Christian Solorzano [00:05]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a podcast by the Chicago Graphic Design Club dedicated to bringing you conversations with Chicago's creative leaders. On this podcast, we'll explore the craft, theory, and practice of graphic design, plus discuss bold ideas that push the boundaries of what's possible and ways in which we can create a more thoughtful and inclusive community. To learn more about us, visit our website at www.chicagographicdesign.club or find us on social media. Special thanks to the Chicago band Eighties Slang for our theme music.

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [00:44]

Thank you.

Christian Solorzano [00:56]

Hello, I am your host today, Christian Solorzano, and today I'm speaking with Nicolette Stosur-Bassett, a business strategist and communications professional working primarily in the social impact space. In 2018, she founded Do it Better Design, a Chicago-based branding and communications studio. She graduated with a BA in Social Enterprise and an MA in Social Innovation and Sustainability from Goddard College.

In 2022, she spoke with the Chicago Graphic Design Club about her project Designing For, an examination of the ways in which the global pandemic shaped the personal practices of designers and their approach to community engagement. Today, Nicolette is a Chief Branding and Communications Officer for Healthy Building Network, an organization that focuses on the sustainability of building materials. And she leads their brand, vision, communications, and marketing strategy. I personally appreciate Nicolette's curiosity, introspective attitude, and commitment to building equitable worlds, and I like her perspective on design.

So welcome, Nicolette. Very happy to be speaking with you today.

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [02:15]

Hello, Christian. Happy to be here.

Christian Solorzano [02:17]

Happy to be here. So I Read that in high school, you went to a public high school, and you felt a little bit jaded by what you described as forced learning. So could you tell me a little bit about your high school experience and what that was like?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [02:37]

High school. Yeah, absolutely. I went to 2 different high schools in the western suburbs of Chicago. And I've been incredibly privileged and fortunate in my life to have a family that deeply values education. And that deep commitment to education translated to a lot of unique educational opportunities in my formative years leading up to high school. So I've been to Montessori schools and science and arts academies, and I was homeschooled for a period of time.

And so the transition to high school was difficult in many ways because I was entering a system of non-self-motivated learning and education. And I think just prior to entering high school I had been homeschooled where our curriculum was really rooted in kind of self-motivated learning, self-driven education. Things that were interesting to me, we could dig really deeply into, which you don't always have the opportunity to do in school.

I think from an academic perspective, I was mostly confused by a system that values metrics and systems of measurement that do not necessarily equate with understanding or deep learning. And so I would say my entire high school experience really, was that kind of exploring that tension or caught up in that tension of, this is how you're measuring success by, grade point average, by how did you do on this test, by et cetera.

And what I really valued was deep learning and deep education around topics that were important and interesting to me. And so I would say that there was kind of a persistent tension throughout that experience at both of the schools that I went to.

Christian Solorzano [04:25]

And what were some of those interests that you had in high school, personal interests?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [04:30]

Personal interests, I was really interested in film, really interested in art, really interested in philosophy. I found a notebook just the other day going through some old boxes where I was like, self-assigning myself readings about the dualism of man and Descartes and all of these things when I was like 14. So I think I was into some interesting stuff. But really all of that stemmed from an appreciation for beauty. And aesthetics have always been incredibly important to me. In high school, I was very into fashion.

It's always been a deep passion of mine. I'm still incredibly passionate about fashion. I started working for designers when I was in high school, fashion designers. And so doing, sewing, creating my own clothing, creating, objects for everyday life, I would say those were all things that I was involved in or were interests.

Christian Solorzano [05:32]

So when you went into college, I read that you learned that you could study anything in your college that you went to. And what was that?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [05:41]

Were—

Christian Solorzano [05:42]

How did you— were you allowed to create your own curriculum? Or how did that— what was the experience there going from high school into something that is a little bit more personalized to you?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [05:52]

Yeah, sure. So in high school, I would say I barely graduated. We were all really surprised when the diploma came through. I was not an excellent student. I really, because I just didn't care, I was really ambivalent about the system of measurement. I was like, okay, grades, whatever. I don't really care about that. One funny story that my family will tell from my childhood is I was in, an English class. We got assigned to write a paper about Shakespeare.

It was a particular play I had already read before, so I turned in a paper about a play that was not our assignment. That teacher was like, hey, this totally wasn't the assignment. Why did you write a paper on this other play? And I was like, well, I had, I had read the one that you assigned us, so I just read a different one.

