Christian Solorzano [00:05]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a podcast by the Chicago Graphic Design Club dedicated to bringing you conversations with Chicago's creative leaders. On this podcast, we'll explore the craft, theory, and practice of graphic design, plus discuss bold ideas that push the boundaries of what's possible and ways in which we can create a more thoughtful and inclusive community. To learn more about us, visit our website at www.chicagographicdesign.club or find us on social media. Special thanks to the Chicago band Eighties Slang for our theme music.

Jaime Cisneros [00:44]

Thank you.

Christian Solorzano [00:56]

Hello, my name is Christian Solorzano, and I'm joined by my co-host for this episode, Jaime Cisneros.

Jaime Cisneros [01:03]

Hey guys.

Christian Solorzano [01:04]

And we're going to be speaking with our guest, Richard Zeid. Richard has been teaching design at Columbia College in Chicago for over 3 decades, where he himself graduated in 1987. He currently balances a design business teaching and a passion for pottery. So thank you, Richard, for agreeing to do this. We're very excited to talk with you. And we want to kick this off with the first question. And that question is, what are some of your earliest memories of graphic design?

Richard Zeid [01:41]

Some of my earliest memories of graphic design. I guess my earliest memories of graphic design would have to be from college. Entering college, I didn't really know what graphic design was, and I kind of entered college thinking I was going to be in advertising and being an art director. It wasn't until my junior year when I really started encountering these different skill sets and disciplines, one that was this new thing, graphic design.

So that would probably be in 1985 when I kind of first came face to face with this profession called graphic design.

Christian Solorzano [02:31]

And what were— and what were some of the things that were drawing your attention just in culture or in school? Was it posters? Was it publications? What were some of those mediums that you were, that you were consuming?

Richard Zeid [02:50]

I think it started out with like branding and logos and noticing logos and seeing this new discipline of branding kind of coming about and people kind of gravitating and identifying different things by their logos.

Jaime Cisneros [03:05]

And as a result of that, taking kind of new courses at the time of like corporate graphics and branding identity and things like that kind of and Richard, as a student, maybe taking the same path that you took in school and not knowing exactly what you wanted to do, what's some advice that you would give students as to, taking different classes and just experimenting? Yeah, I think that's a great question. And not technically, or not getting worried about what you're gonna do in the future.

Richard Zeid [03:48]

Yeah, that's why I really— I like what we've done at Columbia College. We're making a lot of more BAs available to students so they could, so they could and can explore different avenues of where they can take their profession. The BFAs kind of really lock down a curriculum for a student where they just had to take all these classes, and there wasn't a lot of room for flexibility.

So when we brought about the BFAs, we freed up— I'd like to say a lot more credit hours, but any credit hours that are freed up are advantageous for the student to kind of be able to explore industrial design and furniture making and different other interests that kind of inform design work and the professional work that students could do.

Christian Solorzano [04:42]

Yeah, because I think design is definitely multidisciplinary. And I think even for myself, when I was studying graphic design, a lot of the curriculum was very— what appears to be, it was just very static. The mediums through which I was working with were like digital and print. And I think that's a little bit limiting. So I think it's great that sort of designers are now— design students are being given the chance to explore various other methods and mediums and whatnot. So—

Richard Zeid [05:22]

Well, and even going back a little bit further, there was the real strict discipline of you're a graphic designer or you're an art director, and then those paths were slowly blurred where you can be working in both disciplines, being in the advertising world and the design world. So it wasn't just digital or print, it was designer, art director, digital and print.

Christian Solorzano [05:48]

So as someone that's been teaching for over 3 decades now, how have you— like, what's the evolution of the design curriculum, how has that evolved throughout the years? And could you pinpoint any milestones throughout that time where perhaps a new technology was introduced or something happened that sort of just disrupted how everything is done and you guys, like educators, sort of had to pivot?

Richard Zeid [06:23]

Yeah. I've been teaching a long time where there wasn't a computer on everybody's desk.

So that was obviously a huge turning point and a huge pivot in the industry and education as well. If we were training students to be the designers, art directors, the creatives of the next day, we really had to embrace the technology that changed how our industry worked. But it really only changed how we produce the work we created. It really didn't change the fundamental thinking of how we work as creative professionals and problem solvers.

Technology is really just a tool that we use to do the work we do. So I think when the computer came about and everyone was working on this new thing, the computer, little fishbowls on everybody's desk. It kind of just revolutionized how we worked and at the speed of which we worked. It changed the business of design as well.

But I don't think it changed the fundamentals of creative problem solving and being a design thinker, which wasn't known back then. And everyone talks about design thinking now. But those fundamentals still exist. And those are very non-technology driven. There's still no buttons on the computer that kind of solve problems. The tool is just kind of a device. The computer is just another tool that we use. It still comes from within us and what we know to work.

