Christian Solorzano [00:50]

Hello, you're listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and on today's episode, I have the pleasure of speaking with Sabine Lenz, founder of Paper Specs, an organization and community that is centered around graphic design, print, and paper. And in today's conversation, Sabine shares with us her love for printing and the ways in which it can cut through all the digital clutter that we all experience today.

She will also be hosting Paper Specs Live, a conference here in Chicago on September 26th, which is going to include workshops, presentations, and so much more. And the Chicago Graphic Design Club has an exclusive discount code, and it is CGDC24. So you're welcome to grab some tickets and use that to get a special discount. And I'm just very happy to be speaking with Sabine today because As, the Chicago Graphic Design Club loves print. We love craft. We love analog. We love theory, practice.

And this conversation is full of that. So enjoy, and we'll talk soon. Good afternoon, Sabine. How's it going?

Sabine Lenz [02:07]

Great. Always good to see you, Christian.

Christian Solorzano [02:09]

I'm looking forward to our conversation today because you are the first person that we speak with on this show that is so in love and so into paper. And you have an exciting paper show that's going to be coming to Chicago in just a few weeks, actually. Well, we're almost at— September is right around the corner. So I want to learn a lot about paper. I want to hear a lot about you.

As I was preparing for this conversation here, I ran into an interview that you did where you described yourself as a recovering graphic designer. And I love it. So tell us, what do you mean by recovering graphic designer?

Sabine Lenz [02:52]

Well, I don't design as much as I used to. I had a studio in Frankfurt, Germany, and then a second one when I moved to Australia. I had a studio in Sydney as well. But now I don't do this anymore, per se. It's— my focus is really on Paper Specs, which I started out of pure frustration, as I like to say, because I was like really upset that there was not more easily accessible and clear information about paper for sure, but then also ultimately about printing.

Paper alone is great, but at some point you want to print on it. And so I had— more than 15 years ago, I basically started Paper Specs with the sole purpose of helping other designers to get the information, the inspiration, and also the resources they need to really create beautiful printed pieces that— wow.

Christian Solorzano [03:46]

Do you remember your first— the first time that you came into contact with paper and maybe a printed project that maybe left a lasting impression on you? What was that?

Sabine Lenz [03:57]

It's so long ago because I started when print was the main game in town, so to speak. But I think print has come such a long way, and we can do so much more. So lasting impression. There's so many beautiful pieces we get. Well, I get sent beautiful pieces from all around the world because I do these weekly videos as well that I share inspiring pieces. And it's just like Christmas every week here.

Christian Solorzano [04:25]

But is there one thing that you remember, maybe even from your childhood, maybe holding in your hand? What was— what was— what are some memories?

Sabine Lenz [04:33]

Yeah, I think I always had a fondness. Thanks for asking for pop-up books. Yeah, anything where it— I was always the book nerd in my family, but especially when there was something extra, that created an interactive experience. So that really stuck with me.

Christian Solorzano [04:52]

And obviously there's always this thing that I, that I constantly hear from designers that print is dead. And what's your response to that? Because I have my thoughts, but what would you say to that comment, print is dead?

Sabine Lenz [05:08]

Who said is the news of my demise? Or is Mark Twain greatly exaggerated? It's not dead, but not by a long shot. I think what we're printing has changed, and rightfully so. There are things, and I always joke, there are things that should never be printed again. I don't know if you remember the days of user manuals like for Photoshop. Those should never ever be printed again.

But I think we've come to an era where print actually can make so much more of an impact, because we're all so used to digital here and digital that, and looking at a screen, that being able to have this experience, this haptic, this tactile experience when we interact with anything print, really has a chance to leave a much more lasting impression.

Christian Solorzano [05:58]

Yeah, I agree, because I remember for me, I learned some print design stuff when I was in school. But it was rare that I ever put it into practice once I left college because most of the work that I was doing was purely digital. And I feel like I've been noticing more and more, especially amongst the younger generation, of a stronger appreciation for prints and even like a nostalgia for making digital things that are intended for the computer look like as if they were printed.

There's been a lot of Photoshop plugins that I've seen where it applies a filter to your design to make it feel like it's been printed and it's aged and worn. And I always find it kind of silly because it's trying to mimic something that, in my opinion, is quite easy to reproduce. All it takes is a printer. I feel like you don't even need a fancy printer to design something and print it.

Sabine Lenz [06:56]

Right. And it's really interesting that you mentioned this because studies have been done and they show that Gen Z and Gen a really showed this new appreciation for print. This is in so many ways new. For us, it's like a resurgence of something. But for this, for the younger designers or younger people in general, this is like, wow, this feels and looks great. And again, they grew up digital. So for them, this is relatively new and exciting.

