Christian Solorzano [00:08]

Hi there, it's Christian Solorzano, host of Underscore, and today's episode is a very special one because if you have listened to the first episode of our podcast, I was interviewed by Patrick Smith, and Patrick is someone that I met in late 2020 on behalf of the club. And since then, he's been involved in various aspects of our community, of our club. He helps drive our programming and our mission. So today I get the opportunity to interview him.

And in today's episode, we're going to be diving deep into his early influences, the things that got him into graphic design. We also discuss a little bit about what goes on behind the scenes with the Chicago Graphic Design Club, and he also shares some stories from his experience as a designer within the last 2 decades. So truly an episode that I am very proud of. And I look forward to having you listen to it.

So as always, if you want to learn more about what we do, what the club does, find us on Instagram, Chicago Graphic Design Club, or you could also visit our website at www.chicagographicdesign.club. So Patrick, it's nice to be speaking with you. You were the first person on this podcast, but you were the interviewer back when we launched last year in 2022. So it's nice to have the tables turned. And now I get to interview you. And you get, you get a more seasoned Christian here.

So all right.

Patrick Smith [02:05]

Well, thank you very much for having me. It's great to be here. And it's, yeah, it's come full circle.

Christian Solorzano [02:09]

Yeah. So I want to start, so you and I are friends, but for the people that are listening that aren't familiar with you and what you do and who you are. Could you tell us a little bit about what you do, your background, and what led you into the world of design?

Patrick Smith [02:28]

Sure. Yeah, I'll start with what I do now, and then I can give you a quick timeline. So I'm a creative director. My background's in graphic design and art direction, and I run a very small studio called C2 Creative Studio. It's located in Chicago. And I've been running it for about 12 years now. And previous to this, how I got into design from way back in the beginning, I went to school at Illinois State. I didn't know what I wanted to do.

And I'll never forget this. I can remember like it was 5 minutes ago. I was walking in a building called CVA, and I was in the basement, and I was taking— I took like 3 art history classes, over the course of a year. So I was just walking, wandering around the building, and then all of a sudden I saw this like gallery of posters, and I didn't know what that class was because there was always things like, sculpture and jewelry and things like that.

And I was just transfixed, and it was like a bolt of lightning, and I said, this is what I have to do. And I didn't even really know what graphic design was necessarily, but it just— everything looked cool. It almost looked like it was album covers, designs, and things like that. It was something I could really like connect with. I wasn't much into sculpting wood or, things like that, or painting at the time. But that's how I got into graphic design.

And then I found my way into more of the marketing advertising side of the business when I got out of school and came up through kind of a traditional bigger agency background and teams.

So I'll be working on, campaigns for things like credit cards and Sears and direct mail and the web was becoming a thing at the time and kind of moved over to the digital side and then found my way into the healthcare world and kind of discovered the power of branding and that phase of my career. And then also bounced around a little bit after 2009, after the economic collapse and things like that.

A lot of agencies were going through a transition and so were a lot of designers and creatives. So I had a chance to kind of work with a lot within a lot of different agencies around town. It was really great. And then for a few years, I was actually in Columbus, Ohio for working for a large healthcare agency. And so I've been outside of Chicago too for a little bit here and there. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [04:54]

And even going back before you, your interest in graphic design, what were your interests growing up? What did you watch? What'd you listen to? I know you were, music was a big part of Your childhood. So what were some of those inspirations that perhaps you continue to draw from today?

Patrick Smith [05:12]

Yeah, I was thinking about this not too long ago. And as a kid, I mean, the biggest influence at the time, at least in my suburb of Chicago, was MTV. So we're talking 8, 9, 10 years old, and all we did was draw album covers or the logos of bands. And at the time, we didn't know what we were doing. We were just drawing those kinds of things.

And then skateboarding came out and BMX racing was like a— it already existed, obviously, but it was something where we were— we had the money to go buy the magazines or we could steal the magazines from our brothers or whatever it was, our friends. And so you just kind of get immersed in these like little worlds of magazines and music and things like that and the posters that come with bands and the album covers and whatnot.

And so you fast forward into high school and all of a sudden you get a camera and then that kind of becomes another level of, art, working on a craft, working on, artistic expression, things along those lines. And then, of course, with all this stuff, there's always like some drawing or something else happening, or somebody's got a video camera and you try to make movies. And I remember as a really young kid making our own radio shows.

I wish I had these tapes, just kind of recording your own thing and doing a talk show, stuff like that. So the creativity was always up a piece of what I did. But I didn't know that there was like, where I grew up, or at least in my family, a lot of people are very blue collar, policemen, teachers, nurses, engineers, things along those lines. And the creative world was just something that didn't even occur to me.

So until I got to college, that's when I started to— it all started to connect some dots there. But it was mostly a lot of MTV, skate culture. I didn't skate, but I love the culture part of it. And then as far as music goes, I just dove into, rock music and heavy metal because it was dangerous and it was loud and the energy that came with it.

