reaching out and networking with recruiters that I'd worked with and my husband had worked with and really hit it off with a design recruiter that my husband had worked with because he was in design. And so, worked with him for some time and I kind of knew innately that I wouldn't enjoy another type of recruiting as much.

Like I had such a history working with creative people and artistic people, and I had a lot of empathy for what their needs— it's just, it's just different, and especially when people, creative people, are in the business world. It's very challenging, and I, and I feel like I've— I have a lot of understanding of that and can be can be helpful. For those unique needs.

Christian Solorzano [10:04]

Yeah. And what do you, what do you think are some of the most common misconceptions when it comes to creatives job hunting? Because I feel like sometimes we are not the best at talking about ourselves or there's like the, there's like the business side of design sometimes that I, that I think sometimes we're just not very good at, unfortunately.

So how do you like— are there any things that are like, what stands out? What's a common theme that you continue to see when people come to you or when you look through books or whatever? What's— yeah.

Mira Kida [10:42]

Well, I mean, the biggest thing is like, it's just this sense of chronic unfulfillment. Because they're, you're trying to make money in a world that doesn't quite understand your craft. And you're unable to really bring the work that you want to do to fruition.

And so it's just sort of like, how do you balance you feeling creatively fulfilled and nurtured and being able to reach your potential in an environment that often just does not— is the opposite? It's not supporting any of that. But then they expect you to, do the work that you can do if you only. So yeah, so I would say that.

And the people that have the 2 minds, like the business mind along with it, and like this, that, that's that strategy a lot, and then can also find a way to get their creative fulfillment, usually through other like side projects or their own personal work tend to be the most successful. Yeah, but everyone has their own like unique journey with it for sure.

Christian Solorzano [12:01]

And then, and then what about like recruiters? Because I feel like there's— what would I— so when you reached out to me, I was— I'm glad you did, but I get recruiters reaching out to me sometimes and I'm always very suspicious about like the recruiters that reach out, because a lot of them, like there's even some that have been like AI bots or something. Like clearly they're not real recruiters. Like it's not a real person.

So what's the most, what's the most challenging part of being a recruiter? Do you, just curious what's—

Mira Kida [12:33]

Yeah, I mean that like initial like distrust and hatred. Like you have to really learn how to like get someone to like you very quickly. Yeah. Or like, kind of put— assuage those. I mean, any— yeah, anytime I reach out, candidate or client side, it is always first off like that layer of who are you, what do you want, this is dirty, like something bad, like it's definitely— but I mean, I coming from like the how much customer service I've done in my life, like—

Serving in a restaurant, being on phone, not call center, but customer service phones. I think I've had a lot of exposure to it, so maybe it doesn't bother me as much. But yeah, it's like people do not like you. It's weird.

Christian Solorzano [13:31]

Well, I'm glad you reached out. And I forget what the initial interaction was, but it felt different. As compared to other recruiting messages or just interactions that I've gotten in the past.

And I think one of the— sometimes when I speak with especially younger people is that they feel intimidated sometimes to just reach out to someone because they're just afraid of that rejection, or maybe they overthink what they want to say, so they just don't say anything at all. So, how does someone get over that fear of just reaching out and sort of opening that door for a conversation with someone. How would you— did you ever struggle with reaching out?

Mira Kida [14:16]

Yeah, that's a really good question. Zero expectations and some— like, you've got to have a little of your heart in it. If you reach out with a really Nice message that's complimentary or authentic, or just really, hey, this is what's going on. I'm reaching out because of this reason. No worries if you don't. If you don't respond. That doesn't matter. Just wanted to check in. Like that kind of vibe is it. Then there's like I've almost rejected myself, I guess.

Like by saying, okay, I what I used to do at the end of it was like. If you don't reply, no worries. Thank you for reading this. Have a great day.

Christian Solorzano [15:05]

Do you think it's a good idea for those messages to be formal or informal? What's your, what's your take on a very formal introduction email as opposed to something that's just hey, what's up?