Christian Solorzano [07:27]

Yeah. And when— and you started Paper Specs because you felt like there was not— like certain conversations were not happening in regards to prints and paper. And I really look up to people like yourself that see a need in the community and they just go do it. You don't wait for someone else to do it. You don't ask for permission. You just take action. So was there a significant, epiphany, or what was that?

Was there one instance that sort of was like, all right, this is it? Yeah, I'm starting my own thing. And what was that?

Sabine Lenz [08:05]

Well, it originally started— so while this sounds very heroic, I originally thought somebody else should do this. I remember I was sitting at a design studio, and I had spec'd a paper, a beautiful sheet, and it was a studio where we did a lot of print for pharmaceutical industries, and I spent quite a bit of time, and I'm like, this is it, this is the perfect paper for this. I was so excited.

And then a few hours later, my printer calls and says, you realize this sheet has been discontinued 6 months ago. And I remember I was like huffing and puffing. I'm like, we print a lot. If nobody tells us, how are others supposed to know?

And originally, I waited for somebody else to do this. I had this in my mind. This is how this should look. And then nobody did. And ultimately it was like, well, if I don't give it a try, I would probably be always wondering and regretting it. And here we are more than 15 years later. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [09:03]

And what was some of the first programming that you came up with through Paper Specs?

Sabine Lenz [09:07]

It originally started out purely with a newsletter. This was, 15 years ago. We all think the internet has always been what it is now, but nope. One of— we were one of the first ones to actually do webinars. I know today this seems like a no-brainer, but it was very exciting times. We did webinars. They were, we shared expert— we invited subject matter experts and shared knowledge for years. This is really the main thing besides our newsletter, how we reached out.

Then obviously social media came on the, on the scene and other technologies that make our life today so much easier. So we still do virtual events, as we call them, webinars per se, but really more events where we bring the tactile and the virtual together. But also a lot of, videos to inspire designers, that kind of thing. But yeah, I think the first big outreach was really and we did webinars, which today sounds like no big deal.

Christian Solorzano [10:14]

And do you feel like there's a misconception when it comes to print? Like maybe it's expensive, it's time-consuming, or what are, what are like some of the top things that people, that people that attend these webinars or these events, what are some of those like questions that people have? Because even for me, the Chicago Graphic Design Club, we launched a publication earlier this year and leading up to it, a question that I was always asking myself, are people going to care?

Is it going to be a waste of money? Am I going to have just a bunch of inventory like in my, in my home and just like invest in it not going anywhere? And it kept me up at night and it's something that I wanted to do for years. But finally, kind of similar to you, I was like, well, it's a risk worth trying. And I want to hear from you, what do people— what are some of those questions that people come with?

Sabine Lenz [11:03]

Is print expensive? Everything is expensive that doesn't have any kind of result, that doesn't trigger a result. I would say. So you can spend millions on a movie that then tanks because nobody goes to watch it, so to speak. And the same holds true for print. It really— there's got to be a purpose. It has to be well thought through, ideally. And then the ROI or the value that it provides is basically makes it worth its while or not.

I mean, there's a lot of large corporations that actually print a lot of their marketing materials. Digital corporate tech corporations where you would think, wait, what? They print? Yes, they print a lot because they know that it cuts through— well-designed printed pieces cut through the digital clutter.

And so this is why they, again, their focus is on, we're sending only 100 or 500 of these, but we're making it worth the advertisers, for example, while to look at this, to experience this, and then the ROI they get from it is worth it for them. It's not as easy as digital for sure. Once you have a typo and it's printed, you can't just go back in and change it.

That's— there's that. It's set in stone, so to speak. But it also has a longevity that digital doesn't have. If you create a beautiful piece, let it be a pop-up book, as I mentioned earlier, or any kind of packaging or experience, that beautiful direct mail piece, People spend more time with it. It's so easy on the digital world to just scroll through or hit delete. But just like opening a beautiful envelope, pulling out the piece, looking at it, it's definitely worth it.

As you probably have experienced with your magazine as well, there's so much that you can do with digital printing these days, and the quality is fabulous. So it really allows you to print smaller quantities just as a test run, for example, for a magazine. Yeah, use that as an example.

You could say, hey, I only want to print 100 and see how it goes, and oh, this is great, let's print another 100, or now we're going to 200, 300, 400, and you can just easily reprint because the setup cost is so much less than it used to be even 10, 15 years ago.

Christian Solorzano [13:23]

Some— sometimes people will ask me for a digital copy of the publication that we did, and I refuse to send them like a PDF. Because it's not the same.

Sabine Lenz [13:34]

It's not. No, I would say you and I are going to be best friends. No, it's not the same. It's not the same for sure.