Jaime Cisneros [08:07]

Yeah, I remember you telling me last time that incoming students knew the tool but didn't have the knowledge. Can you, can you, can you hit on that one more time? As to what you meant?

Richard Zeid [08:23]

Yeah, I mean, a lot of incoming freshmen, they have the computers in high school, and many high schools also have what they call a design program or a visual communication program. But I think mostly what they're learning and being told designers do is working on the computer. And if you know technology, you know design. And as we all know, that's not true. You can be a Photoshop wizard and know all the filters and can create really cool things, but cool things aren't always solid ideas.

Sometimes they're just really cool things and window dressing. So when students come in, there's a lot of recalibrating their thinking about being a designer and what being a designer is. Not just a computer operator, it's a problem solver using technology to solve those problems or to really execute those problems.

Jaime Cisneros [09:27]

Yeah. And for me personally, that kind of hits home because with social media and the addiction to your phone, you could get lost in the thinking that you're not good enough. Because you see all these great designs out there and you just fall into this hole where you think that you're not a great designer because you can't push out these awesome compositions. But it's not always about that. It's about how you think.

And when applying to jobs, that's what a lot of people are looking for now, how you collaborate, how you think, how you problem solve. So.

Richard Zeid [10:13]

Yeah, I think a lot of technology today is unfortunately a creativity killer. Because nothing pains me more than when I give students a problem to solve and the first thing they do is they go to technology and they start Googling, looking for an answer instead of going on that creative journey of finding and discovering the answer. They just look for that immediate gratification of, I need to design a logo for X.

So I'll just simply search logos for X and find something that's done and maybe put a twist on it or something like that, rather than just grabbing a pencil and a piece of paper and starting to kind of start that creative journey of finding a solution instead of locating one.

Christian Solorzano [11:04]

But I also think, I think there's 2 sides to the social media because I do think that it could make someone feel bad about themselves for not being as good as these famous people that have a lot of followers. But I think it also makes some people believe that they're good designers because they get a lot of followers and a lot of likes. And it could be that, you just figured out like this very niche Photoshop effect that you're now known for.

And perhaps your problem-solving skills aren't that great, but you make pretty things. And as a result, younger people or people entering the industry now think of that as good design. So—

Richard Zeid [11:52]

Well, it's the artifice of social media. Yeah, because 1,000 people like your logo doesn't mean it's a good logo. Where did it come from and what problem is it solving? Most people, and all those likes are coming from who, solid creative thinkers and problem solvers that understand the creation of a brand and a logo that represents that brand? Or is it just, a lot of people that are just liking it because it's cool looking?

So there's not a lot of validity oftentimes to social media that a lot of young designers and young creatives kind of get enamored by, that they think their popularity Equals talent and skill.

Jaime Cisneros [12:39]

Yeah, that's a good point.

Christian Solorzano [12:42]

So what—

Richard Zeid [12:44]

And I'm probably sounding like a very old fuddy-duddy of, oh, social media, it's just a bunch of crap. There's a lot of value to social media, but I think there's a lot of trouble with social media as well.

Jaime Cisneros [12:56]

Yeah, I think it's easy to get lost sometimes.

Richard Zeid [12:59]

But yeah, it's very easy.

Christian Solorzano [13:00]

Yeah, and I think it's designed in a way to make you like you said, Jaime, to hook you and to make you want to just keep scrolling. But I mean, I, for example, the Chicago Graphic Design Club that I started in 2020 wouldn't have been possible without social media. So in a lot of ways, it's sort of like a double-edged sword because it has, yeah, there's pros and then there's also cons.

Richard Zeid [13:28]

Oh, for sure. It certainly has a purpose. Community— communities are really important to us creative people, and during this pandemic, without social media, we would have really all been isolated. So I think there's a value to it. But, like anything, it needs to be used in the right way, and really understand how you're using it for good.

Jaime Cisneros [13:59]

Yeah, and I also feel like it's always a good thing to always have like a backup, your own personal website. Never only depend on social media because social media, whichever platform you're using at this time, at the time, isn't going to be there forever. So I feel like a lot of times people use social media as their portfolio. And that's it.

Richard Zeid [14:24]

Right.

Christian Solorzano [14:27]

So what, so what classes do you, or like, could you provide us with some, like a sort of like broad overview of some of the, some of the things that you've taught over the years in regards to like classes, whether it's like theory or like, what are, what's that been like?

Richard Zeid [14:44]

So I've taught kind of throughout the curriculum everything pretty much after their foundation classes. So the Graphic Design 1 intro, basic skills, I've taught that. Well, I started out teaching design, so a lot of design disciplines, starting with Intro to Graphic Design, Typography, all levels of Typography, Corporate Graphics, Publication Design, Portfolio Development, and things like that. Then I started, as that industry kind of changed, I started teaching and got my master's degree in Advertising Design.