Mira Kida [15:18]

It's like a middle. Overly formal is a little like Something's up, something's off with that. And then overly informal, same thing. But it's like there's that word chatty, I guess. Which I mean, it's, I think, just sincerity and like niceness really like should be the tone.

Christian Solorzano [15:45]

Yeah. Because I do sometimes get or see very formal emails and I don't know, it just makes me feel weird because it's— I'm like, no one talks that way.

Mira Kida [15:57]

Yeah, maybe a bot or I don't know, like no one talks like that. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [16:01]

Yeah. So yeah, so something like in between, like not too informal but not too formal.

Yeah, I like that. And so the big thing that I want to focus on during our conversation is just what are— like, you obviously see a different side of the industry because, like for myself, like I'm looking at the industry from the perspective of a designer, but I feel like you have like this backstage pass where perhaps you're seeing things that many of us, many of the listeners probably don't have access to. So how is the design industry doing right now?

What are some trends that you're noticing? I feel yeah, I won't tell you, Hyphy. I don't want to influence your answer, but what's going on? How's the industry doing? What are some things that you're noticing?

Mira Kida [16:57]

It's definitely been tough for about 2 years now. And I think recruiters see it first, the hiring and the trends before it actually gets so bad, we'll start to see it go that way. So for me, for me, it was summer of '22. So we're at 2 years. And then we'll also, when it turns back, when it starts swinging back, we'll also see that first, which we have not seen yet, unfortunately.

But yeah, it's, I mean, companies are nervous. They don't, they don't wanna spend a lot of money. They don't really know what direction to go. There's Seems— it seems to be like a climate of— it's everything's kind of slippery.

It's, oh, we do want to hire, but no, we're not ready, or that budget, it just seemed— and that, I mean, due to, obviously all the economic factors that are going on and companies still sort of banking on AI saving them a bunch of money, but the implementation's not there, so that's not really happening. So yeah, it's tough. It's tough. The time of designers, being able to find a job, designers and creatives being able to find a job really easily, is not the time right now.

And it takes a lot of extra effort, or it's just not happening for a lot of people too, and they're having to figure out another route. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [18:45]

And do you see, I know AI is a big thing right now. Do you see it as a threat? Is it not a threat to you, but a threat to designers? Is it a real concern, or is it, do you think it's something that is what are your thoughts?

Mira Kida [19:00]

No, I don't. I'm— my unpopular opinion is no, I do not. I think it's more like, I don't know. I think it's just gonna damage things, but. Okay.

Christian Solorzano [19:15]

But do you, do you think it's gonna like how great of an impact do you think it's gonna have on the industry? 'Cause I remember, I mean, I think AI is definitely much more different than like NFTs, for instance, and like the NFTs in the metaverse, like that would, like a few years ago, there was a big hype around the metaverse and NFTs and, this idea that it was going to like disrupt everything.

AI feels a little bit differently, but do you think that eventually AI will just be a thing of the past and will sort of be like—

Mira Kida [19:44]

No, I don't think it'll be a thing of the past. But this whole like the— there's the— yeah, the just the what's around it as far as like the hype and the almost obsession. I'm hoping it'll become a little bit more of like a healthy integration. Obviously, the technology is like— I do think it's like the future and part of our world.

But as far as like cutting jobs, I know I have read a lot of things that say some jobs are just not coming back because of these tools. And that might be the case. I just don't know if it's to the extent of some of the what's published out there.

Christian Solorzano [20:35]

From your perspective, are certain companies replacing their designers with AI? Is that happening?

Mira Kida [20:41]

Not like cut and dry or like one for one like that. It's more of a desire for People with that understand the tools or can— yeah, I've not seen like, we have cut this role, it's not coming back because of AI or anything like that.

Christian Solorzano [21:04]

Because I know, yeah, because I've played around with AI and there's certain aspects of it that are useful, but there still needs to be a human there to like sort of facilitate that interaction with it. So, right. I hope that, I mean, I hope that job roles aren't eliminated or who knows? I don't know. That's the thing.

