Christian Solorzano [00:00]

Hello, you are listening to Underscore, a show by the Chicago Graphic Design Club. I am your host, Christian Solorzano, and on today's episode, I have the pleasure of speaking with Sun Segura, who for over 20 years was the Managing Director for both the Chicago-based type foundry T26 and the Chicago-based design firm Segura, along with her husband Carlos, who's also been a guest on the show.

And most recently, Sun has been dedicating a lot of time to her organization, Aha Time, which focuses on values and how values show up for ourselves, for each other, and most importantly, for society and culture. So this conversation is packed with a lot of discussions about values. And about society and ways that we can use our skills to help make the world a better place.

Additionally, in collaboration with her organization, we do have an open call for submissions where we're asking designers and creatives to send us a 24 by 36 visual expression of the values that drive and inspire their work. And to learn more about that, you can visit us on our website, and there's a link for that in the description below. Also, if you enjoy conversations like this, we really appreciate you leaving us a rating wherever you listen.

It helps expand our reach and helps us know that you appreciate what we do. So thank you and enjoy the conversation. How's it going, Sun?

Sun Segura [01:47]

Pretty good.

Christian Solorzano [01:49]

We're in your beautiful home here in Chicago.

Sun Segura [01:53]

Yes, we are.

Christian Solorzano [01:55]

How long have you been living here for?

Sun Segura [01:56]

Oh, we've been here since 1996.

Christian Solorzano [01:59]

1996. And this is where Segura Inc. Was like— you guys did a lot of work here in this home. And also T26 also took place here, right? And it's a beautiful space. It feels— every time I come here, it feels like a kind of like a museum.

Sun Segura [02:16]

Oh, thank you.

Christian Solorzano [02:17]

And it's such a beautiful space and it's very well designed.

Sun Segura [02:21]

Yeah, it's a very unique space. And I have to say that we were very fortunate to find this place when we needed one.

Christian Solorzano [02:29]

Yeah. And you've been in Chicago for many years. Can you talk to us about your Migration to Chicago because you're from South Korea.

Sun Segura [02:41]

Yes, I was born and raised in South Korea and the reason I came to Chicago was that when I was a teenager we had a family crisis. My father went bankrupt and my stepbrother At that time he was living in Chicago and he was asking my mother to come and take care of his 3 children and my mom was hesitant but with this family crisis she decided to come and I followed her.

Christian Solorzano [03:25]

Okay. Yeah, and what was your first impression when you like arrived here?

Sun Segura [03:30]

So when I arrived in Chicago, it was late in the evening. I remember being very bright, so I was thinking about the cost of electricity must be very high. Yeah, because it seems like it's, on all night. And compared to streets in Seoul at that time, probably it was a lot darker than here. So that was my first impression.

Christian Solorzano [04:01]

Do you remember like when you came to Chicago, like what part of Chicago you came to or what were some of the first things that you saw?

Sun Segura [04:06]

First, actually, I came a little bit later than my mother and my mother was living in Chicago, but my brother was living in Janesville, Wisconsin with his family. He worked for GM and then he also had a small 2-flat building in Janesville downtown where he had his martial arts studio. He's a judo master.

And first floor he had a restaurant. So but I don't think he did very well with the restaurant because many of his students, after the class, they went downstairs, they ate, and he didn't charge them.

Christian Solorzano [05:03]

Oh yeah. And when you— how old were you when you came here to Chicago?

Sun Segura [05:08]

18.

Christian Solorzano [05:09]

You were 18. And what about pre-Chicago? What was your upbringing like in Korea? What were you into? What were you as a child?

Sun Segura [05:18]

As a child, I wasn't any different than any other children in Korea. We were children who were taught to be very obedient and went to school, played with the friends. I was sent to Learn to play piano, so I did that. I don't think I had any. I can't remember like any exciting moments. Yeah, in my childhood.

Christian Solorzano [05:53]

And then you mentioned that. So today you have an organization named Aha Time, which is focused on values. And you mentioned that as a kid in Korea, values were something that was a part of like your. Your upbringing, right? Like that was something that—

Sun Segura [06:10]

Yeah, I mean the Eastern values and Western values are very different.

Christian Solorzano [06:19]

How so?

Sun Segura [06:19]

Oftentimes many things that are wrong in Eastern values are right in Western values and vice versa.

Christian Solorzano [06:32]

Like, an example would be what?

Sun Segura [06:34]

One example would be the social relationships in Eastern values. They come from Confucianism, and in Confucian teaching, the social relationships are strictly based on hierarchical structure. So it's like in the military system, top to bottom. Very vertical relationships. So whoever is above you have to say yes. Right? If you say no, then they think of you as a— he's a troublemaker. Huh? So anything that your bosses or your parents say, you're supposed to follow them.