And as a very young kid, I played violin for a few years and then that started to translate into guitar as I got in high school and then I was able to get a guitar and, that was it. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [07:22]

And I think there, there's something to be said about how special it was, things then because of the limitations of technology. I remember back then I had a tape recorder, and for me, the idea of being able to record voice onto this cassette tape was mind-blowing, and it felt like it was something just so special and magnificent. Same with crayons. I remember getting like a box of crayons and just thinking like, I could do anything in the world because I have all these colors.

And there's like that huge box of crayons. I think it came with like 64. And it had the sharpener in the back.

Patrick Smith [07:58]

I remember that too.

Christian Solorzano [07:59]

And it just seemed, and I, and I wonder today we have, we have all this stuff like in our smartphones and yeah. So it's always interesting to just think about and like reminisce on those times.

Patrick Smith [08:08]

Well, and when you're a kid, everything's new. So, when you got a new toy or new tool, you, yes, you had paper in front of you, but maybe you went out on the street and drew stuff. Or I probably the first thing that I've ever drew was on the bottom of my parents' coffee table as a like 1 or 2-year-old.

I'll never forget, like just laying on the carpeting and looking up at the wood underneath the, under the table and just drawing like Big Bird on it or something like that. So we got rid of that table, but I mean, that was one of the first things I remember drawing because it was there. We kept that table for a long time.

Christian Solorzano [08:44]

And do you remember the first piece of graphic design that you consciously created? What was the first thing that you, that you made?

Patrick Smith [08:53]

Oh, wow. So this was— it must have been in high school because we had a really horrible band. And there was a local record store which is long gone. But at the time, if you were a local band, they would, they would actually put your tapes on the shelf and sell them for you. And so we knew people that had done that and we thought, well, we could do that too. So what do we do?

We made the worst 4, 4-song tape you've ever heard in your life. And I made a tape jacket. So, and it was, it's still floating around somewhere. I was, somebody, one of my brother's friends posted it on Facebook not too long ago, and I, it was like a flashback. And so, yeah, but what I ever take, I took a newspaper and I think I had some Xerox pictures of some, not a nursery rhyme book, but some kind of kids book.

And then I cut it all together and then like, just taped it up and then Xeroxed that became the template. And then later on, one of my friend's bands started to— they were actually decent, started to make some music. And then when I was in college, I was able to help them, put together a CD and, stuff like that. So those are some of the earliest things that I'd worked on.

Christian Solorzano [10:05]

And do you— and I know the— a lot of the professional work that you do today, a lot of it is corporate. And how do you see yourself sort of bringing some of that attitude if you do to some of the work that you do, that perhaps some of the work that maybe is a little bit more on the safe side.

Patrick Smith [10:22]

Sure. Yeah, I, that's a great question. So not every brand is ready for, they have an edge. A lot of brand corporate brands soften down what they're trying to say or their image or whatnot. But every once in a while there is an opportunity to bring some attitude to something. So it really comes down to authenticity.

And so whether it's a punk rock poster, for the Metro or a corporate advertisement for a healthcare company, if the message really resonates or taps a nerve, it doesn't have to look super, avant-garde. It could just— that the message might be very powerful in the way it's designed can help support that idea. So, or maybe there is a really, heartfelt image that taps into something that, goes beyond just another, just another ad. So, or another brand concept or another web page.

So it's really, I think, just tapping into some authenticity, even for a huge brand. So that happens every once in a while. Every once in a while you will see a great commercial or a great print ad and it does hit a nerve. It's just, it's just so much of the stuff out there just doesn't rise to that level.

Christian Solorzano [11:36]

Yeah. Are there any brands today that come to mind that you think are doing really exciting things?

Patrick Smith [11:43]

I don't know if it's super exciting, but Liquid Death is— they're not doing anything outside of like the traditional channels, but they reinvented a category or rethought a category with the water. And I know they're doing line extensions and similar things, but what a cool name, what a cool design. They're— if they are doing anything, I think they're doing a lot of grassroots marketing. I see them, their product on tons of podcasts. They're very small with that. I have relatively small audiences too.

So they're really trying to build from the ground up. And I know I just read some headlines over the last couple years where they just, they seem to just have exploded dollar-wise. So they've really made an impact with their can of water. I mean, you know what I mean? So that's been a fun brand to kind of watch.

Christian Solorzano [12:33]

Yeah, I went to a show a few weeks ago and it was surprising how many people were drinking Liquid Death. And it's like you got your Aquafinas, or do you got, you got your Liquid Death? Yeah. Which one are you gonna pick?

Patrick Smith [12:47]

Right. And I pick the Liquid Death. All the, yes, they're, the can is cool and the brand is cool, but I, if I buy one more piece of plastic, I just hate myself. So I try to go with the recyclable aluminum anyway. So that, that's the other reason why I buy it.

Christian Solorzano [13:04]

But so as I was prepping for this interview, I discovered your blog. From 10 years ago.

Patrick Smith [13:11]

Jeez.

Christian Solorzano [13:12]

And we don't have to get into any specific blog posts, but you had this blog for quite a number of years. It, I believe it ended in 2012 and it started in 2008. Is that correct? So it was like about 4 years.