Mira Kida [21:28]

I think they're eliminated for other reasons. Yeah, let's put it that way. I think this desire to run lean, do more with less, and not invest. See, this is, it's like the investing in design that companies aren't doing.

Christian Solorzano [21:42]

Investing in their in their people or investing in the technology?

Mira Kida [21:48]

In growing their team and having like a robust design organization. They— that seems to have not— that has fallen by the wayside in this period.

Christian Solorzano [22:00]

And from your perspective, I feel like culture is such a big driving force that leads companies to be successful or to innovate and to do great things. And from your experiences, what are some things that you've seen as really great drivers of culture? Like either for people that are perhaps joining a new company or getting their first design job, or maybe someone that has their own studio, how do you build culture? Because I feel like culture is really not something that is talked about that much.

It's sort of like this invisible force that's like it's either there or it's not. But what are your thoughts around design culture and how that exists within companies and teams?

Mira Kida [22:48]

It's a really good question. I mean, yeah, like there's all those like things like culture is not pizza Friday or beer pong tables or whatever. Yeah, it's— I mean, the best cultures that I've worked with as, companies I've worked with are just when their designers have a voice, when they have a seat at the table, when they're brought in from the beginning of the process, they're in the strategy piece. They're not just that end resource.

When they're able to, kind of back to my earlier point, do their craft and their creativity is fostered. It's much more like the fulfilling work aspect, I would say, than anything else.

Christian Solorzano [23:46]

And for the— and for people that maybe are in the positions where— in leadership positions, what are some things that they can do to foster that culture?

Mira Kida [23:57]

I think having programs in place that are kind of outside of just client work or what's kind of— what's sort of on the docket as far as this company needs, but some way to collaborate and program. So and I mean, a little of these are overrated, but like lunch and learns or, programs like that. But I do think that it's really nice.

And I've seen, I've seen really people, you really rise to the occasion, you love it and you feel like inspired and kind of have something else to put your creative energy into.

Christian Solorzano [24:44]

No, I agree, because I know that there was like that thing happening maybe I think it was like last year where people were quiet quitting and they were just sort of like doing the bare minimum at their jobs because From what I read, there is just no— people were just feeling like there is no purpose in, going above and beyond if there's no reciprocity or there's really no space that would appreciate those kind of interactions.

And I like that you mentioned Lunch and Learn because I think sometimes what I've noticed is that when all we do is design and work without having that space to just not do work, but to talk about the work or maybe experiment or play or do all of those things. I feel like that's where the cool ideas come when there's almost no brief, no project brief.

It's just let's just give ourselves our own fun projects or, dedicate one day of the week or a few hours a month to just do our own personal projects within a company.

Mira Kida [25:49]

For instance, you're going to do it anyways on your own to be able to kind of do it in with your teammates too. I also think that inspires better collaboration for the paid or the client work too. Like something that provides a framework where you individually are inspired or can bring inspiration.

Christian Solorzano [26:09]

Yeah, and exactly. And like where you could try new things and there's no risk involved, there's going to be no angry clients. Like there's going to be no— right. Yeah, just no big risk. Because do you think people are afraid today to maybe rock the boat a little bit?

Because sometimes when I look at portfolios, for instance, or talk to my peers about design work, I feel like sometimes people are a little bit afraid to maybe say something that might challenge the status quo or that might go against what is normal. And I say this in regards to, for instance, portfolios, a lot of them looking the same.

Nowadays, or designers talking about themselves in like a very similar way when it's like, right, if you could just swap their name out and put any other name and it would still be the same thing. What are your thoughts around that? Do you notice that? And when you do, what do you think?

Mira Kida [27:07]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think being— first of all, it's hard. It's hard to be different. It's scary. And so much of us are on display in this digital world we live in through social. Everything's curated, right? And your portfolio is that. So to really, take a risk, be different, be open to criticism, of course, that's very difficult. And with— I mean, with the internet and the comments you could receive, or like, people are meaner. Online because they can be.