Christian Solorzano [07:28]

Were you obedient? Were you a troublemaker?

Sun Segura [07:30]

No, I wasn't. Yeah, I don't— we were very strict. There are many you can't, so you have to follow those rules. So I was a good kid.

Christian Solorzano [07:50]

And what would happen if you broke a rule? Did you ever—

Sun Segura [07:53]

Oh, probably you'll get punished. I remember, but not that often, not that often, but I remember a few times my mother would come after me with a broomstick. And then I'd hide behind my father. Daddy, help me!

Christian Solorzano [08:12]

Yeah. I'm Mexican, and in Mexican families there's also a punishment is like, right, the big thing, right? Yeah. It's— there's like the broom there's a shoe, the belt, the extension cord.

Sun Segura [08:26]

Carlos tells me his case was his mother used the high heels.

Christian Solorzano [08:32]

Yeah, high heels. So talk to us about— so you come to Chicago, you meet Carlos, who the two of you ran Segura T26 for many years. You both met on a blind date. You were both set up by mutual people that the both of you knew, and from my understanding, it was kind of like love at first sight. You guys met, and then within like months, I guess—

Sun Segura [09:02]

2 weeks.

Christian Solorzano [09:02]

2 weeks, you guys were like living together, and like you guys married. Married.

Sun Segura [09:07]

Got engaged first in Montreal, okay, and then got married within a year.

Christian Solorzano [09:11]

So can you talk to us about that love story? I want to hear your part of the story. I've heard Carlos's, but what's yours?

Sun Segura [09:17]

Probably there isn't any different version. Relatively quick, I realized this— he is the man in my life. And then also, I guess, probably maybe our values are similar. Cuban values or Korean values, you meet and you marry. We date with, marriage in mind. And right away, I realized he was the one. And then the rest is history.

Christian Solorzano [09:48]

Yeah. So within 2 weeks, what happened in those 2 weeks? Like you guys met and then 2 weeks you guys were living together?

Sun Segura [09:54]

No, I don't know. Basically we saw each other every day. Yeah, from the day we met we saw, and then probably we haven't been separated ever since. Other than taking, to take your businesses or, short trips here and there. But yeah.

Christian Solorzano [10:10]

Yeah, very cool. So fast forward, the two of you run really successful businesses, client relationships, so much stuff that even to this day, those things that both of you created continue to be Chicago icons, not just in Chicago, but worldwide. I think the influence of Segura Inc.

T26 are felt throughout, and so many people, Myself, who at the, at the time when you guys were creating a lot of that stuff, I was not aware of it because I was still a little kid, but even to this day looking back at a lot of that work, it's still inspiring and it's still like pretty timeless. So that happens and then you start your own thing, you publish a book called Reset, which was about values, and then you create Aha Time.

Can you talk to us, walk us through the book? Did the book come before a Ha Time?

Sun Segura [11:09]

Yes.

Christian Solorzano [11:10]

Okay, talk to us about the book.

Sun Segura [11:12]

The book— I never had any intention of writing a book, but in 2008 we got a project from LG in South Korea, and one of the requirements was that we come in person to present the project, the work we did. So I wasn't quite sure because at that time our studio was very busy and, flying 13 hours just to have a 1-hour meeting seemed a little bit, I don't know, wasteful.

But I was curious about South Korea and I heard many things that it has changed, had changed a lot. And I was curious, so we decided to go, and I was amazed how much Korea has changed. And especially people, especially young people changed a lot. So when I came back, I kept thinking about South Korea because it was completely different country than, when I left.

In 1980. So I start to wondering when a country transforms itself in such a— to such a degree, how do people keep up internally? Because they are the one who created it. So I mean, it's almost a miracle because Korea has 5,000 years of history and most part, we've been very poor. So for them to create number 10th or 11th economy in the world in one generation, I think that's pretty amazing.

So I started to ask questions about, the certain social topics I was curious about. So just I created random topics that I was interested in knowing. How they were before, what I knew, and then how they evolved now. So I interviewed lots of people who lived there and who were familiar with the Korean society and Korean people, and then that was my book.

Christian Solorzano [13:33]

And what'd you discover in having these kind of conversations? What do you think was the thing that drove the change to happen? Was it— what was some of the conversations that you had? What were people saying?

Sun Segura [13:48]

I mean, mainly the Korean values, 2 main values are education and hard work. And, many families, they'll, for example, like mortgage their house to send their children to university. And 90% of high school graduates, they go to university. And because also we've been so poor, people, thought that the education is the only way out of poverty to get a respectable job. And so that's been, I think, Korean people's main how should I say, the belief system that helped Korea to become what it is today.