Patrick Smith [13:25]

I cannot confirm or deny. I mean, I remember doing it, but in those dates it sounds like there was a huge explosion of social media and all, yeah. And blogging and stuff. So I got into it and kind of used it as a, I don't know, I don't even remember half the posts. So I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

Christian Solorzano [13:44]

Well, at one point you were doing 3 posts per week. I believe it was a Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, I think. And some of the posts that you created were very long and some of them were a little bit shorter. And I'm bringing this up because today I think I've been seeing sort of a comeback in not necessarily blogs, but newsletters and more long-form content.

I think it's one of the ways that, at least how I see it, one of the few ways that actually makes it easier to connect with audiences, I think, because I think social media, for instance, sometimes the posts are so quick and so fast. But I think with writing, with writing for the internet, I think there's a little bit more of like intentionality behind it. So could you talk a little bit about what other ways you find yourself activating your design process?

I know you're into photography. I know you're into comedy, music, but do you see yourself sort of straying beyond the, just the graphic design craft? Like what other practices do you currently have?

Patrick Smith [15:01]

And just really quick, going back to the blog part, it's all coming back to me now. I think I was trying to do a lot of reviewing creative campaigns that were out there. I remember when Burger King did something, I wrote some kind of blog and, or some post, and somebody actually wrote me back on that. I don't know if that was an inside job, like somebody who knew me wrote me and said it was from Burger King.

But and I also did some kind of experimental, but just kind of spoof ads one time for some other companies. So I remember it's coming back to me now. So it was some graphic design exercises and whatnot. But to answer your question, what do I do to kind of activate projects? Yes, I play around photography. I've bought a house recently.

So now I have room to try to paint, and I'm not very good at it, but I enjoy doing something with my hands and getting messy and just kind of making textures. And I wouldn't even call it like— I was gonna say like a landscape. That's the wrong term, but more just kind of a— just textures and things along those lines. Other things, I try to find projects for myself.

I'm pretty busy on any given week or month, but I try to have something happening in the background and just something else creative outside of the 9 to 5, whether it's a Chicago Graphic Design project like the poster submissions, or creating a problem for myself. So sometimes I'll see something and I'll just write a problem statement and then start to design around it. Or there might just be something that I get inspired by that other designers are doing and make a project for myself.

An example of that is maybe 2 or 3 years ago, right before the pandemic hit. I remember I never really had like a logo kit or like these like badge kits that you would see pop up from our design shops. And I said, I'm just gonna make 100 of these things, and I'm just gonna take little sayings and make these little graphic kits, little graphic logos, if you will, or icons, and just have fun with it and just do things that I wouldn't normally do.

I would never put type in a circle, but we'll put type in a circle here, and then I would never, put a, I don't know, this kind of graphic treatment with this type of typeface, and I would just start to have fun with those kinds of things and using fonts that I would never normally use. So it was an excuse to just play around and create some little icons. Some are, you can throw them away and some are okay.

And it's kind of fun when you have a stack of them that are 100 deep and you're like, okay, I could check the box on this thing. And I made something fun, and it comes in handy every once in a while too, to show clients or Giving a presentation, or for social media content too. But yeah, so things like that are ways that I kind of get started with a new project.

Christian Solorzano [17:48]

Yeah. And what have been— so you've been in design for about 2 decades now, and I want to know how you've seen from your point of view graphic design evolve throughout those 2 decades and just overall, what are your thoughts on it and even more so, how do you see your approach to design? How has it changed?

Patrick Smith [18:13]

I mean, when I started, we barely had an internet. If I remember, we would, we would, we would fetch files to a printer every once in a while if we can get a good connection, and we'd have to do it overnight because it just took so long for something to go. So there was no internet. So, and so all the tools that come, that are associated with that just didn't exist.

So a lot of what we did when we're concepting ideas, whether it was an advertisement or a piece of direct mail or whatever it was, we would draw things. We were, I was still at the tail end of that marker world where we would be drawing out headlines or just filling in text with lines and things along like that with tissues and whatnot. I remember stockpiles and piles and piles of stock photography books. It was just people's offices were just loaded.

It was like a library in there and, filled with Post-it notes in every book because there was that one shot of that one, puppy and there's another shot of this great, landscape or whatever it was, whatever it was. So the tools were just so different. But the biggest thing— so, and you could still pencil and you could still reference books, and that's still happening, but everything's moved online, obviously, and the collaboration tools have just changed everything, things like Figma and whatnot.

But overall, I, when I was getting started, I thought things moved pretty fast. And at the time, and they just move like lightning speed now. So Speed has become probably the biggest, the biggest change. And depending on the organization, and this is where a lot of agencies have just kind of like, kind of the models has kind of crumbled a little bit.

It used to be that if you're gonna put together an advertisement, there would be an art director and a writer, and there'd be probably an art buyer and a production person, or maybe a couple production people, and of course account people and things like that. But now, if you're just a writer and designer, you could probably pretty much produce everything and send it to a publication. And that's the specialization.