Yeah, I think it's definitely like exasperated that very normal thing that everyone has.

Christian Solorzano [27:54]

Yeah, because sometimes I feel like we— because the industry seems to be so saturated, at least there's so many. I feel like there's so much competition and there are so many designers going after, let's say, the same job. It almost I don't know, like it creates this environment where there's— I don't know, I just— what I keep coming back to is like there's nothing that has like— I feel like sometimes what's missing is like an edge. Like there's— we're playing it too safe sometimes.

I feel— I personally feel that way.

Mira Kida [28:33]

Yeah. I mean, I was just thinking about this, like to get a job, it's like you have to be like Go to actually get noticed, you have to kind of go to like one or like to an extreme. So either you're like blowing up on social with your video resume that has a bazillion likes, and then you're— then you get up, or you're going the other way and you're sending a handwritten letter, or you're walking into a business.

You have to go to some extreme to get noticed.

Christian Solorzano [29:01]

And have you seen any examples of someone that really stood out to you that really that was really doing something different.

Mira Kida [29:08]

My husband put a video on his portfolio 10 years ago and it was— it was— I thought it was kind of corny, but like no one else had it. And it was like, it was kind of like just like this piece of him in the city talking about his work. And it was— it really stood out. I'd never seen any book like that.

Christian Solorzano [29:26]

A lot of portfolios, for instance, look the same. I feel like there's an opportunity right there to really do something differently. So for someone, it actually might be a good thing that like everything feels very safe and similar because there's— it'll be much easier to stand out. So because there's— because, there— if everything looks the same, then I feel like that affords you the possibility to maybe try something a little bit differently, like a video.

Or even like I was talking with a friend a while ago and he was showing me his portfolios that he used to mail to clients like in the mail, like in the early '90s. And they were like these big fat books and they were like expensive to make. They were expensive to ship, but people would receive them, just a lot of pages, and they would look through the work.

And even when I was in school, I remember having to print an actual portfolio and like bring it to a job interview?

Mira Kida [30:28]

So, yeah, I mean, those little touches like I have a friend in business development, and whenever she would invite someone for coffee, she would mail them a Starbucks or send them a Starbucks gift card so that they could— she really would be coffeeing on her even though it was virtual. It's like $5. But that little thing, I mean, it made it— wowed the client, the potential client every time.

It's one of my favorite stories, like finding— you just have to Find some way to stand out, to be individualized, and kind of show your stuff, what you're capable of. You know what I mean?

Christian Solorzano [31:09]

There is a previous guest shared a business card that someone gave, or the business cards that he saw once, and the business card said, keep this for good luck. And it's cool, right? It's like a little touch. And it's like it almost makes you not want to throw it out because you're like, what if I throw it out? I'm going to get bad luck.

Mira Kida [31:29]

So, yeah.

Christian Solorzano [31:31]

That's cool. So I feel like there's a lot of stuff, and I think that's one of the reasons why I wanted to have this conversation with you, because you obviously look at a different side of things. And yeah, I'm just curious, what are some other stories that you can share about some of your experiences? How does someone come in contact with you, and then how do you work with a designer to help them land a position with a company?

And sort of what's that process like of someone maybe having— I'm guessing they do a first call with you, and then what's that process like for someone?

Mira Kida [32:09]

So yeah, usually there's an initial contact made from the recruiter because there's a job that we think would be a good fit for the candidate. And that's usually how the relationship starts. So, and it— so yeah, so we would reach out. We've got this job. If it interests them, then we would present you to the client and kind of facilitate getting feedback and any sort of interviews that would follow with that.

If a candidate, as far as a candidate wanting help with their job search, that's generally like a career coach. I mean, we can provide like feedback on your resume and portfolio, and obviously can always like— you can be kept in mind for anything that comes along. But the— it's not like we're actively going to be looking for jobs on your behalf, if that makes sense.