And then also, I mean, the hard work. Yeah. But then, they— when you— everything has to be in balance. So, with education, putting so much emphasis on education that puts a lot of pressure on younger people. And unfortunately, South Korea is also known for highest suicide level among OECD countries. And also hard work, you can only work so much. So when you don't have that work and life balance, yeah. Father's always working, he's not spending enough time with his children, and also that affects family dynamics.

Christian Solorzano [15:31]

Yeah, I heard that like it's suicide, but also like drinking is also like very common, right?

Sun Segura [15:37]

Yeah. If your bosses hear the blind obedience thing, you gotta say yes to your boss. They ask you, okay, let's go to, drinking after work, and you don't want to go home, but, you say, yes, sir, yes, boss. And a lot of times, you are— you don't want to drink, but you are in a situation that is kind of peer pressure. And I also, in a way, I think they think that these social relationships affect their, directly to their promotions.

So they tend to, go with the flow and then end up drinking a lot.

Christian Solorzano [16:18]

Yeah, so one of the things that I like about your project a Hot Time is that it's about values, and I feel like, being that this is a show about graphic design, I think values show up in everything that we do, whether we think about it or not.

Everything that we do is driven by some kind of like internal value, and graphic design is so much about communication, and it's about communicating values, whether you're intentional about it or not, there's messaging, there's thinking that we're like putting out into the world, and that thinking usually shapes how people see themselves, how they treat others, how they see the world, and so forth.

So with a Hot Time, what are you like— first of all, what is a Hot Time, and what are you hoping to do with it? Why— I feel like Trying to promote values is such a big undertaking, and it's like almost nearly impossible to like make a difference globally. But even sometimes like in a conversation, you can make a difference. So what are you trying to do with this project?

Sun Segura [17:28]

So how I started Our Time was it wasn't like a one major incident that happened and I decided, okay, I'm going to start Aha Time. It's been like a series of small incidents over the years that led me to start Aha Time. And one of those was I was in the car with Carlos. We were sitting at a red stoplight and I see a person, a car in front of us, throwing a piece of garbage out of his car window.

And actually, that wasn't the first time. It was like a third time within like 2 months' time period. And the first time when I saw that, I couldn't believe it.

And then second time, I was kind of getting upset. So this was the third time and I decided that I'm going to do something about it. And I was getting out of the car and Carlos tried to stop me because he didn't know what kind of driver this person was. But he couldn't stop me because I was already out, walking towards the driver's side car window.

And I wasn't yelling or screaming at him, but I put a big smile on my face and I tried to be as polite as possible. And I don't remember word to word what I said, but something like, sir, could you roll down the window? The street is not your garbage can. And I think people really appreciate if you don't do what you just did. And then he seemed a little bit—

Startled and awkward. And then he didn't say anything, but as soon as the light turned green, he just took off. So I'm pretty sure he's not going to do that again.

Christian Solorzano [19:33]

Yeah, there's probably a sense of shame coming from him.

Sun Segura [19:35]

Probably, yeah.

Christian Solorzano [19:37]

So then, so that incident happens, and then all of a sudden you get an idea to create this.

Sun Segura [19:43]

And then, so after that, I just start to observe people's behavior. And I just started questioning and wondering like, how could it be? Why people are this way? And then also around the same time, I realized, or talking to a friend or something, that common sense is not common anymore. When the first time I heard that, I was and realized that I was like almost in shock.

Yeah, and so for many different, incidents happened and just made me realize, wow, I don't know, I need to do something. But it seemed like such basic things, but why aren't we hearing or learning about, these topics? But, when you say values, it's kind of abstract, right?

Christian Solorzano [20:45]

Yeah.

Sun Segura [20:47]

And when I ask questions to people, because to me, values are the most important things. Yeah, it's the values that, shape your feelings, your thoughts, and your actions. And, having like a moral compass that, helps you navigate your life. I mean, what else can be more important?

Christian Solorzano [21:16]

Yeah.

Sun Segura [21:17]

Right? But we don't talk about it, we don't learn about it. And I ask people, where do children learn about values, basic values? And people tell me, well, you're supposed to learn that at home. But then I'm thinking, well, many children, yeah, many parents, they teach their children, values, all the good things. But then a lot of parents also, they are either too busy or they don't know the right values themselves to teach their children. So then where do children learn their necessary values?

Christian Solorzano [21:51]

Yeah.

Sun Segura [21:52]

Probably society. And often the society teaches that Money and status are more important than— more matter, they matter more than character. So the result is a lot of bad things happening in our society. I think it's a result from that.

Christian Solorzano [22:13]

Yeah, I did see a lot of that when I was growing up. A lot of my friends, we grew up with a single mom. And mom was working, so like we were kind of left to figure out things for ourselves. And luckily, I was able to not learn the values that like my other peers were learning, which was— some of them were quite dangerous. And I think there's so much risk associated with not having proper values.