Has gone away to a large degree where there used to be like retouching houses where you would send your ad or your photography to a retoucher after you got the film from a photographer. I mean, these things just don't happen anymore. So that's the speed at which everything moves now has just been, it's just gone lightning fast. So that's the reality of the world now.

Christian Solorzano [20:45]

And do you think the speed Has a, an overall improvement over the industry, or do you sort of wish things were perhaps a little bit slower? Because I think because things move so quickly now, there's definitely, and some, sometimes it feels like there's a quantity over quality.

And just like an oversaturation of design sometimes that could be a little bit more— that could be like at times feel a little bit overwhelming? I remember when I was younger, I used to, I used to get like an album cover poster, like a magazine. That was all I had. I remember like I was really into video games and there's PlayStation Magazine and you get like your issue of PlayStation Magazine and you'd like have to look at every single page.

And over and over again, cuz that's all you had. And then like a new one would come out and then you'd like learn everything about every single game in that magazine. And I miss that. And today it's like, you could, you could see entire collections of anything on the internet. And it's just like when you're watching something on Netflix and you're just like looking for the movie, eventually like an hour passes, you haven't picked anything. You're like, well, I'm just not gonna watch anything.

Patrick Smith [22:03]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that does that. I do that all the time. But to answer your question, whether it was a design shop or an advertising agency, a marketing company, what have you, I think what's the speed thing, and is it, is it better or worse? I think what's happened is the, what made a particular company or creative group special or unique, it gave it, gave their client a distinct look at that time. And this is only 20 years ago, 25 years ago.

It's kind of gone. It started to erode. So, and what I mean by that is back in the day, you'd, you would have the time and the tools to— we didn't have these tools, so we'd have to go out and shoot something, photograph something, and that photographer would always bring a certain look to the work. And the writing style and the design style all kind of came together to create something very unique. And I'm— that still happens today, but it just happens a lot less.

And I think a lot, a lot of the work has started to get homogenized, and we live in a world of templates and stock photography. And so having a very distinct kind of mark to the look of a work, the work is kind of fading away a little bit. An example at the time, this is like early, late '90s, early 2000s, like VSA stuff looked awesome. Like they worked with a couple photographers.

You could tell when something came out, or you're looking through an award book, you're like, that's a VSA piece, or other agencies along the same lines. You could just tell where this stuff came from. And certain cities had a certain style or look to them too. That's starting— it's still there, but it's starting to kind of fade away a little bit. So I think because of the speed, there is— and the tools, there just isn't the time to work on projects like that anymore.

It just comes down to money sometimes, and that's, it's unfortunate, but that's just kind of the world we live in now.

Christian Solorzano [23:54]

Yeah. What have been some of your best projects that you've worked on. Is there anything— have you ever had any one of those moments where you have to pinch yourself to make sure that you're not dreaming?

Patrick Smith [24:09]

Oh, I was gonna answer that with a joke, but I'll be, I'll be serious. I don't know if I've ever had to pinch myself so much, but I've gotten a chance to shoot some cool stuff. I did a campaign for a healthcare company years ago where we shot some Olympic gymnasts and just photographing them was just a trip, just because these guys were— they're literally world-class athletes, and to see what they could do, it was like they had helium in their veins. They would just fly.

It was amazing. So things like that are fun. I just saw some of my work out on television out in California. Wasn't because of the work itself. It was because of a basically a social justice thing that was happening. So around union payment and pay scales and things like that. So that was cool to see. I don't know if that was, that was kind of a pinch yourself moment because I just wasn't expecting it.

I did, the client never told me, hey, we were on TV and the work looked great. So, but it was, it was fun to see that. And similar photo shoots that, you're just kind of, we went out to the middle of, I think it was Palm Desert. And because it's got this super long road that's super straight and there's mountains in the background. And, you're out there at 5 in the morning, photographing marathon runners in the back of a Cushman golf cart kind of thing.

And I'm holding the photographer up so he doesn't fall out as we're like chasing these guys down the road. Things like that are a lot of fun. I don't know if it's pinch yourself, but it was, it's cool to actually be like, all right, we've been talking about this campaign for a year, and now we're out here in the desert, photographing it. And that kind of stuff is really fun for me. So.

Christian Solorzano [25:51]

I like that. And you've— and you also have your own studio. You founded your own studio. And a question that I always like to ask our guests, specifically when our guests are in some sort of leadership position where they're, driving certain decisions and whatnot I always like to ask, from your point of view, what do you think makes a good, a good leader when it comes to creativity and design?

And how do you sort of, the people that you work with, how do you, how do you bring the best out of someone?

Patrick Smith [26:28]

Sure. Well, I think you just said it for, it's in my mind, leadership is about helping others kind of maximize their potential. And it sounds kind of like clinical, but it's really about getting them to open doors, push themselves, explore things, and go beyond what their status quo would be. So that to me is a mark of a good leader. There's all kinds of other ways to define it. Yes, it's about, setting a vision and, rallying the troops and morale and things like that.

But I think it really is at a one-to-one level is about finding, being able to tap into what makes that person Unique and trying to bring that, bring the best of that to a project. And in terms of leading people, I mean, to get to that point, they need to trust you first. So everything— this is a little cliché, but everything does start with trust.