Christian Solorzano [13:41]

Yeah. So do you have any— so when it comes to Paper Specs and like just building this print community throughout the last 15 years, what— how have you seen the print industry evolve throughout that time? And do you feel like we're like in what direction are we heading? Or do you feel optimism or hope? Or do you have any fears around maybe like just what keeps you up at night?

Sabine Lenz [14:07]

What keeps me up at night is how I can best help designers understand what is possible. And definitely the technology has changed a lot. I mean, 15 years ago, digital printing— was it 15 years ago? Roundabout that ballpark. Digital printing just came on the scene, and the quality like everything that's new, the quality was not what it is now. Like today you can print digital publications, for example, or anything digital, and you would not be able to tell the difference from offset printing.

Which is great for us because it allows us to do shorter print runs to— I don't know how familiar you are with offset printing, but that was for a long time the game in town. It was the only way to print something. And, or the main way to print something, and basically just to set up the press, to keep the press going. You already used 500, 600 sheets of paper that were never, used for anything but test runs and then being tossed aside.

So it was kind of more wasteful environment. Now with digital, you're basically— the first sheet that comes off the press is— that's what you get. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [15:20]

What I found unique about your organization is that it's not just about the paper, it's also about the printing. And I've been to, and I've been to other paper shows in the past where it's, the paper is mostly the hero of the show. And it's very easy to leave the show with all these paper samples and think that anything that you print on that paper is going to look perfect. And it's a, it's a myth, I feel like. Yeah.

Sabine Lenz [15:47]

Oh, it's totally a myth. Don't get me wrong, we all love paper. I always say it's like peanut butter and jelly. At some point in time you have the paper and it's pretty, but now what? Because you want to print on it. And so what I'm personally very proud of is the lineup that we have for our event that's coming to Chicago in end of September. Yes, we have paper mills, of course, but we also have, I think, an unprecedented lineup of technology there.

So you can really see what is possible today. There will be digital printers that, they print silver and gold, others that print neon colors, large format raised opportunities, digital embellishments like foil. You can digitally apply foil. So also for short print runs, but also in variable data printing. So if you want to do something special for a board of directors, something you can basically personalize a notebook in gold with each person's name, and it's no big deal because it's all done digitally.

So there's— and we bring all of this together. So I really feel it's an unprecedented— we're the only ones. I think we all have been to design events or paper shows. Paper shows are great, but they only talk about paper. If you go to design conference, most of them talk about digital possibilities, web, video, you name it. And very few talk about, if at all, talk about paper and print.

That's why I started this, why we started this event, because we feel there's really a need for designers to take a moment and say, okay, I have this one day, tell me everything you can about paper and print. And so we're bringing the best of both worlds together, so to speak.

Christian Solorzano [17:38]

And for Paper Specs Live, which is happening in September. Why Chicago? What's your relationship to Chicago? I know that you love Chicago only 2 months out of the year, and September is one of them.

Sabine Lenz [17:50]

Yes. No, don't get me wrong. I love Chicago as a city, as a designer. There's just an incredible design community there. Also, so much— I love all the museums you have there. I've done the architecture boat tour probably 3 times already. I think this is a city that oozes design, so to speak. But I also know it's an incredible design community and people who appreciate paper and print and want to service both sides, because, as I said, paper alone isn't doing it.

You need the printing part as well.

Christian Solorzano [18:31]

So for Paper Specs Live. What is it? I mean, people can look it up online, but I'm very excited about the speakers that you'll be having. Some are close friends of the Chicago Graphic Design Club. For someone that maybe is new to printing or that maybe is a little bit insecure about getting into the world of printing, what should someone— what should someone expect?

Sabine Lenz [18:57]

This really is a full day that is jam-packed with inspiration, with trends, with insights, and Yes, ample paper and print samples for sure. That's probably— we always laugh about this because we have people in previous events, they walk out with like 4 bags full of samples. I'm like, how are you getting this home? And then they're like, I'm gonna take an Uber.

But really, it's— we're starting the day off with the, how-to workshops, really just giving people the chance to get to know some of the technologies, but also binding techniques more intimately. These are smaller settings, so everybody can ask questions. It's more intimate. Then later on in the day we have, yes, our fabulous guest speakers. I'm very excited. It's— we have Scout Driscoll, Alyssa Lau, Elaine Paloutsis from VSA Partners, and then Tana Woodford from the Design Museum of Chicago.

So we have a great mix of, I think, very inspiring speakers and speakers that in their own right all have broken some rules to really expand and think outside the envelope, which I think—

Christian Solorzano [20:11]

And are there any print designers today that you feel like are really doing really cool work? Or maybe even industries, or just what about print today is happening that really excites you? You've talked a little bit about some of the technology, but are there any examples that come to mind?