Because it could lead to death, it could lead to like going to jail, or it could lead to doing—

Sun Segura [22:53]

You make a bad decision.

Christian Solorzano [22:54]

You make a bad decision, and sometimes you make a bad decision that like changes your life forever. So I think values are important and I think it's a shame that there's really no good examples in society. Like I think politicians are terrible examples of values and those are usually the loudest voices.

Sun Segura [23:14]

Right. We often hear about values from, right, like you said, the politicians, but usually they say that After when something bad happened.

Christian Solorzano [23:26]

Yeah. Right?

Sun Segura [23:27]

Yeah. So then also I'm thinking if we learned and practiced and talked about these values before these bad things happen, probably we'll see a lot less divisions and chaos that we see nowadays in our society. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [23:47]

So you've talked about critical thinking in the past. About how today with so much— I feel like the world society, there's so much polarization. It's either you're over here or you're over there and you have to pick a side. And I think people seem to be obsessed with identity, like identity politics, where like—

We want to identify as a part of a group because we feel that if we do so, we're more sure of ourselves. And I feel like there's been a lack of critical thinking, specifically I would say like the last 10 years. I've seen everything just kind of degrade. And no one wants to listen to each other. And no one can tolerate each other. No one can tolerate someone else with a difference of opinion because for whatever reason.

So from your point of view, why is critical— like, what's your thoughts on critical thinking and what's something that you see happening today that is like a sign of a lack of critical thinking?

Sun Segura [24:56]

I feel that number one, without common sense, critical thinking is not possible. So common sense is very important. And to do— the reason I think critical thinking is hard for many of us is because it's very easy to sweep up in emotions or group thinking, like ideology politics.

And forget to ask, forget to ask what is true, what is fair, what is left out. And we are very quick to judge right and wrong, black and white, but as, in life, a lot more things are in gray. But we just don't think about them, and whatever we think or what we say is the ultimate truth, or, people tend to make a statement.

Which is a very dangerous mindset. So with, more common sense followed by critical thinking, I think you can be a little bit more open question more things. And one of the reasons for the task for our time is just asking people to have an open space in your heart, be a little bit flexible. And, when you hear something, don't jump onto conclusion. Just ask more questions.

And then when you have some flexibility in your heart, I think you ask more questions basically. Yeah. And I think that's what we need. And then you, if you're challenged about your beliefs, then, instead of getting angry, you can talk about it, we can debate, and, hopefully the result is we have a different perspective. And by having different perspective, that's how we grow as a people.

Christian Solorzano [27:30]

Yeah. And one of the issues that I see is that there's people that, for example, I have friends that are conservative and I have friends that are very liberal, and they're both on the extreme opposite sides, and I consider them to both be really great people. And I often think about how if those 2 groups of people came together, they would actually have a lot in common. If they put their differences aside.

And I think it's a— to me, I feel like everyone wants to belong. That's kind of like the core thing that we all want is like to belong. And I feel like that could be one of the reasons why people just want to be identifying with like a group or they want to pick a side because it gives them a sense of place. And I think that's like a shortcut to— I don't know if that's always like the best thing.

Sun Segura [28:22]

That's a very good point of view you have. That's why I think having your own solid values is very important. So you are not too moved, easily. If you have solid values, your own solid values, you know what is right and wrong. And if you're not sure, you question. And you take time to decide on things instead of jumping on, okay, he said this, I agree, and, that's gonna be my belief.

One of my beliefs from now on. Yeah. So probably again, that's a dangerous mindset. So just think about what are your values, what are important to you in your life, and then go from there. I think that's very important. We don't see that often, especially younger people. Yeah, with the social media, yeah, it's very confusing time.

Christian Solorzano [29:33]

It is very confusing. I find it difficult to be like a young person today growing up and like being exposed to like all of these different things. It's really hard.

Sun Segura [29:46]

Yeah, I feel for them.

Christian Solorzano [29:48]

And also the cool thing about values in my opinion is that they change and they're not like fixed. So today, what are some of your values? Like today on this day?

Sun Segura [30:00]

Yeah, so values are an aesthetic. They evolve like you evolve, as you evolve. And my recent values are 3 things: authenticity, curiosity, and contribution. So authenticity and I always, as a younger person, I was insecure, but I'm sure that wasn't just me. Most of us feel the same way. And I think that you need to live a little bit to feel authentic self, because when, younger age, you feel you don't have enough, you don't know enough, so you carry that insecurity with you.

And but now, I know, or know, when you live a little longer, you realize that as long as you work towards the person you want to be with some solid values, I think you can be authentic self at any age.