And it really does start with the kind of the one-on-one personal back and forth and letting them know that you're on their side. And there's a little bit of kind of the— I grew up playing sports. So, when I was younger and I was in a leadership position, the only thing I knew was to behave like a high school football coach, which probably wasn't the best way to motivate some people. Come on, guys, we can do it. Yeah, it was really bad.

But, and someone once told me that, hey, I watched the Last Dance and Michael Jordan and now I finally understand your management style. I was like, oh boy. But I, what I think that person meant was, and I at least I hope, I don't know, but I usually wouldn't ask anybody to do anything I wouldn't do myself. And I think that's something that Michael Jordan said. That's the only time you'll ever hear my name associated with Michael Jordan.

But I think, I am very hands-on and I try to Lead by example and try to show people the way sometimes when it turns in terms of what I'm trying to get them to do. But yeah, I think it all starts with trust and then letting them like being hands off sometimes and something you just have to let them surprise you. There was a designer that I hired probably, it's probably 6 or 7 years ago now.

This woman came to Chicago, I interviewed her and I said, well, we just took a kind of a flyer on her, and she had a nice book, but it wasn't anything earth-shattering. And she just surprised me constantly with just her design. I would call it innovation, but you know how she just approached projects and the solution— her solutions were just always out of the box and always super smart.

And I think it was because I didn't like push too hard, and I just kind of let her explore her thing, explore her way, and, it really, it really, it was really a nice surprise to see someone like at every project just kind of outdo themselves on a consistent basis. So that was, that was really nice.

Christian Solorzano [29:33]

And for someone that's been in Chicago for, because you've been in Chicago for the majority of your life, and one of the things that, as the Chicago Graphic Design Club that we try to do is to celebrate Chicago's design community. And to find ways to bring people together and to find ways to just enrich our practices and learn from one another.

So is there anything specific that you notice about Chicago that perhaps makes Chicago unique in the sense of how— yeah, just how we exist as, a collective of designers?

Patrick Smith [30:12]

Yeah, I think what I've noticed is that is the change. And what I mean by that is I came in, I graduated and I kind of came in late '90s. And the industry, we're talking about tools and the speed of things. And there was a lot of— the world was different. And the community, I think, was a lot more corporate sponsored.

And what I mean by that is there would be parties at the Four Seasons, and they'd be sponsored by paper companies or party at a, or an event at a nightclub or something like that sponsored by Getty, or talk, that was sponsored by a printer or whatever it was. And a lot of that is, if not all of it, it's gone, went away around 2000 or around 2001 for sure. And those things were fun.

They were nice, and there was community around them, and the events were cool. But what's happened now, what I think is really interesting is with even with some of the more established clubs around the city, everything's become a little bit more do-it-yourself and a little bit more grassroots. And there isn't the corporate sponsorship or, big money behind things.

And so people are doing it because they, they're searching for connection, where before you may have gone to this event, maybe you wanted some connection, but you really wanted the free food and some samples, some paper samples. So now I think it's a lot more genuine and authentic versus kind of just throwing a party and hoping, 500 people show up. So I think, I think it's changed a lot for the better.

And I think where we're at now is just more just genuine and authentic as a, as a, as a community overall, whether it's Chicago Graphic Design Club or another organization or an AIGA kind of thing. I think the events have become a lot more People-focused.

Christian Solorzano [32:02]

And is there anything— so you've been involved with the club for almost, yeah, about 3 years now, because I remember in 2020, that's when you and I met. You started coming to a lot of our programming programs when they were mostly all virtual. And you've been involved in like various capacities in regards to programming and events. And just participation and engagements. So are there any milestones or anything that has sort of stood out to you from the last 3 years that.

Patrick Smith [32:40]

Well, I think a couple of years ago, one of my favorite events, at least— I don't know if this is gonna answer your question directly, but when there was the typography tour in the South Loop by Jackson, who gave— pre that, I don't think we had any in-person events, but it was fun to go. And this is obviously we're coming out of COVID So there's all that kind of thing was happening.

But that moment was like, to me, was a big positive event because all of a sudden it was like, yeah, we met on Zoom. We're all doing these kind of book club or some kind of workshop kind of thing on Zoom. And suddenly it felt real. And there was also people that I don't think any of us knew showed up too. So we were like, oh wow, this is like a real thing. And it's gone beyond our little circle that we've established here.

So that was really cool. See, so that was a fun, a fun milestone, I think, at least, at least for me, and a great event, and very, just a cool, a lot of cool information in that, a lot of cool history. As far as a negative, I can't— kind of caught me off guard on that one. I can't think of anything.

Christian Solorzano [33:42]

All right, there is no negative.

Patrick Smith [33:43]

Next. There are. Yeah, everything's wonderful. Puppy dogs and ice cream, sunshine. But yeah.

Christian Solorzano [33:49]

Well, and another question that I have for you, it's related to hope. Where, when you find yourself maybe like in a, in a tough spot, where do you draw hope from? What gives you hope? And perhaps also, what are you hopeful for? Sure.