Christian Solorzano [33:27]

In conversations that I sometimes have with, again, with younger people, especially people just finishing school, is like just not knowing where to start when it comes to building your portfolio. What are some must-haves that every portfolio must include?

Mira Kida [33:49]

Yeah. So we'd like to see like 3 or 4 case studies. That's a good starting point. If as robust as they can be as far as process, your involvement, what exactly you did, your contributions to the project. Mentions of your collaborators is always really nice. That really rounds out the picture and kind of what the full kind of story of the project.

It's— I mean, any personal touches that you can do, like those About Me pages, may not seem like a big deal, but it is nice, to kind of get a sense of you and what you're looking for and who you are, like some personal, pieces that differentiate. Those are amazing. It really like helps with that picture. And any sort of design or creative elements you can add to the portfolio outside of the case study. So, really showcasing your creativity, your design.

Your personal kind of, obviously there's client work, so it is yours, but it's something that's anything that's— it should look like you as much as it can.

Christian Solorzano [35:22]

Yeah. And when it comes to the About page, for instance, how personal should it get? Because sometimes people tend to keep it just work-related. And I always tell people to share a little bit about maybe their personal interests or their hobbies so that there's more to that person as opposed to, I'm just an employee or someone looking to work.

Mira Kida [35:48]

I agree. Yeah, because it makes someone stick out to you. You like cats and fried rice. I don't know, whatever it is. Yeah, just a few little things is yeah. Because it's— you're kind of showing— you're like making a little like mark. I like the layout even is different as a differentiator.

If I'm scrolling through 20 of these and there's something that looks different or unique or playful or like with how you're navigating, like that really sticks out and that then I'm there, I'm staying, and I'm looking and I'm reading more.

Christian Solorzano [36:34]

Yeah. And realistically, when you're going through portfolios, how many seconds does it take before you either X out of it or you like click into it? Is it very just—

Mira Kida [36:46]

Yeah, it's—

Christian Solorzano [36:49]

How many seconds do they have to make an impression?

Mira Kida [36:51]

Unless I'm looking for something really particular, like I need to see like financial services or whatever, yeah, it can be like 5 to 10 seconds. It can be very fast.

Christian Solorzano [37:08]

And what are some of the— so when it comes to, you said 3 to 4 projects, right?

Mira Kida [37:15]

Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [37:17]

Okay. And is it, do you think that if like, when is it appropriate to include more than that? If there's— is that sort of what you think is the minimum? Or if there's—

Mira Kida [37:32]

Yeah, that's a good number. I mean, you can do a little bit more. I wouldn't do less than 3. 10 is kind of overkill. That's why we have, you can put that on your Behance and your Dribbble or whatever. It doesn't need to be in your portfolio. But yeah, I would say that's the sweet spot.

Christian Solorzano [37:54]

Yeah. And also, I sometimes when I have these conversations, I don't know if you've noticed this, but I always tell people that they should be excited about the projects that they have. They should be super proud and like want to just brag about them and like just be really proud and passionate about the projects. Because I've noticed sometimes people will include projects that they're almost like embarrassed about. They like it, but they kind of don't like it. Do you— have you seen that as well?

People being a little bit shy?

Mira Kida [38:27]

Why would they put it in there though? If they didn't like it, they think it's gonna—

Christian Solorzano [38:34]

I think, from what I've heard, I think it's because they think they need to have a certain number. And sometimes just to have that number, and they'll include as much as possible just to have that number.

Mira Kida [38:48]

Yeah, well, I mean, you should have the you should show the work that you want to do. If all you've done is footwear brands and you don't want to do that anymore, if you show me a portfolio with 20 different case studies of footwear brands, where do we go? So yeah, it should be the work you want to do because that's what I'm looking for.