Sabine Lenz [20:29]

I think especially in when it comes to the beverage and spirit industry, because there's— the shelves are full if you go anywhere. So they really are mindful and purposeful on trying to stand out on the shelf. The same goes for every packaging that is out there, because let it be on the shelf or also online, whatever you design has to stand out and be appealing to the consumer. There are a number of fabulous print designers out there for sure. I don't wanna, cherry-pick.

It's like saying, who's your favorite child? But yeah, there are some amazing designers out there that really take what is possible, what you think is possible, and they push the envelope. And I know that we have some of them as guest speakers. But I know that our attendees will be going home blown away and wow, I feel very inspired. And this is really my goal. I've seen this in past events when designers' eyes light up and they're like, wait, I can do what?

These are new possibilities. That makes me get out of bed in the morning, so to speak, when I inspire people.

Christian Solorzano [21:37]

And I feel like it's such a strong protest against things like artificial intelligence. I'm excited about this conversation that we're having here because I also have a lot of conversations with other people, and for them it's all about AI. It's all about more digital, more this, more that. So I just feel so hopeful knowing that there's people like yourself that are putting together these big events solely focused on the craft of holding something in your hand.

So what are your thoughts around— I mean, we don't need to go super deep if you don't want to, but just what are your thoughts on AI and— Is there any overlap between AI and print?

Sabine Lenz [22:20]

I think, how do I say, I love it that you say it's a craft because it is. I think when somebody holds something, a beautiful printed piece in their hands, it's a craft. They might not be able to say, oh my God, I love this embossing and foil stamping and whatever, but they know it's something special. AI is not gonna go away. We know this. I like to think of AI as a helper, because AI by its little lonesome is not creative whatsoever.

We have to feed it information, and even then somebody has to stand there and say, you're making no sense whatsoever. You have to— a good friend of mine always says, trust but verify. I don't know, it might be hallucinating here. And I think this is where personally I feel this is where print shines, because it's so easy to fake something with digital. Let's fake, if you want to call it that.

But if you put the work into printing, and people always had the feeling that if somebody takes the effort and prints it, it's more correct, it's more thought through. So it holds more value and is more trustworthy than if it's just digital.

Christian Solorzano [23:34]

Yeah, I agree. I always think of prints like producing something printed for an audience or for a consumer. As being respectful because I feel like to put in the time and effort into making something that is in the physical world, I feel like there's a sense of like respect for that person that you're gifting someone something to. Similar, yeah, similar to like a thank you card or like a greeting card or like a gift.

Sabine Lenz [24:02]

I like the trustworthy and the respect part. I think this is it. And people Respond in kind. I mean, you can send an email to someone and say, hey, can you donate to my organization? And they're like, oh my God, another one of these 500. And I'm not sure, is it spam? Is it real? You really provide a beautifully crafted, thoughtful invitation to help the organization, and I call it an invitation on purpose. It's a different experience.

Christian Solorzano [24:28]

I want to learn a little bit about some of the work that you were doing with your studio that you had. Which I believe was called Bee Studio.

Sabine Lenz [24:39]

You went way back when. Oh boy, you did your homework. I think the very first studio was called Public Design because it was a German studio, and we thought having an English name would be such a cool thing. And then, yeah, my studio in Australia was called Bee Design because, my nickname is Bina. So Bee. And then design that, was—

But I think all along the way, it was whatever I did, it was with the purpose of being thoughtful, mindful, and creating something beautiful. And something meaningful with that spoke to the recipient.

Christian Solorzano [25:19]

And do you, do you miss graphic designing? Do you find yourself still opening up the software and Moving things around, or—

Sabine Lenz [25:27]

Yeah, that's why I call myself a recovering graphic designer. Yeah, probably my designer's worst nightmare, because I'm like, well, let's just turn a little here and push this up a little there.

And, but I also think this is like, we all progress in our life, and this is my next stage, and I'm excited about what I do and if you would have told me when I was in my teens that I would enjoy crawling around a print show and looking under the— around the equipment and kicking some tires there, I would have said, really? No, not my thing at all. And yet here I am. I enjoy it, and I ask the uncomfortable questions.

I'm like, okay, I don't care how long your machine is and how wide it is. And yeah, I actually want to know what can I do with it? What comes out at the end? And then convey this in easy-to-understand terms to— in our design language. I speak design.

Christian Solorzano [26:29]

One of the, one of the things that I like to ask our guests is because our audience for this show, we have a lot of students, we have a mix of working professionals, and then we have also people that have been in the industry sometimes for 30-plus decades.

And I want to hear from you, like when you look at the landscape of design today, Are there any, what are some things that, what would be your call to action for, let's say, someone that's just getting into graphic design? What do you feel like are some skills that you feel like are most needed or can help someone, excel throughout their career? Because I feel like things are constantly changing.

Even if I asked you this like 4 years ago, I'm sure your response would be totally different. But what would be your response to that question now?