And if the purpose was learning, you shouldn't have a problem with that because I just wanted to learn about Shakespeare, but you wanted to grade something that was, fitting within the assignment boundaries. And so I didn't actually directly find a great college after high school. I didn't think I would go to college, actually. I refused to apply to any institution that required test scores. So that really limits your options.

I was really looking at just a couple different places, and I, and I first ended up— I actually went to 3 different colleges trying to find my way. I first ended up at an institution called Shimer College. That was a great book school, really rooted in the history of Western philosophy. And at Shimer, students don't take tests. There aren't professors, there aren't finals.

You're sitting around an octagonal table with a facilitator, not a professor, and they're facilitating Socratic dialogue in conversation about the great works of Western philosophy and Western literature. And I had some, that wasn't really a great fit for me because I didn't see the applications of a lot of the philosophical works that we were reading in today's job market, and also just, our cultural context that we're living in the 21st century.

So I went from there to briefly to Columbia College for just a semester where I was studying fashion design. And that didn't feel like the best fit either. I don't think I'm an art, an art student at heart. And so there were a lot of gen ed classes that were required of me that I just really wanted to go right into pattern making and kind of really get into the meat of the fashion side of things. And that wasn't the way that their curriculum is paced.

So I took a break for a while. I moved to Vermont, and when I was in Vermont, I found out about this school called Goddard. And the way that Goddard was pitched to me was that you can study whatever you want. And I didn't believe it. And part of, part of Goddard's requirements, graduation requirements, are that all students have to present their work to the community, both the Goddard community and the larger community that they're impacting in the world.

And when I went to some graduating students' presentations, it really became clear to me that you could, in fact, study whatever you wanted. And so Goddard is really a place for students who are asking big questions. The pedagogy of the college is based off of John Dewey's principles of experiential education. So really learning by doing. And similar to Shimer, Goddard does not have grades. They do not have tests. You do not have professors.

All of the learning is student-driven, and it's really a curriculum that students are designing themselves around areas of interest and focus. So well, Goddard has many different degree programs. I was in the kind of self-designed degree program, really specifically an independent study program, and my focus was around social enterprise. And I think I ended up there because I was, used to working for small businesses and businesses that had values.

And as I, got older in my career, I realized eventually that wasn't always going to be financially feasible. I would have to get, quote unquote, a real job somewhere. And when I looked at my real job prospects, I was like, man, all these companies are awful. Like they're doing awful things for the planet. They're not treating their employees well. I don't want to work for one of these places. There's got to be a better option.

And so I really started with that question of like, okay, what are the options? And why aren't there businesses that are doing better things for people on the planet? And so that's where I started really building, my expertise around alternative business models and this idea of social enterprise as something that's viable in a context of, capitalism.

Christian Solorzano [10:38]

Yeah. And it seems like a lot of the work that you tend to focus on is about the welfare of the Earth, which I absolutely love. And I know that it's something that you see more and more get discussed today, but for you, it seems like it's just been a lifelong passion. So at what point was that seed planted in you to really focus on sustainability, social impact? Was that something that your parents taught you, or where did that come from?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [11:13]

I mentioned earlier, I have a family that's deeply committed to education. My time and my experiences being homeschooled really shifted the way that I probably view the world. Both of my parents are educators, and I think that the way that my mom structured my— what is effectively my middle school curriculum was really in a kind of decolonized context. It was anti-colonial. And, her philosophy was, Look, the patriarchy is out there. You'll learn about the patriarchy in all of these facets of your life as an adult.

During these 4 years together, I'm going to show you what was written out of history.

And so we spent a long time studying, Native practices, Native identities, Native land, and going to those places and learning about, farming traditions and going really deep into subjects that you wouldn't study in school reading only about famous or not so famous women who were written out of history and figures that didn't make it into the history books like Galileo's daughter or Mary Todd Lincoln, the people that were really pivotal— excuse me, pivotal, but didn't have a starring role.

And I think that just imbued at a really early age a passion for untold stories and for making sure that, when you start to appreciate these untold stories, you understand how the dominant narrative really overrides incredible work that's been done for a very long time by a lot of people. And that passion for almost exposing the incredible work that has been done, is being done today, is something that really stuck with me.

I'm also someone who, feels strongly that kind of, if you're not solving the problem, you're kind of part of the problem. And so, as I looked around the world and was just kind of seeing all of this inequity everywhere, I really didn't have a choice to not be a part of the solution. I think one moment that sticks out to me, I was, I was working for a fashion designer as a studio assistant when I was like 19. I had an internship.