Christian Solorzano [31:02]

Yeah. And I think one of the things that I really appreciate about you and Carlos is that you're both very— you guys are always open to speaking with younger people and like sharing your experiences and kind of like using your experiences to help other people like realize whether it's their potential, whether it's like trying to figure something out about themselves. And I feel like there's so many people that have the capacity to give back.

And my question for you is, For people that are listening, like people that are in positions of leadership or people that lead teams like the both of you did for many years, what are some ways that we can start to instill positive values into the— with the people that we're working with? How do you, how do you build a team or how do you create a space where great work could be created?

Sun Segura [32:11]

I mean, not only for designers but for any person at work or at home, I think the communication skill is very important, especially for designers. You think, oh, I got a degree at, good design school, so now I'm all set. But that's not it. You're just beginning, right? And when you start working, you have to sell your work to clients, through presentation. And often, sometimes you have to defend your work.

And you have to handle objections from clients. So I think a communication skill is very important as well as your, creating visual communication pieces.

And then also, I mean, this one is for everyone. I think we need to be resilient. Because, life is hard. With the resiliency, you can deal better, I think, with all your ups and downs in life. Yeah. And when you think of the word resilience, it means strengthening your mindset, right? If you fail at something or you have problems, instead of running away, think of them as opportunities to grow. So, life is full of challenges.

Christian Solorzano [34:02]

Yeah. Can you give us an example of an instance where you were faced with a challenge?

Sun Segura [34:10]

In our case, in our company, we resigned a couple of accounts and they were pretty good, financially good-sized accounts, but we didn't share the same values with the clients, so we resigned and it was very difficult decisions for us at that time, but looking back, I mean, it was the right thing to do.

Christian Solorzano [34:40]

Yeah, so how do you— and then you mentioned storytelling, like communication being something really important. Which is totally true because we're in the business of communication, right? That's what we do. And I think what I sometimes see with my students, for example, like younger people, is that communication is one of the biggest challenges because we feel like if they're critiquing the work, they're critiquing us, right? And it's sometimes very hard to separate the work from us.

So what's your— how do you become a storyteller? How do you— I know you've mentioned Toastmasters as being something that you recommend.

Sun Segura [35:21]

Yes, I'm a huge fan of Toastmasters. I highly recommend all designers, yeah, go to Toastmasters and practice public speaking and, we all heard that public speaking is number one fear people have. And yeah, I went to Toastmasters. It was fantastic. I started when I barely spoke English. And I learned so much, but the confidence building is, it's so great. And then also I made a lot of good friends there. I even studied the book club for 10 years with them.

And yeah, I can— I give a huge credit to Toastmasters. If it wasn't for Toastmasters, probably I wasn't able to do a lot of things that I did.

Christian Solorzano [36:21]

Yeah. So how do you overcome the fear of public speaking?

Sun Segura [36:25]

Toastmasters.

Christian Solorzano [36:26]

Yeah, but well, all right, so like from what you've learned in Toastmasters, you're giving a presentation, giving a talk, like what's like something you learned about it?

Sun Segura [36:36]

Okay, yeah, I mean, okay, how should I say, it's kind of intangible. You gotta practice. In my case, I thought of it as a school. I personally, I didn't want to go, right? It's uncomfortable. You have to stand in front of people, and then you have to practice your speech before you give it. And, it's time-consuming, but I knew it is something that I had to do. So I just, I didn't want to go, but I just put myself—

In that— so in the situation where I felt uncomfortable. So when you do that, you continue to, do that. You're uncomfortable, it's a challenge, right?

Christian Solorzano [37:34]

Yeah.

Sun Segura [37:34]

So, but you go there, you sit there, you listen to other people's speeches also, which means you become better listener. So there are so many benefits, so many. So I think practice is everything, and even though you don't feel like doing it, or you're afraid of it, don't try to avoid it. Just, head on.

Head on, go for it. And then one day, without like realizing it, you feel, oh, I feel better about doing this. Yeah, that's how, I'm a huge believer of, or, practitioner of self-improvement.

So even though like you want to you are stressed out. For my case, I was very stressed out, running 3 different businesses and all that stuff. So in the evening, I always try to take some kind of classes, language classes or Toastmasters or, tennis, or just do something different. And not only that helps with you, mentally, I mean, physically.

Christian Solorzano [38:45]

Physically.

Sun Segura [38:47]

But it just also you learn things at the same time. Yeah, so yeah, while taking care of your stress, also you learn something. Multitasking. Yeah, no worries.

Christian Solorzano [38:57]

And also, if you give a presentation, if you do like nothing bad is going to happen, even if you do like the worst possible thing, like you will be fine. And that's something I always tell people. It's like, you will, it'll be done. Like you'll do it, you'll be done, and then like you'll just don't think too much about it. I heard that people would prefer to get electrocuted than to do public speaking. Yeah, scary.