Sabine Lenz [27:17]

Graphic design as it relates to print, or graphic design overall?

Christian Solorzano [27:20]

Just overall. And maybe there's lessons from print that someone could bring into maybe other facets of their career.

Sabine Lenz [27:27]

I think there's the technology and everything around graphic design will always change. I think that our— if you were looking for an industry where you learn something and then you can lean back for the rest of your working life, this is not it. You're in the wrong industry. Things change all the time. Let it be Even web digital, that for sure, but also in the printing realm.

I fully am aware that most designers spend probably 70, 80% of their time on the digital realm and only have little time for print. So this is why we're bringing this all together in one day, because there is so much new and so much happening. I actually just spoke to a Design community in DC. It was a beautiful conference, and we had a what we called a paper and print party, and it was just the excitement and just seeing what is possible.

And they were like, I had no idea you can do this. So it, every part of our industry, let it be the digital part, the print part, it's constantly evolving. And so the best you can do is maybe, prioritize yourself for a day and say, hey, I'm going there because I'm gonna immerse myself in this. Because you have to stay on top of things, otherwise you're gonna be left behind.

Christian Solorzano [28:44]

And is there any speculation, or what are your thoughts around the direction in which the design industry is going, let's say, in the next 5 years? Do you have any insight as to what we can expect?

Sabine Lenz [29:01]

You mean, do I have a magic ball, a magic 8-ball? No, I don't. If I would, I— whoa, that would be a good world here. I think really quality is coming back. Quality has always been giving us a chance to survive, if you will. And large corporations, more than ever, probably quality is appreciated in all aspects of design.

Christian Solorzano [29:24]

And what do you think is like one thing? Because I feel like it's becoming harder and harder to maybe differentiate yourself from the rest because, I mean, I feel like social media or just the internet has just been a huge driver of oversaturation in content. And sometimes it's a little bit difficult to discern quality from not quality. So how do you go about, how do you go about distinguishing what is quality versus what is not quality?

Do you feel like it's up to— do you think it's like a subjective or objective assessment there? How do you, how do you go about assessing?

Sabine Lenz [30:04]

On one hand side, what I think is quality is probably slightly different than what you think.

But on some level, though, we both will be able to agree, and we're saying this might not be exactly how I would have done it, but I can see the quality and the thoughtfulness behind it. And I think this is really part of what can set us apart. This is just like AI rummaging something and spitting it out. But somebody has really thought this through and made a point to allow ourselves to be different.

Whatever you— we're creating in any kind of design, especially when it comes from client work, usually the branding falls in one of 3 kinds, and that's digital as well as print, in 3 big buckets, if you will. And one of them is storytelling, or focusing on the story. One of them is really focusing on higher quality and smaller quantities, and really the quality will show. And then differentiation, of course. So AI can't spit that out, you know what I'm saying?

Somebody has to be there we are needed. Our creativity, our thoughtfulness is needed to make those decisions, and that if that's digital, if that's print, I think in every aspect of design this we shine because we can understand the client. AI doesn't care. They— well, I know Christian. Christian wouldn't like this. I don't know that, but I know— wait, I know exactly Christian wouldn't go for this one, or whatever the client name is, whatever.

Christian Solorzano [31:38]

It's been really exciting to have people ask for business cards lately. People have been coming to me at our events asking for a business card, which I'm ashamed to say that I do not have one, but I am going to get one. But I remember a long time ago, like maybe 10 years ago, just carrying business cards all the time and having— and it was almost like an unspoken competition of who had the coolest business card. And I hope that makes a comeback.

I was talking with a friend the other day. I went over to his house. And he was sharing with me the portfolios, the print portfolios that he would send clients in the early '90s before websites, before digital portfolios. And it was like this big fat book that was just full of all these work samples. And you had to cut all the pages, glue them, ship them. It was a whole production.

Even that would be cool to make it, to make like a physical portfolio make a comeback. When I finished school, it was like, I feel like it was the tail end of those portfolios being common because in one of my classes, a prerequisite to graduating was to have a physical portfolio. No one ever asked for it. Once I graduated, I would carry it with me and no one ever asked to see it.

It was all digital, but it would be cool if those came back, like a printed portfolio.

Sabine Lenz [33:00]

Quick story. I know I was at Adobe Max conference years ago, and I was standing in line there. I knew everybody was doing digital work and whatever. And so, we were standing in line for coffee, and you have these conversations as you do, and everybody was sharing what they're doing. It was all like UX this and, UI that. And so they look at me like, so what do you do? I'm like, well, paper and print.

And it was getting really quiet, and I said, oh, are we still doing that? I'm like, yeah. So there's a happy end coming. Wait for it. So I pull up one of my business cards, and mine are extra thick and square, and everybody wanted a business card, and they're all rubbing the card. And, I'm like, gotcha. Yeah. Now, so I'm glad to hear that they're coming back. You're saying that because I think that it is part of your personality. It's a calling card.