Christian Solorzano [39:15]

From the perspective of, let's say, the employer that's looking to hire, is there Are there different audiences that a portfolio should try to meet? I imagine there's the craft, and that's the audience for that is probably the design team that's looking to hire them. But then perhaps there might be the hiring manager, the business. Who are the audiences that one should take into consideration when working on a portfolio? Because I feel like it's not just always just the design team? Yeah.

Mira Kida [39:50]

Yes, that's a really interesting question. But you need to make your portfolio for the design team. Yeah, not for the HR. That's what the resume is for, is for everyone else. But yeah, your portfolio is for the design team.

Christian Solorzano [40:07]

And when it comes to the resume, how in-depth should it be? Does it need to be a lot of text? Should it be like, should it be, should it have a lot or should it have a little in regards, in regards to content? Because sometimes there could just be a lot of bullets and it just jam-packs everything and it looks so tight.

Mira Kida [40:29]

So yeah. I mean, 3 to 5 for each tenure is good of the most impressive things. It doesn't need to be everything you've ever done. Like when there's— when you have like a wealth of experience, like you've been doing this a really long time, obviously the earliest 10 years don't need any bullets. Just kind of focus on the last like 10 years or so. So yeah, I mean, everything on the resume should be like impressive. Oh, not just like I did this, duh, that's your job.

Like it— oh, you actually like the above and beyond, something notable like that. That's what warrants like to be on your resume, not just the job description. And then the visual, what the resume like looks like, should also— I always say I like when it matches the portfolio, like the font, the colors, the— like, that's really beautiful package and all those little details.

Attention to detail, it really shows how you're going to be in the role and how the work that you're going to do, like that presentation of yourself.

Christian Solorzano [41:46]

So we talked about resume, we talked about website, about the portfolio. Anything else that you feel like is something that's a big differentiator today? Like we kind of covered a little bit on like personal projects. And I feel like personal projects are such a great way to showcase that there's more to you, that a passion and not just a job, which it's totally fine if it's just a job.

Mira Kida [42:15]

Yeah. Yeah. I think having a little bit of your personal work that's clearly labeled as your personal work is really nice because it shows like your capabilities and what you can do without those boundaries, or what you haven't been exposed to, especially when you're earlier in your career. I love that. I okay. I do have some clients that are looking for that. Absolutely. That is going to be. It's not a lot of the time, especially like large corporations. That that's not a big ask.

But I do like have some smaller clients or smaller agencies that do want to see. That you, that you really have like that passion for what you do and you're not just gonna clock out because you're done for your day. It's, this is, you're living and breathing it. You, yeah, that is, that is sometimes. And so that would be a fit, right? A culture fit to find someone that's showcasing that. If that's authentically you, then you should definitely portray that.

If it's not, there are definitely Tons of roles out there that just want to make sure you can do what they need and they don't care about anything else. And so you're— you can portray that if that's who you are. That's fine. You'll find the right— you'll find something. I don't— I don't like that. You shouldn't try to, play the game, you know what I mean?

Christian Solorzano [43:47]

Yeah. Yeah. No, I get what you're saying. Yeah. And then, and then also, what are your thoughts on, setting boundaries? I feel like setting boundaries is such an important part of just any profession, I think, like having clear boundaries and just like looking out for yourself.

I feel like it's very easy to get taken advantage of, especially when maybe you're starting off as a junior designer because you don't have a lot of experience and maybe you don't know much about how the industry works, but what are your thoughts on how to avoid burnout? I feel like we're— a lot of us are probably really burnt out. Just, we live in a culture that just— that's what we celebrate is like the hustle.

And if you're not doing that, then it's like, well, you kind of are looked down upon. So.

Mira Kida [44:40]

Yeah, I mean, this is kind of a tricky one because there is a school of thought where you kind of have to earn your stripes, and it's some of those— some of these really amazing agencies with amazing clients, you're working a lot, and that's how you get the portfolio to get the higher paying jobs, to be desirable, to get ahead.