And, she said to me, all of the clothes that I make, I can't actually buy them. I don't make enough money to buy my own clothes. And I was like, that's crazy? That's— how do we live in a society where you don't even have the option to purchase your own things that you're making with your own labor, right? How is there that insane differential?

And so it's never been an option for me to not work on solving some of the problems that I see with the power structures that exist in our society.

Christian Solorzano [14:11]

Yeah. And as you were growing up and as you were getting exposed to a lot of these things, did you— were you able to find perhaps other peers or people that were around your age that were also interested in these things? Because I imagine and I'm speaking about this because I had a sort of similar upbringing, but for me, I didn't have the perhaps like the luxury of like my parents being the ones to like teach some of these, some of these things to me.

So I was the one that was sort of pursuing that. And one of the things that I would always notice was that the more I felt like I learned, the more lonely it felt, or like the more isolated I felt. And I mean, to an extent, like I still feel some of that today, especially when you see the state of the world and you see everything that's going on.

And you see that there's like a minority of people that are actually like, rolling up their sleeves and doing something about it. So how do you, how'd you balance that? Because I'm assuming that with the recognition of so much inequality and global issues, it cultivates some sort of internal anger, like angst against like everything that's going on in the world. So did you— How did you encounter that? How do you balance, learning these things but also existing within this system that is so difficult to escape?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [15:36]

Yeah, it's a really good question. I'm gonna answer it in 2 parts. I think there's the part of like the isolation and loneliness that comes from pursuing a path of inquiry that might not be the common path. And then there's also this like, how do you fit if you are impassioned to follow a path, how do you fit within the larger dominant narrative? So seeing that 2 ways, I think in terms of loneliness and isolation, yeah, absolutely.

Did I find peers who were interested? 100% no, like absolutely not. I think, I have the type of brain that likes to go deep into topics that are interesting to me. I don't care if those topics aren't interesting to other people like that is irrelevant to me. So for a long time I got really passionate about garbage, which is not a topic that other people are like passionate about. It's like something that comes that like picks up, gets picked up at your house.

And so did I find like people who were in the garbage community? People? Yeah, for sure. But I don't think any one community can ever support all of someone's interests. And so I've been in many ways fringe affiliated with a lot of different communities. And I think that really speaks to the intersectionality of sustainability of the field of design, because there are so many inroads and entry points where there are many disciplines kind of coming together. In my mind, they all exist as one.

There is kind of one tangled ball of yarn. They are not kind of separable from each other. Typically, when you go to college, you are learning a curriculum that is going to set you up for a professional career. The education that I had wasn't really centered around that. It was really focused on how do you solve problems and how do you solve problems in a complex environment.

And so when you're solving problems in a complex environment, there's a lot of intersectionality that connects you and the problems that you're solving to all of the people that are experiencing the problem and creating the problem at a systems level. And it's hard to find a community when the work that you're doing is so fractured across many different ways of thinking, modes of being, etc. So that idea of loneliness and fragmentation and not really feeling like I've had a community is absolutely real.

And the second part of your question, I think, is, how do you exist doing something different in the context of, a dominant narrative that doesn't always support that? I think it's really just trial and error and figuring out where you fit. This idea of like, get in where you fit in. I think I've had a career that's largely been working on my own. I've worked as a consultant. I've had my own studio.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about how to frame my problem-solving skill set in a way that makes sense to other people. That they can see it through the lens of that dominant narrative of like, this is the industry that you're a part of, this is the community that you exist within, etc. And I don't have a, an answer to that. I think it's just difficult. I think it's just difficult when you take any path that's less tread.

It's going to be harder, right, to walk down that path. And it's just a process of self-discovery and understanding the changing context around you. To know how to frame what you're offering in a way that appeals to the moment. So one example of that is, when I was studying social enterprise at Goddard, social enterprise as a term didn't even exist.

So my studies at the time were really in sustainable business, and then social enterprise became more of a field, and then it was like, oh cool, now I can call this social enterprise because people will understand what that means. And so I feel like a lot of my career has been figuring out ways to code what it is that I'm interested in such that other people can understand.

Christian Solorzano [19:49]

Yeah, I see that. And you also have a— so you and I, we met through graphic design, through the Chicago Graphic Design Club. And I know you're really interested in design's relationship with much of what you're talking about. So for you personally, where does design come in? Where does graphic design come in? How do you— could you talk a little bit about your fascination with the discipline and sort of how you see it revolve around much of what you're talking about?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [20:19]

Yeah, absolutely. So I first discovered design when I was in grad school. I was doing my degree program with social innovation and sustainability. I was really interested in looking at specifically waste. I was, I was there to study garbage and waste generating systems, cultures of industrial production and manufacturing. Why do we create so much stuff was basically the question.