It's somebody remembers you. And I said, oh yeah, oh my God, there was a guy with a really crazy— remember his business card was like blah. They remember you by that card. You leave an impression. And talking about portfolios, yeah, I get it. Digital is convenient. 2 things there. So one of them is, if you really are looking for a job and you want to stand out, try sending something physical.

You probably stand out among the thousands of others who just pushed a button and submitted their resume. The other thing is, I had a large corporation, one of the large ones. I'm based in Silicon Valley area, actually reached out to me and said, okay, so we're looking for print designers. So, and that was someone where I'm like, I'm sorry, you're a big tech company, right? And they're like, Yes, still. So it's coming back.

This is niche where I feel if you know what you're doing and, start catch up. If you have been working on print, start catching up now and be, have a competitive edge that way. Or if you're new to this, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to start today and ease yourself in and learn the ropes. And really then have a cutting edge above somebody else who doesn't know how to code it from an uncoded sheet, so to speak.

But I love the business cards are coming back. I'm all for it.

Christian Solorzano [35:32]

What do you think about print on demand? What are your thoughts on, let's say, using a service like Blurb, for example, to print, let's say, a photo book?

Sabine Lenz [35:41]

They have their place for sure. Don't get me wrong. But think about this. You have millions of photos on your phone. But the one things I look at, and I have, I spent 2 weeks with my best friend in New York last year. She came from Europe. I came from San Francisco. So we kind of met somewhat in the middle. I don't look at the pictures on my phone, but I have the photo book laying on my coffee table.

They have their— definitely have their place, and that would nobody— we would never have printed this in a 100-print run. You know what I'm saying? This was a very one personal item. So I think it's a great opportunity, and it just shows you again that, if you have something physical, people will look at it more likely, because on the phone you have like, wait, there's a million photos and it's somewhere here.

Christian Solorzano [36:29]

Yeah, because I'm trying to think of like, for the listener, what would be some quick and easy entry points into prints? I think a business card, just make one for yourself. We all take photos on our phone, maybe make like a 2024 in-review photo book of like all your highlights of the year. But what would be some other maybe like beginner-focused print projects for someone? I think a portfolio is probably could be something doable, but any thoughts there?

Like if someone wants to get into print, but they don't know what to do first or how to start? Yeah, I think business cards are definitely a good start.

Sabine Lenz [37:15]

Some good online services, and there are some not so good ones. But that's probably an easy in to get your feet wet and just figure things out. It still helps to know because they offer you different papers and different print techniques. So it definitely helps to know the difference. This is where, you can come to sites like ours, or just good luck with the Google search, the black hole of Google, as many call it. But know the basics, and that's definitely a good starting point.

And you will also see that you will be more inclined to hand the business card out and see the reaction as you did, and as I do when I still to this day, when I had my hand out my business card, they're like, oh, this is really thick, and this is, look, it's square. It's a conversation starter. That I always say. If you're looking for something that is a conversation starter, don't estimate— underestimate, I'm sorry— variable data for one.

But there's several services that offer this online where you can basically choose. Let's say you have a business card, and on the front is your regular information, your name, contact information, and then on the back you can have different imagery. Let's say the photos that you took, for example, that you mentioned earlier. It's always a great conversation starter. I like to do this. I'm like, turn it upside down, pick a card, any card. And then people like, oh my God, wait, I like the green.

No, maybe I take the red one. So you can— it's more engaging.

Christian Solorzano [38:45]

Yeah, it's like interactive. And I also feel like there's a novelty aspect of it, of like maybe wanting to collect them all, or maybe wanting to, who knows, like show them off to people. There's a few there's a— sometimes I find print to be so beautiful that I almost like, I have a lot of posters and sometimes I feel even nervous to hang them up because I'm just they're so precious and rare, but I got to get over that fear.

But even just the— but even just like the aspect of like showing things off and like having it be something that is like a coffee book table where People come over, hey, check this out.

Sabine Lenz [39:27]

Talking about posters, I spoke to a print friend of mine in Canada, and he says, for whatever reason, over the last 3 years, posters, limited edition posters for rock concerts have been skyrocketing for them. They'll buy them as mementos. So, and they create beautiful posters, they embellish them, let there be foil or UV ink, like raised ink, that kind of thing. So they're not your average run-of-the-mill poster, but they're basically limited editions and people use them as and buy them as mementos.

Christian Solorzano [40:00]

And how do you see, let's say for example, the United States compare to other parts of the world in regards to prints? Where do we sit?