Like they'd rather receive pain than like to put themselves out there.

Sun Segura [39:30]

Okay, I haven't heard that one.

Christian Solorzano [39:31]

Yeah, but I think it could, I think it could be fun. I used to be afraid as well, and sometimes I still am. Yeah, but you just like realize that I'll be done in like 15 minutes.

Sun Segura [39:41]

Yeah, but also not only for work but also your personal relationships, communication is so important in life just in general. You constantly run into conflicts with people, your husband, your friends, you got to explain yourself, you got to question other people. Why did this happen? Why did you do it? What's the reasons? I mean, you got to be able to explain things, you got to articulate. And they can take you very far when you know how to communicate.

Christian Solorzano [40:18]

Yeah, and there's like on the opposite side of communicating, there's like listening. And I think listening is also like a big part of like what we're talking about values. Very important is like we need to be able to listen. And I think sometimes when someone is talking, you're already thinking about like what you're going to say and like you're not even listening. You don't care. Yeah.

So like patience, listening, and so forth. So what's the latest with a Hot Time? Because I know that you've been recording these like little snippets where you've been interviewing people and asking them to explain like what their values are and then also what values they're working on. So I want to ask you, what are values that you're working on right now?

Sun Segura [41:00]

I'm also working on patience too. I think these days everybody's just impatient. We want results like fast, but things take time. And we, while we're waiting, we just continue to do things that you can do every day, little by little. And eventually, hopefully, we'll all get there. And another thing I'm working on is that Korean people are in general very efficient. They work hard and they want things done right first time.

And so when I see somebody working like inefficiently, like it kind of drives me mad. Oh, why is he doing that way? It could be so much easier if you do it the other way. So when I see that, I get anxious myself and I need to just take it easy. And yeah, everybody does things differently, so I need to, keep reminding myself. Yeah. That's funny.

Christian Solorzano [42:10]

So with patience, I feel like we've— another thing that like society is conditioning us to is that everything needs to be fast. Like even you order something online and if it's not 24-hour delivery, then you're just Oh, it's going to take forever. And that's like impatience. And even I was doing something on the computer yesterday with a friend, and it was taking too long. And she was kind of like complaining, oh, this is taking forever. And it was like 2 minutes.

So I feel like there's so many things that we're being conditioned to like not be patient and also and values, and there's just so many, so many things that are working against, for example, boredom. None of us want to be bored anymore, whereas I remember when I was a kid, sometimes you would have the whole day to just be out, just lay on the grass and look at the sky. We don't do that anymore.

Sun Segura [43:12]

Yeah, no, we don't do that. So without patience, it's hard to Live in the moment. And I think a lot of people also probably agree with me that, we're always thinking about, the future or thinking about the past, and we don't really, stay in the moment. Which means that, we miss out a lot.

Christian Solorzano [43:39]

Do you tend to be in the future or in the past?

Sun Segura [43:43]

Both. Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [43:46]

Can you talk to me about that? Are you a nostalgic person? Do you think about the past? Are you sentimental?

Sun Segura [43:52]

Not necessarily that way. When I'm thinking about the past, it's mostly about things that I made a mistake. It's already done. I know in my head that there's absolutely nothing you can do.

Oh, I should have said this, or I should have done that, or, and so those are the things, in the past. And then for the— when I think about the future, I mean, mostly they're unknown, right? You have no control. So accepting the things that you cannot control, you shouldn't think about that. Instead of spend that energy, in the moment. Now enjoy what you're doing, appreciate what you have, and that's all we can do. But we just— our mind goes either, way back or way forward.

Christian Solorzano [44:57]

Yeah. And for you, what are some simple pleasures? Like when you're in the moment, what are the things that you enjoy doing? Like simple stuff.

Sun Segura [45:06]

Simple stuff, play pickleball. Okay. Read, play piano. I— most of my friends, 80% of our friends moved away from Chicago, so I try to keep in touch with them. Relationships are very important. So some people are good at initiating or reaching out, and some people are not. So if you have good friends, I think it's very important that you reach out and have regular conversations. What else do I do?

Christian Solorzano [45:45]

What do you like to talk about with your friends? What are conversations that—

Sun Segura [45:48]

Conversations?

Christian Solorzano [45:49]

Yeah.

Sun Segura [45:51]

What do we talk about? I mean, girl stuff.

Christian Solorzano [45:57]

Okay, like makeup?

Sun Segura [45:58]

No, I'm too old for that. Oh, but I mean, with the aging, you gotta, you got to talk about, okay, what do you use for your necklines? And then normally, probably just anything that helps you with the daily, stuff.