And as I started to do research into why we have so much stuff and what we do with it, right, which is mostly throw it away, I started to see a lot of behavioral challenges. So for instance, when you are in a cafeteria and you go to throw away your lunch, there are 3 different containers. Do you put something in compost? Do you put something in recycling? What goes in the trash? Like that decision, that behavioral choice is really a communications and a design challenge, right?

It's the signage that tells you this is what goes where, and the design of maybe the size of the bin, the color of the bin, the shape of the bin, and the design of the experience itself, right? Where is the garbage can within the context of the cafeteria, etc? And so I became really interested in the power of design to shape experiences and to shape eventually social and environmental outcomes. And so I began to look at design as a tool for systems change.

And the way that the prime— the primary way that you're interacting with design as a member of the public is through graphic design. If you think about signage, wayfinding, just messages that you're receiving from being in the public space. So if you want, or if one wants to change social outcomes at a large-scale public level, then you need to be able to communicate with the public. And the best way that I saw to do that was through design and through graphic design.

And so that really kind of seeded an interest within me to figure out how do we, how do we create these changes and what do I need to learn to successfully contribute and incorporate some of these ideas into the work that I'm doing. At the same time, I was also in a certificate program with a nonprofit that used to exist called ArchiWorks.

And I was doing a certificate in public interest design and really exposed to, human-centered design methods and practices and figuring out how to take that into my work around a practicum project about building materials reuse. And so both of those experiences of, how can design be used as a tool to instigate systems change, and then how do we work with people in communities to better understand problems. That's really where my interest in design began.

Christian Solorzano [23:08]

Yeah. And I, and I appreciate that you, that you sort of had that curiosity to go beyond, I guess, your field of study to sort of understand the way that your interests are activated through graphic design. And I think vice versa, I think there's a huge benefit of graphic designers sort of taking into consideration much of what you're talking about. And I think unfortunately, at least From my experience, some of those bigger conversations, some of those bigger questions aren't always discussed.

I mean, I feel like they're discussed more and more today, but from my experience, it's mostly on the internet. I never had the— I remember I had, when I was in college, I had a strong belief in designing for good. And I had one professor who would always question me on what good actually meant. And he sort of, he would, he would sort of tease me with asking, but who are you to say what's good versus what's not good?

And I mean, he was doing it in good faith. And to this day, I remember that fondly, and I still continue to think about what good actually means. But for you, what would you, what sort of advice would you have, would you give to a graphic designer that perhaps is only looking at the discipline as something very narrow and like just fixed on profits? And marketing and those type of things?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [24:34]

I think so. Just going back to graphic design is like the primary way that we interact with each other in the public space, right? So a shop that has a sign in the window telling you what they're selling, right? Like through, or within the context of capitalism, graphic design is incredibly powerful because it's how we motivate behaviors. And as someone who has the tools of design and the expertise of, how to create compelling design communications, etc., you then have this power to instigate behavior change.

So what if that sign wasn't about buying something, but what if it was about encouraging someone to vote right instead, or kind of encouraging a different behavior?

And I would really ask graphic designers who have this technical training and this expertise to consider their power and really think about the role that they play in either perpetuating a system that is sustaining unsustainable actions and activities or what they might like to see instead, because they have the power to create that public dialogue and that discourse through design that doesn't always get activated when you're on a commercial project.

Christian Solorzano [25:49]

Yeah, but I feel like that power needs to get— you need to get buy-in from, let's say, stakeholders in order to actually have the power to make a change. And I think that there's just really big walls between, what a designer that wants to do good could do versus, what the person that's on the other side and is actually, at the end in control of everything. So how do you, how do you balance that?

Getting that buy-in from someone that perhaps is only— their only intention is on profit. And I know you mentioned choosing who you work for and saying, these are companies that I do not want to work for. But if you find yourself in a situation where you're working within the system, how do you start to incorporate those small changes that could lead to a better outcome at the end?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [26:50]

Difficult question to answer since I've never been in that position. But I think, as with any kind of change, it probably starts with asking questions. Right? So I tend to be a naturally very curious and inquisitive person. It has not always served me well. I tend to ask a lot of questions, a lot of questions about power dynamics and systems that have not always been welcomed by employers, institutions with hierarchical structures, etc.