If someone's not interested in that and they're, more focused on work-life balance from the jump, then they may not get the exposure or they just kind of might have a different path. And that's like, that's personal. I'm not going to tell you should work 80 hours a week or you shouldn't. You should do what you want. But it's definitely and some people really, they're into it.

They're really into the hustle because they want to get ahead and they know where it can take them because they've seen it. And the trajectory is pretty intense. You can get— I mean, if you think about like any other industry, like entrepreneurs, which are going to get the most, accumulate the most amount of wealth in their life, you're not going to from salary. You're working around the clock for 10 years and then you're good, right?

So, but I mean, the boundary thing, especially that makes me think of like the free work, right? Or like the tests, and the bazillion rounds of interview, like that kind of stuff that I do feel like designers are exposed to more than any other industry or profession, like that kind of stuff. It gets kind of sticky. And there definitely needs to be better guidelines as to what you're allowed to go through to get some of these jobs.

Christian Solorzano [46:48]

Yeah. And on that note, what are some red flags that I feel like people should be on the lookout for in this industry or when looking for jobs or whatever? What would be some of your red flags to look out for?

Mira Kida [47:04]

I mean, the test thing is interesting. So I do have some clients who do it, and we always say if it's like under an hour or 2, it's okay if it's not paid, because that could be 2 interviews, right? But if it's more than that and it looks like it's free work for them, then don't. It's big. Don't do it like that. You do not want to join that company.

If it looks like it could be actually something they could use rather than an assessment of your capabilities, that is a huge red flag.

Christian Solorzano [47:41]

I remember I had to, for a job once, they made me do like an hour-long, like it was so long of a test. And they were like, you did a good job, Christian. But then like, I never heard back. And sometimes, I mean, this is, it's been like maybe 8 years, 9 years since this happened. And sometimes a part of me just wants to like, reply to that email from back then and be like, hey, just waiting for any update.

But yeah, obviously that doesn't feel good when you— and it was not paid. And it was clearly something that they probably could have used. It was a presentation.

Mira Kida [48:24]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. It's hard because you're in a vulnerable position because you're trying to be agreeable. And show your worth. And it is a hard— I mean, and this is the nice thing about working with recruiters is we have these— we can— we've done this so much, we do know, okay, yeah, this is typical. No, this is getting a little like— and then I can, work on that on your behalf. On pushback.

Christian Solorzano [49:00]

Yeah. And then what about, the other thing that I sometimes often think about designers maybe not being super equipped with having conversations about, and it's just money and salary and all those things. What's your advice for someone determining what their value is as a designer?

Mira Kida [49:24]

I mean, there's so many tools out there to do your research. It shouldn't be— and with all the job descriptions having salaries on them now, it shouldn't be a mystery.

What, the going rate is for your experience level. As far as, how to navigate those conversations, it is very difficult if you don't give a number. I know a lot of— there's a lot of strategies out there. It's like, don't say a number first, don't say a number first. And I understand that, but it is very difficult because you do— every person looking for a job does have a number.

They know what they need to be fulfilled for their life, to pay their bills, and to feel good about the job, that potential job that's in front of them. And if you're not but if you're not sharing that, then how are you going to get it?

Christian Solorzano [50:36]

Yeah.

Mira Kida [50:37]

You know what I mean? And you can build in healthy increases for yourself as you're going through, as you're advancing in your career. And you can pad it a little bit if— and then if you feel like you're leaving money on the table and always kind of reiterate that this is your— we call it like ready-to-accept number. I would, I would accept tomorrow for this number. I would have to think about this number.

That kind of takes you— doesn't take you out of the running. They know what they need to get a yes from you, and they can decide if they want to do that or not.

Christian Solorzano [51:34]

Yeah, I feel like that's always a tricky conversation for people to have.

Mira Kida [51:39]

Sure. And also because there's always that trepidation of, yeah, you don't want to leave money on the table, but you're also like, you're scared to say the number you really want. At least I am. I'm always terrified to actually say that number that I really want because I don't feel like I'm worth it.