Sabine Lenz [40:08]

Let's put it this way. Other parts of the world, especially Europe, have a much higher appreciation for print. Craft that it is. There's more variety. I think we often feel that we have to look like everybody else, and I call it like vanilla. No, we don't want all vanilla. Let's add some different flavors. Let's make it more interesting, especially places like Europe. They're experimenting. They're making so many fun things and technologies, the papers they use is very inspiring.

So that would be— we're a little behind there. We usually lag a year or 2 behind. So give us a moment, we will catch up.

Christian Solorzano [40:56]

But then they'll be even further ahead.

Sabine Lenz [40:59]

Hey, I tried to be optimistic here. You ruined it.

Christian Solorzano [41:02]

And why do you feel like we are maybe more vanilla or playing it more on the safe side? Do you think it's something like, what is it? What would you say your explanation would be?

Sabine Lenz [41:13]

It's a matter of educating your clients as well. Some of the most well-known designers and the most successful designers that I know in the US actually originally from somewhere else. And so they come with a different aesthetic, but also with the mindset, let's push that envelope. Let's just see. And if the client says, well, I want it to look like this. It's a circle.

And they're like, okay, we can make it a circle, but how about— and then they push the envelope and they bring the client with them as further and further. It's an education process, of course, but as, the further they push the envelope, the clients are like, wow. They get a new reaction from their clients, which then trust— they trust the print— I'm sorry, the designer more, and they go further and further and further.

The success, as I mentioned earlier, is what justifies the ROI on print for them, for sure. And in a lot of ways, trying to play it safe is the wrong way to go. It's really, yes, we can do this, but how about we can also do this and nudge your clients along to try something new?

Christian Solorzano [42:25]

And is that something that people will be expecting to maybe learn a little bit more about during Paper Specs Live. Okay.

Sabine Lenz [42:31]

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. I'm very excited because we have 2 workshops, and there is digital, hot foil stamping, probably. But there's also digital technologies now that allow you to do— to add foil to your printed piece for especially short print runs. And it's much more affordable because you don't need a die, you don't need a longer print run. So you can do like 10, 50, 100. And we will have a workshop on each one.

There's 2 very distinct technologies at play, and we will have a workshop on one for each of those technologies, among other workshops. And I know that designers who will partake will be excited about the possibilities there, because it's like, wait, I don't have to print 500 or 1,000. I can do this with 10, 15, 20, or even 100. There are so many great possibilities there.

Christian Solorzano [43:24]

I like that. And I'm, and I'm looking forward to attending. And just for the listener, it's September 26th here in Chicago. And I know that there's going to be, there's going to be the conference. Is there going to be other events surrounding the conference?

Sabine Lenz [43:40]

I think the highlight is going to be the paper and print sample event in the evening. We have around about 20 exhibitors that really come with a lot of print samples, and we provide bags. We always say, bring an extra suitcase. And I know last year we were in New York, and we had somebody say, yeah, I think I have, I have a lot of samples. I'm kind of good.

And after the event she sent me an email, and she said, oh no, texted, email, I don't remember. But she basically said, for one, I'm so glad I brought my car, because I'm not sure I would have got this all home. Okay, but because there's really so much, and I know people, designers will be inspired because they all of a sudden there's these technologies that allow us to wait, I can do this, and it's really, it's simple, these technologies, for example, make it rather simple.

Christian Solorzano [44:34]

And outside of the, of the conference, you're, you'll be in Chicago. I'm curious about when you do come to Chicago, what do you like to do? How do you spend your free time? Because I'm assuming a lot of this stuff, I mean, you must feel so relieved once all this stuff is over, and you're just—

Sabine Lenz [44:52]

Have you looked at my itinerary? I actually added Friday and Saturday. So the event is on a Thursday, and Friday and Saturday are my playtime. I love to go to some of the museums. There's always something great on show. The Art Institute is one of my favorites for sure, but there are so many other great Art and other exhibits there. There's always something new where I'm like, wow, Chicago, fabulous.

So I'm definitely gonna have some downtime where we'll explore and enjoy Chicago for the beautiful design city that it is.

Christian Solorzano [45:28]

Yeah, and this isn't the first time that the conference has taken place in Chicago. It's been, it's been in Chicago in the past. And how is this one maybe gonna differ from some of the previous ones?

Sabine Lenz [45:41]

Great question. So in the past we were more like an afternoon event. But over the years, as I said earlier, the regular design conferences, nobody talks about paper and print anymore. So that has diminished more and more and more, and there's even less mill paper mills at these shows. So we basically are going a full day. And I say, hey, I know it's a full day. I know it's a lot of time.

You think it's a lot of time, but I also think you deserve it, and it's a great way to immerse yourself, to treat yourself, and be fully inspired by what can be done. So it's more learning for sure. We always had a guest speaker before, but we have these workshops now. We have more exhibitors than we had before, so there will be more samples, which I know is a dangerous thing.