Christian Solorzano [46:18]

Like efficiency?

Sun Segura [46:19]

Yeah, efficiency. Like what helps with this problem, that problem, any brands.

Christian Solorzano [46:27]

And do you have any guilty pleasures? What are some things that you—

Sun Segura [46:31]

Please check out.

Christian Solorzano [46:33]

When you turn your values off, what are you wearing?

Sun Segura [46:36]

Yeah, I go to Zara. Yeah, I'm not— I don't know why, but I'm not interested in like big brand names, but I like fashion, but simpler clothes. But I think Zara offers, such a variety and there's such a good price that I can't say no. But I don't throw them away like, what do you call it?

Christian Solorzano [47:09]

Like fast fashion?

Sun Segura [47:11]

Fast fashion, yeah. I don't do that. I save everything I buy. And I try to buy styles that are timeless, not very trendy. So yeah, I have a big closet so I can Okay, what else? You know what, I really don't have— yeah, I'm a good girl.

Christian Solorzano [47:31]

So you mentioned playing the piano. Is there anything else creative that we don't know about?

Sun Segura [47:43]

Creative? I always thought I not a creative person, but then when I was writing the book, it was very interesting to experience the creative process because you are subconsciously continually thinking about, things about your book, right? Then the lines just come to you or certain ideas just come to you when you're not thinking. The problem is you have to write them down immediately when the thoughts, come to you. Otherwise they just disappear. So that happened to me many times, while I was writing the book.

And I thought, oh, this is how creative people work. So that was very interesting.

Christian Solorzano [48:40]

Would you ever write another book?

Sun Segura [48:42]

No.

Christian Solorzano [48:42]

Why?

Sun Segura [48:43]

Because it wasn't easy.

Christian Solorzano [48:45]

I think you should write another book because the, the— that book came out— what year was it when it came out?

Sun Segura [48:52]

2017.

Christian Solorzano [48:53]

2017. Yeah. Okay. It would be nice to see like another response to values from you.

Sun Segura [49:02]

I don't know. Let's see. Let's see what happens. But I'm re-editing the book now, so the new version will probably come out end of this year or beginning of next year, and then I'm trying to promote it more. I wasn't writing the book to make money or anything. I mean, nobody does it anyway, but I just felt like writing it at the time just out of curiosity. But this time I might, talk about a little more.

Christian Solorzano [49:37]

Okay, I like that. So you're saying that might be something that comes out this year?

Sun Segura [49:41]

Yeah.

Christian Solorzano [49:42]

Okay, very nice. So it's something we'll look forward to. And then the other thing I wanted to touch on is we've talked about doing a collaboration between the Chicago Graphic Design Club and Aha Time because, like I mentioned in the beginning, there's so much— there's such an overlap between what we do as designers and also our values.

And a conversation that I often hear about from other designers is that we all have this sense of unhappiness sometimes with the work that we're doing, whether it's working with certain clients or just working in a certain way. And I think it would be nice to give people an opportunity, like a space to response to values somehow. Whether it's through like a printed piece or a poster, like something to just begin the conversation.

Because people respond to art and they're more likely to respond to art as opposed to like, something else, like hearing a politician talk about it or someone on social media. Yeah, so that's something that people can look forward to that you and I are going to be working on in the next few weeks. So that'll be fun.

Sun Segura [51:03]

Very excited about that. And you as a designer, you have a, great power because you're trained to create messages with text, with visuals to influence people's buying habits. People's thoughts. I mean, just imagine how huge power you have.

Christian Solorzano [51:27]

So in the mind of Sun, what does the perfect world look like?

Sun Segura [51:32]

Less angry people. More consideration for others. Less selfishness. Less crime, less mental illness. Basically all the bad things happening, just less. Yeah, less. Because with human nature, we're never going to have a perfect world. But if we can somehow decrease the number of bad things happening in our world, that'd be fantastic.

Christian Solorzano [52:10]

And I think, I mean, it's impossible to have that world.

Sun Segura [52:14]

One more thing, more common sense.

Christian Solorzano [52:16]

More common sense.

Sun Segura [52:16]

So we can Right, we can do more critical thinking.

Christian Solorzano [52:19]

Yes, critical thinking is important, and I think obviously that's not something that we'll probably see in our lifetime or ever, but I think we can— like, conversations like this, I think, begin the conversation for other people to just start thinking about this stuff. Absolutely.

Sun Segura [52:38]

Yeah, a lot of times these values value topics are not on our radar because they are kind of abstract, so they don't— people don't think about it. And I think that's a problem. Once you start thinking about what are your values, what are important in your life, and then you, try to, live with your values and then you make better decisions. And you'll be a lot happier.