Patrick Smith [34:06]

When I get stuck, no matter what it is, whether it's hope or anything else, I just have to go do something physical, whether it's go for a walk outside for an hour or 20 minutes, whatever it is, get on a bicycle, just get away from the computer. First of all, that's usually the first thing I have to do.

So just doing something like that, and I try to— it just kind of resets my brain, I think, and gets me away from the kind of the spiral you could find yourself in sometimes when you're staring at a screen or staring at a problem or rereading an email for a 100th time trying to figure out what somebody means.

So, and I hope that problem goes away, but in the bigger sense, to me, it's really nature is really where you kind of like go to reconnect and see those things or feel those things and connect to them. Or even, live music too is another big thing that kind of rejuvenates me.

I think, whether it's like a gospel fest downtown or going back to Liquid Death, like a heavy metal show or something like that could be reenergizing and it just reminds you're not going there for hope so much, but it just reminds you, life goes on, and, some of the problems that we have are pretty minuscule in the grand scheme of things. So, we're designing, or we're trying to solve communication problems.

Yes, it's important that we do great work, and we solve these problems for clients, and all that kind of stuff. But we're not curing cancer, kind of thing. So it just puts things back into perspective. At least for me when I'm out in nature or out in a big like public event kind of thing, it just kind of regrounds me. What am I hopeful for? Peace in the Middle East, clean water, sustainable energy and education for everybody.

I guess probably it's probably a lot to ask for in our country. So.

Christian Solorzano [36:01]

And while we're on that topic, there's been, there's certainly been a, I think there's been a shift in graphic design perhaps maybe now for the last like 5 years or so. Around more like social justice or like activism. Design for good has become sort of like a buzzword and something that I think a lot of design studios and agencies are sort of wanting to adopt and are adopting.

What are your, what are your overall thoughts on that idea of designers or just the design industry as something that could be a solution or a catalyst for change. I'm a little bit indifferent about that narrative of designers as like this, these saviors that are gonna come in and, change the world. But yeah, what do you think about, what do you think about that?

Patrick Smith [36:59]

Well, what was, there used to be a meme like, I wanna be a graphic designer so I could help save the world kind of thing. I don't think, I don't think we're gonna save the world. But I think there's definitely a space, and it's a good thing for designers to bring, and creatives of all types to bring their talent to a cause and shine light on something that might not normally get a lot of attention.

And, sometimes we are more of the kind of the early adopters of things and trendsetters, and we're that kind of that creative class of that creative community. So I think if we can be made aware of something or get behind some kind of cause early on and maybe help it build some momentum, I think that's a good thing no matter what it is. But I don't know if we're gonna— if we had unlimited graphics design power across the globe, if we would solve all the problems.

Some of the problems are bigger than graphic design or marketing kind of problems. It's— but they're political problems. But at least we can get the ball rolling and get kind of the sparks mindset, if you will. So I think, I think there's definitely a space for it. But these are, these are the things that we're trying to solve are generational problems.

They're not gonna change with a poster or a t-shirt or a button, but you gotta start somewhere, and that's kind of some of the things that we, produce and put out in the world. But it's bigger than that. It's about the ideas and, hopefully some of these catch on and there is change that happens. So.

Christian Solorzano [38:31]

Yeah, because one of the things I've noticed is that usually design is at the intersection of many things, and graphic design tends to be a communication component of a lot of things in the world. And I think sometimes it's also the way things are activated, and it's how things are communicated. It influences behavior, and it just drives so much of our culture.

I always think that designers that are in those positions to be in that table where certain conversations are happening, I think right there is an opportunity for us to perhaps bring some of our expertise or some of our values or some of the things that we think, are worth talking about into those conversations.

And I know, and you, and you've experienced this being part of the club, but a lot of our conversations that we have are always about like bigger ideas and things about not just the immediate, like what can we do for the sake of doing, but it's how do we translate what we're doing to something that's perhaps a little bit more bigger within our communities.

So I don't know if you have anything to add to that, but I do think that there is some power and some authority that I think as designers that we carry.

Patrick Smith [39:58]

And absolutely. Yeah, I think, a good example of this is, and I'm not trying to like promote the club anymore, but Chicago's Tomorrow Today kind of idea. There was that the poster exhibition that we put on not too long ago. I mean, that's another example of, what's— what could Chicago look like in the future? And why isn't it? Looking that way now. And so I think it does— design can be a mirror sometimes and force people to look at themselves or ask themselves questions.

And we're kind of the curators of that. And I think a lot of creatives— this is just my take on it— are not all, but many are very cynical. And there's a big BS meter that we have. And so when we see some kind of injustice or something wrong or some inequity, we like to call it out. And it's not just the design, it's the problem and that we're trying to solve.

And we'd like to see— I think we would like to see the world a better place. I mean, God, we care about the space between letters. So if we care about that, we should— we care about other things too. So that are much bigger. So, that's my— I care a lot about a lot of things like that.