So I started teaching advertising-specific courses, Intro to Advertising Art Direction, Communications, and things like that were really separate. And then obviously, as those 2 professions and divisions grew closer together, I kind of taught those classes in that way as well, of how they combine and how they kind of interact with each other. So those are the classes I've taught Basically, as well as I teach letterpress at the college as well, their letterpress studio class.

And pretty much all classes all have a theory component to it, as well as the technical aspects of how do we produce this kind of work. But all the classes have always had the process of how do we solve problems, problem a, and what are the different methodologies to get there.

Christian Solorzano [16:27]

And do you have a, is there something in particular that you really enjoy teaching? Do you have like a sweet spot of anything specific that you just love to teach?

Richard Zeid [16:39]

The one class I would always teach?

Christian Solorzano [16:42]

Yeah. Like just anything specific about everything you teach that you really enjoy the most. You have like a favorite?

Richard Zeid [16:48]

Well I'll answer in 2 different ways.

It's really fun teaching those intro-level courses and kind of seeing all the light bulbs go on when a student that really doesn't know anything, I want to be a designer, but they really don't know what that means. And then when they start understanding what it means and pieces start to fall into place and they get all those aha moments. That's really enjoyable from the other side of the desk, watching that happen and watching students develop a creative eye and a creative vision.

So those are really fun classes. I haven't taught the GD1 class in a while, only because they've needed me elsewhere, the higher-level courses, because I'm— we don't have a lot of full-time faculty. So they usually need to need me in the higher-level courses. So that being said, I really enjoy teaching the Graphic Design 3, which is essentially corporate graphics branding class, because logos and branding is kind of— it's my heart. It's what I'd love to do.

It's what I'd love to be locked in a room and just paid to do all the time. So that's kind of where my passion lies. So I, if I only could teach one class, it would kind of be that, because it's also all-encompassing. There's a lot involved, as we know, in branding. It's not just creating a logo. It's everything around that logo and where that logo comes from and where it's hopefully going to go. So those are the classes I'd really, that are design-specific.

But I also have a passion for printing. So teaching letterpress every spring is really fun, too. Got it.

Jaime Cisneros [18:45]

I really wish that Columbia had a printing class, to be honest, because I don't think they did. I didn't even know that they had a corporate design class.

Richard Zeid [18:55]

A branding class?

Jaime Cisneros [18:57]

Did he say corporate design or branding class? I'm sorry.

Richard Zeid [19:01]

Well, at one time it was called Corporate Identity, but now it's branding. It's GD3.

Jaime Cisneros [19:08]

Yeah, but yeah, I wish they had a printing class because I feel like a lot of students coming out of college don't know how to set up a file to print.

Richard Zeid [19:16]

So yeah, the world of PDF.

Jaime Cisneros [19:21]

Yeah. But to touch back on a question that Christian asked, you just mentioned that you like to teach intro classes. How has technology evolved within the students that you have in those intro classes?

Richard Zeid [19:42]

Yeah, it's, I mean, I remember the last time I taught GD1. Yeah, it was GD1. It was a lot of that, what I talked about earlier, of dispelling the myths of, oh, well, I know, I know InDesign, I know Photoshop, I'm— I already know how to design, separating the technology from the thinking. So that's a little bit of a hiccup and kind of a different step we have to now take.

Before computers and before technology, you just kind of came in and kind of experienced and learned how to design. Using whatever tools were at your disposal. Now they come in with this skill set of technology and confuse that with being creative.

So separating the creativity from the technology is a big hurdle in those early classes, and just kind of showing them how to use that technology to solve the problems they're working on. Is not a huge part, but it's a big part of getting those young designers just to think creatively, and then we'll figure out, the solution might not be the computer, because there was like— I just— it stands out to me. There, a student at one time was trying to make type that looked like chalk.

We've all seen that.

Jaime Cisneros [21:23]

It's nothing fancy.

Richard Zeid [21:24]

So of course, step 1 was looking for a font that looks like chalk. They didn't like the fonts, so they kind of used a font and was just— we're going through filters in Photoshop and just spending a lot of time trying to simulate chalk. So I went and I got a piece of chalk, and I got a black piece of paper, and I said, draw it. And they're like, what do you mean?

Because they thought they had to use the computer to solve the problem because that's what they've been raised on. That's what they've been taught, that the computer will help you solve your problem. And they were spending just a lot of time trying to make type look like chalk. When I gave them a piece of chalk and a black piece of paper, and now they can create that type like chalk because they're using chalk. And then they can, use that, scan it in, and work from there.