But that very act of just asking the question and questioning, well, why do we do it this way? Or what, what's the outcome of if this were to succeed? So for instance, I'm imagining if someone were working on, a public marketing campaign that encouraged the consumption of a particular product, right? Just, we want people to buy more of this thing. Well, if people buy more of this thing, what's the outcome of that? And what are people gonna do with that thing once they have it?

And do we need to take more responsibility for the outcome? The way that, design as an industry is structured is there's usually kind of a client-vendor relationship where designers do not have the opportunity to control the outcome. They're hired onto a project. They are expected to produce a creative output as a deliverable. And then their role really stops.

But I think that I would like to see a future where there's more room for questioning and creatives bringing kind of that spirit of inquiry to their work to say, well, if we, if we do this and it succeeds, what happens then? And are we responsible for that, etc? Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [28:28]

And I've been, I've been doing some research on, because by nature I tend to be a very slow person. I like to move very slow, and I like to take my time. And one of my biggest frustrations about working in the industry sometimes is that sometimes things just move way too fast, and they don't allow for that moment of reflection and curiosity and questioning.

So what are your thoughts, or what I guess what sort of systemic issues do you see working against what we're talking about here? For me, it's, I just think we move way too fast and that's, and that's every project that I've ever been on where I haven't been happy with a deliverable is always because there's a very hard, statement of work that said you have 10 weeks to do this and that's that. And everything is, line by line.

This is what you're doing on this day, etc. So is there anything else that comes to mind for you? What systemically, what are some things that we could, that we could potentially change or do differently?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [29:40]

Yeah, taking time. I'll answer that in 2 parts. Number one, what is the system? I mean, taking time and the reason that we don't take it is really related to capitalism, right? I mean, there's a focus on productivity, efficiency. We need to be creating more, etc. When you read kind of future thinking of folks that were writing about, create— were writing about productivity and output from maybe like the dawn of the Industrial Revolution, the '50s, etc.

Literally, people thought that we would have so much free time we wouldn't know what to do with ourselves. And the idea of leisure just kind of like exploded in people's minds because they were like, once we reach this productivity threshold, we'll be able to just do nothing because we'll be so productive during this short period and really what's happened instead is, we're trying to cram more and more and more in. We're all trying to be more productive, right?

So really that I see as a symptom of the larger system of capitalism and how we value time and labor, right? And within the system of capitalism, time is money. We're wage laborers, and there is a value assigned to your time. As a creative person, I find that really challenging, just that conceit of, my time equals money because my best thinking is done like in the middle of the night, or like when I'm in the shower, or when I'm on a walk.

And how do I value, that thinking time? How do you value the time when you're processing information? So I think that, why does the system exist that way? Largely because of capitalism and what that economic system perpetuates. On the other side, what do I think we can do? So one thing we can do is change the way that we scope projects. So when I was first starting consulting, I was really confused, especially when I started to incorporate design and human-centered design into my consulting practice.

I was really confused about how to scope the discovery phase and how to scope a larger project, or like just, budget for a larger project when you didn't know what you would find in discovery. So for me, discovery is like the most important part of the project, because if you don't know what you're working with, if you don't know the ins and outs of the problem that you're solving for, how could you possibly develop a design solution?

For me, so much happens in discovery, and I remember chatting with a friend and colleague, Lyndon Valicenti. She's got her own incredible studio practice, Daylight, and I was asking her like, how do you scope discovery? Because what you find out in the research can completely change the course of action that you take. And so the way that I try to change kind of that assumption that like, hey, here's the scope, and this is just our plan, period, no changes.

The way that I try to manage for that is, okay, let's do a discovery phase. Let's see what we find. And typically this is the process we might follow afterwards, but we might need to completely do something else. And so really kind of changing that dialogue with clients, figuring out, what it is that we're trying to solve for, explaining that discovery part is so critical to the solution that's created.

So I think one way that we can start to take a little bit of that power back, that problem-solving power, and, the value that creatives bring is really by saying, okay, well, we need some time to understand. And then once we understand, we might go actually in a different direction than we thought initially. So, well, here's an idea of what we could do together. Let's really figure it out in depth during discovery.

Christian Solorzano [33:30]

Yeah. And I also think a part of that problem sometimes with scoping is that the designers are not in the room when the projects are getting scoped. And I've been in situations where a non-designer scopes a project without having an understanding of the creative process. And then you get this thing and it doesn't account for what you— for what your job is. So you sort of have to fit within this timeline of— it just doesn't make any sense. And it's awesome.

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [34:00]

Yeah, absolutely. I really see designers as translators, and I think that they need to be in the room of, creative conversations about a creative project from the very beginning. Because at no point is there not a consideration of design, right? Initially, a project might start, someone's— the PM might scope it or whoever's leading it. And then design is brought in like way down the line. And they're like, okay, make this, make this thing, make this website, make this poster, make this campaign.