Christian Solorzano [41:13]

Yeah. So, and today, Anything contemporary that is keeping you inspired, or any designers or music or anything in the creative, in the creative field that you, you're drawing inspiration from?

Patrick Smith [41:30]

I wouldn't say any like one band or any one design shop. I mean, you just go through Instagram and it's just, it's constant inspiration. There's a lot of junk on there too, but there's a lot of good work and a lot of good work happening in the city. Same thing with music. I'll just sometimes just put on KEXP, which is out of Seattle, and just every song after song is just great. So I'll screen capture things sometimes and bands and go back to them.

But I couldn't say any one particular thing necessarily is inspiring. It's just kind of a collage of lots of different stimulus that's coming into my brain.

Christian Solorzano [42:07]

Yeah, there's definitely a lot. I feel the same way about Instagram because it's just nonstop. Really cool stuff. And it's too much for my brain sometimes.

Patrick Smith [42:20]

Yeah, definitely. So it'll get overstimulated sometimes. But yeah, I, there's nature too is another thing too. Just getting outside for a little bit and getting off the computer and just doing anything but touching a keyboard for a couple hours is inspiring too. So I, anything with, we can create with our hands is always a plus for me too. So I like looking at stuff that was, that's been made like sculpture or whatever, that's non-computer-based typically too. So.

Christian Solorzano [42:49]

Yeah. And something I've been thinking about recently is that around this time is when students graduate from college. And I keep thinking about how every year there's an entire new generation of designers that are going out into the field. And I think that's really exciting because we're sort of having a fresh perspective, new minds, new approaches to problem solving.

I wanna ask you for perhaps for the listener that's listening to our episode here, that perhaps is earlier in their career or just finishing college or maybe still in college, what sort of words of wisdom or advice would you have for someone that perhaps is a little bit more junior?

Patrick Smith [43:32]

Yeah, I think so. It's funny you bring this up. I actually was, I got to sit on, sit in on some college courses this year. A school in, oh God, right down the street anyway. And it was, it was, it was eye-opening. It was, it brought me back to being that age and being in that place. And it was inspiring to see like how advanced, how much further along students are leaving school than we were back in the Stone Age.

But advice, I think, at least to me, your first job very rarely is gonna be— is gonna keep you inspired or be super excited. Yes, it'll be your first job and it'll be— there will be excitement associated with it. But you might be designing soup cans or something, the work might not be super exciting. So keep yourself inspired, keep a notebook or do some kind of creative work outside of the 9 to 5 that keeps you interested.

And I think that'll go a long way over time. And ultimately it might lead to something else that you can't see yet. But, whatever it is, if it's drawing or if it's just type design or letter forms or whatnot, keep doing something outside of the 9 to 5.

Christian Solorzano [44:52]

So when we talk about perhaps the younger people that are coming into the industry and we're telling them to have that practice on the side that keeps them inspired and motivated, what about, for example, like the people that are hiring those young designers? What do you suggest them to perhaps do or take into consideration when welcoming younger people?

And I'm asking this because I remember when I started, when I was in college and I started and I graduated, and like one of my— the first jobs that I had right out of college, it wasn't— I felt like it wasn't particularly suited for people that were coming in with like very little experience. And at times it felt perhaps a little bit like a hostile environment where it wasn't the most, yeah, the most nurturing.

So like for me, looking back now, I'm like, all right, if I were to ever be in a position where, I have my own studio and there's younger people or like new people that are joining the firm or the company, what would I do differently? So I'll ask you that question.

Patrick Smith [46:00]

What would I suggest for the students? Or what would I suggest for like a hiring person?

Christian Solorzano [46:04]

For the hiring person, for the people that are welcoming younger folks?

Patrick Smith [46:08]

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Well, there's a couple, a couple things. One, some kids now, at least where I grew up, and at least my story, I always had a job since I was like 15. So I knew what kind of work was. And I knew how abusive it could be too when you're getting basically hazed when you're like 16 years old and there's 20-year-old, 20-year-old people working there and you're just getting, whatever it wasn't.

There were no HR groups where I was working in, an AutoZone or something like that. But changing tires. But coming out of school, the reason I bring that up is I'm just familiar with kind of maybe less welcoming workspaces. And if you've never had a job before, it can be kind of shocking to all of a sudden, have all these demands and you're just not used to it.

The reason I bring this up is I have worked with a few designers in my past that never had a job before they left school. They just didn't. And so, just to say it very directly, I think some of them just didn't know how to work. So I think as a manager or a teacher, I think sometimes you're gonna have to like just really do a lot of coaching. Now that's a very— that's a sliver of the people that are coming out.

So getting them to actually understand that like, hey, there's deadlines and this is very— this is important. Again, we're not curing cancer, but this matters relationship-wise between us internally and our clients, things like that. So I think a lot of people could just blow— they would just blow things off like it was college, and that's not acceptable. So it's— there's a lot of patience and coaching that has to happen with that subset.

I think the world's changed a lot in the last 10 or 15 years, and places are a lot more aware and try to be more welcoming than they used to be. I remember feeling the same kind of way at certain roles where just the interpersonal communication was just— it's a struggle. And so I think maybe this would— in the professional world, there's something called like the Myers-Briggs and there's a COBE test and things along those lines.