Christian Solorzano [51:59]

Yeah. And then you're like, well, if I say that number, then maybe they'll be like, nope. And then they'll just say goodbye.

Mira Kida [52:06]

Which happens. It does. Not often, but it does. So that's why the whole ready to accept thing, it makes it so they don't just say you're out of price range?

Christian Solorzano [52:26]

Yeah. And are there any other things about that we haven't covered yet that you feel like are sort of essentials that people need to know about? I feel like there's so much that— there's so much that we've covered. I think community plays a big role, just being connected with other designers and maybe sharing experiences about interviews or cover letters and all that kind of stuff. I feel like that plays a really big role.

And I think what's cool about Chicago, at least from my perspective, is that there's people that are willing to have these conversations about these type of things.

Mira Kida [53:12]

Yeah, transparency, community, but also like, don't get bogged down by like these little numbers and tips and, oh, I gotta have this, I gotta have this. Really, none of it matters. Really, if you, if you find like you're looking for, you're selling yourself, you're trying to find someone that is going to hire you because of the value you bring. And if you get too, caught up in, the strategy of it or how— what this is on my resume, it's going— you're gonna go crazy.

Because I've gotten jobs without a resume. It's just meaning, I didn't apply to anything. I didn't, I didn't submit anything. So really take— yes, obviously it's nice to know the numbers and what everyone's thinking about and looking about, but it's— so much of it is figuring out the value that you have and how you can— what that's going to give for the potential employer and communicating that. Yeah. In one of these ways.

Christian Solorzano [54:36]

Yeah. And then most importantly, what's your recommendation for just designers maintaining sanity when they're getting rejected or just when there's not a lot going on?

Mira Kida [54:50]

Yeah, stop applying. I would say stop applying and start meeting people and start connecting with people. Like there's only so much you can take. Like I know that with unemployment you do have to kind of show some applications and whatnot, but I don't. I it's I don't think it gets you anywhere right now. This like applying online honestly, and like start just thinking of other ways to meet people, meet potential and connect with people. See where that leads you.

Just get a little bit more creative with the job process and don't just do the cookie-cutter standard.

Christian Solorzano [55:43]

Well, I know we're almost at time, but I just want to say thank you so much for the conversation. It flew by, and I feel like you're such a great resource. If people want to get a hold of you, is it okay if people reach out with questions after the show? Are you open to that? Of course.

Mira Kida [56:04]

Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you. You're so nice.

Christian Solorzano [56:07]

And then just back to Mira, how do you balance doing the work that you do and how do you keep your sanity or how do you go about just taking care of yourself or what kind of things are you into? What's the mirror that we don't see?

Mira Kida [56:23]

I mean, this sounds kind of cliché, but back to basics. Nature, family, friends, like anything that feeds your soul. Like that. I mean, yeah, getting outside, is huge. Turning off the mind with some mindless entertainment. Like being with my kid obviously brings you straight to the present, that little child mind and stuff. So that makes things way easier.

Christian Solorzano [57:01]

Well, thank you so much. I am going to I'll include your details in the description for this episode. So if anyone wants to get ahold of you, they can. But if not, I mean, I hope that you could attend some of our future events and people get an opportunity to connect with you in person.

Mira Kida [57:17]

Absolutely. I would love that. Thank you so much.

Christian Solorzano [57:19]

Anything else before we end our conversation?

Mira Kida [57:22]

Just want to say for anyone out there listening who's struggling with their job search, I just want to say that I promise this is temporary and it's not you. I want to scream that from the mountaintops. It is not you. You did nothing wrong. You're not doing anything wrong. You are amazing. This is a beautiful industry that we're in that is— it's just getting a beating right now. So just please hear me when I say it's not evil.

Christian Solorzano [57:58]

As usual, thanks for tuning in. To learn more about Underscore or the Chicago Graphic Design Club, visit www.chicagographicdesign.club. Thank you, and we'll talk soon. Goodbye.