But the shortcut is Use what you do, the right tool for the job. So there's a lot of that early on of because their experience of being a designer in high school has been a lot of learning software. So that's what they come in thinking it is to be a designer.

Christian Solorzano [22:40]

I've seen some like marketplace, like creative marketplaces that sell filters, Photoshop filters that Will make your design look like it was printed and scanned. And again, it's like, just print it and then scan it.

Richard Zeid [22:59]

Just print it and scan it. Exactly. It's really easy to do.

Christian Solorzano [23:05]

Because yeah, so some of these, I feel like sometimes I see some effects that are, that people are trying to recreate in Photoshop that you could do With your hands, like in a matter of seconds.

Richard Zeid [23:20]

Well, another example of that is a student was trying to kind of get some type and an image that they had to be like wavy, like it was underwater. And, again, with filters and blurs and motion blurs and all that stuff. I took their picture. I said, come with me. We went back to the office suite and I put it on the Xerox machine. And as it was copying, I moved the paper around.

And the paper came out and it looked all wavy and he's like, how did you do that? I'm like, I've learned how to use the right tool to create instead of spending hours. But again, the box that sits on their desk or that's in the palm of their hand, that's their point of reference of creating things. And when things move off of there, I mean, even today, I see it in students all the time. They're just working, looking for the right thing on the computer.

Because it's still been ingrained in them that that's the solution center.

Christian Solorzano [24:20]

So as an educator, are you still like, how often are you finding yourself still designing just for the sake of designing for yourself? Are you still actively experimenting with design? Are you still, scanning things or like, what's your relationship to the process of designing in your personal life?

Richard Zeid [24:49]

I still have my design practice working with clients and doing some work. The nice thing is, and the point I am in my career, I kind of can pick and choose the projects that I want to work on, which is a real nice luxury of doing this long enough. Also the advantage of teaching full-time, the full-time thing pays me and takes care of me. So any project that I spend my extra time on is really something I want to do.

So I'm not as concerned financially for it. I can work with more not-for-profit people or people with smaller budgets with big ideas. So I still do that. I'm probably not doing as much as I'd like. That's all right. I do it when I can. I do have loyal clients that come back to me, and new projects come up along the way, so I'm always kind of looking for new opportunities. Yeah, so that's where I kind of get that balance.

Christian Solorzano [25:57]

And could you talk to us a little bit about your pottery? Because that's something else that you do. And I want to just hear about how did you get introduced to pottery? How is it, is it, is it something that is a part of your design practice or do you see it independent or what's your relationship to pottery and just tell us a story there.

Richard Zeid [26:24]

So my relation, so I've been doing pottery probably about 14, 15 years. It's analog, and that's the best thing I can say about it. It's making things. It's getting dirty and working with my hands and just creating something without a client's approval or need. So it's always just kind of been a nice way that I've been able to kind of decompress from the computer that's always haunting you, and that's always there. Over the years, it's kind of crept into my design practice in some way.

And, most currently right now I'm on sabbatical this year, and I'm working on a project printing on clay. So it's kind of brought together my design work, my printing experience, and my ceramics all into one new thing, which I'm not quite sure what it is yet, but it's kind of been really exciting seeing how you can transfer images onto a clay body. Onto a 3-dimensional surface, and what that manipulation of the surface is.

I've been using a lot of my design that I've done in the past, kind of bringing out icons that I've developed over the years for personal projects or other projects, and learning how they can narratively tell a story on a piece of pottery. It's not quite there yet, but I'm kind of working on it. Suddenly screen printing has come back into my life because that's one of the methods of printing that you can use to create prints on clay.

Screen printing, as well as another technique, is toner lithography, which, if you understand the printing process of lithography that designers use on a daily basis, and how that can be adjusted and manipulated to work on clay. So it's been— I didn't expect it to kind of be this interesting and exciting and kind of bringing up all this stuff I really haven't used in a while. But it's been really fun, and I'm only kind of a month into it, and I've got a whole year to explore.

Christian Solorzano [29:09]

Yeah.

Jaime Cisneros [29:09]

I feel like that's really important as a designer. I feel like it's important to find another interest other than design. I feel like by doing that, you give your mind a chance to run wild, think of other stuff, and then come back to your design work and be inspired in a way that you didn't know you could.

Richard Zeid [29:38]

Yeah, it's one of the big questions I always ask students in my portfolio class when I have the chance to, is like, who are you creatively? Not as a designer, not as the title or the job you want. Because in all honesty, people who are just 24/7, 365 days a year, all about design, I find really boring when it's just design, and all they can talk about is design or some— I just find it really boring.

When you have those other outside interests that you can— that can kind of inform your design work and your professional practice, I just think you're a much more interesting person that I want to work with. And I think a lot of people when they're moving from school to the professional place, it's, who do I want to work with 5 days a week, if not more, for 40 hours a week, if not more? Who do I want to work with?