Christian Solorzano [53:17]

Yeah. And also I think values are not about— I think what I see sometimes in society, like on social media for example, or with people that I meet, is that they will use their values to make themselves seem like they're better than other people. And it's like virtue signaling, for example.

And I think there is a wrong way to use values, and that's to pretend like you're better than other people. And I think it's— I just want to make it clear that that's not what you and I are talking about. We're not talking— we're not talking about like, have values and go be better than other people and like just put other people down.

Because I do see, I mean, politicians are like any political party. They're always shouting their values of like, this is the right thing and this is the other right thing, right? Where their values almost—

Sun Segura [54:17]

And they do all the wrong things. Exactly.

Christian Solorzano [54:19]

And then the values become a part of their identity that they use to like signal that they're superior than other people. Yeah. So I think humility is very important in this kind of conversation.

Sun Segura [54:34]

Yeah, absolutely. And I came across a quote this morning saying that— hold on a minute, let me try to remember. I thought it was a very timely quote. Nearly all People can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. And it was said by Abraham Lincoln. Isn't that timely?

Christian Solorzano [55:18]

That is very timely. Yeah, very nice. So we're almost at time, but I just want to mention that you're very open to people coming to you to talk with you, to learn from you, for you to listen to them. So what's your call to action for the listeners? I would say, definitely follow your Instagram accounts.

Sun Segura [55:45]

Yeah, 아하 time org.

Christian Solorzano [55:46]

Yep, visit your websites. And what's a way for people to get involved and to like, participate?

Sun Segura [55:53]

Yeah, I would love it. I think the first initiative with the Chicago Graphic Design Club, and we can, create some tangible pieces where we can put it in front of people, and hopefully they will turn into bigger projects and more people will get involved. Yeah, contact me anytime. I would love it to hear from you. I know a lot of people, they agree with, what we're doing.

And some people, it's very interesting though, the reactions. Some people think like, yes, we need this. And some people like, what? So I think our goal is to kind of spark a wake-up call. And, we need these value topics to be talked about on a daily basis and put it in the forefront of our daily lives. And, values change our behaviors. That's, I mean, that's the best way to change, for, if we do something bad. So we need it, like we are desperate for it.

And, since we are lacking a number of heroes these days, I, love to— I don't know, I don't know who that new hero is yet, but, I hope someone who can inspire us and, unite us as a leader. I'm just waiting for that person. I mean, we are all waiting for that person. Yeah, that'll be very exciting. But yeah, contact me through website, ahathyme.org, and let's change the world. Let's make the world a better place.

And then also, it's not for certain groups, or it is for young and old and, rich or poor. We all need to work on our values. We need to reprioritize and reset our values, and we all need it. So help us Do that.

Christian Solorzano [58:07]

Yeah, I think you need to create a hot time clock. Yeah, where it's always a hot time.

Sun Segura [58:14]

Good idea.

Christian Solorzano [58:17]

There's an app that I have called WeCroak, and it sends you daily reminders that you're gonna die. Oh, and the purpose behind it is that it wants you to—

Sun Segura [58:29]

Time is running out.

Christian Solorzano [58:30]

Yeah, like time's running out, like take life serious. And I think there, to me, there's an urgency that is associated with your project where it's like, it's not about doing it when it's convenient. It's not about doing it later. It's about like doing it now. Now is the time. And you don't need to start big. It could start by listening or by just being open-minded or by like hearing someone that you normally wouldn't hear? So there's opportunities all around to start practicing.

Sun Segura [59:01]

And then also, I was watching your podcast with another guest that at the end you said something like motivating or understanding your ability to participate and collaborate for the— and advocate. For the changes that you want to see in the world, and you can do that. So you have the skills, so Please use them.

Christian Solorzano [59:31]

Yeah, it's so easy to point fingers. And it's like, well, what am I doing?

Sun Segura [59:36]

Yes. Yes.

Christian Solorzano [59:37]

So cool. Well, thank you so much, Sun. It was great chatting with you. I always learn a lot from you, and I always appreciate you welcoming people into your home and just being a great person to know.

Sun Segura [59:50]

Oh, thank you so much.

Christian Solorzano [59:51]

Thank you.

Sun Segura [59:51]

Thanks for the opportunity. Yes.

Christian Solorzano [59:54]

And everyone listening, definitely I'll include all the links in the description for this episode. So that you can go check them out. And by the time this episode goes out, we should have on our website a call for something to do with Hot Time.

Sun Segura [60:11]

Cool. Perfect. Awesome.

Christian Solorzano [60:12]

All right. Thank you so much for sticking around till the end. If you enjoy conversations like this, consider leaving a rating wherever you listen. Thank you. And we'll talk to you soon.

Sun Segura [60:25]

Goodbye.