And it's like, but your assumptions about how to make the website, poster, campaign, those are completely flawed from a design perspective. And so having someone with that creative understanding in the room for the beginning, a design advocate, someone who can translate how this needs to be attended to or considered from a design or creative perspective from the very beginning, I think is really critical.

Christian Solorzano [34:54]

Yeah, definitely. So, and you've been in Chicago for some time now. And a question that I always like to ask our guests is, as it relates to community, and we're talking about, we talked a little bit about, feelings of isolation, of loneliness, of, not feeling like you have a community. What do you think makes a community? How do you define community today?

And how has your— I mean, you seem to be pretty well connected in Chicago, and I think a lot of people recognize a lot of the work that you do, and you've been involved in various aspects of design. So what does community mean to you? How does it shape your practice? And that's part one of the question. And part 2 is, I want you to talk a little bit about your Designing For project that you did in 2021.

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [35:48]

Yeah, sure. Community, man, it's a tough question. I think it's a particularly tough question coming out of the pandemic. What does community mean? I think community for me was redefined in many ways during the pandemic. I probably would have said previously, before that experience, community is the people that you spend time with, right? That you have shared interests, that you have shared aspirations, that you find interesting conversations. The people who are looking out for you, you're looking out for them.

Community can be defined in probably all of those ways. And I definitely feel like I lost community during the pandemic. I think mentioned earlier in our conversation, I've been fringe affiliated with a lot of different communities. So, whether it's the reuse community or the design community or the built environment community, I'm kind of like fringe attached to many of these. Communities. But what is meaningful for me about community is the feeling of shared interest and shared aspiration and intent.

So these are people that when I'm with them, I feel like we're all trying to achieve some sort of same thing, right? We're all here because we care or have shared values or are motivated by something that binds us together in common.

During the pandemic, with all of the in-person opportunities for community being cut, I think everyone had the experience of feeling isolated. I mean, I can't speak for everyone. I absolutely had the experience of feeling isolated, and the communities that I was a part of, I just suddenly, with the stroke of the clock, like I think it was March 16th, 2020, it was just no longer really a part of those communities anymore. We weren't able to gather and be together in person, and that was really hard.

And so kind of coming out of that experience, I'm rediscovering community again and really thinking intentionally about, how do I want to show up in community? What can I contribute? How can I be a valuable community member? What communities do I want to be a part of? What communities might need me to be a part of them? I, volunteer. I'm on a couple different boards. I'm on the Board of Trustees of Goddard College. I'm also on the advisory board of an organization called Design Trust Chicago.

And I think about, how can I show up to be a part of those communities in a helpful way? I think about communities that I go to be benefited by, where the community is giving something to me. So I think I'm really rediscovering and rethinking that relationship to community and what that means.

And so far as how it shows up in my practice, I think that most of my work is really rooted in large-scale systems change and using design and the media as tools to achieve systems-level changes. And so you can't do that without community. It's just not possible. And a big part of my practice is really how do we work together in figuring out ways to work with others productively and creating communities of practice around whatever systems outcome we want to achieve.

And so, I think it's completely impossible to do this type of work without community and understanding, who needs to be at the table, really thinking about community as a vehicle for change and empowerment. In terms of the Designing For project, I'll just give a little bit of a synopsis. So back in 2020, I received some funding from AIGA Chicago through their community engagement grant to fund a podcast series.

And the intention, the original intention, was to talk to designers of different backgrounds whose work coincided with the public space and ask them just about their practice, really with the intention of making social design, the practice of social design, more popular. I'm really fascinated by social design, kind of that point where design and social planning or systems planning meet. And we're really thinking about design as a way to create new societies and new futures.

And I wanted to talk to other people that had those ideas and were doing that work. And literally the week where I was typing up my, outreach emails, that's when we had lockdown. And so it no longer felt appropriate to reach out to people who did work in community and ask them how they were doing their work because no one had community anymore.

And that became a real challenge. And a lot of people who were active in that practice were really trying to figure out, okay, if my work really revolves around engaging communities, facilitating workshops, etc., how do I do that in a completely remote virtual environment where we can't meet, we can't be in person? And so I kind of pivoted the project into what is now Designing For, Designing For 2020.

And the intention, kind of the pivot and intention, was to ask that same kind of tier of people who are doing work, design work with communities, how their practice had changed as a result of the pandemic. So I interviewed designers throughout Chicago about their practice and how it has changed. I think, just being completely honest and transparent, I hit a bit of a wall as I was building out the project.