Who are the people that are interesting, that are gonna be interested in lots of other things that can help inform their work in new innovative ways? Or is it just gonna be, that student who's really into Swiss design, and anything other than Helvetica is a no-go for them? Those are the things that I find interesting. All the outside external things like illustrators, I'm always, looking at new illustrators that I'm just collecting. Oh, that's one of the interesting things I found on Instagram.

If we're gonna talk about social media, I have exposure to all these new people and new things that I've never seen before, or that I'd have to seek out. In a much more laborious way. So having access to it on my phone is kind of nice. So that's an advantage of finding interesting things to be inspired by and to look at. So I just always find those people much more interesting of what do you do when you're not designing? And how does that inform your work?

Jaime Cisneros [31:48]

Yeah, I've been hearing that more and more.

Christian Solorzano [31:51]

We had a guest once and they mentioned something that has stuck with me ever since. And it was the first time that I heard someone phrase it this way, but they were pretty much saying something along the lines of asking yourself, what's your point of view and what point of view are you bringing onto, your creative practice? And I think for me, that idea of what's your point of view and what point of view are you bringing into your work just matters so much.

And I think your point of view is, it's what makes things interesting, like you could, you could be the most skilled illustrator or designer, but without a point of view, everything almost falls flat.

Richard Zeid [32:43]

Yeah. Well, without a point of view or some kind of personality, it's, it is all flat. Yeah, it's soulless. There's no emotion there. It's not human. It has no feeling. Yeah. So having some passion and some passion outside of your work, I think just makes your work more passionate.

Jaime Cisneros [33:05]

Yeah. Yeah. And I personally feel like Sometimes you don't have to be the best designer technically, as long as you have like a great point of view and you bring those ideas to whatever you're working on. I feel like a lot of companies, a lot of studios are looking more into that rather than like how good you are with the software. I feel.

Christian Solorzano [33:35]

Oh, I was gonna say, I did an interview once for a job and the person that interviewed me was not interested in looking at my professional work. They wanted to see what work am I doing on my free time.

Richard Zeid [33:51]

Everything else.

Christian Solorzano [33:52]

Yeah. And it was, it was the first time someone had ever asked me that. And I was so excited. I'm like, are you serious? They're like, yeah, just show me like whatever it is that you're working, that you, that you work on like on the weekends. I don't care if it's like a sketch on a napkin. I want to see your— I want to see how your brain works.

So I shared with them like some writing that I do and like photography and that was— that got me— I mean, that got me closer to this position. And I think that's just so important. And unfortunately, I don't see that happening that often.

Richard Zeid [34:26]

Yeah. And for students today who are graduating, when you're fortunate enough to have an interview with someone sitting across the table from you, there's a really good chance they've seen your work.

They've checked out your website, they've Googled you, they found you on Instagram, they've found your social media, they've seen all that work. So what are you gonna do to stand out and be more interesting when you sit down across, tell them who you are, show them who you are, show them what you do when you're not doing your 9 to 5. Yeah, that's always really interesting stuff and you probably get a whole lot more insight into that person than looking at another logo they designed.

Jaime Cisneros [35:15]

Yeah, I completely agree with that. I went to an event recently and there's a speaker there and outside of his work, he just sketches all the time. He brought in maybe 10, 15, books of him just ideating all his thoughts, and they were just filled. And that— those were so interesting of how, you could literally see his, day-to-day thoughts of what he was thinking at the time. And it's just like timestamps. And I found that super intriguing, just doing something outside of work.

Richard Zeid [35:55]

Yeah, that's why all that process material and sketch material is so important. That often gets lost digitally, because students are always just saving over their work. They're not saving and they're not archiving their process. They make— you give them feedback on a logo, they go back into that file and they just start changing that file instead of doing the good old Save As. So I can always go back to that first version when I'm 6 versions down the line.

And even if I never use that first version again for this project, it might work for another project in a year or 2.

Something that you did that— and we all know that the best work always doesn't get produced. There's a lot of good work left on the cutting room floor or left in the digital wastebasket somewhere that never gets produced. So later, I always try to get students to learn how to archive your work so you can create your own visual database and you don't always have to Google pet store logos.

Because you did some studies of cats and dogs 2 years ago when you were working on creating a set of icons for something. And now you're fortunate enough to maybe be doing some kind of, veterinarian clinic. And it's like, wait, I can go back to what I did when I was doing a bunch of ideation for cats and dogs and have my own visual library that I've created that's original. It's not something I'm finding online. But students just always forget to do that.

They're just always working on the same file, and then they save that file. But the history is all gone.

Christian Solorzano [37:46]

Yeah, I'm guilty of doing that sometimes.