I think with a hiring manager or even a teacher, it might be worth taking a day and trying to understand how you communicate as an individual and what you need to have successful communication back and forth. I don't think that's something that a lot of people coming out of school are even exposed to. So I think that would at least make them aware a little bit of how they receive information and how they express what they need.

That might, that might, that might be something that's worth a day's exercise just to, just to make people aware of different people communicate differently. And then, and then the last thing is kind of looping back to the beginning is just making sure everybody understands that they're accountable for the things that they're asked to do is a, is a big thing. So it's just Kids coming in the workplace, like I said, there's— they have different priorities sometimes.

And I also think that they think that they're gonna work on the biggest, coolest, most, electric project that's in the shop. And the reality is, when they walk in the door, they're probably working on the lowest, simplest, not fun project that, that's around, because that's where they're at. They're entry level. And so the reality is, they're probably gonna be doing some not so exciting production work.

And I think they need to get that put in their head before they start working, because they might go on an interview and the place like might look bright and shiny, but the reality is they're gonna be doing some of the grunt work. And that's okay. That's where you start and you get, and you get experience and you learn from. So I think letting some of the students know that they're gonna be doing some not so—

Christian Solorzano [49:57]

It's basically setting expectations is what I'm talking about. Yeah.

Patrick Smith [50:02]

And just being honest and transparent and sort of exactly. Exactly.

Christian Solorzano [50:03]

Yeah, definitely. So yeah, because I always— I think about that too sometimes, and I often wonder if perhaps the generation of— like, the generation of designers today, how this generation compares to perhaps like previous generations and sort of how the expectation— expectations have shifted. And I certainly think— I don't know, in my opinion, despite all the new technology and ways of communicating that we have today.

I do think that in a lot of ways it almost makes it a little bit more difficult to— like, I just— it just goes back to just being oversaturated with so much. And I think it certainly, impacts, our attention and the way that we communicate and listen and comprehend things.

And I think depending on the environment that you're working on, I think just being in an environment that's able to like adapt to new ways of thinking, new ways of working, new ways of a lot of things is certainly very important. Even with me teaching, like I've certainly learned that there's even like certain things that I have to communicate perhaps like in a different way. Just because the ways that people have been growing up and how they've been accustomed to receiving information.

Like a lot of people will, a lot of younger people, some in some instances will look to TikTok for like education and, 30-second educational reel that's teaching them something that perhaps when we were younger it was like a whole book.

Patrick Smith [51:48]

Yeah, totally. I could— being a teacher now has got to be very— you're fighting against, social media and these 30-second clips. And some of them are great. We all do it to a point. Every time I have to figure out how to make an Excel sheet work, I go to the same YouTube video like, how do I create a sum again anyway?

But yeah, it's definitely the world has changed and to be able to explain something very simple or very complicated in a very simple way can be hard. It can be a big challenge. And I think it's kind of conditioned us to think that everything's simple. There's a simple way to fix this. There's a simple way to do this. And not everything in the world is a simple fix.

So, and not, and hopefully in a perfect world, when you're a student, you graduate and you're working on things, hopefully you're working on things that haven't been figured out yet. You're working on new opportunities and new challenges, and you're coming up with solutions that haven't been done before, maybe in this quite this way. So yeah, I think that the reliance on that is, it is a crutch, and we all do it sometimes.

But you should be, we should all be searching for some new challenges that hopefully aren't on TikTok, and then we can make our own TikTok, and then we can be a subject matter expert on it. Get 10,000 views on, how to make a drop shadow.

Christian Solorzano [53:13]

I'm sure that exists already. Well, this was a super fun conversation that I had with you today. If anyone wants to get ahold of you, if anyone wants to reach out, what's the best way for people to find you?

Patrick Smith [53:30]

It's probably Instagram. I've got 2 addresses. One is @smithdidit. That's my personal account. I follow a lot of designers and a lot of agencies on there and friends and everything else, celebrities and whatever. But there's another Instagram, which is my business one. It's @C2CreativeStudio. And that's primarily work and you can find me there as well.

Christian Solorzano [53:55]

What kind of celebrities are you following?

Patrick Smith [53:57]

Oh, it's mostly comedians and musicians. So those 2 worlds are things that I draw inspiration from and Everybody from Mark Norman, who's a comedian, to, some local musicians and things like that, like Eighties Slang and those kinds of bands.

Christian Solorzano [54:16]

Could you tell us a joke?

Patrick Smith [54:18]

Oh, no. I wish I could. I wish I had, I wish I had one. I really don't. All right.

Christian Solorzano [54:27]

Next time.

Patrick Smith [54:28]

Next time. Sweet. I'll come prepared.

Christian Solorzano [54:29]

Well, thank you so much. It's been an honor to speak with you on this podcast and also just want to thank you for everything that you do for the club.

Patrick Smith [54:41]

Thanks for having me, Christian. This has been great.

Christian Solorzano [54:44]

Yeah, so we'll see each other soon.