I have always very big ambitions for the work that I'm doing, and the weight of the pandemic experience was really weighing on me, and I didn't have kind of the resourcing or energy to fully finish the project in the way that I had wanted.

But what exists right now are about 5 different podcast interviews with folks online, the beginnings of a graphic archive of COVID signage and the way that design documents, kind of design documentation became a mediating language for everyone when we weren't able to communicate or talk to each other in person, and also a community health survey to ask creatives and designers how their mental health was affected by the pandemic.

So initially, I wanted to kind of weave all of these elements together to kind of tell a fuller story about how the creative community in Chicago was affected by the pandemic and its work. Yeah, by the pandemic.

Christian Solorzano [42:12]

Yeah. And despite so much, I think, chaos or so much Despite the pandemic affecting people in such big ways, how do you— where do you find hope today? Or what are you optimistic about today moving forward? What was that silver lining throughout all of this stuff that happened?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [42:38]

Oh, man. I think I am a very pragmatic optimist, so I'm always optimistic. I think, we have power as a people to change the outcomes, right? And if you think about who has power on a planetary scale, it's actually a very small elite group of people, right? So there are actually way more people disenfranchised without power than there are people holding the reins on power. And if there were a way to shift that power dynamic, I think we could do some incredible things.

And so I've recently started a new position with a really incredible organization called Healthy Building Network, and we're really focusing on kind of changing that power dynamic, really changing the conversation of how do we make a more equitable built environment, and doing narrative change at a high level, and really challenging assumptions of how this industry has worked for a long time. And so I'm really optimistic about pursuing that work about kind of tapping into my own creativity again after a period of kind of feeling dormant.

I think during the pandemic, many people perhaps, or maybe just myself, I felt really like in fight or flight mode where normally I'm a deeply inquisitive person, and I really had to like put the brakes on and not think about things too deeply. Otherwise, like psychologically, I would have unraveled just completely. So I was like, okay, don't think about things like watch a show. And so I think I'm like dipping my toe back in that water of like questioning things again and exploring things.

And I'm trying to find just ways to be creative every day. And so that is also really helping because I'm inspired when I see things that are inspirational. And so trying to find those sources of inspiration again, whether it's like going to an opening or going to a gallery show or like seeing a film like Finding ways to be creative every day is really helping me and making me feel like, oh yeah, there are things that I can contribute again.

And that's creating a newfound sense of optimism.

Christian Solorzano [44:46]

Yeah, because it definitely seems like your interests are almost like it's your vocation. I don't think of you as having—

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [44:55]

I don't have hobbies. I'm just doing the work all of the time.

Christian Solorzano [45:00]

Which I think is great, but it could be a little bit debilitating at times. So how do you, outside of everything that we're talking about, what are some of your interests outside of that? What do you watch? What do you listen to? Yeah, what's the stuff about Nicolette that maybe we don't know about?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [45:23]

Oh my gosh, I'm not that exciting.

Christian Solorzano [45:26]

What's your YouTube? What does YouTube recommend you?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [45:30]

Oh, so I only use YouTube almost exclusively for music videos. So my recommendations are like really wonky. What am I interested in? I will always be a cinephile. I love film. I've been catching some like golden oldies. The Chicago Film Society has screenings on the weekends with— or at the Music Box of like films from the '40s and stuff. And I've been going to those with some friends, which has been just really fun to see things from you know another time period's perspective.

So I love, I'll always love film. I have really been prioritizing exercise and health. So those were not things that I felt I was able to pursue at really at all during the pandemic. Like I used to be really pretty active, and then I like went into a slump of not doing anything for pretty much three full years.

And so just the idea of like getting out and reestablishing that mind-body connection, like I find I'm such a more powerful thinker and doer when I have time to kind of process those thinking and doing feelings through my body. So I've really been prioritizing exercise and movement and health and eating well, and those are all really positive changes. That's not really a hobby though. But in terms of interests, I've been really geeking out on like behavioral psychology recently.

I was just taking a course on systemic design, which is really cool. I'm gonna be taking a risograph class, which I'm really excited about. So yeah, I don't, I don't know if that answers the question of like, what do you do in your spare time? But oh, bicycling. I'm really into bicycling. So planning some like bikepacking trips for the summer, and I'm gonna go on a bike ride later today. So just really enjoying like sunshine. The feeling of wind.