But I also know that our attendees love samples, and they will, they will, be inspired with these, by these examples for years to come.

Christian Solorzano [46:43]

We're almost at time, but I do want to, I do want to hear a little bit more about, are there any other, aside from Paper Specs, are you working on any other projects or anything else that maybe hasn't been announced that we can look forward to? Because you guys, you guys also, aside from the conference, you have regular, monthly— I don't know, I don't know if they're monthly, but there's always like recurring events that you guys are putting together.

Sabine Lenz [47:12]

Yeah, we do what we call an unboxed event, and this started during COVID and I always joke that's probably the best thing that came out of COVID when everybody was doing just webinars and this will not do for our peeps. We want to touch the paper. We want to hold it up to the light and see what the printing looks like. So we do a few times a year what we call an unboxed event where we pre-ship a box with materials and then get together.

We have a guest speaker and our— then unbox this together, look at all the samples, and you have a chance to talk to the manufacturers or mill providers who did this. And we have a guest speaker. So our next Unboxed event is going to be in December. It's our infamous holiday edition, as we call it. Jessica Hische is going to be our guest speaker, and I'm very excited because the box is going to be brimming full with fabulous examples.

And so that gives a chance to— for those who cannot make it in September, totally different experience, less samples, of course. But also we're doing this so that everybody has a chance to get their hands on these samples no matter where they are in the US.

Christian Solorzano [48:24]

Okay, I like that. Excellent. Well, I will put all the, just all the links and all the description for everything that we've discussed today in the, in the description for this episode. And if anyone wants to learn more or hear more about you, they can just go to paperspecs.com. And I can also add your email to the description as well if anyone wants to reach out.

Sabine Lenz [48:49]

And we have a number of freebies, so free downloads. If you want to get started, just dabble in things. We have a binding cheat sheet, as we call it, which is really more a guide. Printing already, download it. It's free because it gives you a great overview of all the different options that are available to you. But with the exception, with exact page counts, this is ideal for this or not, and approximate cost as well. So Right. There's a lot of free information available.

Christian Solorzano [49:18]

You guys have a paper glossary, and it's just like so many terms regarding paper, and a lot of them are new to me, and some of them are—

Sabine Lenz [49:28]

And we need to add to them because as technology adds on to new terms coming up. So there's— it's constantly evolving for sure.

Christian Solorzano [49:38]

And how do you, how do you stay sane throughout all this stuff? I'm very curious about this question because I think you and I have this in common. We tend to have a lot on our plates. And how do you go about just making sure that you're not spreading yourself too thin, or how— what's your self-care regimen?

Sabine Lenz [49:57]

Great question. I try to go to art exhibits here wherever I am. When I was in Chicago— in Washington, I'm sorry. I'm like, okay, I've done enough. I need to see something new now. And lucky, a friend of mine recommended some art gallery to go to, and I'm like, oh my God, this was just— I could have spent all day there. It was just— it wasn't big. It was just the atmosphere, the quality of the artwork. I can just sit there and immerse myself in this.

And, being in California, nature is also a great help, just getting out. Hiking, that kind of thing.

Christian Solorzano [50:41]

Is there anything about you that someone wouldn't be able to gather by just looking you up online? Any—

Sabine Lenz [50:47]

I'm a tea snob.

Christian Solorzano [50:51]

Okay, me too. I've been drinking tea while we've been—

Sabine Lenz [50:54]

I saw that. Yeah, I know. I always joke Lipton's is the bottom of the food chain, people. That's not going to happen?

Christian Solorzano [51:02]

Yeah, that's not tea.

Sabine Lenz [51:05]

I know, I know.

Christian Solorzano [51:06]

Thank you.

Sabine Lenz [51:07]

I knew that's why we're getting along so famously. Yeah, no, I'm a snob when it comes to tea. It's like, yeah, like when other people travel, they bring home t-shirts and other things and I bring home tea.

Christian Solorzano [51:19]

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us. I look forward to meeting you in person. We have not met in person.

Sabine Lenz [51:25]

I'm very excited to see you in Chicago end of September, Christian. We're going to have a fabulous day.

Christian Solorzano [51:29]

And for everyone that's listening, feel free to, get a ticket. And we'll hope to see you there.

Sabine Lenz [51:36]

Wonderful. Looking forward to see you all. Take care. Thanks, Christian.

Christian Solorzano [51:40]

Another great conversation. Thank you so much for sticking around till the end. And don't forget that if you want to go to Paper Specs Live, there is a discount code and it is CGDC24. So visit paperspecs.com for more information. And to learn more about the Chicago Graphic Design Club, visit www.chicagographicdesign.club. Talk to you soon.

Sabine Lenz [52:04]

Thank you.