Richard Zeid [37:50]

We all are, trust me. I've done it before too. And but I always consciously try to remember, just, because they're always told, stop with the Untitled 6, Untitled 7. Yeah, which is true. So develop a really good naming convention, but then save the different versions that you've created. So you have your own personal visual archive.

Christian Solorzano [38:13]

Yeah. I work a lot in— so I'm in product design, so a lot of the tools that I use are cloud-based, so things just save automatically and there's only one file and it's like the file that everyone uses. So often, luckily, like there's versioning now, so you could revert back to versions, but Even that is like, which version? It's by the hour. It's like, I don't remember what hour this was.

Richard Zeid [38:43]

Right. And again, technology, it's great that it's automatically backed up, but it's a pain in the ass when it's like, when did I do that? And how much time do I have to look at all those different versions to find the one that I need? And I'm still suspicious of the cloud.

Jaime Cisneros [39:02]

Yeah. I want to know about that.

Richard Zeid [39:06]

Yeah, I'm just suspicious of the cloud. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I'm just suspicious of the cloud.

Jaime Cisneros [39:14]

I feel like we all are a little bit.

Christian Solorzano [39:19]

Yeah, definitely. So have you— so the past 2 years have been interesting, and I think I've noticed that there's been more criticism around how design is being taught, specifically around the history of design and just the ways in which design is now being held accountable for certain issues around equity and diversity and just social things like that, social causes. So, even for myself, I just recently started teaching. It's my first time teaching design ever.

So, and I'm teaching a 101 class, and I'm trying to be very— I'm trying to do my due diligence in the way that design, just in the way that I show design examples. So, for example, I think historically we always refer to like European design as sort of like the standard, we look at like Swiss design, international style is like good design.

And although like I think there's some merit in that being, good design and whatnot, I am also just challenging myself to go beyond that and to pull examples from collections that are probably not getting the attention that they deserve. So is that something that you've noticed come up in the way that you're teaching? Is that, is that something that, is that in Columbia, like there's more awareness around or just how does, how does that apply to sort of what you're currently doing?

Richard Zeid [41:14]

Yeah, obviously at Columbia we have a really strong DEI initiative and bringing a lot of those core principles into all classes.

And if not specifically in all classes, into how we teach and what we teach. And it's not always that easy to do in a lot of the classes I teach, because a lot of the classes that I teach, there's kind of there's a thing we need to learn. We need to learn how to design a publication, which is kind of global. It's a publication. It's not an Eastern thing or a Western thing or a European thing.

It's— I'm just going to show you the basic principles of a publication or the methodologies to really distill thought down into a logo, into a brand, or things like that. So I don't think a lot of those diversity issues kind of come into play to what I'm specifically teaching.

The one best example I can give you of that is when I was teaching the first type class, when we're really learning about the fundamentals of typography form, use, legibility, the anatomy of type and all that stuff, I have students design a new character. And when designing that new character, I specifically have them look outside of the Roman alphabet. Of different alphabets and how they've been created, looking at African and Asian cultures and all those different cultures that don't use Roman alphabets.

So I think that brings in a different global perspective to it specifically. But I think those issues, those— a lot of those DEI issues are best explored in a history of design class and looking at all those people outside of the European canon and what those different models are and those different design histories are. And I don't think, at least here in America, we've done a really good job of mining that information.

There's probably a lot of similar things that we all can go to when talking about non-European design. So I just think it's, I just think it's our responsibility to be just more open-minded. I know I always brought in— are you familiar with Archive Magazine? And is it even being produced anymore?

Christian Solorzano [44:20]

I'm not.

Richard Zeid [44:21]

It's online. I know it's online. But Losers Archive Magazine was always a really good global touchpoint that I always brought in, that I often brought into my classes for students to kind of look at design, advertising, and all those creative disciplines from across the globe, what everybody's doing, what agencies in India are doing and how they're communicating globally, because we're— everything we design, and if it— especially if it lives online, has a global audience.

So how do we communicate to a global audience in what we're doing? And looking at what they're doing, across the world is really interesting and kind of exposing students to all those different practices and histories. I was on a trip with AIGA a whole bunch of years ago. We went to China. It was kind of a design exchange trip. And we visited a lot of agencies and design studios. It was in 2000— When were the Beijing Olympics? 2004?

Jaime Cisneros [45:34]

'08?

Richard Zeid [45:35]

It was then.

Christian Solorzano [45:37]

It wasn't '08.

Richard Zeid [45:38]

Whatever it was, it was then. So we were, we were, we were meeting a lot of Chinese designers and agencies, and they kept asking, they all wanted to design American for the American audience. And we just kept saying, why do you want to do that? Look at the beauty. We visited the agency that designed the icons and all the, all the symbols for the, for the Beijing Olympics. We're like, look at what you've designed here. That's very clearly Chinese, your culture, your voice, your history.