I— oh, I did think of one other thing. I'm really into sound meditation and getting more into that. And my partner and I have amassed a strange collection of odd musical instruments. And so like finding time and ways to play those and just appreciating spaces for sound meditation around the city, I really have appreciated that. So I guess those are some of the things I'm doing. In the time that I'm not working.

Christian Solorzano [47:54]

And I know you, you've mentioned in the past that you have a gong guy, someone that you go to for instruments. So—

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [48:01]

Yeah, he's amazing. If you're listening to this, check him out. He's Create Current Vibrations on Instagram. His name is Jay Taylor. He's an incredible musician and just offers really wonderful sound meditation opportunities across the city. So if you're into that, check him out. He's great.

Christian Solorzano [48:21]

Okay, so we're almost at time, but I want to ask you just a few more questions, and it's mostly for anyone that's listening. Our audience tends to be— we have younger people, students, or people that are entering the field of design, and then we also have professionals and educators. So what words of advice would you have for someone that perhaps is a little bit more junior in their career or just starting out? Any words of wisdom?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [48:48]

I think it depends on where someone wants to go in their career. I've never had anyone consistently give me like really solid advice over a long period of time just because I've taken an unusual path. So the best advice I've gotten was from different people at different times where I really found what I needed to hear and then maybe made a pivot or learned a new thing. Personally, I'm a— I'm someone who loves to learn.

And so if you're just starting out in your career and you're trying to kind of figure out where you fit in and what your unique value is, I think you can never go wrong by just learning as much as possible. Now, granted, I have like a way high appetite for like learning all of the time, so that might not be the best advice. But I think the more that, knowledge is something that no one can ever take away from you. You, right?

You can lose a job, you can lose an apartment, you can lose a house, you can lose a partner, but knowledge is something that no one can ever take away from you no matter what. That's yours. And so investing in yourself, investing in what, investing in what you can do has served me very well. And that's probably the advice that I would give.

Christian Solorzano [50:00]

Okay. And then what about for someone that perhaps is in a position of leadership where they do have that power to perhaps, be able to Do more things or to mentor other people, what advice do you have for them? Or what would you say to someone that's in that position?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [50:18]

I'm really interested in leadership. I'm really interested in how different styles of leadership can dramatically and drastically change outcomes for organizations, for people, for employees, for just the world. And so I think I think, when you're in a position of leadership, you have authority and power, whether you recognize that or not. And so really sitting with, now that I have this authority and power, what am I doing with it? And once you analyze, what am I doing with it? How does that affect other people?

And with an understanding of that impact that you're having, is that the impact that you want to have? I'm someone who's very values-driven. And so when I think about how I show up as a leader, it's very much, questioning, am I showing up in the way that will support my team and help us get to the outcome we collectively want to achieve? And what are the ways that, my personality might be holding me back, etc?

I mean, I think just this idea of always questioning how you can be better and how you can use your power and authority for good.

Christian Solorzano [51:30]

Yeah. Okay. I like that. So if anyone wants to get ahold of you, or if anyone wants to learn more about you, how could people get in touch?

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [51:38]

Yeah, by email, because I'm an old person. I don't do social media. I have a website. My studio is called Do it Better Design. So the website is doitbetterdesign.com. My name is Nicolette, and my email is nicolette@doitbetterdesign.com. I do a lot of, social media, social storytelling for work, and that's something that I've chose not to take into my personal life. Bad for my mental health. So yeah, just reach out, hit me up, email or LinkedIn. I'd love to connect.

Christian Solorzano [52:16]

Okay, awesome. Well, this was a great, this was a great conversation, and I just want to thank you so much. And I definitely, I'm sure in the future, like you and I are going to do some collaborations because I certainly admire a lot of what you're doing and I appreciate everything that you do for the community. I know that you were mentoring or you were offering some advice to portfolio students not too long ago and you seem to be pretty engaged.

So I look forward to continuing more and more conversations. So thank you so much.

Nicolette Stosur-Bassett [52:48]

Yeah, 100%. I look forward to future collaborations with you. I just I just want to give a shout out to the Design Club, which I think is super wonderful. We were talking about communities earlier, and I really love the community that you and others have created at the Design Club, because it's a, it's a space for critical discourse on design that was not existing for me before. And I really appreciate the conversations that we've had, as a community. Book club especially, I love.

The studio tours are incredible. So I will return that compliment and say thank you for all the work that you do. Thank you. That you're doing to perpetuate a really, a critical design community in Chicago because it's incredibly needed and valued. So thank you so much. And here's to more collaboration.

Christian Solorzano [53:35]

Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much. We'll talk soon.