Why do you want to design for Americans? But for some reason, Our American history in a lot of those agencies was still kind of viewed as the gold standard. That's what they were aspiring to do, to be like in their own different way. And it was really kind of interesting that they actually said that. I mean, they actually verbalized that, how can we be more American? And we're like, don't be.

Jaime Cisneros [46:48]

Don't be.

Richard Zeid [46:48]

We've got enough. Be you.

Christian Solorzano [46:53]

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, because as I'm— as I, as I've begun to teach, so a lot of the stuff that I'm covering is just, what is a circle? What is a square? What is a triangle? What's a line? So it's just very fundamental things. And I think, and I think those fundamental, just those foundations like transcend culture and they're just, they're in everything.

So which I think I find, a little bit of comfort in teaching because it's not like you could argue that the circle, is a negative thing or a positive thing. Like it's a circle?

Jaime Cisneros [47:36]

Right.

Richard Zeid [47:37]

So that's great. But at the same time, with shapes, because that kind of reminded me of when we're talking about the meaning behind those basic shapes, we bring to those shapes our very Western viewpoint of what a square means to us. And you can kind of start going deeper into color theory.

Brides in China wear red. If a bride in America wore red, we know what that symbolizes. So cultural differences in meanings is really important into what we're doing. And I often bring that up when in my branding class, when we're talking about creating a global brand, you have to kind of be sensitive to those, to those meanings of what things mean in cultures other than our own.

Several years ago, someone, an American agency did an ad campaign for a Japanese airline. Maybe it was a Chinese airline, and they stood chopsticks up in a bowl because it was really pretty. It was really interesting, but it was really wrong. Chopsticks standing up in a bowl are a symbol of death.

Jaime Cisneros [48:51]

Really?

Richard Zeid [48:53]

You really don't want that, especially for an airline. Yeah, but it was just, once again, it was just someone Western not doing their homework and understanding the cultural differences. And just going for aesthetics and making something that looks really cool without understanding the real problem.

Jaime Cisneros [49:09]

Yeah, that's— I feel like that's very important to do on your half when doing any type of project. I remember in advertising class, that's one of the, one of the key things that our professor like ingrained in our brain is that not everybody, not every country is the same. So you have to do your due diligence to look into what the differences are, or you might end up insulting somebody without knowing it. So.

Richard Zeid [49:38]

And, you don't even have to go outside the country. It's just cultural differences within the country, within the United States, right? How we talk and what we say up here north in the Midwest versus what's going on in Alabama and their language and how they communicate and how they talk is really important to understand. Those differences, if that's an audience for you.

Christian Solorzano [50:04]

Right. And you mentioned, you mentioned AIGA. And I want to touch on something that we like to ask our guests. And something that we're always thinking about as a, as an organization that is about community and bringing people together is we view our responsibility or one of our objectives as finding ways to fill in those gaps in the community. So we try to, provide a diversity of content, whether it's like studio tours or lectures or workshops or book discussions and whatnot. So what do you like?

What do you— are there, are there any things that, anything that comes to mind in regards to how can we how can we as an organization, or how can we as individuals or as a community improve or enhance the overall— yeah, just the overall design community here in Chicago? What are some things that come to mind that you think, professionals could benefit from, students could benefit from, organizations?

Richard Zeid [51:23]

Yeah. Well, I always encourage my students— I actually require my students in portfolio to join an organization that can support them in their careers. And for many students, they're like, well, what does that mean? What— why do I need to do that? So educating them on how important having a professional community is. Is key to that. But it's more than just being a member.

It's kind of being an active member and being involved in that organization in some way, even if it's just a matter of attending various events they have. I've been a member of AIGA since a long time ago. I've— I was also a member of the American Center for Design, which was the new STA before STA went away and ADC came about, and now STA is back. I've— I'll admit to— I've let my AIGA membership lapse because I'm not getting much out of it.

They're not doing much right now. As a group. And I'm like, until I see some kind of benefit for me, and it's— and there's just not a lot happening.

So I think just having programming is really important that can engage all levels of creative. Me, who's been out doing this for 30-plus years, Jaime, who's been a graduate for the past couple years, you're somewhere in between us. I think having those events and those opportunities for us to all get together and exchange ideas and just talk and share with each other, I think, is really important.

I think these interviews are really important as well, where people can go and kind of hear different points of view. And I got really frightened earlier today because I think you launched Tanner's conversation. I'm like, Oh shit, they talked to Tanner. I'm not Tanner. I'm not doing what Tanner's doing. But I'm like, that's okay.

Christian Solorzano [53:47]

He's not doing what you're doing. So—

Richard Zeid [53:49]

And that's what I kind of finally wrapped my head around. I'm like, Tanner's in this lane, I'm in that lane, and that's okay. I remember when Tanner did the first design show pop-up at an AIGA conference in a warehouse. And he's like, I'd really like to bring this to Chicago and do something big. I'm like, go for it. So seeing what he's created out of them is really amazing. But I think that's the opportunity that you have with the, with your group.

And hopefully AIGA comes around and starts doing things again, not even, not just locally, but even nationally. I think there's a big problem with AIGA nationally. I mean, creating those opportunities for the community to come together is really important.

Christian Solorzano [54:45]

Yeah. One of the things that I always try to really focus on is, I think sometimes there's like access to information or just Awareness is not always so easy to find. And I think that's sort of the intent behind a lot of the stuff that we're doing is we want to make things very accessible so that people don't feel like there's an excuse for not getting involved.

And I think, and I think that's, yeah, that's important. But it certainly it's no easy task because I think it requires a lot of community inputs. But yeah, it's been interesting, doing this for—

Richard Zeid [55:40]

I just think my early days of being a student member of those organizations has really— it's still a part of who I am today because I just remember going to events as a student and kind of like being able to talk to Steve Liska.

I'm like, oh wait, I can, I can talk to you here. You're Steve Liska. Why are you in the same place I am? But he was, or Joseph Essex, or, Dana Arnett, all the big names who are in Chicago. Oh, I get it. I can talk to you. You're just another person.

Which I think has served me really well because when I'm teaching and I wanna take my class on an office visit, I don't have a problem picking up the phone, finding an email, and contacting these people and saying, hey, this is who I am and this is what I'd like. I have no fear of asking people. The worst thing that happens is they say no, but the best thing that happens is they often say yes.

So I think that kind of came from those early days of me as a student kind of bumping into these people and going, oh, okay, you're just another person that I can talk to that's done some interesting things. So I think that's really important.

Christian Solorzano [57:01]

And while we're on that topic, who are some of your influences or who are like just Throughout your journey, who are some designers or agencies, or like, what are— what were some of your inspirations that come to mind, whether it was then or whether it's someone contemporary?

Richard Zeid [57:26]

So back in the day, I would, when I was a student, I was just really interested in those people that were doing interesting work and didn't always have a big name to them.

Along with Steve Liska, Dana Arnett, Joseph Essex, Bart Crosby, those are kind of like the big names in Chicago design. So I always kind of looked at what they were doing and learning from them and watching them as an example. In my early days when I thought I was gonna be an art director, the big agencies in Chicago, J. Walter Thompson, Leo Burnett, I didn't specifically know who was doing the work, but I knew the work they were doing. So I found that interesting.

And now in the position I'm at now, I don't find a lot of— my interests are very wide now. So I'm looking at like designers and motion people that are doing some really interesting stuff. I think I mentioned last time an illustrator that kind of really caught my eye. Noma Barr does a lot of stuff with— he's very graphic in his work. So I think I see that connection that I'm a designer. He works very graphically, a lot of positive-negative space.

So I think those people are really interesting. What I just saw, some environmental artists today on Instagram that popped up that I posted, and I can't remember their name, so you can look it up, Jamie, on my Instagram. It's there. But they're doing these really interesting environmental things that remind me of Andy Goldsworthy, who does these environmental structures and time-based, a lot of time-based art.

Designers, I've been doing this long enough where a lot of the designers are kind of my contemporaries and people you wouldn't know, people I went to grad school with, who are doing some really interesting work across the country. That's, a name doesn't do a whole lot for me anymore. When I was in college, meeting Steve Liska is kind of a big deal. But now Steve Liska and I, we exchange holiday cards. So he's not that big mentor anymore, person up on a pillar.

He's just another person who, if I run into, we can talk to each other. So yeah, it's kind of interesting, who do I look for nowadays? Just kind of small people. Jay Ryan still really interests me from the Bird Machine and the illustration and printing work that he's doing.

Christian Solorzano [60:26]

Yeah, nice. I like that. Great. So we're almost at time but before we wrap up if anyone wants to follow up with any sort of questions for you or anything, where could people find you, or how can people just check out your pottery or see what you're up to?

Richard Zeid [60:52]

Instagram is always good to find me. You can find me on Facebook still. Because I'm of that generation. They can certainly email me at my AOL account. Let me, they can find me. They can find my ceramic work at the Andersonville Galleria where I have a little brick-and-mortar shop where I'm set, where I sell stuff.

Christian Solorzano [61:23]

Okay, great.

Jaime Cisneros [61:24]

Yep.

Richard Zeid [61:24]

Awesome.

Christian Solorzano [61:26]

Well, thank you so much. This was great. And yeah, I'm glad I got to know you better.

Richard Zeid [61:33]

So yeah, thank you.